Opening Bar/restaurant Upcountry

[howerski]

Hi All. We are currently saving to go back to live in Thailand (upcountry). We plan to bouild a bar/small restaurant on land we already own. I have the following questions:

1. Do we need any sort of planning permission (it's a village, and the land is adjacent to shops etc)

2. Do we need permits/licenses ?

3. Is it better to set up a comany or operate as individuals re tax ?

My wife is a Thai national and I am British. Any advice or useful neggets of information/experience gratefully received

[cynthialee]

Dont do it!

[howerski]

Dont do it!

Hi Cynthialee. Why not ? We've been tpgether 5 years. I've visited 15 times and know the village and many villagers. What problems do you see ? By the way, when I say bar - I don't mean a girlie bar.

[Chaimai]

Indeed - why not. Let us see some rationale.

I am sure you will not make any money from it but if you have the 'free' capital to invest and want to choose this as a lifestyle business then why not ?

[cynthialee]

If the goal is not to make money go ahead! These ma and pa operations are for thai people, ma and pa being thai.

Will the villagers want to see you succeed at their expense. You are supposed to support them not them support you.

Edited July 5, 2008 by cynthialee

[soundman]

Dont do it!

Have you seen his concept, business plan, market research etc?

If you haven't, how do you know it is not going to be a success?

Sure there are many failures (more often than not through the lack of planning, being under capitilised or simply trying to dive in to an industry where there is bugger all money to be made in the first place), however, there are many restaurants, service industry businesses and other businessesin various industries in this country opened and run by foreigners that are doing very well.

Soundman.

Edited July 5, 2008 by soundman

[cynthialee]

The biggest clue he isnt a big player is he is asking for advice here!

[Chaimai]

The biggest clue he isnt a big player is he is asking for advice here!

and that gives you the right to p*ss on his chips ??

Any idiot can post one-line negative comments without any substantiating comments. I suggest that the OP is looking for constructive comments - negative or positive

[soundman]

The biggest clue he isnt a big player is he is asking for advice here!

Not neccessarily.

I have asked for and received all sorts of valuable advice from this forum.

however

To OP

If you have never engaged and been successful in business before, maybe in the country you came from, cutting your teeth in Thailand is probably not in your best interests until you have some very good "local" knowledge about what you are getting into first.

I wouldn't recommend throwing a whole lot of cash at something someone else (Thai or foreigner in Thailand) says they can do, unless you have seen evidence or track record of their past success.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[soundman]

Getting back to OP question. (got sidetracked )

If you go to your ampur office they will have a section set up dealing with all the liscences and permits required. You walk in, tell them what you are doing and selling, they will point out all the required liscences (bai ah-noo-yaht).

Don't forget your music liscences, must apply and pay to each different recording company, search this forum for some threads concerning this.

cheers,

Soundman.

[cynthialee]

Hows this. I bet this is how things went down. Thai wife said iknow how to cook , i want to open restaurant, we have vacant land to put it on, husband says okie dokie!

If he went and got affadavits from the villagers that they would eat at his place several times a week at double or triple the current prices of similiar restaurants needed to support a new building then maybe......lol.

Op does not sound like a well financed man if he needs to save to get things started. If he want to do something with the commercially viable land he should build shops and rent them out and let others worry about running something that dont sound to good. If this guy were a successful businessman in another country and want to fiddle in los thats one thing, but him not having any money speaks volumes.

Soundman , to be fair, you sound like you have business experience, most of these poster all they have is thai wife who want a business.

You disappoint me mr man. one of your reasons for high failure rate is undercapitilization. Does op sound like he falls into this category?

Edited July 5, 2008 by cynthialee

[Chaimai]

Hows this. I bet this is how things went down. Thai wife said iknow how to cook , i want to open restaurant, we have vacant land to put it on, husband says okie dokie!

If he went and got affadavits from the villagers that they would eat at his place several times a week at double or triple the current prices of similiar restaurants needed to support a new building then maybe......lol.

Op does not sound like a well financed man if he needs to save to get things started. If he want to do something with the commercially viable land he should build shops and rent them out and let others worry about running something that dont sound to good. If this guy were a successful businessman in another country and want to fiddle in los thats one thing, but him not having any money speaks volumes.

Soundman , to be fair, you sound like you have business experience, most of these poster all they have is thai wife who want a business.

You disappoint me mr man. one of your reasons for high failure rate is undercapitilization. Does op sound like he falls into this category?

He can't lose much then, can he.

He is looking to be happy and as I said IF he has capital to cover the venture the why not ? If hasn't got the cash (or is not prepared to lose it) then he cannot proceed.

This not ICI, I guess we are simply talking about a life style. In Thailand it is possible to follow a small dream at a small price.

I have a friend with a double shop house bar that costs 5,000 Baht p.m. to rent - in England you could not rent a dog kennel for that.

He will not make any money at it but at least it gives him and his an interest and something to do. Break even is probably his best outcome and suggest the same will be true of the OP.

[mijan24]

Hows this. I bet this is how things went down. Thai wife said iknow how to cook , i want to open restaurant, we have vacant land to put it on, husband says okie dokie! Lets have a look & step 1 is ask for opinions

If he went and got affadavits from the villagers that they would eat at his place several times a week at double or triple the current prices of similiar restaurants needed to support a new building then maybe......lol.[b] cynthialee what are you smoking - pray tell me who ion this world has ever done that when starting a business? thats not market research thats a load of coddswallop.[/b]

Op does not sound like a well financed man if he needs to save to get things started. Called possible future operation. If he want to do something with the commercially viable land he should build shops and rent- now does he have to seek affadavidts from future renters that they will take lifetime leasese etc? them out and let others worry about running something that dont sound to good. If this guy were a successful businessman in another country and want to fiddle in los thats one thing, but him not having any money speaks volumes. you seem very wise cynthialee and seeing how you can tell volumes from a simple post, could you respond with my future also?

Soundman , to be fair, you sound like you have business experience, most of these poster all they have is thai wife who want a business.

You disappoint me mr man. one of your reasons for high failure rate is undercapitilization. Does op sound like he falls into this category?

Cynthialee - Hopefully I am wrong in the opinions I have formed from reading your response, if so sorry, but just to help my thought processes heal why not provide some self history of how you have come to Thailand (I am assuming you live here) and made your fortune.

[cynthialee]

Rhetorical question. Would anyone have approved a dimsum place in the middle of sukhumvit in the heart of bkk. Near the tony romas restaurant. A prime piece of property in which the operator speecializes in selling a low priced item, I bet many of you would have advised follow your dream . I look at that operation and say why didnt you ask for advice on tv, i could have saved you a lot of baht.....lol.

Can someone order me a future possible operation please! I could use the cash as im not paid here......lol.

So mij, would you invest in a shiny new restaurant in the sticks where the customers are referred to as villagers.

Edited July 5, 2008 by cynthialee

[garro]

My advise to to the OP would be that if this is something to keep wifey busy then go for it - keep yourself well out of it. If you see it as a way to make money forget about it. I recently moved back to a Thai city but prior to that lived in a village for six years. The reason why there are no bars in villages is because there is no money in it. If by some miracle you managed to make a success of a bar you would make people envious and your business would be ruined. Everyday villagers are forced to leave because there is no money to be made in rural areas. I don't think they will take too kindly to a westerner coming in and trying to profit off them.

It should also be remembered that selling alcohol is considered to be a wrong livelihood in Buddhist culture. Plenty of Thais get drunk but with the knowledge that it is not good thing. People sell alcohol because they need the money. I don't think a bar will ever have any type of respectability in Thai society so again probably no a great way to introduce yourself to the village.

Edited July 5, 2008 by garro

[Chaimai]

No.

The question was, I believe, what are your qualifications/experience to just poo-poo someone's ideas.

As for "advice on tv" - you are not providing advice only denegrating someones ideas without substantiating reasons.

[cynthialee]

Ok garro just put an ixnay on the idea too!

Omg farngs dont open up shop in villages and make a buck. Whats so hard to understand.

Does garro need a phd in villages econo mics before we listen. Ive never been in a village yet i understand how things work.

No offense but business anywhere aint for wusses!

Edited July 5, 2008 by cynthialee

[garro]

If you are serious about making money in a village the only idea I could offer you is to a homestay. You could advertise on the internet and maybe interest adventurous people who want to see a different side of Thailand - it wouldn't be great money, but at least you would be bringing money into the village. I would strongly advise you forget the bar idea.

[tomuk76]

Dont do it!

Why is there so many negative people on here? I bet you havent got a postive thing to say about anything!! Please suprise me!

[garro]

Dont do it!

Why is there so many negative people on here? I bet you havent got a postive thing to say about anything!! Please suprise me!

Have you been overdoing it on the motivational talks?

The OP has asked for advice and advice has been given.

The OP does not sound like he can afford to risk money on coming here and losing it on a pipe-dream - and that is what I believe he will be doing.

Many people are desperate to come live in Thailand and it can make them consider wild ideas.

It is nothing new, and it happens frequently. Most do it without even asking anybody's advice - the OP is ahead of them in this respect.

I cannot tell the OP that he is on to a winner because I'm convinced he isn't.

Of course he can choose to ignore my advice, but that is up to him.

If you spent any time in a Thai village you would understand why this idea is just silly.

[tomuk76]

So garro i take it the reason you moved out of the village to the city is because you never made any money there? I suppose the OP is one step ahead of you for asking first before jumping in!

Edited July 5, 2008 by tomuk76

[howerski]

Just because I only have a few posts on this forum, some people appear to think I'm green. I asked a couple of specific questions in the hope of getting some decent and well-meaning advice - not for tarot readings about myself, my fincances and my relationship. Thank you to those who answered in a good spirit, but I've already seen enough of this thread - MODS PLEASE DELETE IT.

[tomuk76]

Thats the trouble with posting a business idea on here howerski. The majority will only tell you the bad stuff as, even if you have a great idea that was garaunteed to make you a living, the same people would come out saying you cant make a living in thailand!! Well maybe it cus they cant!!

ps just look at cythialees past posts, nearly all of them negs!

[cynthialee]

If someone actually came up with a good idea id be thrilled, its just that people keep coming on here with my wife or gf (thai of course) want to open a mundane business that every tom dick and somchai has already done.

To reiterate i dont think real business types gonna ask what they need to get done to make things work here.

My post are negative because i respond to op with silly threads to begin with.

[johnnyk]

If you are serious about making money in a village the only idea I could offer you is to a homestay. You could advertise on the internet and maybe interest adventurous people who want to see a different side of Thailand - it wouldn't be great money, but at least you would be bringing money into the village. I would strongly advise you forget the bar idea.

This one sounds good to me.

You could capitalize on your western-ness, use the internet, offer something to falangs beyond canned tours and bring fresh falang money into the mooban. The original idea basically would take mooban money and wash it around with some staying in a falang pocket. The villagers may not be that thrilled about that and somebody in the village may be quite happy to advance the notion you are making money off them.

If your wife is a good cook then you could offer B&B style accommodation or demi-pension (brekkie & dinner).

If you have a decent house (bug screens essential!), furnish it with western beds, DVD player, falang toilet and a shower heater - none of this will break the bank.

Make an inventory of places to see, things to do for the falangs.

Arrange a thai-style barbecue, temple tours, country markets, nature tours/outings and so on. Maybe cut some of the villagers in on the action by having them provide some goods or services (find the best cook in the mooban and offer a cooking class with wife to translate).

IMO, this approach could be win-win all round and you have a chance to gain face big time.

Edited July 5, 2008 by johnnyk

[Chaimai]

If someone actually came up with a good idea id be thrilled, its just that people keep coming on here with my wife or gf (thai of course) want to open a mundane business that every tom dick and somchai has already done.

To reiterate i dont think real business types gonna ask what they need to get done to make things work here.

My post are negative because i respond to op with silly threads to begin with.

Arrogance AND ignorance.

Harsh to say the OP's thread was silly - he was genuinely looking for advice. Just because the idea was fundamentally flawed does not give you the right to make sanctimonious comments.

See post from johnnyk for a lesson in how to be constructive

[garro]

So garro i take it the reason you moved out of the village to the city is because you never made any money there? I suppose the OP is one step ahead of you for asking first before jumping in!

Sorry to disappoint you, but I didn't move to the village to make money. I had a great few years there, but after our baby was born I decided that it was not the place where I wanted my son to grow up. I self-financed myself for those years and never attempted to make any money off a community who didn't have much. The time I spent there was enough for me. Not that it is any of your business as I'm not the one seeking advice.

Edited July 5, 2008 by garro

[garro]

Just because I only have a few posts on this forum, some people appear to think I'm green. I asked a couple of specific questions in the hope of getting some decent and well-meaning advice - not for tarot readings about myself, my fincances and my relationship. Thank you to those who answered in a good spirit, but I've already seen enough of this thread - MODS PLEASE DELETE IT.

So the bit in your OP about,

Any advice or useful neggets of information/experience gratefully received

wasn't meant. Perhaps you should make it clearer in your OPs that you only want replies which will say that your idea is a winner. If you are going to go ahead with this idea I would suggest that you speak to the Puu Yai Baan as he/she will be the one who can sort out any disagreements and is often referred to in matters of village business.

[mijan24]

If someone actually came up with a good idea id be thrilled, its just that people keep coming on here with my wife or gf (thai of course) want to open a mundane business that every tom dick and somchai has already done.

To reiterate i dont think real business types gonna ask what they need to get done to make things work here.

My post are negative because i respond to op with silly threads to begin with.

cynthialee I am not going to keep on with "posters versus cynthiaee" as this is not our thread my invitation to you is simply "put up your credentials or but out"

OP you must take the good with the bad - that is the core of creative thinking - sift the good from the not so good. discard what you think is rubbish (save it somewhere remember to look at it for second thought generation) and evaluate what is left - garro whom I do not know offers some good thoughts so do others, take them & write them down and discuss them with the other half, done in a sensible way she may even have some good input & you may well be suprised some of the family village folk may well have some good ideas.

Dont fold at the first hurdle get up and have another look - maybe they need a hair dresser, maybe thay need a fancy nail shop - now there you go "creative thinking" nail maybe they need a small DIY item shop (nails, glue, piping) come on mate get the finger out use the old grey matter.

Reemember TiT the land of opportunity but take the underlying message " don't go into a village venture expecting to be Rockerfella" a nice sideline or something to make the little lady happy - remember to qualify for a married visa extension you need to show 40000k baht income per month.

Edited July 6, 2008 by mijan24

[cynthialee]

Is creative thinking involve coming up with more ideas that wont work. Villagers need a fancy nail shop?. Someone to do their hair? What are your credentials mij24, your ideas are of lesser substance than ops, if thats possible.

You know if you just accept you aint gonna make money off those who dont have it you may have taken the first step to becomming successful in business.

24, i offered the same same as garro btw, look back at my be4 garro entered....lol. Will villagers take to farang leeching off them?

Now if op needs to show incum of 40k to live here then he may decide he cant. If he has to save just to get to the village the village

may not want him.

All this time i thought america was the land of oppurtunity! when it was actually thailand. ARE you for real mr24?

Edited July 6, 2008 by cynthialee