Gun

[kenai]

There is nothing wrong with owning a gun. Nor is it flat-out illegal here.

There are likely allot of people out there who have never had the right to own one. And they have never learned to safely handle or fire one. I think allot of these folks just automatically feel guns are bad. I disagree.

Where I'm from most people own firearms and they are mostly law abiding people. Where some people here come from only the criminals are armed and they live fearing criminals and guns. I had an intruder break into my house a few years ago and the situation ended with him at gun-point, we safely disarmed him of his butcher knife and the police responded professionally.

I feel safer having a firearm in the house. My wife has learned to shoot and she is actually a great shot - a natural really. And we both enjoy shooting. I hope I will never need to use or point a gun at anyone again. But I feel better to be prepared.

If anyone does decide to get a gun - please get the proper training, as well as permitting keep it locked and store the ammunition separately.

Just my thoughts.

[rixalex]

There is nothing wrong with owning a gun. Nor is it flat-out illegal here.

There are likely allot of people out there who have never had the right to own one. And they have never learned to safely handle or fire one. I think allot of these folks just automatically feel guns are bad. I disagree.

Where I'm from most people own firearms and they are mostly law abiding people. Where some people here come from only the criminals are armed and they live fearing criminals and guns. I had an intruder break into my house a few years ago and the situation ended with him at gun-point, we safely disarmed him of his butcher knife and the police responded professionally.

I feel safer having a firearm in the house. My wife has learned to shoot and she is actually a great shot - a natural really. And we both enjoy shooting. I hope I will never need to use or point a gun at anyone again. But I feel better to be prepared.

If anyone does decide to get a gun - please get the proper training, as well as permitting keep it locked and store the ammunition separately.

Just my thoughts.

The problem i have with what you are saying is that you seem to speak of gun training as being a one-off thing that you do when you first acquire it. When was the last time kenai that you or your wife were trained by a professional?

People who use guns as part of their living, like police and soldiers, have on-going training and not only in the aiming and firing side of it, but in all-round dealing of life-threatening situations. This equips them with a host of skills needed for spilt-second decision making under extreme stress.

Although i am against the public being armed, if laws allow it, these people should at least be trained to this level and maintained at this level by taking frequent refresher courses.

[madjbs]

Not at all, but as I said previously its ILLEGAL for a ferang to own a gun in this country we chose to live in.

Police bad people No! but you pay peanuts and get monkeys.

Dave

Why do you continually post miss-information on these forums?

[coventry]

Although i am against the public being armed, if laws allow it, these people should at least be trained to this level and maintained at this level by taking frequent refresher courses.

Who's to say we aren't. There's many gun club and ranges in Thailand. 'Kenai' has said "My wife has learned....." I assume by a competant person". 'rixalex' your assuming.

[kenai]

There is nothing wrong with owning a gun. Nor is it flat-out illegal here.

There are likely allot of people out there who have never had the right to own one. And they have never learned to safely handle or fire one. I think allot of these folks just automatically feel guns are bad. I disagree.

Where I'm from most people own firearms and they are mostly law abiding people. Where some people here come from only the criminals are armed and they live fearing criminals and guns. I had an intruder break into my house a few years ago and the situation ended with him at gun-point, we safely disarmed him of his butcher knife and the police responded professionally.

I feel safer having a firearm in the house. My wife has learned to shoot and she is actually a great shot - a natural really. And we both enjoy shooting. I hope I will never need to use or point a gun at anyone again. But I feel better to be prepared.

If anyone does decide to get a gun - please get the proper training, as well as permitting keep it locked and store the ammunition separately.

Just my thoughts.

The problem i have with what you are saying is that you seem to speak of gun training as being a one-off thing that you do when you first acquire it. When was the last time kenai that you or your wife were trained by a professional?

People who use guns as part of their living, like police and soldiers, have on-going training and not only in the aiming and firing side of it, but in all-round dealing of life-threatening situations. This equips them with a host of skills needed for spilt-second decision making under extreme stress.

Although i am against the public being armed, if laws allow it, these people should at least be trained to this level and maintained at this level by taking frequent refresher courses.

I have gone through four different classes over the years the last one about 2 years ago - I'm 35 so I feel its ongoing. I shoot and hunt so for me ownership is a hobbly and recreation. About 10 years ago I trained high school students for several years voluntarily and am still certified to do so in the US. I have been so far my wifes only instructor, and she has never fired a hand-gun nor will she until trained. If a person goes through refresher classes all the better. Like driving it is a skill that should be practiced and refreshed. Shooting frequently is definitely a key.

There is training in Chiang Mai at the 700 Year Club and Im sure in other places around Thailand as well. I do not think these are geared towards self defense but at least proper handling and shooting is taught. There are seminars and training offered in Bkk and Pataya for self defense with handguns.

I live in a state that has possibly the least firearm regulation of the 50, and we see no more violence with firearms then the other 50. We require absolutely no permit to buy, own or carry a concealed handgun or shotgun/rifle. I feel no more or less safe when I am in Canada, where I believe most citizens cannot own a handgun.

My wife and I both feel less safe in Thailand - but its not likely due to this topic.

Edited May 6, 2009 by kenai

[Dave the Dude]

Why do you continually post miss-information on these forums?

My apologies to you madjbs, I must have read the following wrongly.........

An overview of the framework is below, though despite this plethora, the trade in illegal small arms is often acknowledged to be widespread.

•Firearms, Ammunition, Explosive Articles and Fireworks and Imitation of Firearms Act, B.E. 2490 (1947)

•Munitions of War Control Act, B.E. 2530 (1987)

•Decree on the Export Control of Armaments and Material, B.E. 2535 (1992)

•Order of the National Administrator Reform Committee No.37 (October 1976)

•Ministerial Regulation No.12 (1981), issued under the Firearms, Ammunitions, Explosives, Fireworks and Firearm Equivalents Act 1947

•Ministerial Regulation No.1 (1977), issued under the Order of the National Administrative Reform Committee No. 37

•Ministerial Regulation No.2 (1977), issued under the Order of the National Administrative Reform Committee No. 37

•Ministerial Regulation No.3 (1977), issued under the Order of the National Administrative Reform Committee No. 37

•Ministerial Regulation No.4 (1977), issued under the Order of the National 3

•Administrative Reform Committee No. 37

•Act Controlling Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, Fireworks and Imitation of Firearms No.4 (1967)

•Notification of the Ministry of Interior. Appointment of Registrars, Officers and Officials under the Firearms, Ammunitions, Explosives, Fireworks and Imitation of Firearms Act 1947

In summary, a foreigner in Thailand is unable to carry a firearm, without express permission, which is very rarely granted. For a Thai citizen, they must show themselves to be good members of the community, show cause for issuance of the licence, and I seem to recall show or pay a specific sum {see below} for a firearm licence to be provided. As in other countries the regulations specify class of weapon, including shot-guns, small bore rifles, hand guns etc..

From a report submitted by the Thai authorities to the UN, in 2005:-

Any person who desires to possess small arms (pistols) must obtain permission from the authorities concerned. In Bangkok, the Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police is

responsible for granting permit licenses of gun possession. An inter-agency, committee, comprising agencies such as the Office of Narcotics Control Board, the Ministry of

Interior, the Ministry of Defence, the Office of the Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police, will be set up to verify the qualification of each applicant. Then, the persons

who have authority to grant permit license are the Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police and provincial governors. Permit licenses can be cancelled any time when the licensee is proven to have committed a crime or to have used guns inappropriately. The person whose license was cancelled will never be granted a permit license again.

The Ministry of Interior released the ministerial order on 29 May 2003 to suspend the permit license granting for all types of rifle temporarily due to the increasing number of

crime cases caused by small arms and according to the government policy to suppress firearms, illegal arms, and organised crime. Such authorisation must be given by the

Minister of Defence.

For a civilian who wishes to obtain a possessing license, he/she has to be over 35 years old and possess a saving account more than 1 million Baht at least 6 months. In case an

applicant for a permit license owns a business or is a company manager, the registered capital must be at least 10 million Baht. In addition, this act states that any government officer who desires to carry government issued guns and ammunitions out of the office in a non-emergency case has to ask for permission from the head of the agency, and must have the letter of permission at hand.

The Ministry of Interior has proposed new Amnesty Act to exempt penalties to any person possessing illegal arms in order to help reduce the number of illegal arms possession in the country. At present, this Act has not yet been endorsed but is in the final review process.{2005, don't recall that it happened} However, Thailand has enacted the Amnesty Acts six times in the past, namely, in 1948, 1958, 1975, 1987, 1992 and 2000.

[rixalex]

Although i am against the public being armed, if laws allow it, these people should at least be trained to this level and maintained at this level by taking frequent refresher courses.

Who's to say we aren't. There's many gun club and ranges in Thailand. 'Kenai' has said "My wife has learned....." I assume by a competant person". 'rixalex' your assuming.

Coventry, the point i was making wasn't just in respect to Kenai - it was regarding all gun owners in Thailand. And it also wasn't only concerning the sort of skills you might be able to pick up at a gun club.

When you are awarded a gun license is there any requirement by law that you be trained both regularly and in skills not only restricted to aiming and shooting, but in terms of the broader sense of dealing with life and death situations? The answer to that is "no", and if people do insist on bringing guns into our communities it should be "yes".

[madjbs]

Yes you did miss-read it. Nowhere does it say it is illegal for a foreigner to own a firearm.

[oldsparrow]

Sir, Don't be misled, you guys should visit: It's the best Thai gun website

Why, Ferangs cannot own guns (this is not the sporting section) Dave

In fact you can, you have to go through the same process with extra document:

1. Recommendation letter from your embassy presenting the need.

2. Recommendation letter from Thai agency, preferably the security one.

My UN counterpart asked me on gun buying few years ago. My Departmental-level boss agreed to issue the letter but he never came back with the Embassy one.

[oldsparrow]

Sir, Don't be misled, you guys should visit: It's the best Thai gun website

Why, Ferangs cannot own guns (this is not the sporting section) Dave

In fact you can, you have to go through the same process with extra document:

1. Recommendation letter from your embassy presenting the need.

2. Recommendation letter from Thai agency, preferably the security one.

My UN counterpart asked me on gun buying few years ago. My Departmental-level boss agreed to issue the letter but he never came back with the Embassy one.

[coventry]

Although i am against the public being armed, if laws allow it, these people should at least be trained to this level and maintained at this level by taking frequent refresher courses.

Who's to say we aren't. There's many gun club and ranges in Thailand. 'Kenai' has said "My wife has learned....." I assume by a competant person". 'rixalex' your assuming.

Coventry, the point i was making wasn't just in respect to Kenai - it was regarding all gun owners in Thailand. And it also wasn't only concerning the sort of skills you might be able to pick up at a gun club.

When you are awarded a gun license is there any requirement by law that you be trained both regularly and in skills not only restricted to aiming and shooting, but in terms of the broader sense of dealing with life and death situations? The answer to that is "no", and if people do insist on bringing guns into our communities it should be "yes".

Do criminals undergo the fine art of gun management ? I suppose not. It's criminals who bring guns into our communities, are they bound by laws ? Yes they are, but they choose to ignor them, so why must I be restricted ? They aren't. Even with the best training one can never be sure that one will act according to how one has been trained.

[rixalex]

It's criminals who bring guns into our communities, are they bound by laws ? Yes they are, but they choose to ignor them, so why must I be restricted ? They aren't.

You are joking right?!!! Criminals ignore the laws so we should all have the right to do the same??!!!

Thanks for the chuckle.

[coventry]

It's criminals who bring guns into our communities, are they bound by laws ? Yes they are, but they choose to ignor them, so why must I be restricted ? They aren't.

You are joking right?!!! Criminals ignore the laws so we should all have the right to do the same??!!!

Thanks for the chuckle.

You may chuckle 'rixalex', but when I got burgled the first time, the guy was in our bedroom whilst we were asleep. A local cop gave me a hand gun for personal protection, no paper work. He told me that if I was to shoot someone with it, 1500 Baht will sort it out. So no, I'm not joking, and neither was the cop. There isn't a local cop, where I live, that would arrest you for committing an illegal act on someone that was trying to break into your house.

'Rixalex', in Thailand you have a legal right to remove anyone that steps one foot on your property without permission. And I don't believe there's such a thing as 'minimim force' as per farang countries. Enjoy you chuckle and I hope you never get turned over, but if you did I'm sure you'd act within the law ?

Edited May 8, 2009 by coventry

[rixalex]

I hope you never get turned over, but if you did I'm sure you'd act within the law ?

Thanks for your concern mate but i can assure you it's not needed. I choose to live in a safe environment and don't live in fear of bedroom intruders. Of course you'll tell me that nowhere is completely safe and you'd be right, but then driving a car isn't completely safe but we all do it - it's what you call a calculated risk.

Coventry, if you put your safety and that of your family first, why haven't you moved somewhere safer?

[coventry]

I hope you never get turned over, but if you did I'm sure you'd act within the law ?

Thanks for your concern mate but i can assure you it's not needed. I choose to live in a safe environment and don't live in fear of bedroom intruders. Of course you'll tell me that nowhere is completely safe and you'd be right, but then driving a car isn't completely safe but we all do it - it's what you call a calculated risk.

Coventry, if you put your safety and that of your family first, why haven't you moved somewhere safer?

'Rixalex' you answered your question yourself "nowhere is completely safe". I actually do live in a peaceful rural Isaan village. The thing is that the burglars don't burgle in their own area, they move around. If they just stayed in their own area they'd over fish the waters, so to speak. Plus the police would know where to find them.

[rixalex]

'Rixalex' you answered your question yourself "nowhere is completely safe". I actually do live in a peaceful rural Isaan village.

Someone broke into your house and entered your bedroom, which made you decide to arm yourself for protection. Hmmm, well to me, that doesn't sound like a peaceful area.

Where criminals come from makes no difference - if they are commiting crime in your area then it's your area that is dangerous - not the area that the criminals come from.

"Nowhere is completely safe" doesn't answer the question because as i stated, some areas are more dangerous than others. I choose to live in an area where the risk is small enough to not require having a gun in my home. Is there still a risk? No doubt the doom-mongers amongst us would say so, but just as i drive a car despite the risk of accident on the basis that the advantages outweigh the risks, i choose to not bring a gun into my home as the advantages of not bringing more lethal weapons into society outweighs the risks of not having deadly protection from an attacker.

For you, you have obviously calculated that all the negative issues regarding bringing a gun into your local community and the sanctity of your home are outweighed by the positives of being able to kill an intruder should you need to. That tells me that either you don't care much about the negative issues, or that the risk you face is very real. If it is the later, you should put your family first and move them somewhere safer. And before you say it, yes i know, completely safe places don't exist, but safer places do.

[coventry]

Someone broke into your house and entered your bedroom, which made you decide to arm yourself for protection. Hmmm, well to me, that doesn't sound like a peaceful area.

If you go through the previous threads you will find that I never mentioned once that I 'decided to arm myself for protection'. I was once given a gun by a policeman. I never said I took it. We currently have a gun in the house, but it's not a defensive weapon. It's a rifle that I use for target shooting. I have never indicated, or said, that I have a gun to defend my property. You're in too much of a hurry 'rixalex', in trying to make someone look stupid. Slow down, check your facts, and then you won't make yourself to be as dumb as you appear.

I've just checked as to where you live, Bangkok. So Bangkok is a safer place to live than rural Isaan ? I'll bear it in mind if I have to move. Thanks

Edited May 9, 2009 by coventry

[rixalex]

I was once given a gun by a policeman. I never said I took it.

Well then you weren't given a gun, you were offered one.

So Bangkok is a safer place to live than rural Isaan ?

Hard for me to say as i've never lived in Isaan. What i do know is that i feel very safe where i am and have never considered the need to have a gun. If i ever did, i would move immediately - and it would be a very easy decision.

[oldsparrow]

When you join any shooting class in Thailand. They ask for copies of your ID card and residnet registration. And of course, a signed statement that you won't sue them if accident happens..

I don't think many criminals are attracted to it.

Even if there few criminals got trained, many more trained good guys outweights the bad effect.

[Pikey]

I'm probably gonna regret this but here goes:

My wife just got her license to own a shotgun and the very helpful shop here in Chiang Mai wanted a copy of her ID card, copy of Tabien Baan, copy of our business registration certificate and 6,500THB for the license fee as a one off payment. She's over 35.

No-one in authority visited our house or interviewed my wife. Price for a new Remington 870 Express 5 shot pump action was 37,000THB and a box of 25 cartridges (Czech made Sellier & Bellot "00") run to 1050THB. Whole process took about a month.

We're both off to the 700 year stadium range tomorrow to get familiar with the weapon as I (farang) am legally allowed to use it but only in the presence of my wife. I cannot transport it e.t.c without my wife being present but assume that I don't have to sit on the front step of the house if my wife goes out and the gun is inside.

Cheers,

Pikey.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Pikey

[chuckd]

Thanks for the information, Pikey.

Stay safe.

[Abrak]

I am sorry for asking a question that is almost certainly answered in this thread but it is bloody long.

1. I know farangs cant own guns.

2. I know that Thais can with the necessary permits.

However, is it illegal for a farang to use a gun belonging to someone else. Again I realize that if you shoot someone and kill them you might be charged with murder, so in that sense it is illegal (or numerous others).

My assumption would be that it is fine to use someone elses weapon so long as you do not commit an illegal act with it.

BTW to the extent I pay for a weapon for my GF (apart from perhaps being extremely foolish) I assume it doesnt make me liable for any illegal act she does with it.

[Pikey]

Chuckd, thanks for the "stay safe" and that is exactly what I intend to do. There has been a lot of "opinions" in this thread, but you, "Heng", "Kenai", "oldsparrow" and "gpdjohn", all stand out as voices of reason when it comes to the topic of gun ownership here. Sure, the gun is in my wife's name, as is the house (with usufruct contract), but "we" are a unit and value everything that my previous 25 years of hard work have bought for us here. We're not flash, not rich, but probably considered affluent by our neighbours in the small village that we live in. Most people respect that but some may resent and be jealous of what we have and want it for themselves, without putting in the effort, particularly in these difficult financial times.

My dear departed mum used to emphasise the phrase "insure to be sure" whenever I was considering cutting a corner to save a few quid with motorcycles e.t.c. I look on gun ownership in the same way. Myself and my wife will use the gun at the range for familiarisation and recreational fun, but if it comes down to it and some f*ckhead is removing tiles from my roof in the middle of the night to gain access to my house, I'll shoot first without hesitation and face the consequences later, and in my rare absences, my wife will be trained to do the same. All these bleeding heart anti gun posters can have their opinion but I have bought my house through hard-earned money, am in what I consider a safe area, but times change and I'd rather protect what I have than relocate as I am happy with the wake up calls of the 4am roosters and the 5am dogs!

Cheers & whatever your views, I hope no harm comes to you or your loved ones.

Abrak, read my previous post 1 page back for the current legaleze, at least in CNX,

Pikey.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Pikey

[ricklee]

Wow!! This thread has been alive for a LONG time! I wonder how long ago the OP checked out and if he ever got his gun

[rixalex]

All these bleeding heart anti gun posters can have their opinion

Always the same. If you favour living in a non-armed society you are labeled as "bleeding heart". It's as daft as anti-gun people labeling all gun owners as "trigger happy red necks".

am in what I consider a safe area,

Obviously not if you feel the need for a gun.

[Amsterdam]

Wow!! This thread has been alive for a LONG time! I wonder how long ago the OP checked out and if he ever got his gun

HI Ricklee,

I am the original OP and a shotgun was purchased I guess about a year ago. The whole threat seems to be more about gun control than my question of where to purchase.

I was thinking to open a new thread to discuss different types of ammunition but that would start the rambling on of some people.

Just to stir up the rambling on of people in this threat I have added this video of hollow point bullets recalled that fail to explode targets

happy shooting

Amsterdam

[chuckd]

.... All these bleeding heart anti gun posters can have their opinion but I have bought my house through hard-earned money, am in what I consider a safe area, but times change and I'd rather protect what I have than relocate as I am happy with the wake up calls of the 4am roosters and the 5am dogs!

Pikey.

Why not quote the entire statement? It then explains his original statements and there is no need for clarification from another party.

Makes sense to me.

[rixalex]

The whole threat seems to be more about gun control than my question of where to purchase.

Perhaps your mistake was in thinking that the purchase of a gun and your right to do so (or that of your wife) were in no way connected.

[Livinginexile]

Amsterdam your OP said,

I should have all the legal documents done by the end of this week to own a gun in my wife name.

You seem surprised/offended that people are commenting on this statement rather than your questions - even though you are asking people to advise you on how to break the law.

I will admit to being firmly anti-gun ownership. but that is not the point here. I am sure even most of those law abiding people who admit to supporting gun ownership would be against people obtaining them illegally.

Okay I admit to some people that this sentence could be misleading but there is nothing illegal going on. Simply purchasing a gun with permit for a Thai national.

If I only asked where a gun shop is people would have started the same conversation asking me if all the legal documents are in order and that only Thai people can own guns. So in both cases including or excluding the statement about obtaining a gun permit I will be challenged by people like you. I only wanted to give some background by letting people know that I don't need help obtaining a gun permit and that the gun is for the wife.

I hope this clears the issue up for you that there is nothing illegal going on. Simply asking about location of gun shops and the price of guns.

Cheers

Amsterdam

Unbelievable!!

This guy thinks he is doing nothing wrong!!

"I am buying a gun in my wife's name but I'm not breaking the law" and he believes it!

This will end in tears for all involved.

Garanteed!

[Thaddeus]

happy shooting

Those two words used together are just so wrong.