Raising Horses

[Pierrot]

From the Nation :

Government officials in the provinces get an interesting message from the interior minister - 'use more horsepower', he says.

In the wake of rising petrol prices, Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung yesterday floated an idea encouraging district chiefs in the provinces to travel on horseback.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/06/14...es_30075521.php

I don't think this option is really realistic but do you think that raising horses has any future in LoS? And where to find european breed at reasonnable price (8 to 12 years old)?

[Mosha]

I have seen a few horses around here, rather pitiful looking. I think they are reared to help create anti snake bite medicines.

[rono]

Many horses in Khao Yai and Packchong.

[Gary A]

An ostrich has a very small brain. A horse has a large brain. Apparently brain size has little to do with intelligence. A horse is the second stupidest animal on earth after the ostrich.

[Pierrot]

An ostrich has a very small brain. A horse has a large brain. Apparently brain size has little to do with intelligence. A horse is the second stupidest animal on earth after the ostrich.

A very personnal opinion.

I have seen horses working with people with mental or emotional problems, the results are spectaculars. Horses have a sensibility few animals have.

[Pierrot]

Many horses in Khao Yai and Packchong.

I'm leaving nearby but so far couldn't locate any decent place. The only places I was able to visit, the horses were unfortunately looking quite pitiful as Mosha said, mostly for lack of care.

[Saiyan]

Having owned many horses for various equine disciplines, I very much doubt that this is economically viable, unless they are ignoring the interest of the animal in which case it would not be much good to do anything.

[Saiyan]

An ostrich has a very small brain. A horse has a large brain. Apparently brain size has little to do with intelligence. A horse is the second stupidest animal on earth after the ostrich.

I would strongly suggest that you look up some info on the intelligence of horses before making such statements. Not fighting, just being friendly.

[slapout]

Not sure about intelligence of ostrich, but if they wait until your back is turned to kick or bite you they may have a little grey matter. Horses in my experience, seemed to exhibit different intelligence levels depending on who owned and/or trained them. Have seen few who would kick at a person, but several who would bite (not hard to discourage). The saying eats like a horse has a lot of truth in it. They cost money to keep and if they are a hobby which are commercially stabled it can be a lot of money. In my younger years (long time ago) we kept 3 to 5 horses for working on farm/ranch. One of the best days of my life was being introduced to the ATV, The working horse population dropped when the ATV became common and the hobby horse population (and stables) increased. Hobby ownership of horses is kind of like having a racehorse, a farm in Thailand, a Thai wife/family etc. You better have the money to support them and dont depend on any positive monetary contribution from them. Gary; I dont totally disagree with you at all, I dont want either one as a hobby/pet. I sort of lean toward agreement with the fellow who said he was kind of partial to pigs.

[Pierrot]

Having owned many horses for various equine disciplines, I very much doubt that this is economically viable, unless they are ignoring the interest of the animal in which case it would not be much good to do anything.

Definitively agree with you. Most of the people I know who own horses are quite realistic about it, you do it for the love of the horses, not for the money.

Horses in my experience, seemed to exhibit different intelligence levels depending on who owned and/or trained them.

So true !

Hobby ownership of horses is kind of like having a racehorse, a farm in Thailand, a Thai wife/family etc. You better have the money to support them and dont depend on any positive monetary contribution from them.

Definitely agree with you. But I don't believe the cost of ownership in Isaan will be too high. Beside I already have two of the "items" in your list ...

[jeanno]

there is a racing field in khon kaen ... they normally run the saturday and sunday ...

[Gary A]

An ostrich has a very small brain. A horse has a large brain. Apparently brain size has little to do with intelligence. A horse is the second stupidest animal on earth after the ostrich.

I would strongly suggest that you look up some info on the intelligence of horses before making such statements. Not fighting, just being friendly.

Maybe I should qualify my remarks. I HAD horses and have many stories. Perhaps just my horses were stupid or maybe at least one of them was crazy.

[gwynt]

Having owned many horses for various equine disciplines, I very much doubt that this is economically viable, unless they are ignoring the interest of the animal in which case it would not be much good to do anything.

Definitively agree with you. Most of the people I know who own horses are quite realistic about it, you do it for the love of the horses, not for the money.

Horses in my experience, seemed to exhibit different intelligence levels depending on who owned and/or trained them.

So true !

Hobby ownership of horses is kind of like having a racehorse, a farm in Thailand, a Thai wife/family etc. You better have the money to support them and dont depend on any positive monetary contribution from them.

Definitely agree with you. But I don't believe the cost of ownership in Isaan will be too high. Beside I already have two of the "items" in your list ...

If the locals were to discover that they taste good might create some interest.

Just an aside I have ridden horses all my time in UK supported many more on behalf of my daughter, blo*dy expensive, only eaten them occasionally when they realy pis*ed me off

[Saiyan]

Maybe I should qualify my remarks. I HAD horses and have many stories. Perhaps just my horses were stupid or maybe at least one of them was crazy.

OK crazy and mean, yes absolutely. I once bought a so called unrideable black stallion that attempted to kill me in several different ways when I first got him. Some of the methods he used were quite ingenious. Later used him for show jumping, eventing and after for polo. Many other stories about the clever things that not only my horses have done that were not trained to do, but like you I have many that are mean and nasty also.

Having had some horses yourself, you would then be well qualified to agree that they are not cheap to maintain even when they are not in use. The Interior Minister is deluded if he thinks he can sell this idea and that this project is going to work without some subsidy from them. No way has he thought of that and even less chance that they will do it.

It might even be cheaper to use petrol, not to mention the difference in speed. (not that speed really matters)

Talk about going backwards.

[ETC]

Hope I'm not intruding here but wanted to make a comment or two.

Having been raised with assorted draft and riding horses and a large number of mules, I find the mule far better for a variety of tasks.

Whether pulling a wagon, working the fields, riding or as a pack animal I think the mule is far superior. It is my personal opinion that mules are stronger, tougher, exceptionally sure footed and well suited for a productive life in Isaan.

To take this one step further, I would prefer riding a mule, verses a horse on the Thai highways, even though I would look better riding a fancy hot blooded horse.

I've seen many a mule kick a fly off their ear with one of their sharp hind hoofs. It conjures up visions of mounted Thai police riding mules writing tickets and enforcing crowd control.

Many people think mules are stubborn (as the saying "stubborn as a mule"), but I think they are quite smart. When the load they are carrying or pullingis to heavy, or if they are too tired and need to rest, they just sit down.

They also make great guards too. Have seen mules kill mountain lions, wolves and even a bear once. Not to mention a score of coyotes.

Have been considering mules in LOS for sometime now and maybe one day soon I will make the leap. Could start a whole new industry in LOS, with everything from tack to farm equipment. The mule, like the buffalo, may not always be user friendly but they are definately environmentally friendly.

Edited June 20, 2008 by ETC

[ETC]

Maybe I should qualify my remarks. I HAD horses and have many stories. Perhaps just my horses were stupid or maybe at least one of them was crazy.

OK crazy and mean, yes absolutely. I once bought a so called unrideable black stallion that attempted to kill me in several different ways when I first got him. Some of the methods he used were quite ingenious. Later used him for show jumping, eventing and after for polo. Many other stories about the clever things that not only my horses have done that were not trained to do, but like you I have many that are mean and nasty also.

Having had some horses yourself, you would then be well qualified to agree that they are not cheap to maintain even when they are not in use. The Interior Minister is deluded if he thinks he can sell this idea and that this project is going to work without some subsidy from them. No way has he thought of that and even less chance that they will do it.

It might even be cheaper to use petrol, not to mention the difference in speed. (not that speed really matters)

Talk about going backwards.

Yup....you're right.. Who would want to go backwards. Just think, back when the air was to fresh, the water was to pure and life was just to darn slow. Why would we want to give up all this for that....

[Pierrot]

Hope I'm not intruding here but wanted to make a comment or two.

Having been raised with assorted draft and riding horses and a large number of mules, I find the mule far better for a variety of tasks.

Whether pulling a wagon, working the fields, riding or as a pack animal I think the mule is far superior. It is my personal opinion that mules are stronger, tougher, exceptionally sure footed and well suited for a productive life in Isaan.

To take this one step further, I would prefer riding a mule, verses a horse on the Thai highways, even though I would look better riding a fancy hot blooded horse.

I've seen many a mule kick a fly off their ear with one of their sharp hind hoofs. It conjures up visions of mounted Thai police riding mules writing tickets and enforcing crowd control.

Many people think mules are stubborn (as the saying "stubborn as a mule"), but I think they are quite smart. When the load they are carrying or pullingis to heavy, or if they are too tired and need to rest, they just sit down.

They also make great guards too. Have seen mules kill mountain lions, wolves and even a bear once. Not to mention a score of coyotes.

Have been considering mules in LOS for sometime now and maybe one day soon I will make the leap. Could start a whole new industry in LOS, with everything from tack to farm equipment. The mule, like the buffalo, may not always be user friendly but they are definately environmentally friendly.

Thanks for sharing these very interesting thoughts.

We are "city" people (Bangkok, HongKong). We have no family link with Isan. The reason we bought a piece of land near Korat is because of my childhood dream to one day own horses. The problem with horses is, as people mentionned above, if they are not properly taken care of, they can go back very fast to wild, even dangerous.We'd been offered two young thai horses and we had to say no because of this reason.

I don't believe horses are so expensive to maintain, especially in Isan. I'm sure having a big bike is probably a more expensive hobby. But it's a 24/7 commitment. You can park you bike in a warehouse for two month when travelling oversea, you can't do that with a horse. I'll follow up on that on an other thread.

The situation is now we won't have horses until we can be fully committed to take care of them, which means retirement and unfortunately we still have 10-15 years to go before we can think about it.

Now you're talking about mule. I also remember watching something on TV, I think it was in the south of France, where they use donkeys to clear the forest to prevent fire. Our problem is we have now around 15 rais that are booked for my horses and that are invaded by wild grass ... Our caretaker, who's never short of ideas to have someone else doing the job for which he is paid, suggest we bought a couple of cows to maintain this land. But now, thinking about it, why not a mule or a donkey? Furthermore they get along quite well with horses, so we don't have to make a choice in the future on what to do with them when we don't need them anymore.

What do you think ?Is it a realistic option ? And if so, any idea where to find mules or donkeys ?

[slapout]

On the drive north of Chiang Mai on 107, north of Mai Rim there is a army camp which has horses (20 to 30).I have noticed they also have some mules. This was a year or so ago but last week I saw they still had a lot of horses so mules may be around somewhere.

[Saiyan]

Thanks for sharing these very interesting thoughts.

We are "city" people (Bangkok, HongKong). We have no family link with Isan. The reason we bought a piece of land near Korat is because of my childhood dream to one day own horses. The problem with horses is, as people mentionned above, if they are not properly taken care of, they can go back very fast to wild, even dangerous.We'd been offered two young thai horses and we had to say no because of this reason.

I don't believe horses are so expensive to maintain, especially in Isan. I'm sure having a big bike is probably a more expensive hobby. But it's a 24/7 commitment. You can park you bike in a warehouse for two month when travelling oversea, you can't do that with a horse. I'll follow up on that on an other thread.

The situation is now we won't have horses until we can be fully committed to take care of them, which means retirement and unfortunately we still have 10-15 years to go before we can think about it.

Now you're talking about mule. I also remember watching something on TV, I think it was in the south of France, where they use donkeys to clear the forest to prevent fire. Our problem is we have now around 15 rais that are booked for my horses and that are invaded by wild grass ... Our caretaker, who's never short of ideas to have someone else doing the job for which he is paid, suggest we bought a couple of cows to maintain this land. But now, thinking about it, why not a mule or a donkey? Furthermore they get along quite well with horses, so we don't have to make a choice in the future on what to do with them when we don't need them anymore.

What do you think ?Is it a realistic option ? And if so, any idea where to find mules or donkeys ?

I don’t know where you would find either mules or donkeys in LOS, but if you have a few female horses (mares) and a male donkey they will produce sterile mules.

Donkeys have been used to train Brahman bulls which can be very aggressive and almost 3 times the size of the donkey. This they do by tying the two together with a 6 to 8 meter thick rope. At first the bull will jump around and try to get away but soon learns that the donkey will not budge. Later the bull will only drink water when the donkey feels like it and after a week you can lead the bull around on a short rope and he will follow obediently.

Horses will, I think be cheaper to maintain in LOS but bear in mind the cost and availability of farriers, or learn to shoe the horse yourself. (Back breaking stuff) Vet bills can also add up with the horses needing annual inoculations.(again you can do this yourself). Unless you want pot belly horses you will have to buy food pellets as a daily meal. Not to mention that they may need to be exercised and groomed on a daily basis. Proper stabling with soft bedding cleaned daily is also required. A lot of hard work and an almost full time job.

Donkeys on the other hand are very hardy. They need none of the above and certainly would be a far better proposition for working, pulling carts and any other tasks.

Best of luck with your future venture, at least you have enough time to ponder the pro’s and con’s.

[ETC]

Hope I'm not intruding here but wanted to make a comment or two.

Having been raised with assorted draft and riding horses and a large number of mules, I find the mule far better for a variety of tasks.

Whether pulling a wagon, working the fields, riding or as a pack animal I think the mule is far superior. It is my personal opinion that mules are stronger, tougher, exceptionally sure footed and well suited for a productive life in Isaan.

To take this one step further, I would prefer riding a mule, verses a horse on the Thai highways, even though I would look better riding a fancy hot blooded horse.

I've seen many a mule kick a fly off their ear with one of their sharp hind hoofs. It conjures up visions of mounted Thai police riding mules writing tickets and enforcing crowd control.

Many people think mules are stubborn (as the saying "stubborn as a mule"), but I think they are quite smart. When the load they are carrying or pullingis to heavy, or if they are too tired and need to rest, they just sit down.

They also make great guards too. Have seen mules kill mountain lions, wolves and even a bear once. Not to mention a score of coyotes.

Have been considering mules in LOS for sometime now and maybe one day soon I will make the leap. Could start a whole new industry in LOS, with everything from tack to farm equipment. The mule, like the buffalo, may not always be user friendly but they are definately environmentally friendly.

Thanks for sharing these very interesting thoughts.

We are "city" people (Bangkok, HongKong). We have no family link with Isan. The reason we bought a piece of land near Korat is because of my childhood dream to one day own horses. The problem with horses is, as people mentionned above, if they are not properly taken care of, they can go back very fast to wild, even dangerous.We'd been offered two young thai horses and we had to say no because of this reason.

I don't believe horses are so expensive to maintain, especially in Isan. I'm sure having a big bike is probably a more expensive hobby. But it's a 24/7 commitment. You can park you bike in a warehouse for two month when travelling oversea, you can't do that with a horse. I'll follow up on that on an other thread.

The situation is now we won't have horses until we can be fully committed to take care of them, which means retirement and unfortunately we still have 10-15 years to go before we can think about it.

Now you're talking about mule. I also remember watching something on TV, I think it was in the south of France, where they use donkeys to clear the forest to prevent fire. Our problem is we have now around 15 rais that are booked for my horses and that are invaded by wild grass ... Our caretaker, who's never short of ideas to have someone else doing the job for which he is paid, suggest we bought a couple of cows to maintain this land. But now, thinking about it, why not a mule or a donkey? Furthermore they get along quite well with horses, so we don't have to make a choice in the future on what to do with them when we don't need them anymore.

What do you think ?Is it a realistic option ? And if so, any idea where to find mules or donkeys ?

pierrot

There is a lot one should know before owning a horse, mule or donkey(I prefer the mule however). Here is just a little information to get you started.

The problems in horses are more severe than in cattle because horses lack the four-chambered stomach, including the rumen.

I regularly feed my horses and mules prairie hay, alfalfa and small amounts of grain.

It is a good idea to fence pasture into three areas. One third can be used while the remainder is rested or used for hay. Removing dung from the pasture will reduce contamination by worm eggs.

The working donkey and mule will need 1 kg of concentrate feed in addition to grazing and hay. Working horses will need 2 kg of concentrate feed in addition to their grazing and hay. A heavy working horse can require 4 kg of concentrate.

Millet, corn, barley, rice and maize are good concentrate feeds for equines, crushed oats can be fed in small amounts. Barley is very useful and can be fed crushed or the whole grain can be fed after it has been boiled and allowed to cool. Barley makes a good feed if it is left to soak in water overnight then drained and fed with the addition of a handful of salt. When a horse is fed barley whole grains in the dung will indicate that the animal has a tooth problem and is not chewing its food properly.

These are just a few things equine owners should know and practice to have healthy and productive animals..

[bina]

some differences between donkeys and horses: use of water, hoof care (donkeys are easier, dont need to be shoed, suffer less from most hoof diseases although can also founder and get white line disease (not sure what its called in english), need less rich forage and do forage better then most horses i.e. eat more 'junk' leaves, twigs etc also... tend to colic less although when they do, the survival rate is supposedly not as good (could be cause here in the middle east, when a donkey colics, no one bothers to treat it, or notice it until its too late, whereas a horse costs money so is stabled and not turned out to fend for itself, and gets a vet to check it ); ther are other things that equine and livestock vets can say about the difference, cant remember right now;

there are several types of donkeys from the huge egyptian ones to the small sicilian ones; each with its own drawbacks and plusses. there are several colours to choose from, an all white one being expensive, the gray ones with white chins and chest (egyptian), the grey with stiped back, greay with striped back and legs, and the rusty grey , the black....

ier re behavior is different. donekys are oral creatures, therefore the 'biting' : they bite each other, nip and lip much more then a horse, as a form of communication.

in general, after having at one point at least 12 females and one ery large and handsome male, i've come to really like them. also, unlike horses no one around here steals them...

bina

[ETC]

some differences between donkeys and horses: use of water, hoof care (donkeys are easier, dont need to be shoed, suffer less from most hoof diseases although can also founder and get white line disease (not sure what its called in english), need less rich forage and do forage better then most horses i.e. eat more 'junk' leaves, twigs etc also... tend to colic less although when they do, the survival rate is supposedly not as good (could be cause here in the middle east, when a donkey colics, no one bothers to treat it, or notice it until its too late, whereas a horse costs money so is stabled and not turned out to fend for itself, and gets a vet to check it ); ther are other things that equine and livestock vets can say about the difference, cant remember right now;

there are several types of donkeys from the huge egyptian ones to the small sicilian ones; each with its own drawbacks and plusses. there are several colours to choose from, an all white one being expensive, the gray ones with white chins and chest (egyptian), the grey with stiped back, greay with striped back and legs, and the rusty grey , the black....

ier re behavior is different. donekys are oral creatures, therefore the 'biting' : they bite each other, nip and lip much more then a horse, as a form of communication.

in general, after having at one point at least 12 females and one ery large and handsome male, i've come to really like them. also, unlike horses no one around here steals them...

bina

No one considering buying a mule should miss checking this out.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/mulelion.asp

[ETC]

some differences between donkeys and horses: use of water, hoof care (donkeys are easier, dont need to be shoed, suffer less from most hoof diseases although can also founder and get white line disease (not sure what its called in english), need less rich forage and do forage better then most horses i.e. eat more 'junk' leaves, twigs etc also... tend to colic less although when they do, the survival rate is supposedly not as good (could be cause here in the middle east, when a donkey colics, no one bothers to treat it, or notice it until its too late, whereas a horse costs money so is stabled and not turned out to fend for itself, and gets a vet to check it ); ther are other things that equine and livestock vets can say about the difference, cant remember right now;

there are several types of donkeys from the huge egyptian ones to the small sicilian ones; each with its own drawbacks and plusses. there are several colours to choose from, an all white one being expensive, the gray ones with white chins and chest (egyptian), the grey with stiped back, greay with striped back and legs, and the rusty grey , the black....

ier re behavior is different. donekys are oral creatures, therefore the 'biting' : they bite each other, nip and lip much more then a horse, as a form of communication.

in general, after having at one point at least 12 females and one ery large and handsome male, i've come to really like them. also, unlike horses no one around here steals them...

bina

bina

Good post. Here is a site that will explain "White line desease" ... http://petcaretips.net/white_line_disease.html

[Pierrot]

Thanks for all the information. I have a more "technical" question but it seems I'm in the right place.

How to check if the grass is suitable for a donkey or a mule, I've not yet made up my mind?

Edit for irrelevant example

Edited June 23, 2008 by Pierrot