Airlines Websites

[onzestan]

Interesting Poll on Skytrax today.

http://www.airlinequality.com/main/quickpoll.htm

I have mentioned before on an earlier topic that I'm convinced that airlines purposely withhold vital information from their websites.

That time I received a lot of flack over this assertion.

Good to see I'm not the only one, 71 % of travelers agree with me.

cheers

onzestan

[bkkjames]

Interesting Poll on Skytrax today.

http://www.airlinequality.com/main/quickpoll.htm

I have mentioned before on an earlier topic that I'm convinced that airlines purposely withhold vital information from their websites.

That time I received a lot of flack over this assertion.

Good to see I'm not the only one, 71 % of travelers agree with me.

cheers

onzestan

Now that you are convinced that airlines purposely withhold vital information from their websites A) I wonder what that vital information you are looking for is?

and The poll in your posting is not exactly the same as what you are stating. If I read it correctly, the question in the poll asks "Do airlines put enough info on their websites?" It's a bit different than a question that asks "Do you think airlines purposely withhold information on their websites?"

There is big difference so I would say that you stating that 71% of travellers agree with you is wrong. I would guess of that 71% only 25% are conspiracy driven or paranoid.

[onzestan]

The poll in your posting is not exactly the same as what you are stating. If I read it correctly, the question in the poll asks "Do airlines put enough info on their websites?" It's a bit different than a question that asks "Do you think airlines purposely withhold information on their websites?"

There is big difference so I would say that you stating that 71% of travellers agree with you is wrong. I would guess of that 71% only 25% are conspiracy driven or paranoid.

Most probably my English isn't up to posting on Thai Visa.

I thought that not putting enough info on their website, is the same as withholding info.

Oh well since I'm paranoid, I'll refrain from further comments lest you start pursuing me

cheers

onzestan

[Samuian]

As with most other websites, "download Flash player" Yes/no... some intro nobody really needs - if i need audio/visio entertainment I go to the cinema or a DVD of my choice.

Information as schedules and prices are often many clicks away... some websites like bBangkokair, Seatran.com or Lomprayah make it a riddle to give the traveler, the potential customer the information he/she is looking for - why I wonder - ego trip of the web designer?

[jeffer]

Not quite the same, least not in English so maybe lost in translation.

Not having enough information suggests there is room to add features to make a site more user friendly. Withholding vital information does come across as a little paranoid. Don't know what information you think is being withheld but I imagine there is some information regarding pricing, seating availability etc. that an airline wouldn't want to make public because doing so would also benefit their opposition.

What exactly is the vital information you think is missing from a customer viewpoint on airline websites? If you explain that, then it might be possible to frame a better answer to your question.

I was looking at some domestic airline websites from another country recently and suddenly some Thai based airline websites didn't look so bad I've also found that like some banking sites, some airline websites are best viewed with Internet Explorer.

[onzestan]

Not quite the same, least not in English so maybe lost in translation.

Not having enough information suggests there is room to add features to make a site more user friendly. Withholding vital information does come across as a little paranoid. Don't know what information you think is being withheld but I imagine there is some information regarding pricing, seating availability etc. that an airline wouldn't want to make public because doing so would also benefit their opposition.

What exactly is the vital information you think is missing from a customer viewpoint on airline websites? If you explain that, then it might be possible to frame a better answer to your question.

I was looking at some domestic airline websites from another country recently and suddenly some Thai based airline websites didn't look so bad I've also found that like some banking sites, some airline websites are best viewed with Internet Explorer.

Well since I fly mostly business class, and since seating comfort is paramount to me, I find it nearly impossible to find out on which flights airlines provide flatbed seats and on which not. Seatguru helps a bit and also skytrax, but I do believe that this info should be provided i.o. to make a decision on which company gets my business. I have been to many times disappointed on flights where the business class seats weren't much better than economy and arrived exhausted at my destination having paid a hefty price.

Flatbed seats have been announced on Thai for some years now with much Poohah I might add, but as far as I know not on the aircraft that fly the destinations I'm interested in. This to give you only one example.

Recently Gulf Air (abt 3 months ago) changed their frequent flyer program and the website provides a link to the membership manual, it's a dead link.

I agree that most information can be found on the internet in forums like flyertalk etc. but my point is, the info should be available on their website and in many cases it is not.

Enough said, I don't think I'm paranoid, but in my book, information not provided is information withheld, for whatever reason.

Cheers

onzestan

onzestan

[jeffer]

Then what you're saying is there needs to be additional features on some airline websites. Not providing every bit of information is probably more to do with the website not being able to link to the information without more work being done to the database. It could also be they don't see a demand for the features you are suggesting even though it seems a reasonable enough suggestion to me. If there's a big enough demand from customers for the information you are requesting then eventually they may provide it but for many websites providing such information may not be as simple as adding a few lines of code. Many seemingly simple things are not always simple to implement. All depends on the website and how it links in with other computer systems an airline might be using.

[bkkjames]

Not quite the same, least not in English so maybe lost in translation.

Not having enough information suggests there is room to add features to make a site more user friendly. Withholding vital information does come across as a little paranoid. Don't know what information you think is being withheld but I imagine there is some information regarding pricing, seating availability etc. that an airline wouldn't want to make public because doing so would also benefit their opposition.

What exactly is the vital information you think is missing from a customer viewpoint on airline websites? If you explain that, then it might be possible to frame a better answer to your question.

I was looking at some domestic airline websites from another country recently and suddenly some Thai based airline websites didn't look so bad I've also found that like some banking sites, some airline websites are best viewed with Internet Explorer.

Well since I fly mostly business class, and since seating comfort is paramount to me, I find it nearly impossible to find out on which flights airlines provide flatbed seats and on which not. Seatguru helps a bit and also skytrax, but I do believe that this info should be provided i.o. to make a decision on which company gets my business. I have been to many times disappointed on flights where the business class seats weren't much better than economy and arrived exhausted at my destination having paid a hefty price.

Flatbed seats have been announced on Thai for some years now with much Poohah I might add, but as far as I know not on the aircraft that fly the destinations I'm interested in. This to give you only one example.

Recently Gulf Air (abt 3 months ago) changed their frequent flyer program and the website provides a link to the membership manual, it's a dead link.

I agree that most information can be found on the internet in forums like flyertalk etc. but my point is, the info should be available on their website and in many cases it is not.

Enough said, I don't think I'm paranoid, but in my book, information not provided is information withheld, for whatever reason.

Cheers

onzestan

onzestan

Ok maybe I was a bit hard on you. But looking at your airlines of choice TG and GF, I think the lack of information on their sites is reflection of how well both of them are run. What's that, stop the presses, TG Head is replaced today. As with most things here, the locals are very good at announcing things but are generally not so good at follow through - see Thailand Elite Card, Bangkok Fashion City, Hub of this and that.

The newest planes in TG's hanger are the A340-500's which they bought for the New York route which has now been cancelled. So instead of keeping the planes (yes the ones with flatbeds), they plan to sell them.

As for GF, maybe the cheapest ME carrier around but oh my, those A340's they use on the BK to Bahrain route are the ones the SQ had 16 years ago. IMO that airline is in dire straits since all governements in the region who supported its start up have now pulled out and have their own.

If you go to say Emirates, Ethihad, I think you will find that you can choose your seats on their websites without much problem but then again they are what we might describe as 'premium' carriers that actually make a profit. EK has only 777's in their long haul fleet, and airlines like BA / Qantas use only 747-400's on their routes to here and back. This doesn't change so it's pretty easy to know the seat mapping.

Cheers

[onzestan]

Ok maybe I was a bit hard on you. But looking at your airlines of choice TG and GF, I think the lack of information on their sites is reflection of how well both of them are run. What's that, stop the presses, TG Head is replaced today. As with most things here, the locals are very good at announcing things but are generally not so good at follow through - see Thailand Elite Card, Bangkok Fashion City, Hub of this and that.

The newest planes in TG's hanger are the A340-500's which they bought for the New York route which has now been cancelled. So instead of keeping the planes (yes the ones with flatbeds), they plan to sell them.

As for GF, maybe the cheapest ME carrier around but oh my, those A340's they use on the BK to Bahrain route are the ones the SQ had 16 years ago. IMO that airline is in dire straits since all governements in the region who supported its start up have now pulled out and have their own.

If you go to say Emirates, Ethihad, I think you will find that you can choose your seats on their websites without much problem but then again they are what we might describe as 'premium' carriers that actually make a profit. EK has only 777's in their long haul fleet, and airlines like BA / Qantas use only 747-400's on their routes to here and back. This doesn't change so it's pretty easy to know the seat mapping.

Cheers

Just a bit hard?

My Airlines of choice are not TG and Gulf, I only mentioned these because they were the first that sprang to mind.

As for Emirates used them once, never again. Fine example of very uncomfortable business class seats.(4 years ago)

Etihad (except ground staff) and Qatar are 2 very good airlines, and I would cite the Qatar Website as an example of how it could be.

Also maybe their financial success has something to do with access to cheap fuel?

cheers

onzestan

Edited June 27, 2008 by onzestan

[think_too_mut]

Don't know what information you think is being withheld but I imagine there is some information regarding pricing, seating availability etc. that an airline wouldn't want to make public because doing so would also benefit their opposition.

Just check Singapore Airlines (SQ). Everything there is at the fingertips, chosing a seat on the plane floor plan, even ordering a special meal.

JAL, ANA both do that for flights booked through their sites. The flights could be priced 10-15$ more than from the discounters.

SQ, being the first, has risen the bar for everyone else. They are trashing the opposition, not giving them any bennefit.

Except, the others have to follow or lose customers. That's good for the traveling public.

Edited June 27, 2008 by think_too_mut

[bkkjames]

Ok maybe I was a bit hard on you. But looking at your airlines of choice TG and GF, I think the lack of information on their sites is reflection of how well both of them are run. What's that, stop the presses, TG Head is replaced today. As with most things here, the locals are very good at announcing things but are generally not so good at follow through - see Thailand Elite Card, Bangkok Fashion City, Hub of this and that.

The newest planes in TG's hanger are the A340-500's which they bought for the New York route which has now been cancelled. So instead of keeping the planes (yes the ones with flatbeds), they plan to sell them.

As for GF, maybe the cheapest ME carrier around but oh my, those A340's they use on the BK to Bahrain route are the ones the SQ had 16 years ago. IMO that airline is in dire straits since all governements in the region who supported its start up have now pulled out and have their own.

If you go to say Emirates, Ethihad, I think you will find that you can choose your seats on their websites without much problem but then again they are what we might describe as 'premium' carriers that actually make a profit. EK has only 777's in their long haul fleet, and airlines like BA / Qantas use only 747-400's on their routes to here and back. This doesn't change so it's pretty easy to know the seat mapping.

Cheers

Just a bit hard?

My Airlines of choice are not TG and Gulf, I only mentioned these because they were the first that sprang to mind.

As for Emirates used them once, never again. Fine example of very uncomfortable business class seats.(4 years ago)

Etihad (except ground staff) and Qatar are 2 very good airlines, and I would cite the Qatar Website as an example of how it could be.

Also maybe their financial success has something to do with access to cheap fuel?

cheers

onzestan

I think I mentioned Etihad in my list above. I agree with you on Emirate's business class seats on the Dubai - BKK route. Seems we only get the older gerneration 777's at this point.

Regarding info on websites, if you don't think a particular airline provides you with enough info, then do what I do, call their local office. But you mention an airline like Qatar as a good example and that may well be true. However because of their relatively small fleet consisting of very few models of aircraft, it's much easier (compare to TG that operates over 10 different types) for them to keep their info current.

The problem with airlines like TG, they take so darn long to install new seats across their fleet and because it is relatively quite old compared to others like SQ, theire is no way TG is gonna install new business class seats on 20 year old A300's or even the older 747-400's. And even then it often takes more than a whole year (depending on the size of the fleet) to do the seat changes as this is only generally done when the plane is in for its annual full maintenence check.

Regarding your point about financial success do to cheap fuel, well this may be true for airlines in the ME to a degree, I would suggest to you that it has more to do with the tax structures / landing fees (none payable) combined with their ability to order and pay for their equipment in cash unlike other national carriers around the world that utilize extensive financing.

Anyways, this topic is drifting away from website info to other things. Sounds to me that you are pissed off because you heard about a new lay flat business seat and booked it, yet when you got on the plane you got the old version.

[onzestan]

Sounds to me that you are pissed off because you heard about a new lay flat business seat and booked it, yet when you got on the plane you got the old version.

Dear bkkjames,

Without knowing me you assume a lot about me, one of your assumptions being that I'm NOT a seasoned traveler.

To make it clear, the OP was about following question posed by Skytrax : Do airlines offer enough product information on their websites?

To which 71 percent replied : "No"

So you're clearly one of the 29 percent that said yes. I'm in the other camp.

I don't want this to start being a pissing contest about who knows the most about airline travel, let me assure you I do know how and where to find the information that should be on the websites and isn't for whatever reason, but that's exactly the point, nothing more and nothing less.

cheers

onzestan

Edited June 30, 2008 by onzestan

[bkkjames]

Sounds to me that you are pissed off because you heard about a new lay flat business seat and booked it, yet when you got on the plane you got the old version.

Dear bkkjames,

Without knowing me you assume a lot about me, one of your assumptions being that I'm NOT a seasoned traveler.

To make it clear, the OP was about following question posed by Skytrax : Do airlines offer enough product information on their websites?

To which 71 percent replied : "No"

So you're clearly one of the 29 percent that said yes. I'm in the other camp.

I don't want this to start being a pissing contest about who knows the most about airline travel, let me assure you I do know how and where to find the information that should be on the websites and isn't for whatever reason, but that's exactly the point, nothing more and nothing less.

cheers

onzestan

For my final post on this subject because it is getting old fast, let me just say that while you are entitled to your thoughts about airlines, I don't think you are entitled to say that 71% of the people who replied no in the Skytrax pole agree with you.

Because nowhere in the pole that I have seen did the question ask "do airlines withhold information on their websites on purpose?"

I do think they miss out information due to several reasons (poor management, lack of resources, time, costs etc) but to generalize and say they do it on purpose is a big stretch. Unless of course you feel that hotel chains, car rental companies, banks also are part of this purposeful attempt to ill-inform (un-enlighten) the general public for evil corporate purposes.

Cheers