Please Help! Refused 1yr Stu Uk Visa.....

[izeo0]

Question...

If you get called in for an interview, who actually decides whether to issue the visa? is it the ECO right

there and then? (because I am aware that some may get interviewed by different ECOs)

ANYONE WHO HAS AN EXPERIENCE OR ANYONE WHO KNOWS PLEASE HELP

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The story is my girlfriend has been refused a 1 year student visa (15 hours/week) for the 3rd time

today.

She is 22 years of age and has left school since 2000 at 3rd grade High School because she was not

intending to go onto academic subjects as her career. Instead she had interest in hairdressing so she

worked with her mother's business for 4 years until 2004 where she worked in a hairdressing salon

which she quit after just over a year due to small wages (at this time she had learned all the skills she

needs from her employer and being the employee doesn't earn enough for the life that she wants).

So she realises that she needs a job that pays more, having a background of interest already based in

that area, her dream was to own a salon that is popular (for the owner having a Certificate from the

UK and also being able to service foreign customers with no language barriers as a minority of Thais

speak good English).

So since after 2005 she has been helping her mother in the family dog breeding farm trying saving

up to study hairdressing in the UK (having in mind the intentions to go to the UK to do hairdressing

as her father mentions a very close friend he has in the UK and he agrees to accomodate her while

studying in the UK).

As she is a single female child she has never had a bank account as all her money is kept cash with

her or her parents. There was no need for a bank account at that time because the job she had at the

salon pays her 1000 Baht weekly (which was enough for a girl who lives with her parents).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 1st time was a direct refusal with no interview (due to lack of experience the documents were

not properly presented). Many problems were pointed out to us so we tried our best to correct them.

So we prepared the documents again with some help of experienced ones.

The 2nd time she was called in for an interview with a coloured English gentleman (around middle

aged, he seemed nice) he asked her if she had any extra comments to make after the interview had

finished and then he finally refused after lunch break (reasons given were very acceptable and

understandable). His reasons for refusing were that she wasn't prepared enough to go to England

and start studying there as she has had no extra english lessons since finishing 3rd year of high

school in 2000.

So she went and took one 60 hour course in General English and a 40 hour in Active Communication

Course, then we applied again.

This 3rd time she was again called in for an interview but it was a younger guy almost 30-ish and the

reasons he gave for refusing is rather confusing to her and against all the documents she provided

e.g.

-He said she hasn't taken any extra english lessons since she finished high school, which she had

taken after the 2nd refusal considering it was the reason she got refused that time around.

"You have not attened any further academic courses since High School have failed to provide any

evidence of your income, savings, and assets(which we have explained in the application after the

1st refusal)."

-"You live in a relatively rural area of Thailand and have stated at interview that you work in the

family dog breeding farm. It is a large leap in the powers of reasoning to be satisfied of the

connection between working in a family dog breeding farm in Thailand to studying English in the UK

and returing to Thailand as a hairdresser."

The applicant's plan is to study English in order to study further in "Hairdressing" and gain a

certificate from England so she can open up a salon that can service international customers as well

as thai customers in her hometown Nakorn Ratchasima, considering that Nakorn Ratchasima is a

growing community which many foreigners have recently came into residence, I believe it is a good

investment to go over to the UK and learn the necessary skills and returning to her country to persue

a career that she has always loved. She worked in a salon in 2004-2005 but he never mentioned this

in his comments. After 2005 until today she has helped her mother in the family dog breeding farm

to help as much as she can towards the costs of her study in the UK.

-The officer also mentions a document that doesn't exist (not that I am aware of)

"On an incidental point you have stated you work on a dog breeding farm in Nakorn Ratchasima

(true) and have provided a piece of paper stating that you passed a basic hairdressing course in

Nakorn Ratchasima (true, a statement signed by the salon owner as she hired the applicant and

taught her a Basic Course in hairdressing but she cannot provide a proper certificate because her shop

isn't registered as a hairdressing academy. The applicant also has a letter of confirmation and proof

of her time working there signed by the same person, the owner.) but have provided a photocopied

certificate of achievement in Hair dressing from Bangkok (not true, this is the document that doesn't

exist, I am very confused by this comment)."

This guy not like the last one, never asked if I had any comments to make after the interview. He just

said no.

These were just some of the comments there is (he actually made 5 points in total).

Is it just me or does this officer by any chance maybe confused or misunderstanding some documents.

Or did he not relate this case to her 2 previous refusals because he didn't seem to understand her

situation fully.

The comments he made supporting his decision means that we can not do anything else to correct

the mistakes or to gain a VISA (only maybe being born as a hairdresser's daughter.....as he said that it

is rather a large leap from dog breeding in Thailand to studying in the UK and hairdressing after that

in Thailand.....why didn't he consider her 2004-2005 employment in a hairdressing salon and see

that she has always had interest in hairdressing??).

We have done everything to correct the first 2 refusals, which we thought was very acceptable. But

this decision we really feel is unfair (as the second ECO's decision was supported by a comment that

"it would be more acceptable if you study an English Course here in Thailand before attempting to

study in England."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am wondering whether to appeal or not because I have to be back in England in November and I

want her to come with me and I am concerned that it would take much longer than that for the

result of an appeal to come out. Or would it be overturned in a shorter period of time if they decide

that it was actually a human error by the ECO?

PLEASE ANYONE WHO CAN PLEASE HELP ME.............and HER THANKS

[farangene]

I can understand why she was refused a visa. They probably consider her a flight risk (ie candidate to stay in England forever) because she has little education and no ties (financial, etc) to Thailand. Regardless of her noble intentions, this is what they probably surmise by reviewing her experience. finances and resume.

Maybe she might be better off living in Bangkok for a year or two where she can make a decent wage hairdressing in a shop that caters to foreigners so that she can practice/improve her English. Also the English courses at AUA seem to be useful to Thais wanting to improve their English. Their schedules are flexible and not too expensive.

Good luck.

[Tod Daniels]

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news:

The burden of proof is always on the applicant to show they have sufficient "thais" to this country to return when the visa ends. That is why most if not all first world countries set the bar awfully high in this regard. There is simply not enough budget nor manpower to track down everyone who overstays their visa.

Given the facts as you have stated them; no bank account (<deleted>?), limited education, limited english skills, you're tryin' to push water uphill to get this visa approved. To the powers that be she's a definite flight risk with a huge potential to overstay.

This statement rings true no matter how indifferent it may sound to you;

"It is a large leap in the powers of reasoning to be satisfied of the connection between working in a family dog breeding farm in Thailand to studying English in the UK and returning to Thailand as a hairdresser".

Working as a hairdresser from 2004-2005 or only a single year does not a professional hairdresser make, no matter how many certificates she has. Add in the fact her work history is already 3 years old, so no current time in her stated or wished for profession. In Korat, there are a plethora of hair dressing shops, AND english language schools. She could have easily found work, albeit at a low wage in her 'chosen profession', and gone to school more than 60 hours to learn english. In a personal observation; I don't think tourists give two shits about a 'certified hairdresser from the UK' when they come to thailand to get their hair done, but that's your selling point to get a visa for her, not mine.

You mention that after 2005 until today she's worked in the 'family dog breeding' business with her mother as you put it; "to help as much as she can towards the costs of her study in the UK". Where's that money? Under a mattress? Why wasn't it put into a bank account, to show she has had at least some income for the last 3 years. To the interviewer, if it can't be backed up with documentation, it is most likely fictitious, whether that is the case or not.

Go out and immediately have her open a bank account, (even the poorest thais I know have savings accounts); show activity on the account money in-money out (even small transactions show an active account). Get her enrolled in an english language school, and have her get a job as a hairdresser. If you sincerely want to help her with this; get those issues sorted out and try again.

(P/S: Next time try not to double space your post.)

Good luck

[roygsd]

Question...

If you get called in for an interview, who actually decides whether to issue the visa? is it the ECO right

there and then? (because I am aware that some may get interviewed by different ECOs)

ANYONE WHO HAS AN EXPERIENCE OR ANYONE WHO KNOWS PLEASE HELP

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The story is my girlfriend has been refused a 1 year student visa (15 hours/week) for the 3rd time

today.

She is 22 years of age and has left school since 2000 at 3rd grade High School because she was not

intending to go onto academic subjects as her career. Instead she had interest in hairdressing so she

worked with her mother's business for 4 years until 2004 where she worked in a hairdressing salon

which she quit after just over a year due to small wages (at this time she had learned all the skills she

needs from her employer and being the employee doesn't earn enough for the life that she wants).

So she realises that she needs a job that pays more, having a background of interest already based in

that area, her dream was to own a salon that is popular (for the owner having a Certificate from the

UK and also being able to service foreign customers with no language barriers as a minority of Thais

speak good English).

So since after 2005 she has been helping her mother in the family dog breeding farm trying saving

up to study hairdressing in the UK (having in mind the intentions to go to the UK to do hairdressing

as her father mentions a very close friend he has in the UK and he agrees to accomodate her while

studying in the UK).

As she is a single female child she has never had a bank account as all her money is kept cash with

her or her parents. There was no need for a bank account at that time because the job she had at the

salon pays her 1000 Baht weekly (which was enough for a girl who lives with her parents).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 1st time was a direct refusal with no interview (due to lack of experience the documents were

not properly presented). Many problems were pointed out to us so we tried our best to correct them.

So we prepared the documents again with some help of experienced ones.

The 2nd time she was called in for an interview with a coloured English gentleman (around middle

aged, he seemed nice) he asked her if she had any extra comments to make after the interview had

finished and then he finally refused after lunch break (reasons given were very acceptable and

understandable). His reasons for refusing were that she wasn't prepared enough to go to England

and start studying there as she has had no extra english lessons since finishing 3rd year of high

school in 2000.

So she went and took one 60 hour course in General English and a 40 hour in Active Communication

Course, then we applied again.

This 3rd time she was again called in for an interview but it was a younger guy almost 30-ish and the

reasons he gave for refusing is rather confusing to her and against all the documents she provided

e.g.

-He said she hasn't taken any extra english lessons since she finished high school, which she had

taken after the 2nd refusal considering it was the reason she got refused that time around.

"You have not attened any further academic courses since High School have failed to provide any

evidence of your income, savings, and assets(which we have explained in the application after the

1st refusal)."

-"You live in a relatively rural area of Thailand and have stated at interview that you work in the

family dog breeding farm. It is a large leap in the powers of reasoning to be satisfied of the

connection between working in a family dog breeding farm in Thailand to studying English in the UK

and returing to Thailand as a hairdresser."

The applicant's plan is to study English in order to study further in "Hairdressing" and gain a

certificate from England so she can open up a salon that can service international customers as well

as thai customers in her hometown Nakorn Ratchasima, considering that Nakorn Ratchasima is a

growing community which many foreigners have recently came into residence, I believe it is a good

investment to go over to the UK and learn the necessary skills and returning to her country to persue

a career that she has always loved. She worked in a salon in 2004-2005 but he never mentioned this

in his comments. After 2005 until today she has helped her mother in the family dog breeding farm

to help as much as she can towards the costs of her study in the UK.

-The officer also mentions a document that doesn't exist (not that I am aware of)

"On an incidental point you have stated you work on a dog breeding farm in Nakorn Ratchasima

(true) and have provided a piece of paper stating that you passed a basic hairdressing course in

Nakorn Ratchasima (true, a statement signed by the salon owner as she hired the applicant and

taught her a Basic Course in hairdressing but she cannot provide a proper certificate because her shop

isn't registered as a hairdressing academy. The applicant also has a letter of confirmation and proof

of her time working there signed by the same person, the owner.) but have provided a photocopied

certificate of achievement in Hair dressing from Bangkok (not true, this is the document that doesn't

exist, I am very confused by this comment)."

This guy not like the last one, never asked if I had any comments to make after the interview. He just

said no.

These were just some of the comments there is (he actually made 5 points in total).

Is it just me or does this officer by any chance maybe confused or misunderstanding some documents.

Or did he not relate this case to her 2 previous refusals because he didn't seem to understand her

situation fully.

The comments he made supporting his decision means that we can not do anything else to correct

the mistakes or to gain a VISA (only maybe being born as a hairdresser's daughter.....as he said that it

is rather a large leap from dog breeding in Thailand to studying in the UK and hairdressing after that

in Thailand.....why didn't he consider her 2004-2005 employment in a hairdressing salon and see

that she has always had interest in hairdressing??).

We have done everything to correct the first 2 refusals, which we thought was very acceptable. But

this decision we really feel is unfair (as the second ECO's decision was supported by a comment that

"it would be more acceptable if you study an English Course here in Thailand before attempting to

study in England."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am wondering whether to appeal or not because I have to be back in England in November and I

want her to come with me and I am concerned that it would take much longer than that for the

result of an appeal to come out. Or would it be overturned in a shorter period of time if they decide

that it was actually a human error by the ECO?

PLEASE ANYONE WHO CAN PLEASE HELP ME.............and HER THANKS

Quote:

Hi,

I am sorry to see that your g/f is having this problem but I am afraid that the advice you have been given so far seems to have hit the nail on the head.

Firstly they would question the need to go to the uk to learn english when there are so many suitable english language schools available in her home country and other ASEAN countries which she could gain admittance without much difficulty.

If she had been travelling to the uk to do a vocational course backed by her employer it would have still been very unlikely to have been granted.

If you look at the application from the EHO's point of view I am sure you can appreciate that she has no real stable employment history, no history of a bank account, and the most important thing of all, she has produced nothing od substance that would allay the fear that she would return to LOS when here visa has expired.

Why is she staying with this family friend rather than yourself? What is the relationship between her and the family friend?

I note that you say she started saving to study in 2005 but it would seem she cannot produce bank accout records that would confirm that.

I am sorry to say that your involvement in the application has also likely clouded the issue, you dont appear to have provided her with any documentation that might have supported her application, why is that?

You were very fortunate to have been allowed to attend her interview with the ECO's, from what Igather this is unusual, as for why the last ECO did not ask if you wanted to make any comments, You are not her sponsor so why were you there and why should you be consulted? Also ask yourself in his sposition would you be suspicious of your involvement?

I dont now how old you are but this may have also raised some concerns. you must appreciate that many people attempt to bring young females into the uk for reasons which are quite different to the reasons stated in the applications, the goverment is highighting people trafficing at the moment and with the best will in the world I am sure that even you must appreciate that

a young lady with no formal educational or vocational qualifications fits the same profile as many of the ladies from around the world and LOS in particular that are caught each year working in the sex industry in the uk and who have often claimed to have been lured to the uk and then exploited by people that they say they trusted.

I am not suggesting this is the situation in this case but these EHO's hve been trained and have likely seen thousands of such applications that give rise to doubt regarding the applicants return when the visa expires.

It is interesting that you say that the last ECO mentioned that your g/f submitted a photocopy of a "Certificate of Achievement" in Hairdressing from BKK.

I was shown one of these "Certificates" for hairdressing by a young lady who saved for 3 years to enrol in a hairdressing school in Udon Thani (apparently these "Hairdressing Schools"are all over the country and at the end of the course all the students went to BKK and stayed at a reasonable hotel for a few days and attended a grand ball where after the banquet each lady ( and there were many from all over the country) photos were taken of each proud Student as they had to go on stage to collect their Certificate of Achievment in Hairdressing for this International acclaimed Hairdresser from the USA.

This "Certificate" may well have impressed these poor ladies who most likely could not read english but as it stated the Student had attended the Course in Las Vegas in or around 1977 when this particular lady would have been around 4 years old I was gutted for her and all the others that had been robbed of their hard earned savings by these leaches.

I understand this scame is still in progress throughout LOS and when I gently advised her of the situation and suggested something should be done to try to get her cash back she was too embarrased to let her friends and family know and woud not allow me to intervene on her behalf with the school for fear of reprisal against her or her famly.

So dont be thinking of sending her to a Hardressing School any time soon!

I am sure this scam has been out for ages, posssibly as far back as 1977 at thats the date on the "Certificate" I saw,

consequently I am fairly confident that the Visa Department is also used to seeing these worthless documents on a regular basis.

I dont know if you actually checked the documents and handed them in yourself or if the g/f did that?

I dont know if the ECO made a genuine error and was confusing the documentation submitted with this application with that of another application or is it possible that you g/f may have been advised by somemoe she trusted that she could obtain a "Certificate" ( for a Fee ofcourse" ) which would help her get her visa?

Personally I would forget the education route and take a long hard look at the situation and proceed with caution should you decide to continue trying to bring her to the uk.

Sorry the news isnt better, but good luck and let us know how you get on.

Roy gsd

[the scouser]

It's not really feasible to give cogent advice without seeing the refusal notices, interview records and the documents which were submitted in support of the applications. However, on the understanding that the course upon which your girlfriend is enrolled is for longer than 6 months, she should have been given a right of appeal. The appeal notice should be submitted within 28 days but is unlikely to be heard for another 7-8 months.

You can consider submitting representations asking that the decision be overturned, but you are going to have to individually address the ECO's reasons for refusal and demonstrate that the decision was so flawed as to be unsustainable.

Scouse.