Are Foreigners Destroying Thailand?

[phomsanuk]

Accusing foreigners of destroying Thailand is streatching it a bit, the evidence on the ground is that the Thais are doing a pretty good job by themselves.

However, I think a case can be made that Thailand destroys more than a few foreigners.

Agreed Guesthouse.

It's the greedy Thais who are destroying their own country.

The greed, as we know, comes from the top, down.

Right down to the bottom, where the greedy parents send their barely eligible daughters to the bars to hook a 'farang' so they don't have to work anymore.

Unfortunately you're spot on but it is their county, custom and culture so we can take it or lump it. I still don't want to go home. Got tro be a little strret wise to survive and enjoy. Don't get IBS over it.

[PeaceBlondie]

I warned them, in my first public speech in Thailand, in late 2003, not to allow Thailand to go Western. Too late, and they did not heed my advice (most of them were provincial English teachers who did not understand me). Their country, their fault, not ours.

Thank you Paul Revere for warning the Thais about us.

FYI, there are a LOT of good things about the West that this country could certain benefit from... such as human rights, an efficient and less corrupt police force, school that actually teach students, a judicial system that doesn't discriminate (usually ), etc.

....Sorry, but Thais don't fart sunshine and poop rainbows. They're just as responsible for the mass destruction of this land as anyone. Many will do whatever it takes to make money... but then again, many people from every nation think the same way.

I apologize for apologizing for the Thais. I warned them not to let their children become disrespectful of their elders, and not to let their children get pregnant before marriage (all my girls did), or smoke pot or become alcoholics, like most of my kids, or drop out of school (4 out of 6 only finished 9th grade).

I agree that Thailand has not assimilated the good Western values. I admit to having worn rose-colored glasses and not seeing the colors of the Thai farts and poop. That came later. I agree with Guesthouse that Thais mess up Thailand with no substantial help from the farang who migrate here. The bad influences of Western culture, however, have been imported by the Thais and become the very essence of modern Thainess.

[Baa_Mango]

i think everyone plays a role.

[begsaresponse]

I think the Thai people are quite capable of destroying their own country. We foreigners have no rights or powers so we must watch and observe the ongoing destruction of paradise.

[StephenDenisEdwards]

One can hardly say that Thailand is overrun with foreigners and I believe that the official figures bear this out. In fact I find Thailand as a whole to be very homogenous.

Certainly, coming from London as I do, Bangkok is far from being a cosmopolitan city by comparison and wouldn’t be in the same league as London at all on that score.

If I were in England and posed the same question about foreigners or migrants there I would probably be branded a racist! Have foreigners ruined England? In the part of London that I live in it is rare to hear English spoken. It is a true melting pot, more so than any other city that I have been to – and I’ve been to many.

I believe Thailand, as with England, has benefited from the relatively small migrant/foreign community that has chosen to come here to live and do business. It has benefited culturally and financially despite the extremely nationalistic and anti foreign policies of successive Thai governments.

It is the Thai government voted for (well occasionally) and run by Thai people that have allowed ruinous development of some of the places that you mention. Had Westerners been in charge of planning and development etc, would these places be what they are today? I think not. As it is they have had little or no real say. It is therefore disingenuous to place the blame for these failings at their feet.

Having said that, I believe Thailand is a better country than it was 20 years ago for the Thai population and better than 50 years ago. My father came here then when it was very much a third world country, 50 years ago. One could not say Thailand is a third world country now. Is that change you don't like?

Your question: Are we, the foreign residents/visitors here (unwittingly maybe?) helping to destroy what we came here for?

The answer depends, of course, entirely on what you came here for in the first instance.

I would say this; if you came here 20 years ago hoping that it would never change then you had an impossible expectation. If you simply don’t like the way the inevitable change has been managed then I can agree with that, but I blame the Thais for that, not the foreigners who have no say about it.

[JimsKnight]

Are foreigners destroying Thailand?

No, but the western mindset i see them grabbing from the silly TV soaps is quite frankly disturbing and vomit inducing.

I can recall the 90s TV in Thailand (just!), there seemed to be more of a decent happy-go-lucky vibe than the stupid slapstick / ultra-rich drama folk nowadays.

[Huey]

The only place I have seen damaged over the 7 years I have been here, is Pattaya when they lifted the visa restrictions for Russians. It has definitely went down hill ever since.

That's a ridiculous statement..

But then again, I should probably be mindful as to what some people consider 'down hill' in relation to Pattaya.. More than a few people don't actually want it to continue to develop into a family friendly beach resort town...............................

Yeah its FAMILY friendly all right, as long as your from the Solntsevskaya or Izmailovskaya Family or some other <deleted> mafia trash that infests old Patters now. There are a TON of MUCH nicer beaches in Thailand all of which are quite family friendly, why try and push family oriented activities into the brothel town? I liked it better as the adult disney world as opposed to this confused, over crowded mess it is now.

I'm glad I'm not single anymore it would really be depressing then

[Spee]

No disrespect to the OP, but I think the whole premise of the question is pretty lame.

- What parts of Thailand have been "destroyed?"

- In those areas of destruction, if any, what parts have met their demise at the hands of "foreigners?"

People in certain frames of mind will always look for some reason to blame something on someone. Whatever happened to "It is what it is," "Que sara sara," and "Mai bpen rai?"

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion about something. As a wise man once told me "Everyone is entitled to their own wrong opinion." But just bitchin' for the sake of bitchin'? There's nothing constructive there, just negatives.

One either likes it or not. One can either accept change or not. One can either deal with things or not. The only constant in life is change, doesn't matter where one lives.

Like my closing sentiment goes: "Where one lives is not is not so important as how, and with whom."

Life's too short to spend time looking for ways to play the blame game.

Edited May 12, 2008 by Spee

[Ijustwannateach]

Along Guesthouse's post, foreigners don't have the power to destroy anything here. It's the locals doing most of that.

Count this as one of the few moments when I agree with Heng!

[meadish_sweetball]

Where one lives is not is not so important as how, and with whom.

True words, dat.

[LaoPo]

I've been here in Thailand for coming up to two decades and in that time I've seen major changes within the country. Let me add that I live in a provincial Thai town, way off the worn down tourist trail. When I first arrived here, it was pretty much me, me alone, the only westerner there. Now, there are well over 100 westerners in this town, most of whom are teachers ....

In the tourist areas it is far worse. Phuket I remember as once being so beautiful with quiet beaches and friendlier people, Khoa Lak was pretty much deserted, Khokroi an empty beach, Aunang quiet and peaceful. I'm not even going to mention Koh Samui/Chang etc (haven't been up north for a while but I imagine it is the same in popular places). All have gone downhill in my opinon, the beauty has been lost, forever maybe and replaced with overpriced condos, unplanned or ill-thought building projects, gawdy bars, greedy locals, greedy western business owners etc etc fed by forever busier roads and an ever growing population.

My question is; Are we, the foreign residents/visitors here (unwittingly maybe?) helping to destroy what we came here for? I believe it is because of our presence, that we are. If there have been this many changes in the time I've been here, what changes in the coming decades.

Any comments?

Comments ? Yes.....!

have a look at this:

The world is now at 6.6 Billion....

I was born in a world with less than 2,5 Billion....

My father had the first and only car in our neighbourhood; lately I drove the same street...guess what ?

You can't change the past nor future; instead, enjoy every single day you've got and..keep smiling

BTW: The first time I was in Patong there was just 1 hotel: the Patong Beach Hotel.....oh memories...

But to answer your question: "Are Foreigners Destroying Thailand?" the answer is NO.

LaoPo

[cophen]

i come from Melbourne. when my parents built their house, just a 1 hour drive from the city, it was on a dirt road and we had goannas and snakes in our backyard. now, 40 years on, the house is smack bang in the middle of suburbia.

its just a sign of the times im afraid.

I was a ten quid Pom and where we lived in East Keilor (10 miles from the middle of Melbourne) we had open drains and the Dunnyman 40 years ago. I went back there 20 years ago and it was just another suburb - although a rather nice one.

[mistresserika]

Thais are definately responsible for ruining their own country. It's just their general attitude.

[cobra]

There are places I remember

All my life though some have changed

Some forever not for better

Some have gone and some remain

Perfect Edited May 13, 2008 by cobra

[simcity]

Thais are definately responsible for ruining their own country. It's just their general attitude.

Agree on that

I saw kids kicking football on a centuries old Chedi, every time some piece crumble.

I ask a Thai monk passing through if that was important ..

Reply was it is not !

What are they doing in mangrove & adding salt for prawns farming

Deforestation

[Cuban]

....the foreign owned hotels?

....the foreign owned factories?

....the foriegn inspired lifestyle aspirations?

The Thais that issue permits for all the above etc for a suitable fee?

[LinkPopularity]

I've been here in Thailand for coming up to two decades and in that time I've seen major changes within the country. Let me add that I live in a provincial Thai town, way off the worn down tourist trail. When I first arrived here, it was pretty much me, me alone, the only westerner there. Now, there are well over 100 westerners in this town, most of whom are teachers ....

In the tourist areas it is far worse. Phuket I remember as once being so beautiful with quiet beaches and friendlier people, Khoa Lak was pretty much deserted, Khokroi an empty beach, Aunang quiet and peaceful. I'm not even going to mention Koh Samui/Chang etc (haven't been up north for a while but I imagine it is the same in popular places). All have gone downhill in my opinon, the beauty has been lost, forever maybe and replaced with overpriced condos, unplanned or ill-thought building projects, gawdy bars, greedy locals, greedy western business owners etc etc fed by forever busier roads and an ever growing population.

My question is; Are we, the foreign residents/visitors here (unwittingly maybe?) helping to destroy what we came here for? I believe it is because of our presence, that we are. If there have been this many changes in the time I've been here, what changes in the coming decades.

Any comments?

you're absolutely right ... so, get your bags and be gone !

[TheDon]

Destroying Thailand? Thailand is getting better IMO. The only places that are getting destroyed is where the load tourists come drink and roam the streets. Well maybe only the peice but thats nothing.

[LaoPo]

Are Foreigners Destroying Thailand?

Thailand 1950 = 20 million people

Thailand 2008 = 65 million people

The difference of 45 million people* weren't 'created' by foreigners......I suppose.

* 325% growth of population in 58 years but the country didn't increase in size.

HOWEVER, there is a dramatic decline in growth:

"Thailand's highly successful government-sponsored family planning program has resulted in a dramatic decline in population growth from 3.1% in 1960 to less than 1% today. Life expectancy also has risen, a positive reflection of Thailand's efforts at public health education. However, the AIDS epidemic has had a major impact on the Thai population. Today, over 500,000 Thais live with HIV or AIDS--approximately 1.4% of the adult population. Each year, 25-30,000 Thais die from AIDS-related causes. Ninety percent of them are aged 20-49, the most productive sector of the workforce. The situation could have been worse; an aggressive public education campaign in the early 1990s reduced the number of new HIV infections from over 100,000 annually to around 15,000 annually now."

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2814.htm

LaoPo

[Travel2003]

If the foreigners represent a tiny minority in a country, then the locals are responsible for the country.

The foreigners can only do what they are allowed to do.

If the foreigners manage to destroy a country, as a tiny minority, well then I believe the locals allow them to do so.

[distortedlink]

I've been here in Thailand for coming up to two decades and in that time I've seen major changes within the country. Let me add that I live in a provincial Thai town, way off the worn down tourist trail. When I first arrived here, it was pretty much me, me alone, the only westerner there. Now, there are well over 100 westerners in this town, most of whom are teachers ....

In the tourist areas it is far worse. Phuket I remember as once being so beautiful with quiet beaches and friendlier people, Khoa Lak was pretty much deserted, Khokroi an empty beach, Aunang quiet and peaceful. I'm not even going to mention Koh Samui/Chang etc (haven't been up north for a while but I imagine it is the same in popular places). All have gone downhill in my opinon, the beauty has been lost, forever maybe and replaced with overpriced condos, unplanned or ill-thought building projects, gawdy bars, greedy locals, greedy western business owners etc etc fed by forever busier roads and an ever growing population.

My question is; Are we, the foreign residents/visitors here (unwittingly maybe?) helping to destroy what we came here for? I believe it is because of our presence, that we are. If there have been this many changes in the time I've been here, what changes in the coming decades.

Any comments?

Personally I don't think it's people like the OP and I, the token one off Farangs living in a Thai community that do any harm whatsoever and probably just the opposite, we add a little spice and a bit of variety to the otherwise mundane life of a small village or township.

The Farangs that are not beneficial to Thai life and culture are the business entrepreneurs and developers. These destroy whole enviroments and corrupt by imposing their so called Western values onto the Thai population that have bad influences especially on young people and cultural family values. Their interest in Thailand is purely commercial which destroys the magic and splender of what makes Thailand different from the West.

I would like to see more restrictions on Westerners, business and property ownership wise and more intense vetting for visa applicants. Hopefully Immigration will put more restrictions on foreign business and property entrepreneurs, increase the visa stake money investment amounts for non immigrant applicants and terminate the visa runs, that would clear out some of the excess dross living here.

Edited May 13, 2008 by distortedlink

[qwertz]

I've been here in Thailand for coming up to two decades and in that time I've seen major changes within the country. Let me add that I live in a provincial Thai town, way off the worn down tourist trail. When I first arrived here, it was pretty much me, me alone, the only westerner there. Now, there are well over 100 westerners in this town, most of whom are teachers ....

In the tourist areas it is far worse. Phuket I remember as once being so beautiful with quiet beaches and friendlier people, Khoa Lak was pretty much deserted, Khokroi an empty beach, Aunang quiet and peaceful. I'm not even going to mention Koh Samui/Chang etc (haven't been up north for a while but I imagine it is the same in popular places). All have gone downhill in my opinon, the beauty has been lost, forever maybe and replaced with overpriced condos, unplanned or ill-thought building projects, gawdy bars, greedy locals, greedy western business owners etc etc fed by forever busier roads and an ever growing population.

My question is; Are we, the foreign residents/visitors here (unwittingly maybe?) helping to destroy what we came here for? I believe it is because of our presence, that we are. If there have been this many changes in the time I've been here, what changes in the coming decades.

Any comments?

Personally I don't think it's people like the OP and I, the token one off Farangs living in a Thai community that do any harm whatsoever and probably just the opposite, we add a little spice and a bit of variety to the otherwise mundane life of a small village or township.

The Farangs that are not beneficial to Thai life and culture are the business entrepreneurs and developers. These destroy whole enviroments and corrupt by imposing their so called Western values onto the Thai population that have bad influences especially on young people and cultural family values. Their interest in Thailand is purely commercial which destroys the magic and splender of what makes Thailand different from the West.

I would like to see more restrictions on Westerners, business and property ownership wise and more intense vetting for visa applicants. Hopefully Immigration will put more restrictions on foreign business and property entrepreneurs, increase the visa stake money investment amounts for non immigrant applicants and terminate the visa runs, that would clear out some of the excess dross living here.

Right on, Sir. You've noticed too!

[LaoPo]

I would like to see more restrictions on Westerners, business and property ownership wise and more intense vetting for visa applicants. Hopefully Immigration will put more restrictions on foreign business and property entrepreneurs, increase the visa stake money investment amounts for non immigrant applicants and terminate the visa runs, that would clear out some of the excess dross living here.

Hopefully they don't forget to throw you out as well...

Well hidden -almost nazi like- pure racism..."I am better than you are"...

One of the most disgusting and dangerous nationalistic statements I've read on TV since I'm a member...

I certainly hope that the Government in Bangkok consists of more intelligent brains than some of the posters here.

LaoPo

[JimsKnight]

He's got a point. Look at some of the farang-run dodgy real estate firms springing up.

I've personally seen them descend to beach towns and cities to hoodwink and con farangs into parting with large sums of cash for houses and land they can't even own!

[LaoPo]

He's got a point. Look at some of the farang-run dodgy real estate firms springing up.

I've personally seen them descend to beach towns and cities to hoodwink and con farangs into parting with large sums of cash for houses and land they can't even own!

No he has NO point. He has NO right, as a farang, telling what the Thai Government should do or not.

It's the same if some Thai would tell Downingstreet 10 what to do...

If there is scum in a country, no matter which one, it's up to the local Government to take action, not what a guest in that same country wants just because he finds himself better than the rest of the farang.

Give me a break.

LaoPo

[retirednavyman]

Over the last few years, I've come across quite a number of articles, both in newspapers and on the internet, about how the presence of foreigners in economically-disadvantaged Isaan have significantly brought up the standard of living for large populations. The last article, in the BKK Post, estimated at least 750,000 jobs have been created for Thai nationals due to the presence of foreigners living there. That can't all be bad!

Excellent article, i like reading about positive things!

[geriatrickid]

BTW: The first time I was in Patong there was just 1 hotel: the Patong Beach Hotel.....oh memories...

Well, that just goes to show that some things never change cuz that hotel is circa 1980..........

[toybits]

Yes! If there are a lot of foreigners in a certain area and they are allowed to live there for long periods of time, they are bound to cause a change in the character of that place. It used to be areas like Chinatown in Los Angeles, San Francisco or London. Now it a new kind of Ghetto. A white man's ghetto.

[hanibal7]

I agree that the thais are getting more greedy and dont care about anybody but themselves.in pattaya thais rob thais as well as tourists.One of the main reasons i left england was because i didnt like the changes of society and i am very close to leaving pattaya due to the same reasons.evolution in thailand will continue and more greed will envelop the country but we all have decision,accept or not accept.

Edited May 14, 2008 by hanibal7

[jumnien]

In spite of foreigners, Thailand remains a lovely spot on our green earth to raise a family. Nothing ruined around here, it's a beautiful day!