Gavin Newsom Chose The Us Pres.

[Dradam]

Many people might wonder how George Bush could win re-election with such a miserable job approval rating. In fact, many more people voted for him than thought he was doing a good job. Kerry is a decent candidate and won each of the 3 debates. How could he lose?

People blame uneducated rednecks voting for Bush yet the Republican Party has always been the wealthier and better educated of the two parties. Democrats depend on the youngest, the oldest and the poorest of voters to win elections. Low turnout among young voters and poor voters often costs the democratic party elections.

The clear deciding factor in the election started with San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom as well as a Massachusetts Judge who decided it was important that gays have the right to marriage. They forced the issue and made international news.

In their urgency to push their agenda, they enraged the religious rightwing. As many as 75% of people who attend church weekly voted for Bush in many polls.

Do they agree with Bush's economic policy?

Most often, no

Do they agree with Bush that the US should have attacked Iraq?

Most often, no

Do they think Bush is doing a good job?

Many of them don't.

Why did they vote for Bush?

They don't believe homosexuals should be married and they think abortion should be strictly controlled and not freely available as an alternative form of birth control.

When Mayor Gavin Newsom ignored the California Amendment to the Constitution that was voted on by a large majority of California, by urging gay couples to be married in San Francisco he shot Kerry in the foot.

Nearly a dozen states put the gay marriage on the ballot. In all 11 states, gay marriage was voted to be illegal by a wide margin. Even though Kerry verbally opposed Gay Marriage, his political party doesn't and Kerry votes along party lines over 95% of the time (he is hardly a flip-flopper). As a result, George Bush (despite a dismal job approval rating) gained mass appeal as the morally correct candidate.

[hellohello]

It's amazing that so many choose Bush based on the high priority they place on morals

in their lives. The Right has really won on creating an image of themselves as victims

of the liberal left elitists (especially of the West and East coasts).

[Dradam]

It's amazing that so many choose Bush based on the high priority they place on morals

in their lives.  The Right has really won on creating an image of themselves as victims

of the liberal left elitists (especially of the West and East coasts). 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think the rightwing portrayed themselves as victims. I think they portrayed the leftists as morally destitute. Both sides in fact have attempted to show that the other side has been performing the more morally reprehensible acts. I guess US voters decided that abortion and gay marriage were worse than a disturbingly unsupportable war and fiscal irresponsibility.

[cathyy]

People blame uneducated rednecks voting for Bush yet the Republican Party has always been the wealthier and better educated of the two parties.  Democrats depend on the youngest, the oldest and the poorest of voters to win elections.  Low turnout among young voters and poor voters often costs the democratic party elections.

I agree with you in part. The Democrats in the past had a constituency of the old, the poor, the young idealists, and minorities. It has changed over the past 20 years. 20 years ago things like abortion were treated as ethical issues, not moral issues. They were not items in any party's political agenda. Then the Republicans adopted the positions of the Religious Right as political issues in order to broaden their appeal. The Religious Right saw this as an opportunity to legislate their morals into law. A happy combination for them both, or so it seems.

Unfortunately, a great many of the Religious Right are poor, and former Democrats, particularly in the South. They have now proved their stupidity by voting against their own economic interests in two consecutive Presidential elections. Ohio voters who had lost their jobs still voted for Bush because "he's a Christian, and Kerry isn't." That's right, folks, to the Religious Right all the old mainstream religions, like Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, and Presbyterian are not really Christians. Making sure that gays can't have civil unions and pregnant teens can't get abortions is more important to these people than being able to support their family. And I guess not killing unborn babies is more important than not killing 18 year old babies.

People who thought about real political issues voted for Kerry. People who could be told how to vote by their minister didn't. And that is why GWB won the election. The US is getting frighteningly close to the establishment of a state religion, that religion being Evangelical Fundamentalist Christianity, the Christian equivalent of the Islamic militants. They deserve each other, and I'm planning to move out of their way and let them have at one another.

[SoCal]

The left went to far left.

It was there's to lose, and they did.

Most Americans can see through the lies of F911, don't appreciate their leader being called Hitler, don't appreciate insinuations that 911 was staged, don't believe the President lied about Iraq as the whole world was in agreement, that the President was not elected/valid/stole, and heavy handed actions from those elected and the courts as laid out above.

I live in CA, have no issue with gays, but the actions of Gavin Newsom pissed me off, as it is directly against the law of the state of CA, where they had already passed an ammendment by the people that gay marriage was not legal.

I have a lot of problems with Bush, didn't vote for him, yet often found myself defending him when discussing with the left.

The Dems will either decide that they are not the party of Michael Moore, or they will cease to be a viable party.

Frankly, it doesn't matter to me, and amazed at how many in the world are caught up in American politics. As much as you like to state that we are not the center of the world, we are obviously the center of yours.

[Dradam]

People who thought about real political issues voted for Kerry. People who could be told how to vote by their minister didn't. And that is why GWB won the election. The US is getting frighteningly close to the establishment of a state religion, that religion being Evangelical Fundamentalist Christianity, the Christian equivalent of the Islamic militants. They deserve each other, and I'm planning to move out of their way and let them have at one another.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is alot of truth to what you are saying. I don't believe that over 40 million people didn't think about how they voted though. I believe most thought alot about it. They based their decision on a few key religious values that they consider more important than others.

It does appear that Christianity and Islam are headed for a giant war. I don't believe you will be able to move out of the way when it happens. From events here in Thailand, Buddhism and Islam might be going along that same path.

Religious Extremism seems to be spreading. Fighting it with violence is like trying to douse a flame with gasoline.

[SoCal]

The US is getting frighteningly close to the establishment of a state religion, that religion being Evangelical Fundamentalist Christianity, the Christian equivalent of the Islamic militants. They deserve each other, and I'm planning to move out of their way and let them have at one another.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now, I don't believe in God, nor do I attend church, but this kind of insulting statement is the type that drives Americans further to the right.

Cathy, not trying to start something, but just think equating a devoutly religious American to Zaraqawi & Bin Laden is a stretch that most in America will not agree with, be insulted by, and destroy the Dems in the end. This is what the far left do not undertand.

No problem for me. Free world right.

[hellohello]

Yes, but if the Democrats were allowed in, the Right would become victims... Thats what I meant. I agree Dradam, Its a sad day when abortion and gay marriage are worse than a war.

[cathyy]

Cathy, not trying to start something, but just think equating a devoutly religious American to Zaraqawi & Bin Laden is a stretch that most in America will not agree with, be insulted by, and destroy the Dems in the end.

No, no, no. I meant that they are both taking a perfectly innocent and generally benevolent religion and using to political ends. Quoting passages out of context to defend their interpretations of the meanings, that kind of thing. I meant they were similarly extremist and separated from the mainstream of the religion.

However, you may also note that it's those same Christian extremists who believe we are "killing Muslims for Jesus."

[Dradam]

Yes, but if the Democrats were allowed in,  the Right would become victims... Thats what I meant. I agree Dradam, Its a sad day when abortion and gay marriage are worse than a war.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Deciding when a war is necessary is a tough one. Seems strange that Bush dodged a war in the 70's and then charged headlong into one when it wasn't his own life on the line.

I don't envy Bush. He certainly has a tough job and I don't think he has the intellect or the administrative skills to handle the situation he is in. Unfortunately, although Kerry tried to prove himself to be a devout Catholic, his unwillingness to vote along religious lines made him appear wishy washy to those who are very religious. Perhaps Democrats need to soften their stance on certain issues to make themselves more attractive. They are losing their base of poor voters as they distance themselves into the far left.

It should not have been difficult to beat Bush this year. All it would take was someone who could relate to the average Joe voter.

[Sulaphat]

Next time the Dems should try to find a cadidate with more Bubba factor. Kerry had none.

[Narachon]

The US is getting frighteningly close to the establishment of a state religion, that religion being Evangelical Fundamentalist Christianity, the Christian equivalent of the Islamic militants. They deserve each other, and I'm planning to move out of their way and let them have at one another.

The Future of America.....

[cathyy]

The Future of America.....

Now, that actually looks promising to me! I'm from Michigan, we border Canada on 2 sides, north and east...I wonder if we could secede?

[Tornado]

Next time the Dems should try to find a cadidate with more Bubba factor.  Kerry had none.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your right. How sad!

[penzman]

The Future of America.....

Now, that actually looks promising to me! I'm from Michigan, we border Canada on 2 sides, north and east...I wonder if we could secede?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Free healthcare...

The Red Wings as a Canadian team...

You could hide your earnings at the Windsor casino from the IRS.

[SoCal]

However, you may also note that it's those same Christian extremists who believe we are "killing Muslims for Jesus." 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cathy, I'm not going to say that nobody believes that, but most Americans do not feel this way. I would say the most negative is not due to religion, but racism and the desire for some sort of post 9/11 vengeance. This is also a minority of Americans, but a sizeable minority. Frankly I do not think we have any corner on this racism/vengeance either. It comes from all sides.

The most racist country I have been to/lived in for muslims is in fact France.

Come home on vacation when you get a chance. We're not all that bad.

[SoCal]

Next time the Dems should try to find a cadidate with more Bubba factor.  Kerry had none.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your right. How sad!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They had Edwards. All he needed was a strong VP, and I think he could have pulled it.

The mistake was Kerry.

[Narachon]

After the Election The mood is very bleak Here in the City......

But then again, according to the New Order , we New Yorkers aren't "Real" Americans...

[tuky]

Folks, this topic belongs in the http://www.bearpit.net/ where political discussions abound, you will all find it a lot more interesting if this is your line of debate.

Hence, this topic is now closed.

Cheers.