Farming

[micky44]

ok guys, here is a question. do you think it would be possible to be almost self sufficent in LOS if you had say , well i don,t know but we will say 40 rai, on this land we would grow rice, have some fruit trees, have a large pond for bla duck or some other horrible soil tasting fish that my wife likes to eat! a few ducks chicken ,maybe the odd pig and or cow ? i realise it wont make a fortune probally wont make a penny but the question is will it cost me any money ? not taking in to accont the cost of the land, see i have a nest egg but it is not quite enough to retire 100%, or do we carry on doing 6 months uk, 6 months thailand and leave the money in the uk bank ? what do you think ? cheers micky.

[Issangeorge]

Micky, even if you continue working it might be wise to buy land now for the future. I only see farm land rising in value. Don't be in a hurry, keep your eyes and ears open and if you hear of some land that is a good value grab it. Issangeorge

[xerostar]

It's difficult to give you any specific advice micky but seeing as nobody else has tried - here is my 20 cents worth.

Of course you can be self sufficient, I think everyone will agree. It depends on the what you have in mind and what you're already used to. A grand mansion of a house with servants it may not be, but it could be, depending on what you spend to get established.

It would rely on good planning, a lot of hard work and some years waiting for trees to mature before you have your little paradise complete.

With 40 Rai of good land you will have no trouble feeding your family.

Most money will be spent getting established.

If you were starting from scratch with just a block of land then you will need to spend quite a lot of money to get established.

A house, a car, a tractor, ploughs, farm sheds, fertilizer, bore hole installation, pumps, reticulation pipes, water tanks, feed troughs, stock purchase, veterinary costs, seed, hired labour costs will all eat a substantial hole in your nest egg - like it has mine.

In the end I doubt that you would make much money but it should be enough to pay the electricity bills and buy some diesel for the car.

At worst you will be well fed, be your own boss, enabling you to enjoy life and be content.

I think that should be all we need to live happily ever after.

What would be in doubt is a yearly airfare back to the homeland or a new car every year.

With good management and a saving plan you should be able to manage a trip home every 4 years.

That's what I would aim for anyway.

However if your wife could purchase a 100 rai or more, you should be able to make a good yearly profit.

It depends if you are going to share the profit with your wife's extended family or just keep it for your wife and self.

I still need to do 2 more years work in Oz before retiring (when I turn 65).

I've made the commitment to help my wife's family become self sufficient by giving them the tools and land they need.

There are 2 brothers, 4 sisters and mum together with about 12 children aged from 6 months to 17 years.

Hopefully that will ensure I get looked after into old age. (assuming everything goes to plan, that is)

We have purchased 165 rai and my wife's siblings are all busy farming that land now.

However it will be a year or more before the first harvest of cassava, so they are not yet fully self sufficient, by any means.

We started with 10 rai 18 months ago and mum and one of the sisters planted cassava on that, with a recent harvest.

It has proven a great moral booster for the family who were fairly poor before yours truly appeared on the scene.

They are getting some work doing ploughing jobs for neighboring farmers. So they are making enough for fuel and food.

One sister-in-law has been set up with a chicken run and is happy to supply us all with eggs.

It would be easy for me to pack up right now and move to LOS.

However the nest egg is not big enough. I'm just drawing the line at working in Oz beyond age 65.

If the nest egg is still too small then too bad, we're out of here!

I plan to do a few years farming in LOS before I depart this earth for good.

You have to make a plan and just do it, otherwise you will be still dreaming of that farm when you drop dead.

If you are a still a long way from 65 then your plans can be more flexible. The 6 month plan would be a good one

allowing you time to build the nest egg and get things established without throwing all your eggs in one basket.

Issangeorge's advice is spot on! Get some land now.

[PaddyThai]

Good advice above.

I also agree, agricultural land prices should continue to rise. May even escalate rapidly.

I would try to get 100 rai of good farmland, ideally with road, electricity and water supply.

I (my wife) already have a few hundred rai in different parts of Isaan but will have pension and savings to fall back on.

Depending on who you read on this forum we either are woefully under funded or have more than enough.

The question of how best to make an income from farming has yet to be resolved and is a source of much debate on this forum.

For your own peace of mind you would be wise to plan for your move and do some number crunching.

[micky44]

Good advice above.

I also agree, agricultural land prices should continue to rise. May even escalate rapidly.

I would try to get 100 rai of good farmland, ideally with road, electricity and water supply.

I (my wife) already have a few hundred rai in different parts of Isaan but will have pension and savings to fall back on.

Depending on who you read on this forum we either are woefully under funded or have more than enough.

The question of how best to make an income from farming has yet to be resolved and is a source of much debate on this forum.

For your own peace of mind you would be wise to plan for your move and do some number crunching.

[micky44]

Good advice above.

I also agree, agricultural land prices should continue to rise. May even escalate rapidly.

I would try to get 100 rai of good farmland, ideally with road, electricity and water supply.

I (my wife) already have a few hundred rai in different parts of Isaan but will have pension and savings to fall back on.

Depending on who you read on this forum we either are woefully under funded or have more than enough.

The question of how best to make an income from farming has yet to be resolved and is a source of much debate on this forum.

For your own peace of mind you would be wise to plan for your move and do some number crunching.

[micky44]

hi guys, thank you for three really good and informative replys, we are not sure what to do at the moment, the banks in the uk will give 7.01% if you are prepared to tie your money up for one year at a time, which is ALMOST enough if we live up jungle in Udon, i am lucky in so much as we (my wife works at a super market when we are in the uk and does not send 1 satang home ) do not have to support any of my wifes family and nor does she have any children. wiyh regards to the 100 rai that is about 40 acre over here in the uk, would i be right in saying that for rice paddy ground next to a road would be about 10000 bhat a rai ? in which case that would be approx £160000 which and i am sure you know where i am going now!! would give a return of £11200 ayear interest in a uk bank or £250 a week !i dont spend that in pattaya!! what say you ? thanks again for all of your comments, has any one else got any thoughts cheers michael.

[colino]

i have two buffalo now but i sold two for 18000 baht each my sister in law looks after them and i just gave her a few thousand baht after the sale when my house is built i will get some more (oh and no vet bills yet lol)

[Ciaphas]

Hi Micky,

I think you've got your sums wrong there 100 rai at 10,000 per rai would be around £16,000. I also think your estimate for land is well of the mark. In the area where I live the cheapest land is around 25k per rai and that is very difficult to come by, we've had a couple of offers recently to buy land and they were all asking 35k per rai.

Going on you wanting 40 rai I would think the start up costs would be more like this

Land 40 x 35,000 1,400,000

Start up 1,000,000

(tractor, equipment, fertiliser, irrigation, staff, crops)

Basic house (I'll assume you don't have one) 1,000,000

Total 3,400,000

Which would roughly work out at £50,000 in a account with 7% interest per annum would work out at £3,500 (which is probably more money than you would make from a farm of 40 rai).

But having said all that my wife runs a farm of 35 rai on which she grows various crops and now a few ducks. It doesn't make a lot of money but enough for her to live off. Without my money we would not be able to go on holidays or buy the nice things in life. I really enjoy the farm and am happy that we have it, I enjoy helping out each day all though it can be back breaking work and love to eat the food that we grow. Each morning and evening I go for a walk around our land with the dogs which makes me very happy.

I think the other posters gave some good advice about buying land now as it does seem to be going up at an alarming rate these days. What I would recommend if you do want to farm in your retirement is to start with a few rai and see how it goes. As there is nothing better than eating the food you create, it also gives you something to do that will keep you active which is always a good thing.

[micky44]

yes thanks for spotting the deliberate mistake ! i missed a nought off the figure, i was assuming land prices of approx 1000,000 a rai. not 10,ooo a rai i would buy all of thailand at that rate! do you think i am over pricing at 100,ooo a rai? i realise it is hard to say not seeing the land but it is just out side the wifes viallage by the side of a concrete road ? i also have to say the wife does NOT want to go back to thailand, she is more than happy going to college and working in the locall supermarket, it is me pushing to get over there, once again thank you for your input. michael.

[Ciaphas]

You get two different prices for land. Land by the side of a road with electricity and mains water will cost around 100,000 per rai or more depending on location because it's suitable for building a house. Where as land for agriculture goes for anywhere between 20k-45k per rai.

[micky44]

100 rai is certainly a lot of ground, and with that size of land i would imagine that i would have to hire in extra help, that is not really what i was intending to do, apart from anything else it seems to be a great deal of work for very little return,if i was to put that amount of work in to my 6 months in the uk every year i could gross almost 1000000 bhat. my plan aim or dream was to kick back when i was having my 6 months of the year in los. but with perhaps 40 rai to grow our rice, and a pond , a few hens ,a pig, there is already banana coconut and mangoes on the plot. just would need to support my wife and i with out having to keep touching my nesr egg. cheers michael.

[Ciaphas]

I wouldn't recommend growing rice. My wife refuses to grow it as she says it's too much hard work as it all has to be hand planted and harvested by hand. We usually let locals use our land during rainy season to grow rice and grow corn on it for the other half the year.

[ozzydom]

I wouldn't recommend growing rice. My wife refuses to grow it as she says it's too much hard work as it all has to be hand planted and harvested by hand. We usually let locals use our land during rainy season to grow rice and grow corn on it for the other half the year.

Mechanical harvesters are getting to be a dime a dozen in most areas and most times work out more efficient and cost effective than than hand cutting.

[Zeid]

I wouldn't recommend growing rice. My wife refuses to grow it as she says it's too much hard work as it all has to be hand planted and harvested by hand. We usually let locals use our land during rainy season to grow rice and grow corn on it for the other half the year.

Mechanical harvesters are getting to be a dime a dozen in most areas and most times work out more efficient and cost effective than than hand cutting.

Can you rent out the mechanial harvesters by the hour?

if yes how much will one cost,

[Orac]

hi guys, thank you for three really good and informative replys, we are not sure what to do at the moment, the banks in the uk will give 7.01% if you are prepared to tie your money up for one year at a time, which is ALMOST enough if we live up jungle in Udon, i am lucky in so much as we (my wife works at a super market when we are in the uk and does not send 1 satang home ) do not have to support any of my wifes family and nor does she have any children. wiyh regards to the 100 rai that is about 40 acre over here in the uk, would i be right in saying that for rice paddy ground next to a road would be about 10000 bhat a rai ? in which case that would be approx £160000 which and i am sure you know where i am going now!! would give a return of £11200 ayear interest in a uk bank or £250 a week !i dont spend that in pattaya!! what say you ? thanks again for all of your comments, has any one else got any thoughts cheers michael.

Micky,

You need to take into account inflation on this if you take all the interest out annually - 250 pounds in 10-15 years will probably be worth a fraction of its value now but the return from farm produce should keep track with inflation.

[ozzydom]

I wouldn't recommend growing rice. My wife refuses to grow it as she says it's too much hard work as it all has to be hand planted and harvested by hand. We usually let locals use our land during rainy season to grow rice and grow corn on it for the other half the year.

Mechanical harvesters are getting to be a dime a dozen in most areas and most times work out more efficient and cost effective than than hand cutting.

Can you rent out the mechanial harvesters by the hour?

if yes how much will one cost,

Pretty sure they work on price per rai or more usually per bag threshed, dont forget the harvester replaces the cutters and the mobile threshing machine contractor.

Getting cutters is always a big problem during main harvest as they chase the fast buck, its not unusual to arrange say 20 cutters and only 5 turn up because somebody offered them 50 baht a day more.

[Zeid]

hmmm

how much does one harvester cost?

will it abe a good idea to buy one and rent it out in the harvest season?

same they do with the tractor

[pnustedt]

hmmm

how much does one harvester cost?

I run two Generli Harvesters (from Bang Len), they cost over Bt2mill each. At the bottom of the range Kubota make a small machine at Bt800-900K. Kaset Pattani in Pitsanulok make a range of machines from Bt1.4-1.9 million.

We do contract harvesting, the price charged per rai last year in Sisaket was Bt550-620/rai. It will be considerably more this year, probably breaking Bt700/rai.

[Zeid]

how long does it take to harvest one rai?

[pnustedt]

how long does it take to harvest one rai?

It depends very much on the conditions and size of paddy, but in good conditions I do a rai in about 10 minutes.

[Zeid]

just looked up the kubota, there is harvester that looks like a very sweet machine, uh uh uh (from the comedy show home improvement )

http://www.siamkubota.co.th/en/products.aspx?cid=5

now that is rated at 8 rai, so o a good day (i guess) 6 rai will make you 4200B at your current expecting price not bad, even if half of the revenue has gone towards expenses and depreciation. though what else can it be used to harvest?

[ozzydom]

how long does it take to harvest one rai?

It depends very much on the conditions and size of paddy, but in good conditions I do a rai in about 10 minutes.

pnustedt, as a harvesting contractor and for the benefit of our members. What do you consider are the benefits (if any ) of mechanical harvesting as opposed to hand cutting.

cheers

ozzydom

[ozzydom]

just looked up the kubota, there is harvester that looks like a very sweet machine, uh uh uh (from the comedy show home improvement )

http://www.siamkubota.co.th/en/products.aspx?cid=5

now that is rated at 8 rai, so o a good day (i guess) 6 rai will make you 4200B at your current expecting price not bad, even if half of the revenue has gone towards expenses and depreciation. though what else can it be used to harvest?

Zeid, I think you will find there is more to harvesting than adding up daily income.

Most (if not all )rice harvesters are crawlers(tracked ) so you also need a low loader and prime mover to get from site to site ,wages would eat into the margin ,depending on how many in a crew.

The harvest season is only short so your machine has a lot of down time and if the rice harvesters are anything like other harvesters they are fairly high maintenance.

[Gary A]

Why the concern about harvesting? Pulling seedlings and replanting are the major problem. That is where the majority of work is. Tilling and harvesting are the easy parts.

[pnustedt]

pnustedt, as a harvesting contractor and for the benefit of our members. What do you consider are the benefits (if any ) of mechanical harvesting as opposed to hand cutting.

cheers

ozzydom

I suppose the main benefit to me is that I make a profit and provide employment for the family who wish to work!

However, hand cutting is becoming much more difficult to achieve around here, especially if you have a sizeable rice farm - say over 50 rai of land, it would be nearly impossible to get the people to hand cut. I also believe that machine can be more efficient in regards to waste. When hand cutting you place the ears to dry on the stalks to dry, then a couple of days later take them to a thresher or hand thresh them - I believe the waste level will be about 10%.

With machine harvesting the farmer gets sacks of rice imediately (he has to dry them) but the waste is under 3% when using an efficient machine. Last year I had the pleasure of competing with a harvester from a northern contractor and was able to demonstrate that my machine delivered 10% more rice from a similar paddy.

In our area (Sisaket) we harvest rice in sacks, it takes three people to man the harvester - the driver is paid Bt50/rai and two "sackers" paid Bt30 each. I provide food and beer at the end of the day. Hand cutters cannot expect to achieve anything like the productivity and efficiency which we achieve. The main criteria is to get customers (or paddies) close together in a day, avoiding expensive downtime moving machines around the province.

To Zeid: Be aware that farmers will choose the larger machines to harvest their rice - you may have difficulty finding customers with the Kubota machine. If you are situated in the middle of rice paddies you may be able to get away without a transporter. However, if you decide to go for a Kubota or similar small machine I have a trailer for sale which can be towed by a pick-up (I bought a Yanmar harvester a couple of years ago but it didn't work out).

For Gary A: There is little hand planting (dum nah) around here nowadays. Actually I offer a full service from ploughing thru harvesting to baling straw. Farmers usually just throw their seed around and hope for the best, many don't even bother with fertiliser, especially at today's prices.

I am looking at introducing a second crop on a farm I have next to a river, but to do so I would need to hand plant, I am looking at the possibility of introducing machine planting of rice seedlings.

Edited May 14, 2008 by pnustedt

[JungleBiker]

Why the concern about harvesting? Pulling seedlings and replanting are the major problem. That is where the majority of work is. Tilling and harvesting are the easy parts.

Anybody here do direct sowing? That seems to be the best way to avoid the labour intensive transplanting job.

JB.

(Ah sorry, after making my post I saw that pnustedt already mentioned direct sowing ("throw their seed around").

Edited May 15, 2008 by JungleBiker

[gwynt]

hi guys, thank you for three really good and informative replys, we are not sure what to do at the moment, the banks in the uk will give 7.01% if you are prepared to tie your money up for one year at a time, which is ALMOST enough if we live up jungle in Udon, i am lucky in so much as we (my wife works at a super market when we are in the uk and does not send 1 satang home ) do not have to support any of my wifes family and nor does she have any children. wiyh regards to the 100 rai that is about 40 acre over here in the uk, would i be right in saying that for rice paddy ground next to a road would be about 10000 bhat a rai ? in which case that would be approx £160000 which and i am sure you know where i am going now!! would give a return of £11200 ayear interest in a uk bank or £250 a week !i dont spend that in pattaya!! what say you ? thanks again for all of your comments, has any one else got any thoughts cheers michael.

The first land we bought 13rai 22,000/rai near dirt road, second lot 22rai 24,000 near concrete road latest 4rai right on major road with intention of house build 100,000/rai this is over a three yaer period so it's safe to say land prices are on the up.

We already have small tractor and one big kubuto 75hp,and all equipment to allow hire out which returns good money, we plan to reach 100rai with a bit of back up earnings, I plan to lecture part time, Ithink we will eventually become self sufficient and allow me to settle down to becomeing a born again farmer.

I think the important factor is no illusions of an easy time, but plenty of enjoyment.

gwynt