50 Swedish Homebuyers Cheated For Millions In Thailand

[zorro1]

Thai Visa is the BEST! A news clipping about anything always generates controversy. The have's, the have not's and the "How could anyone fall for that?" crowd who operate with great hindsight and pretentiousness. Who hasn't fell for a great sales pitch at one time in their life? Many of these victims were not the "get something for nothing" groups we talk so much about. They happened to be too trusting this time and human nature reigned supreme.

To the posters who think they are above it all, superior in all ways to the common man, please keep it to yourself. I too am guilty to whipping out a simplistic post, usually humorously (at least to me) on serious subjects where someone doesn't totally agree with me. But tell me what good it does to poke fun at these 50 people and tell them for all intents and purposes they are the stupidest people who ever walked this earth? Sitting in your thatched villas on the throne in that special room, you just have to remember, life for others may be very different from yours. We do not have the blessing of your intellect or powers of your hindsight that makes your life so wonderful.

Round of applause!!!!

Witty, funny and ooohhhh so true!

[KireB]

To the posters who think they are above it all, superior in all ways to the common man, please keep it to yourself. I too am guilty to whipping out a simplistic post, usually humorously (at least to me) on serious subjects where someone doesn't totally agree with me. But tell me what good it does to poke fun at these 50 people and tell them for all intents and purposes they are the stupidest people who ever walked this earth? Sitting in your thatched villas on the throne in that special room, you just have to remember, life for others may be very different from yours. We do not have the blessing of your intellect or powers of your hindsight that makes your life so wonderful.

Well put! Arrogance comes before ones fall!

[farang prince]

These people, disabled and all, have probably saved for their entire lives to get a nice retirement and you, and some other posters, claim that they deserve what they get. It's not just these buyers who need their heads checked. Really, why are some people so bitter?

I wouldn't worry too much about these "disabled" Swedes...from what I hear, you can stub your toe on the job over there and claim 90% disability and spend the rest of your days on a beach somewhere courtesy of your fellow Swedish taxpayers.

And is this statistic based on your usual "impeccable sources" Jonnie? How about your "actual" sources?

[ianh68h]

thaigene2 wrote:

that after several years of thinking (in my own case very nearly buying) that reflection is require

Blimey thaigene, every time i look on here there's you, and you're kind, bleating on about property.

Ok, so you weren't in a position to buy your own property, others are not your position and feel comfortable buying and have made good money.

Try not to be so bitter, get out and enjoy your life, you're in Thailand for gawds sake.

Bottom line is those of us who have invested, have made money and are content with our situation. There were some hassles along the way with our developer but they got sorted out without any spilt milk.

I'm outa here its depressing me, I'll leave you to drown in your own bile,

cheers mate,

CS

Im with you, those two guys are depressing, Im out of here

And I'm with both of you. The amount of pure bitterness and hatred on here really often dumbfounds me. I really do wonder why they are in Thailand. And if they are not, why do have to keep bashing Thailand on an internet even after they've already left the country? What made them so incredily bitter and hateful? Was it really Thailand or they themselves? Hmmm.

Anyway, I'm out of here too!

Is there no happy medium here? Some people are naturally cautious (like me) but that does not mean they are full of bile or incapable of having fun. I have retired to Thailand and fully intend to stay here. However, I have no intention of investing in anything Thai, apart from owning a Thai bank account. Why should I? I already had everything sorted out in the UK before I came here. (I am a retired teacher, by the way, so don't have money to burn and am neither am I out to make a fast buck).

I am helping pay for my Thai wife's mortgage and am happy that she will be the outright owner of our house. If we move from Bangkok when she retires she can sell her house and buy a new one for less in the North. If she doesn't want to do that we can rent somewhere and I will pay the rent just as I am paying the mortgage now.

You've got to have the basics sorted out on a worry free basis before you can relax and enjoy Thailand. That's my opinion and thanks to Scott for starting this thread.

[twix38]

Sad fact is that the playing field is not level and not intended to be.

When the corruption and ability to corrupt comes from the top down there is little to be done.

The fact that foreigners cannot own land means that a whole web of temptation to swindle and rob foreigners exists where otherwise it would not.

Buyer beware is even more relevant in Thailand than usual.

It's like a sposnsored wealth transfer scheme from foreigners to Thai's if they choose to access it and play the averages that most will get away with it as the governmant has made it ilegal for foreigners to own land. Thus work arounds have been devised (company scheme, 30 year leases on property, etc).

Fundamentaly it's the government's plan as they implement the law which facilitates the scam and then threaten to enforce or not as whims take them or amend etc.

Just on principle I have bought a small condo in a foreig name and will never invest more in Thailand than I need.

Dual pricing should give a clue to the playing field.

[ericjt]

There are still relatively safe ways to buy or lease property in Thailand, but I don't see anything about these 50 buyers talking with a local attorney before they handed over their money. Does anyone have any information about that?

[ThNiner]

Is there no happy medium here? Some people are naturally cautious (like me) but that does not mean they are full of bile or incapable of having fun. I have retired to Thailand and fully intend to stay here. However, I have no intention of investing in anything Thai, apart from owning a Thai bank account. Why should I? I already had everything sorted out in the UK before I came here. (I am a retired teacher, by the way, so don't have money to burn and am neither am I out to make a fast buck).

I am helping pay for my Thai wife's mortgage and am happy that she will be the outright owner of our house. If we move from Bangkok when she retires she can sell her house and buy a new one for less in the North. If she doesn't want to do that we can rent somewhere and I will pay the rent just as I am paying the mortgage now.

You've got to have the basics sorted out on a worry free basis before you can relax and enjoy Thailand. That's my opinion and thanks to Scott for starting this thread.

I was specifically talking about Scott and Thaigene2. Have you found anything they've said about Thailand in the middle ground?

[MaiChai]

Unfortunately people come to Thailand and think they have the same laws and protection that they have at home. They have no idea about the corruption that goes on here. Embassy's should give advice and warn their national about the problems of property ownership here.

My lawyer phoned a senior friend in the Land Dept, who said the reason foreigners cannot own land is because land is cheap here and foreigners would buy up all the land and Thailand would loose control. I was surprised at this; it would be quite simple to limit the amount of land foreigners can own; most people only want to own the land their house sits on? You could limit foreigners to 3 rai of land; that would give enough land for several house (beach/city/country), country could be a small farmstead for you to be self sufficient? Thailand has alot of land! This rule about land is ridiculous, few other countries have it or has such a paranoia about foreigners.

I even asked if I could put land in my daughter name; they guy said I would have to show the money has come from a Thai, and thus it needs to come from the mother. Thus if you want to divorce your wife and set up an alternative home for your Thai kids, your shafted and can only do this via renting!

Everything is against you; the Thai gets the land after they have got as much as they can out of you; that is how the system is setup. Thus better rent and keep your capital in the bank; you never know Vietnam or Cambodia may be a better bet in the future?

[himachal]

There is one born every day, 50 in this case.......

I guess Thavisa needs to reach out to the Swedish people in Thailand.

There's one bjorn every minute!

a modicum of research into Phuket's recent history will reveal it's been riddled with dodgy land deals, incursion into forest land, illegal building on hillsides, and so on. Anyone buying property there must be either very brave or very foolish (and quite rich too).

[Gravelrash]

Unfortunately people come to Thailand and think they have the same laws and protection that they have at home. They have no idea about the corruption that goes on here. Embassy's should give advice and warn their national about the problems of property ownership here.

My lawyer phoned a senior friend in the Land Dept, who said the reason foreigners cannot own land is because land is cheap here and foreigners would buy up all the land and Thailand would loose control. I was surprised at this; it would be quite simple to limit the amount of land foreigners can own; most people only want to own the land their house sits on? You could limit foreigners to 3 rai of land; that would give enough land for several house (beach/city/country), country could be a small farmstead for you to be self sufficient? Thailand has alot of land! This rule about land is ridiculous, few other countries have it or has such a paranoia about foreigners.

I even asked if I could put land in my daughter name; they guy said I would have to show the money has come from a Thai, and thus it needs to come from the mother. Thus if you want to divorce your wife and set up an alternative home for your Thai kids, your shafted and can only do this via renting!

Everything is against you; the Thai gets the land after they have got as much as they can out of you; that is how the system is setup. Thus better rent and keep your capital in the bank; you never know Vietnam or Cambodia may be a better bet in the future?

I am buying a house in my daughters name next month. Only restriction is that for all intensive purposes can't be sold until she is 18. I am divorced and have sole custody. Not sure who provided you that information. I have no intention of selling it anyway, it is for her after I croak it.

[LaoPo]

These people, disabled and all, have probably saved for their entire lives to get a nice retirement and you, and some other posters, claim that they deserve what they get. It's not just these buyers who need their heads checked. Really, why are some people so bitter?

I wouldn't worry too much about these "disabled" Swedes...from what I hear, you can stub your toe on the job over there and claim 90% disability and spend the rest of your days on a beach somewhere courtesy of your fellow Swedish taxpayers.

90% disability....?

That's not correct; if one looks in the mirror in the morning and feels that he/she looks horrible, all that's needed is 1 phonecall to the social security people and they'll send a monthly check the rest of your miserable life for a good 100% disability.

That's why nobody works in Sweden.

Ikea, Ericsson, Volvo, Saab, H & M and the like are manned by aliens.

LaoPo

[Gravelrash]

To buy or not to buy should be an individual decision. I know one guy who has accumulated tens of millions over the last few years buying and selling and that includes the more dangerous buying off the plan. I have made about 700k over the last 3 months and anticipate another 3 million before the end of the year. If something else pans out then much more.

Also know people that make nothing or lose money. Houses are a waste of time as hard to sell, condos are ok if a property of interest to foreigners. Cheap Thai condos are not in the mix as often dumps and hard to sell. But there is the risk you buy the wrong one, as the story above shows there are always plenty who get suckered into grand promises. With existing property it is there already so where the risk except buying too high?

So many here advise never buy a condo and that is safe advice, however I would suggest that the risk in property is far lower than most businesses. Buy if you wish to then do and don't if you are worried, but make your own decision based on research. There is no no-risk way to make a good return.

[Snowbirds]

Hi George,

This was a large amount of money and involved with cheating general public. Is there any law or any criminal charged that could be filed to any person or persons involved? I personally would not buy from my fellow country person becuase he or she seemed to be a trust worthy. Howver, I may consider buying a condo from a well known public company, for an example: Sansiri company that had proven multiple projects built for years in Hua Hin area. cheers

[thaigene2]

Sticks and stones - If you're the potential buyer, I'm not warning you away from Thailand. Not at all.

It's a beautiful place with really nice people - I'd much prefer it over Spain/Portugal. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO B U Y I N G -- read IN FOLKS. It's NOT AT ALL THE SAME. I'm married to a Thai and have lived here for years - as have others warning you about buying here. The rest is up to you. R E A D the forum search pages or just read our own posts if that's easier..

[thaigene2]

We seriously piss off the property sales community here with the above type of postings. So why do it? To make a dent - to get Thailand to recognize that it's in their own best interests to make it easier - not harder - for us not "JUST" to buy here but also to "LIVE" here!

[chrislarsson]

I'm too lazy too search all the forum threads. I have read all the posts on this thread though and not become any wiser.

If I buy an existing condominum in Bangkok from a company of good reputation.

What exaxtly are the risks I'm exposing myself to?

It would also be good if any information about this can be backed up with hard facts. And if the emotional garbage can be cut out it would be great.

[wintermute]

To buy or not to buy should be an individual decision. I know one guy who has accumulated tens of millions over the last few years buying and selling and that includes the more dangerous buying off the plan. I have made about 700k over the last 3 months and anticipate another 3 million before the end of the year. If something else pans out then much more.

Also know people that make nothing or lose money. Houses are a waste of time as hard to sell, condos are ok if a property of interest to foreigners. Cheap Thai condos are not in the mix as often dumps and hard to sell. But there is the risk you buy the wrong one, as the story above shows there are always plenty who get suckered into grand promises. With existing property it is there already so where the risk except buying too high?

So many here advise never buy a condo and that is safe advice, however I would suggest that the risk in property is far lower than most businesses. Buy if you wish to then do and don't if you are worried, but make your own decision based on research. There is no no-risk way to make a good return.

The value of investment is the transparency of the information that allows you to make an informed decision. It's not a good investment if the figures aren't clear and if there's really no rule of law to protect you in the event of a worst case scenario. One good way to judge a real estate investment is to compare the cost of rental versus the cost of purchase. Does it make sense to purchase outright in Bangkok? In most cases..not really unless you're a speculator and that's a different ballgame because you're playing a game of musical chairs and whoever gets stuck with the vastly over inflated bubble property at the end loses. I'd rather rent at $1000 a month for 4 years and waste a potential $48,000 on a decent place than to spend $200,000-300,000 to buy the same place with little or no assurance of resale value or legal ownership. I sleep better at night.

There are several people on this forum that speculate in Thai real estate and I can understand why they get so annoyed at the naysayers. I would be too if people kept scaring off the suckers..I mean.. potential customers for their property.

[TAWP]

These people, disabled and all, have probably saved for their entire lives to get a nice retirement and you, and some other posters, claim that they deserve what they get. It's not just these buyers who need their heads checked. Really, why are some people so bitter?

I wouldn't worry too much about these "disabled" Swedes...from what I hear, you can stub your toe on the job over there and claim 90% disability and spend the rest of your days on a beach somewhere courtesy of your fellow Swedish taxpayers.

And is this statistic based on your usual "impeccable sources" Jonnie? How about your "actual" sources?

As a Swede I have to admit he has a point.

I have a friend that was labeled 'burned out due to stress', 7 years ago, and monthly recieves in SEK what is equal to 92.5K Baht.

[jonniebkk]

I wouldn't worry too much about these "disabled" Swedes...from what I hear, you can stub your toe on the job over there and claim 90% disability and spend the rest of your days on a beach somewhere courtesy of your fellow Swedish taxpayers.

And is this statistic based on your usual "impeccable sources" Jonnie? How about your "actual" sources?

As a Swede I have to admit he has a point.

I have a friend that was labeled 'burned out due to stress', 7 years ago, and monthly recieves in SEK what is equal to 92.5K Baht.

I may have gilded the lily just a tad to make a point but for many years, it was a well known, and well used, scam in the Nordic countries, with their over the top social welfare schemes, to claim workplace disabilities for the most minor of physical and mental (stress) ailments...and then retire at almost full pay to some warmer tropical clime. I mean, if you were "depressed," the authorities would pay to have you sent off to some health spa in Europe for a week of therapy (basically a vacation at taxpayers expense). Because of rampant abuse of the system, it is my understanding the some reforms have taken place over the years but the fact remains, it is still a very generous system.

I have met some of these "disabled" Nordic folks in Pattaya (usually at the beach chair next to mine) who told me there were on work disability from some ailment or other and living in Thailand...and then after a little while they usually get-up on their own accord and off they go.

[TAWP]

You would be amazed how much better people become from spending some time in the sun.

With the downside that if they ever went home they would be depressed again...

Heck, having vacation on other peoples money sure can make anyone happier.

[Bochum]

thaigene2 wrote:

that after several years of thinking (in my own case very nearly buying) that reflection is require

Blimey thaigene, every time i look on here there's you, and you're kind, bleating on about property.

Ok, so you weren't in a position to buy your own property, others are not your position and feel comfortable buying and have made good money.

Try not to be so bitter, get out and enjoy your life, you're in Thailand for gawds sake.

Bottom line is those of us who have invested, have made money and are content with our situation. There were some hassles along the way with our developer but they got sorted out without any spilt milk.

I'm outa here its depressing me, I'll leave you to drown in your own bile,

cheers mate,

CS

Be carefull on advice from this guy. He is a small developer in Hua Hin, gets banned and comes back with a different name. English guy with a chip on his shoulder, chip is envy.

Get a life Paul

Edited November 16, 2008 by Bochum

[Gary A]

I do know one Swede who is living on disability here in Thailand. He is a very fit young man, about 35 years old. He injured his shoulder in an industrial accident. His hobbies here are cycling, weight lifting and playing tennis.

That's neither here nor there, just a comment. Most western people are ignorant of the laws or lack of laws here in Thailand. They listen to and trust a con man who happens to a fellow countryman. In their country they are protected from con men and they expect to be protected here too. Unfortunately that isn't the case. The proper description of these people is naive, not stupid.