Fertilser / Peat From Wood Chips

[scotbeve]

To those of you who are fed up seeing the poor farmers getting ripped off buy the major chemical companies, tired of seeing good green small trees and shrubs being burnt (re:pollution in Chiang Mai, etc.), AND those of you who are interested helping the organic movement... I'm looking into buying one or 2 chippers soon from either the US or Oz and advertise this service at a fair cost to both parties involved, to go around to collection sites in any interested Tambon (in cooperation with the TAO) and make wood chips for use of their farms and gardens. Perhaps if this takes off, to expand to a mixture of compost and wood chips to sell...

Any and all input would be appreciated.

[meandwi]

It is a great idea. Not for fertilizer, but for the compost soil. And to reduce the burning of vegitation that pollutes the air all the time! If you have the land to store thousands of tons of chipped material, time to allow it to heat up and break down, after a year or so you will have the best soil around.

good luck

meandwi

[ozzydom]

To those of you who are fed up seeing the poor farmers getting ripped off buy the major chemical companies, tired of seeing good green small trees and shrubs being burnt (re:pollution in Chiang Mai, etc.), AND those of you who are interested helping the organic movement... I'm looking into buying one or 2 chippers soon from either the US or Oz and advertise this service at a fair cost to both parties involved, to go around to collection sites in any interested Tambon (in cooperation with the TAO) and make wood chips for use of their farms and gardens. Perhaps if this takes off, to expand to a mixture of compost and wood chips to sell...

Any and all input would be appreciated.

Point 1 ,is that you would need a mulcher,not a chipper.Chips are only used in the application you are referring to as decorative ground cover and moisture retention,chips take many years to break down.

Point 2 is that mulch (compost) is not a replacement for fertilizer, it is great for improving soil structure but contains little in the way of elements useful to plants,in fact unless it is completely finished its composting process (gone cold) it will remove Nitrogen from the soil which results in a N deficiency.

Material would be a problem to source as mulchers will only handle solids up to about 1 inch diam and Thais use anything bigger than this for making charcoal.

If you are referring to rice refuse ,the 30-40% of stalk that is left in the paddy is still connected to the root system so not available (unless you pay for it) and what is left after threshing is used as cattle food (and getting expensive).

You can buy small mulchers locally for about 50k, but to purchase a chipper with say a 4 inch capacity you are talking many millions of baht, plus the upkeep is horrendously expensive as the blades require specialist sharpening equipment.

Making compost is not just a matter of throwing lots of debris in a heap and presto.

It needs other matter such as vegetable and animal matter ,moisture and regular turning (aerating) ,lime to adjust the PH, depending on the material you are trying to compost even Nitrogen in the form of Urea or animal or bird poo as the micro-organisms need heaps of N to work and multiply.

Its a noble idea scotbeve ,but one which IMHO Thailand is not ready for,

[scotbeve]

Meandwi,

Something like that... But I was thinking that each Tambon could have a storage area for the peat / fertiliser... More like a community-type process.

[scotbeve]

To those of you who are fed up seeing the poor farmers getting ripped off buy the major chemical companies, tired of seeing good green small trees and shrubs being burnt (re:pollution in Chiang Mai, etc.), AND those of you who are interested helping the organic movement... I'm looking into buying one or 2 chippers soon from either the US or Oz and advertise this service at a fair cost to both parties involved, to go around to collection sites in any interested Tambon (in cooperation with the TAO) and make wood chips for use of their farms and gardens. Perhaps if this takes off, to expand to a mixture of compost and wood chips to sell...

Any and all input would be appreciated.

Point 1 ,is that you would need a mulcher,not a chipper.Chips are only used in the application you are referring to as decorative ground cover and moisture retention,chips take many years to break down.

Point 2 is that mulch (compost) is not a replacement for fertilizer, it is great for improving soil structure but contains little in the way of elements useful to plants,in fact unless it is completely finished its composting process (gone cold) it will remove Nitrogen from the soil which results in a N deficiency.

Material would be a problem to source as mulchers will only handle solids up to about 1 inch diam and Thais use anything bigger than this for making charcoal.

If you are referring to rice refuse ,the 30-40% of stalk that is left in the paddy is still connected to the root system so not available (unless you pay for it) and what is left after threshing is used as cattle food (and getting expensive).

You can buy small mulchers locally for about 50k, but to purchase a chipper with say a 4 inch capacity you are talking many millions of baht, plus the upkeep is horrendously expensive as the blades require specialist sharpening equipment.

Making compost is not just a matter of throwing lots of debris in a heap and presto.

It needs other matter such as vegetable and animal matter ,moisture and regular turning (aerating) ,lime to adjust the PH, depending on the material you are trying to compost even Nitrogen in the form of Urea or animal or bird poo as the micro-organisms need heaps of N to work and multiply.

Its a noble idea scotbeve ,but one which IMHO Thailand is not ready for,

Oz,

Morbark mulcher (I used the term chipper cuz' people are more familiar with the term) costs between US$ 16,000 - 22,000 pending size. Can do even after the exorbinant (100%) import tax. Upkeep I'd do myself in my shops. Would never buy a local or chinese one. A rather heavy cost up front, but, yeah, it's noble!

All your points are correct. Decorative cover is part of the idea as well... I have done (some of) my home work on this and previously had a small scale compost factory on one of the pieces of land that "we" own. Yep, N defeciency is a biggie. The land and soil dept. (sic) has the formulae (for free / ltd quantities) to do just this. Garbage, heaps are needed. Manure, got it. Time? Yes, it does take a while but these formulae accelerate it. Aeration, yep, you need a tractor and / or back hoe. And finally, a test kit bought off the shelf. Also need worms and rich black dirt (if possible).

I'll probably go ahead and do this anyhow for yet another pre-retirement business. Looking a year from now to be in swing with this. A flop slight possibility, a fortune maker definitely not, a little profit most likely. But it might just help with a few of my original points and employ a few more people.

[Cuban]

Sorry to toss my two statangs worth into the mix, I like the idea of composting (small scale kitchen garden rather than an industrial scale) but found that our compose is too dry when simple discarded fruit casing from the house comprises most of the matter. When rice etc is added I get a lot of maggots, wish I had chickens at this point. I believe that recycled beer and wine can help the composting effect.

[ozzydom]

Sorry to toss my two statangs worth into the mix, I like the idea of composting (small scale kitchen garden rather than an industrial scale) but found that our compose is too dry when simple discarded fruit casing from the house comprises most of the matter. When rice etc is added I get a lot of maggots, wish I had chickens at this point. I believe that recycled beer and wine can help the composting effect.

Cuban, a simple,effective compost heap requires equal amounts of greens (grass cuttings ,veggiie or fruit scraps etc) and dries (or browns) which can be raked up dry leaves ,dry grass or hay etc.

Just put them in a pile and mix, then mix in a couple of shovels of garden soil,(this will be the source of your micro-organisms),give the pile a good initial watering (damp ,not saturated).

Give the pile 2 weeks to get working then start turning the pile over every week (bottom to end up on top).

The turning aerates the mix and helps keep the temperature down,the MO,s work best at about 45-55 degrees ,under and over and the beasties slow down,taking longer to do the composting .

Once the process has begun ,fly blow is not a problem as the heat kills them.

If you have the room ,a 3 sided timber stucture keeps all neat and tidy,a 3mx1.5m x 1m high will give you 3 bays so that you can have them working continuously and somewhere to put your scraps as they are available.

Using these "ingredients" should give you good compost in 2-3 months,as soon as a pile cools down its ready.

[SAP]

What about a haybaler and baling all piles of rice straw left after harvest from the little portable mills. Take it to a central composting heap.

Talking with the villagers to use a poopa scooper and scoop up the buffalo's do-do's each morning, work out the economics (maybe even have to use a moisture tester to test the crap so people don't rip you by selling you water)

And you can mix anything else organic that may be avialble for free or next to nothing

Compost it all together, and at last years prices you would have something worth about 1500-2500 baht per ton.

Just an idea, I have never really worked the economics of it.

SAP

[gwynt]

What about a haybaler and baling all piles of rice straw left after harvest from the little portable mills. Take it to a central composting heap.

Talking with the villagers to use a poopa scooper and scoop up the buffalo's do-do's each morning, work out the economics (maybe even have to use a moisture tester to test the crap so people don't rip you by selling you water)

And you can mix anything else organic that may be avialble for free or next to nothing

Compost it all together, and at last years prices you would have something worth about 1500-2500 baht per ton.

Just an idea, I have never really worked the economics of it.

SAP

Where we live lot of turkey poo available mixed with rice straw and I was thinking of banana leaves to increase the moisture.

[KhunDennis]

My hat is off to you OP, what a great idea. This country desperately needs programs like composting. Hopefully, someday the people will adapt to new methods that are proved to work. It is a shame to see all the good organic matter going up in smoke.

[rice555]

Hello Khun Dennis, maybe this will work? 55 55 55

rice555

Samak pledges Bt4billion for organic fertiliser project

Published on May 11, 2008

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej Sunday pledged a budget of Bt4 billion to implement a project to encourage farmers to stop using inorganic fertilisers.

Responding to a viewer's question during his live Talk Samak Style project, the prime minister said the use of organic fertilser would reduce the need of the use of pesticides, and thus increasing chances of exports of Thai produces to western countries.

The Nation

[stoneman]

Hello Khun Dennis, maybe this will work? 55 55 55

rice555

Samak pledges Bt4billion for organic fertiliser project

Published on May 11, 2008

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej Sunday pledged a budget of Bt4 billion to implement a project to encourage farmers to stop using inorganic fertilisers.

Responding to a viewer's question during his live Talk Samak Style project, the prime minister said the use of organic fertilser would reduce the need of the use of pesticides, and thus increasing chances of exports of Thai produces to western countries.

The Nation

Wonder which politician is next in line to get this 4 billion...That is an awfully big pile of bull@^@t....

Stoneman

[Khonwan]

... the prime minister said the use of organic fertilser would reduce the need of the use of pesticides...

The Nation

I don't suppose he explained how!

[scotbeve]

Rice 555,

"Responding to a viewer's question during his live Talk Samak Style project, the prime minister said the use of organic fertilser would reduce the need of the use of pesticides, and thus increasing chances of exports of Thai produces to western countries."

Perhaps if he'd shut his trap there wouldn't be quite an amount of CO2 and methane being discharged....