Stigma

[Cavannagh]

I noticed in another thread someone brought up the issue of stigma that is attached to Thai girls if they are seen with a foreigner. It was getting off-topic but I'm curious to hear more about others peoples experience with this and how they deal with it.

I recently went to Phuket to see my Thai girlfriend. When I got there, I went to meet her at her office in Phuket Town and we went to get some lunch and I noticed the knowing looks from locals. The worst part was when a Tuk-tuk driver started to harass us. He followed us about 50 meters down the street, saying something in Thai, the only word I could recognise was in mid-sentence when he said "Patong"

I am ashamed to admit it but it did get to me...my girlfriend works as an architect and dresses accordingly for the office, she certainly does not look like a bar girl, she's 27 and I'm 29 so we did not look out of place together.

Never had this problem when she was working in Bkk and I would see her.

She did not want to talk about it and I'm curious to hear how some of you handle it. Ignore it? Let it eat you up inside? My apologies if this comes off as something of a rant...I guess there is no answer. Her Oz permanent residence finally came though so atleast I wont have to put up with it for too much longer.

[boiledegg]

Only time ive ever bit was when a English girl walked past me and my bird and said "Love you long time" to me or us, i told her where to go as she carried on walking.

Best to ignore it, and if they are looking at your girl as she is hot enjoy it.

[justcruisin]

Had the same dissaproving looks from overweight,frustrated spinsters when we were out in public areas

on our last sojourn to Australia for 6 months,eighteen months ago.

Obviously a 20 year age gap(51&31) in a partnership is a problem in some peoples bigoted minds.

Probably a combination of jealousy and a very closeted lifestyle on their part.

Keep your head up high and keep walking.

[sriracha john]

Do you pay attention and care so much when a little lap dog is yapping away as if it was of any importance?

It's the same thing.

[Pierrot]

Do you pay attention and care so much when a little lap dog is yapping away as if it was of any importance?

It's the same thing.

Rather selfish comment.

Maybe you don't, maybe she does.

Things are better now we are older, and anyway nowdays we see more and more "real" mix couple and so people get used to it. But a few years back it wasn't always so simple. For a young lady who has always enjoyed being treated with respect when going out, only being suspected of being a prositute is not a nice experience. Especially in her own country. Especially in a conservative society as Thailand used to be.

[tourleadersi]

The only problem I have ever really had was on KSR when I was walking with a very good friend of mine. She is about 10 years my junior, and we have been friends now for over 7 years. A group of 6 backpackers walked passed us, and one of the guys said 'Ffing sex tourist' It stopped me dead in my tracks but my friend just told me to leave it. I called out to the guy and he stopped with his friends, 3 other guys and 2 women. I asked him what he just said and he repeated it to me, right into my face and laughed. I asked him if he realised what he had just done to which we replied 'You what?'

I said that I had lived and worked in Thailand for a number of years, and that my friend was a University graduate who worked in an office nearby. I then asked him if he thought that all Thai women were prostitutes as if he assumed I was a sex tourist then he must have assumed that she was a prostitute. I asked him how he would like it if I called his friends prostitutes. At this point the two women turned on him and started to have a go at his ignorance. I asked him to appologise to my friend and suggested that next time he think before he closeted an entire race of women.

I returned to the UK a while back with my wife for a holiday. I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised at how we never once called out over it. Oh thats right, my very aged (95 years and going pretty strong) went off on one of her Victorian rants about how there were too many inter racial relationships to which I said 'Hang on Gran, we are an inter race relationship'. Poor thing almost died of embarrassment, and I think perhaps there was a lesson learned as she totally adores my wife.

The advice given here to ignore it is well founded. Sometimes you can't, but prudence dictates that we cannot change the world. So long as you are happy, you should be blessed with skin as thick as Rhino hide. If we spent all our time worrying about what other people thought, we would never be happy.

[bkkjames]

The only problem I have ever really had was on KSR when I was walking with a very good friend of mine. She is about 10 years my junior, and we have been friends now for over 7 years. A group of 6 backpackers walked passed us, and one of the guys said 'Ffing sex tourist' It stopped me dead in my tracks but my friend just told me to leave it. I called out to the guy and he stopped with his friends, 3 other guys and 2 women. I asked him what he just said and he repeated it to me, right into my face and laughed. I asked him if he realised what he had just done to which we replied 'You what?'

I said that I had lived and worked in Thailand for a number of years, and that my friend was a University graduate who worked in an office nearby. I then asked him if he thought that all Thai women were prostitutes as if he assumed I was a sex tourist then he must have assumed that she was a prostitute. I asked him how he would like it if I called his friends prostitutes. At this point the two women turned on him and started to have a go at his ignorance. I asked him to appologise to my friend and suggested that next time he think before he closeted an entire race of women.

I returned to the UK a while back with my wife for a holiday. I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised at how we never once called out over it. Oh thats right, my very aged (95 years and going pretty strong) went off on one of her Victorian rants about how there were too many inter racial relationships to which I said 'Hang on Gran, we are an inter race relationship'. Poor thing almost died of embarrassment, and I think perhaps there was a lesson learned as she totally adores my wife.

The advice given here to ignore it is well founded. Sometimes you can't, but prudence dictates that we cannot change the world. So long as you are happy, you should be blessed with skin as thick as Rhino hide. If we spent all our time worrying about what other people thought, we would never be happy.

It still happens to me but how can I say this politely,... it's usually some NE teenage boy or tuk tuk driver with the comments. When they tend to over do it, I just kinda reply back in a loud enough voice (in Thai) for them to lose a little face, isnt my wife beautiful?

Most times I try not to pay much attention cause knowing this crowd, they pretty much gawk at any female hoping for a look back. I am sure nothing impresses the local ladies more than a couple of motorbike boys drinking lao kao prettending to be so cool.

If I feel my blood pressure beginning to rise, I just count to 5 and think to myself that "you know what, who gives a flying saucer about these buffalos, I get to sleep with my beautiful wife every night, while they sit around and count there one baht coins."

[sriracha john]

Do you pay attention and care so much when a little lap dog is yapping away as if it was of any importance?

It's the same thing.

Rather selfish comment.

Maybe you don't, maybe she does.

Rather presumptuous comment.

It was "she" who enlightened "me" on precisely that line of thinking.

[GuestHouse]

These assumptions come directly as a consequence of the Thai sex industry. For a couple of generations now this has been the starting point of most Thai/Foreign relationships and continues to be so.

While the Thai sex industry remains so prevalent and while large numbers of foreign men continue to visit Thailand specifically because of the sex industry these views and attitudes will continue.

It is my guess they will continue for a further generation after that.

As noted, these attitudes are from within Thailand and from foreigners visiting Thailand - a few more posts will I am sure reveal these attitudes are prevalent overseas too.

While it is easy to blame bigotry, and perhaps there is some justification we should not deny the real source of these attitudes.

It would seem that Websters' dictionary may have been right.

[siamamerican]

It still happens to me but how can I say this politely,... it's usually some NE teenage boy or tuk tuk driver with the comments. When they tend to over do it, I just kinda reply back in a loud enough voice (in Thai) for them to lose a little face, isnt my wife beautiful?

Most times I try not to pay much attention cause knowing this crowd, they pretty much gawk at any female hoping for a look back. I am sure nothing impresses the local ladies more than a couple of motorbike boys drinking lao kao prettending to be so cool.

If I feel my blood pressure beginning to rise, I just count to 5 and think to myself that "you know what, who gives a flying saucer about these buffalos, I get to sleep with my beautiful wife every night, while they sit around and count there one baht coins."

I understand your anger, but your views above aren't any better than Thais you're upset with. Most NE teenage boys and tuk tuk drivers aren't idiots and all farangs aren't sex tourists.

I've always had a soft spot for young thai men. It must be frustrating to watch us farangs date the young girls they covet. More than anything else, it is jealousy that causes the occational outbursts or glares and I would probably have the same attitude if I were Thai.

[Pierrot]

These assumptions come directly as a consequence of the Thai sex industry.

No doubt about it.

It is my guess they will continue for a further generation after that.

Situation is getting better. For many reason, maybe also because of the success of mix kids, especially in show business, ... But my feeling is now a Thay lady with a foreigner is not automatically seen as a prostitute, people are somehow more "discriminate".

As noted, these attitudes are from within Thailand and from foreigners visiting Thailand - a few more posts will I am sure reveal these attitudes are prevalent overseas too.

It is true when you introduced you Thai "fiancee" oversea, there was always a doubt about her "origin", but we used to travel a lot a this time, around 10 years ago, and nowhere we we had to face, both her and I, discrimination like in Thailand.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Pierrot

[britmaveric]

Never an issue personally - nor would I care. If someone is that ignorant, than not worth my effort to correct them.

[GuestHouse]

Never an issue personally - nor would I care. If someone is that ignorant, than not worth my effort to correct them.

I take a different view.

I hope that I am realistic in my views on this matter, for example above it is noted that Tuk-Tuk drivers and teanagers may express these views, however, that is not to say that others do not hold those views.

With that in mind and with the understanding that this stigma issue exists I take the view that while it may not impact me - it absolutely will impact my wife.

That is not to say that I take issue with people who hold these views, rather I try to have a better understanding and appreciation of the leap of faith my wife made in dating/marrying me.

As I see it, the verdict is guilty until proven innocent.

Keeping that in mind and the feelings of the person you care about is more important in my book.

[siamamerican]

Keeping that in mind and the feelings of the person you care about is more important in my book.

Agree, my wife told me recently she has reservations about living in Thailand because of the stigmatisms she faces everyday. We are about the same age and are a good match physically. In America, she has a normal life and isn't judged by our friends or people we come in contact with everyday.

She wants to spend more time with me and we both know in Thailand we will have more free time, so she is willing to make the sacrafice. I guess I could cut back the hours I spend working, but I'm too competive and realize that it won't happen. A little selfish on my part. We will give Thailand a go soon enough, knowing that there are alternatives.

[kmart]

Best to be a little thicker-skinned than a few people on here appear to be. Especially outside of Bangkok.

[bkkjames]

It still happens to me but how can I say this politely,... it's usually some NE teenage boy or tuk tuk driver with the comments. When they tend to over do it, I just kinda reply back in a loud enough voice (in Thai) for them to lose a little face, isnt my wife beautiful?

Most times I try not to pay much attention cause knowing this crowd, they pretty much gawk at any female hoping for a look back. I am sure nothing impresses the local ladies more than a couple of motorbike boys drinking lao kao prettending to be so cool.

If I feel my blood pressure beginning to rise, I just count to 5 and think to myself that "you know what, who gives a flying saucer about these buffalos, I get to sleep with my beautiful wife every night, while they sit around and count there one baht coins."

I understand your anger, but your views above aren't any better than Thais you're upset with. Most NE teenage boys and tuk tuk drivers aren't idiots and all farangs aren't sex tourists.

I've always had a soft spot for young thai men. It must be frustrating to watch us farangs date the young girls they covet. More than anything else, it is jealousy that causes the occational outbursts or glares and I would probably have the same attitude if I were Thai.

Give me a break, just because they are ignorant, ill mannered teenagers / adults who (yes I am generalizing here and of course it's not all of them) need to forceably (sp) impregnate some girl upcountry to get her to marry him, doesn't give them the right to open their traps at will and expect respect in return . The same goes for local Bangkokian Thais / farangs that act like idiots - those who deserve respect, generally get it. Not just because they are old either, Respect is earned, not inherited,,,at least in my books.

Perhaps, just, if they acted a bit more like gentlemen and less like d*ckheads most of the time, they wouldn't have to stand there looking at us farangs with the girls they covet. But funny (not), its the Thai girls that don't want anything to do with them.

That being said, I have met a few 'guys' over the years who have been generally very nice. But they are the exception.

Before you roll out the financial issue of Thai girls liking us just for the money, most guys I hang around with in Bangkok are married / dating girls that work in offices. But that's another topic I suppose.

[Maigo6]

Rod Stewart marries a women 30 years younger than himself and its a celebrity wedding and everyone says how much in love they are and wishes them all the best, how lucky she is and how lucky he is ...etc etc.

Joe Bloggs from Halifax marries a Thai women 20 years younger than himself and he is stigmatised as some kind of wierd perverted sicko that should be locked up, and she's obviously a hooker.

The differences in the 2 scenarios are money and association.

People will accept Rod Stewarts situation cos he's a rich guy and money allows the rich to live a lifestyle others can only dream about, hence the acceptance from the masses who know they will never be in the same position as Rod and get on with their mundane lives thinking how lucky Rod Stewart is, so it's a totally acceptable situation.

Joe Bloggs situation is different, he's a normal guy with a normal job, people can associate themselves with this normal guy, so what the he-ll is he doing with a woman 20 years younger then himself when they have partners the same age, who the he-ll does he think he is ?

He'll be seen in a totally different light cos he's a normal guy and he has what they don't have, even though they are from similar social and economic backgrounds.

Envy is what it's all about.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Maigo6

[jubby]

He'd be a brave Tuk-Tuk driver to have a go at my wife ;-)

I can recall one incident a number of years ago when we were in a restaurant with an old friend of mine in his 70's and my wife had a young cousin with her. Two middle aged , middle class maybe; Thai ladies made the wrong assumption and had to make a snide comment. The young cousin kept her mouth shut and looked very embarassed. I was oblivious ofcourse until my wifes perma-smile left the room. It was like a red rag to a bull, she made some snide comments back . The ladies shut up sharpish and left shortly afterwards. Its clear they don't like it up 'em ;-)

[siamamerican]

Give me a break, just because they are ignorant, ill mannered teenagers / adults who (yes I am generalizing here and of course it's not all of them) need to forceably (sp) impregnate some girl upcountry to get her to marry him, doesn't give them the right to open their traps at will and expect respect in return . The same goes for local Bangkokian Thais / farangs that act like idiots - those who deserve respect, generally get it. Not just because they are old either, Respect is earned, not inherited,,,at least in my books.

Perhaps, just, if they acted a bit more like gentlemen and less like d*ckheads most of the time, they wouldn't have to stand there looking at us farangs with the girls they covet. But funny (not), its the Thai girls that don't want anything to do with them.

That being said, I have met a few 'guys' over the years who have been generally very nice. But they are the exception.

Before you roll out the financial issue of Thai girls liking us just for the money, most guys I hang around with in Bangkok are married / dating girls that work in offices. But that's another topic I suppose.

Your situation sounds to be the exception and I really could give a rats arse either way. You are still using generalizations to group Thais and your last sentance use an exception to make your point. Most farangs I see aren't dating girls that work in offices. Also, I wasn't aware that office girls are not attracted to money.

[bonobo]

It still happens to me but how can I say this politely,... it's usually some NE teenage boy or tuk tuk driver with the comments. When they tend to over do it, I just kinda reply back in a loud enough voice (in Thai) for them to lose a little face, isnt my wife beautiful?

Most times I try not to pay much attention cause knowing this crowd, they pretty much gawk at any female hoping for a look back. I am sure nothing impresses the local ladies more than a couple of motorbike boys drinking lao kao prettending to be so cool.

If I feel my blood pressure beginning to rise, I just count to 5 and think to myself that "you know what, who gives a flying saucer about these buffalos, I get to sleep with my beautiful wife every night, while they sit around and count there one baht coins."

I understand your anger, but your views above aren't any better than Thais you're upset with. Most NE teenage boys and tuk tuk drivers aren't idiots and all farangs aren't sex tourists.

I've always had a soft spot for young thai men. It must be frustrating to watch us farangs date the young girls they covet. More than anything else, it is jealousy that causes the occational outbursts or glares and I would probably have the same attitude if I were Thai.

These are some very thoughtful posts. Even if they don't all agree with each other, I can appreciate the comments and the actions taken by the posters.

[bonobo]

My g/f is an accountant with a Masters degree. But she is younger than me (surprise surprise, I know). Except for one exploratory excursion to Soi Cowboy last year, we rarely go where there are many farangs, so it hasn't seemed to be an issue. But we went to Koh San last week so I could exchange a bum DVD, and while we were walking hand-in-hand, I was very self-conscious of our being together. She didn't say anything, but she seemed a little grim (I may have been imagining it.) I know I was wondering what others thought, and we did get a few of what I took as disapproving looks from some young farang girls and one Thai namsom vendor.

I know, who cares what they think, right? Intellectually, I understand and agree with that. But emotionally, I was bothered, and I wanted others to know that she wasn't a bar girl or gold-digger.

[guava]

Never an issue personally - nor would I care. If someone is that ignorant, than not worth my effort to correct them.

Absa-100%-lutely! Some people just going looking for drama, and take themselves a little too seriously.

Generally I find Thais to be exceedingly tolerant regarding just about anything, and very rarely rude to my face, save for the odd shoe shining brat, or people of a similar position in society. Those who encounter daily insults and abuse are likely getting what they give, or spending far too much time in the badlands. On the very rare occassion that I do cop it, it's water off a duck's back most of the time. Chronic ignorance, lack of education, lack of opportunity, poverty, etc buys a lot of slack in my book.

I'll save my pent up emotional angst for people who should know better who stop at the top of escalators with a hundred people behind them, push and shove to get on/off trains, elevators, and airlines without $#%^# seat allocations, dawdle and swerve along busy footpaths 3 aside like drunken chooks, etc etc etc. Even then I'll do my talking with the sly elbow, deft toe trod, or swift sharp tongue, rather than launch into some sort of "My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North....." epic rant. Warms the cockles of the heart

As for defending my wife's honour - she's more than capable of doing that herself, if she ever felt the need. No need for me to carry on like a porkchop. More often than not the farang acting the chivalrous knight just comes off as a clown, furthering the amusement of all.

As for racism, xenophobia, ignorance, and raw stupidity in the educated, and the powers that be - well that's simply unforgivable.

[rick75]

Bonobo I know what you are saying, we went down to Pattaya for a weeks holiday, she had never been and wanted to go. While walking around hand in hand I felt like another sex tourist. We are both around the same age, mid thirties and she is not from the bar scene, but I could not help but feel uncomfortable in this situation, away from the tourist areas I feel perfectly at home.

[Spyglass]

Most farangs may not seem to care of what other thais think…..I don’t care, mind you own business type of mindset, etc. , but more likely she and her family will have to endure the looks and being gossiped or judged upon until proven otherwise. It’s not right or wrong for them to do so, but this is just how it goes in the “real” Thailand - outside the “entertainment” industry. Most thais are very conservative in nature and culturally, and to be seen with a farang that looks like a 29 yrs old chicken hand in hand will surely get you a neg. stigma sticker on you forehead, unless she is a nurse walking him around a park hospital.

It’s just another fact of life here in Thailand, and farangs -being in a minority group- to me, I would try to blend in culturally or being sensitive about this side of Thailand also, while I’m here.

Just my thought

[bkkjames]

Give me a break, just because they are ignorant, ill mannered teenagers / adults who (yes I am generalizing here and of course it's not all of them) need to forceably (sp) impregnate some girl upcountry to get her to marry him, doesn't give them the right to open their traps at will and expect respect in return . The same goes for local Bangkokian Thais / farangs that act like idiots - those who deserve respect, generally get it. Not just because they are old either, Respect is earned, not inherited,,,at least in my books.

Perhaps, just, if they acted a bit more like gentlemen and less like d*ckheads most of the time, they wouldn't have to stand there looking at us farangs with the girls they covet. But funny (not), its the Thai girls that don't want anything to do with them.

That being said, I have met a few 'guys' over the years who have been generally very nice. But they are the exception.

Before you roll out the financial issue of Thai girls liking us just for the money, most guys I hang around with in Bangkok are married / dating girls that work in offices. But that's another topic I suppose.

Your situation sounds to be the exception and I really could give a rats arse either way. You are still using generalizations to group Thais and your last sentance use an exception to make your point. Most farangs I see aren't dating girls that work in offices. Also, I wasn't aware that office girls are not attracted to money.

I guess we don't hang out in the same places (reference to most farangs u see). You are correct, office girls from Thailand and the west are both interested in money as well. Who isn't? But my point is that those u see hanging around with farangs are doing so to support their baby that was given to them by some long gone thai male who bolted once he had his fun and is now dishing out taxi rides in Bangkok and elsewhere. Makes me feel really sorry for these guys.

[petitechevre]

Rod Stewart marries a women 30 years younger than himself and its a celebrity wedding and everyone says how much in love they are and wishes them all the best, how lucky she is and how lucky he is ...etc etc.

Joe Bloggs from Halifax marries a Thai women 20 years younger than himself and he is stigmatised as some kind of wierd perverted sicko that should be locked up, and she's obviously a hooker.

The differences in the 2 scenarios are money and association.

People will accept Rod Stewarts situation cos he's a rich guy and money allows the rich to live a lifestyle others can only dream about, hence the acceptance from the masses who know they will never be in the same position as Rod and get on with their mundane lives thinking how lucky Rod Stewart is, so it's a totally acceptable situation.

Joe Bloggs situation is different, he's a normal guy with a normal job, people can associate themselves with this normal guy, so what the he-ll is he doing with a woman 20 years younger then himself when they have partners the same age, who the he-ll does he think he is ?

He'll be seen in a totally different light cos he's a normal guy and he has what they don't have, even though they are from similar social and economic backgrounds.

Envy is what it's all about.

so wrong.

Rod stewart's situation is fine because he is a ROCKSTAR. it's not really about the money. It's his awesome personality, fame, lifestyle that is attracting to women.

Your 70 yo friend attracted a younger bird most likely because of financial security + having a decent personality

I will never believe that anyone over 50 getting a girl under 30 is all pure love. not even in thailand, those 30yo girls that arent bar girls are gonna get hot looking guys around their age with as much money and probably more matching personalities... most of the time those snatching young birds that arent bar girls, were just lucky to be the first farang interested in a rice girl who'se never seen a 500$ bed and a lcd tv

[ChangMaiSausage]

Always a great topic to her everyone's feelings

Friends always questioned why I visited Thailand three/four times a year (inc.. family) they all beleived it was for the young Thai girls, correct to a certain degree but I also felt comforatble whilst on vacation in Thailand. I met my Thai wife whilst on one of these vacations she is four years older than me. Basically I found that I was called more prior to marrying my wife than I am now.

Most of you guys and ladies out there have travelled Thailand for many years and are well aware of what the simple minded people think, just ignore them you will probably never see them again.

Enjoy life with your your partner <deleted> what other people think as long as you are happy.

[TheDon]

When I walk around, the ladies are all thinking, how lucky is she to be with a REAL man like myself

[ChangMaiSausage]

When I walk around, the ladies are all thinking, how lucky is she to be with a REAL man like myself

Hansum rich man

[TheDon]

I dont give a shit what people think of me. One bloke at work asked if he could sleep with my wife for $5.00. I made him cry at work when I pinned him to the wall with my forearm against his neck as he only weighed something like 10 kilos.