This Is Why Your Western Business Will Fail In Thailand

[Dingojoe]

I am the guy who just go robbed.

I have asked 3 security companies for quotes on security systems in my house.

1/ Chubb

2/ Bosch

3/ AVID Security by NESS

As it has turned out, I have several neighbours who want a good security system also.

Chubb came around we told them exactly what we wanted, they came back 2 days later with a quote that had nothing what so every to do with what we asked for, the quote was cheap only because it was not what we wanted.

We gave up on Bosch seems they are not interested in doing business at all, maybe security for the Bosch people is just a side thing.

Avid / NESS Systems came around gave a quote and will be doing the job, now lets see when they get to do it, I want it done ASAP so my house dont get robbed again.

So bottom line is I am going with AVID, the system is western and they were quick to want business, the others have cheap Chinese stuff that may or may not be reliable and they just dont seem to care.

Seems to me if you have a western style business here and you have Thai people as staff, and I guess you must have Thai staff, how on earth can you make a good business when they are so lazy, dont show up, get your quote completely wrong, its just like they just dont give a sh_t, how can you do business here when your staff dont give a sh_t.

I feel sorry for all you western business people, it must be so frustrating, the cost of security in my house ended up being 135,000 baht, now we have 3 and possibly 4 homes here that want security, I would have thought 135,000 x 4 is good business.

[malcolmswaine]

I know what you're talking about, but i probably wouldn't give too much of a sh*t for an 8,000 Baht salary either

If you pay peanuts ....

[Nirvana]

I know what you're talking about, but i probably wouldn't give too much of a sh*t for an 8,000 Baht salary either

If you pay peanuts ....

wonder why comission is not attempted, best way for any sales guy to earn money, if they are lazy then it soon shows.

[Rooo]

Going to the other end of the spectrum, I got approached by a Thai national sales manager,representing a pest control company.After going throuh his spiel, he wanted me to sign a contract & pay a year in advance.Sure I said.So we ended up agreeing on 6 months & see how we go from there.

Get the house,surrounds, around supports & so on sprayed twice a month,they call to make appointment,show up right on time if not earlier & call if they are going to be late.If I have any problems , there in 1 hour.Service, can't fault.I hope I haven't jinxed myself.

Oh & by the way, from the manager to workers, the most professional I have come across on Samui.

So the secret is I suppose, that the owner or manager is hands on,which is not a secret to a succesful busines.

He now does5 houses around here.

[Nirvana]

Going to the other end of the spectrum, I got approached by a Thai national sales manager,representing a pest control company.After going throuh his spiel, he wanted me to sign a contract & pay a year in advance.Sure I said.So we ended up agreeing on 6 months & see how we go from there.

Get the house,surrounds, around supports & so on sprayed twice a month,they call to make appointment,show up right on time if not earlier & call if they are going to be late.If I have any problems , there in 1 hour.Service, can't fault.I hope I haven't jinxed myself.

Oh & by the way, from the manager to workers, the most professional I have come across on Samui.

So the secret is I suppose, that the owner or manager is hands on,which is not a secret to a succesful busines.

He now does5 houses around here.

roo, can you pls pm me the details of this incredible company that breaks the usual routine of lousy service, i would like to experience such a service for myself.thanks

[MSingh]

I know what you're talking about, but i probably wouldn't give too much of a sh*t for an 8,000 Baht salary either

If you pay peanuts ....

Just about sums it up. I am attempting to stay away from & rely as little as possible as i can from the locals with my Business. Living here is fine, running a serious Business that has to involve the Locals ( Thai ) then just forget it, it is very, very unlikely to happen.

[2008bangkok]

i know what you mean i work with a couple of Thai people and i must say that there methods and the way they think are just stupid but i guess if the whole country is doing it that way then its the norm...infuriating but the norm..

example..

I live in a apartment an they are painting the front of the apartments and the balconys the thai's who are paininting it will come on to my balcony and paint one tiny little bit then go...they have now been on the balcony 8 times and it still isnt finished..and its a very small balcony..why why why..just paint the f%$^kin thing once then go to the next one...

Time for my massage

[southbot]

My Thai wife and I sacked all my Thai staff and have no plan to hire any locals again.

This due to general laziness, unreliablity, lack of punctuality, too many days off work, too much "my buffalo sick" rubbish.

So I run my business with her and I now.

Don't get big then you don't get Thai staff, easy out eh?

Shame I don't do security stuff still, used to do it but no more.

[barky]

It is the exception rather than the rule to get business like people to do anything for you in a professional, customer oriented manner in Thailand. Usually the only exceptions are those working for milti-national companies where the expat is hands-on and oversees his Thai staff and/or the Thai owner of the company literally takes a hands-on approach. Generally speaking Thai workers have absolutely no concept of sevvice-mind/customer service. If they intend to live and work only in Thailand for the rest of their lives then they will survive, BUT if outside of Thailand, and, if I were the owner/manager of any company in the west and a Thai came to me for a job. especially any job that dealt directly with my customers, they would have absolutely no chance of being employed by me.

[Prakanong]

I will admit I have had some terrible experiences with workers in Thailand but the staff in our Bangkok office now are excellent.

If not the best in Asia they are certainly up there competing.

We do not pay them peanuts though - they start on at least 40k THB straight from Uni and it rises quickly - most earn more than your average farang English teacher an they are probably better qualified.

PS: We only employ women too

Edited May 13, 2008 by Prakanong

[Samuian]

As the example with the pest-buster shows, any Thai who is capable will do his/her own!

Independence is here too written in capitol letters!

People who let them self "down" for a salary.. usually are just looking for a hand to feed them, a roof, a shelter... been trhough many employees, always wondered why, this is the answer!

There are exceptions though...on the other hand they can be over-ambitious and you have to be very careful with what you let 'em know, before you wake up they got your business/job in their hands or you have to look at an exact-copy of it just opposite !!

Yep, TiT!

Edited May 13, 2008 by Samuian

[frankman]

My wife and I are having a asmall business since 7 years. But we are a 2 person business, because all the stuff we tried..... ownwers hands on is , my opinion, the best way to run a business in Thailand. If you want to get things done here,,,,,do it yourself, work work work...

[MSingh]

On Samui though it is very different to BKK though Prakhanong.

Let's be honest, Samuians that are here are pretty much uneducated as far as Western Business Concept is concerned ( of course i don't mean all, but the majority ), as are the Immigrant Thai Workers from all around the Country such as Nakhon Sri Thammarat, further South, Isaan etc so i think WE are a little naive to think they'd be anything different to what they actually are even if we do give them a 50% wage increase to what they would get at Home..

Edited May 13, 2008 by MSingh

[UmpaLumpa]

I am the guy who just go robbed.

I have asked 3 security companies for quotes on security systems in my house.

1/ Chubb

2/ Bosch

3/ AVID Security by NESS

As it has turned out, I have several neighbours who want a good security system also.

can i add Option 4:

4/ getting a couple of ugly thai dogs

they bark a lot, cost a little and give you love too!

[MSingh]

can i add Option 4:

4/ getting a couple of ugly thai dogs

they bark a lot, cost a little and give you love too!

There is definately a joke in there somewhere of you look hard enough...

[corkman]

TIT - this is thailand..... pay peanuts > get monkeys > all that malarky.

To me, the root cause of the problem is that alot is expected from thai staff, but not alot of training is given, and for the most part there is no incentive to do better or not.

To my mind, if you are going to expect an unskilled, un motivated thai worker to perform as well as his counter in say the UK, then you are going to have to invest something in him. If you business is going to be marketed mainly towards westerners, then this feature is paramount to the "busniess plan" or "business model" - plucking some guy out of a bar, sticking a 2000 baht suit on him, and paying him slightly above average wage simply will not result in a "trained professional". I mean in fairness, if you were setting up a security business in the uk, do you think that you can go into the local pub, pick up a few patrons or staff, give them 10 easy lessons and expect to compete? People just wouldn't have it.......

As with anywhere, training > performance related rewards > fair and reasonable expectations > continuous professional development > career progression - that is gonig to be the key to a sucessful business.......

Expecting western standard or service etc. from an untrianed, underpaid, over worked, and under apprecieted staff is never going to reap rewards.

Thai professionals work 9-5hrs, have weekends etc. off, sick pay, holiday pay, annual leave, etc. I would imagine? As do we in the west. I am not saying that in Samui you should recruit thai's, stick them on 20k baht, and send them off to school etc., just more laong the lines of operate the business in a western way, threat your staff accordingly (i.e. like western staff) and you will get results more akin to a western business.

I can imagine though how a large number of these guys come to be in the employment of western busniness owners. The thai wife has a brother or cousin or whatever that you "must give a job to" - the relative knows that he's not going to get fired no matter what - no training is given and even if it were its not taken in then a few months later they get sick of it....... simple ground rules, good rewards, and zero tolerance for "sick buffaloes".

I just think that we expect too much - if you expect "thai prices" then you gotta do things the "thai way" - if you expect things done the "western" way then you gotta expect to pay prices that approach western standars (or at least alot more than thai prices). Its like hotels and resorts...... most of the grils in the Amari are university graduates - and everything in the Amari is to a western standard - from the bed linen to butter on your toast - the girls enter on the promise of promotion junior staff>senior staff>trainee manager>assistent manager>manager and after that they are trained professionals with professional expereince..... go down to the 2000-3000 baht range everything approaches a western standard, though never quite achieves it..... really its only the manager speaks more than a handful of english and is probably the owners son or daughter, with high school education, the toast is never quite right, but its edible, and all round it is satisfactory, but not what you'd expect in London..... then go down to the 1000 baht or less catagory - better off sticking with the rice and hopefully you have a thai wife / or girlfriend to communicate with staff....... the manager is probably the brother or sister of a semi-sucessful thai busniness man or gangster - speaks good but not perfect english - and the rest of the staff are basically anyone they can get to work for crappy money that looks presentable and can say "hello, how are you"

Note - For me, personally, the latter is perfectly acceptable, the middle class is nice, but the top rung is a bit OTT.... I'm the type that likes to get good value - if it is acceptable to my wife (she's thai) then I am happy..... thai standards, thai prices, thai expectations > TIT.

Sorry - I've rambled on a bit too much.

Edited May 14, 2008 by corkman

[stiggy]

The Staff that work with Us are Loyal Smart,and work hard to.Show up on days of etc.

They have been with us for minimum of three years.We pay reasonably well but also take a bit of time to have fun.

I hear other western business owners debating how they have just hired some local Thai for ONLY 2-300 dollars a month and they get 2 days off a month etc.

Unsurprisingly it nearly always heads tits up and you then hear them complaining.

I experience good service from other companies to in Thailand, But then again we always try to be fair have a giggle and be polite.

I guess Im lucky.

Now the whole department store thing that is another story....................

[Charma]

TIT - this is thailand..... pay peanuts > get monkeys > all that malarky.

.......Its like hotels and resorts...... most of the grils in the Amari are university graduates - and everything in the Amari is to a western standard - from the bed linen to butter on your toast - the girls enter on the promise of promotion junior staff>senior staff>trainee manager>assistent manager>manager and after that they are trained professionals with professional expereince..... go down to the 2000-3000 baht range everything approaches a western standard, though never quite achieves it..... really its only the manager speaks more than a handful of english and is probably the owners son or daughter, with high school education, the toast is never quite right, but its edible, and all round it is satisfactory, but not what you'd expect in London..... then go down to the 1000 baht or less catagory - better off sticking with the rice and hopefully you have a thai wife / or girlfriend to communicate with staff....... the manager is probably the brother or sister of a semi-sucessful thai busniness man or gangster - speaks good but not perfect english - and the rest of the staff are basically anyone they can get to work for crappy money that looks presentable and can say "hello, how are you"

Note - For me, personally, the latter is perfectly acceptable, the middle class is nice, but the top rung is a bit OTT.... I'm the type that likes to get good value - if it is acceptable to my wife (she's thai) then I am happy..... thai standards, thai prices, thai expectations > TIT.

Sorry - I've rambled on a bit too much.

As I was reading down the threads I immediately thought of the Amari, but you beat me to it. I have used many hotels in Thailand but the staff at the various Amaris are just the best. I have NEVER had even one interaction that has not left me impressed with the way they conduct business. This has to be the result of the right rewards and the right training. To suggest that poor working practice is simply the result of your nationality is tosh. Recruit the wrong people in any country and the same results will follow. The same goes for pay and training. Also, to simply suggest that Thai people are lazy is inaccurate and deeply offensive. So many Thais are busting their balls for a pittance all over this country. You can find bad service anywhere in the world. It is the result of poor management and not down to the nationality or race of the workforce.

[Theyreallrubbish]

TIT - this is thailand..... pay peanuts > get monkeys > all that malarky.

.......Its like hotels and resorts...... most of the grils in the Amari are university graduates - and everything in the Amari is to a western standard - from the bed linen to butter on your toast - the girls enter on the promise of promotion junior staff>senior staff>trainee manager>assistent manager>manager and after that they are trained professionals with professional expereince..... go down to the 2000-3000 baht range everything approaches a western standard, though never quite achieves it..... really its only the manager speaks more than a handful of english and is probably the owners son or daughter, with high school education, the toast is never quite right, but its edible, and all round it is satisfactory, but not what you'd expect in London..... then go down to the 1000 baht or less catagory - better off sticking with the rice and hopefully you have a thai wife / or girlfriend to communicate with staff....... the manager is probably the brother or sister of a semi-sucessful thai busniness man or gangster - speaks good but not perfect english - and the rest of the staff are basically anyone they can get to work for crappy money that looks presentable and can say "hello, how are you"

Note - For me, personally, the latter is perfectly acceptable, the middle class is nice, but the top rung is a bit OTT.... I'm the type that likes to get good value - if it is acceptable to my wife (she's thai) then I am happy..... thai standards, thai prices, thai expectations > TIT.

Sorry - I've rambled on a bit too much.

As I was reading down the threads I immediately thought of the Amari, but you beat me to it. I have used many hotels in Thailand but the staff at the various Amaris are just the best. I have NEVER had even one interaction that has not left me impressed with the way they conduct business. This has to be the result of the right rewards and the right training. To suggest that poor working practice is simply the result of your nationality is tosh. Recruit the wrong people in any country and the same results will follow. The same goes for pay and training. Also, to simply suggest that Thai people are lazy is inaccurate and deeply offensive. So many Thais are busting their balls for a pittance all over this country. You can find bad service anywhere in the world. It is the result of poor management and not down to the nationality or race of the workforce.

The Chinese-Thai owner of a huge industrial group told me that they never hire full Thais for management positions only Chinese Thais as the full Thais are "too stupid"

So its not just farang doing the stereotyping!