Could Drunken Air-ragers Open A Door In Flight?

[Trevor]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...s.html?ITO=1490

Could any aircrew state the safety devices in place to prevent doors being opened at altitude?

What does 'arming the doors' prior to take-off mean?

[Carib]

There are no safety devices preventing a door from being opened in flight. It can be done. But..... it will not be easy depending on the kind of door, aerodynamic outside load, and also if the cabin is pressurized or not.

It will take a lot of force to turn the handle if pressurized, or under outside aerodynamic load.

Arming the doors means that as soon as the door will be opened the safety devices, like boats, chutes will be activated, hence the disarming after landing, you donot want to leave a " healthy" aircraft by means of sliding down a chute.

[britmaveric]

Cabin is pressurized I would say No.

http://everything2.com/e2node/Why%2520airp...%2520mid-flight

[sweetchariot]

The door 'frames' are on the outside, so they are naturally kept tight shut by the pressure on the inside.

It would take the incredible Hulk to open one of them.

[britmaveric]

Push in and turn out which literally makes its impossible.

[Carib]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/763341.stm

This guy did it, but the aircraft was not pressurized.

I know of one more example , but cannot find it.

Good article by the way in the link provided by BM.

[joe552]

BBC are reporting that the women have been returned to the UK - I wondered if they shouldn't have been charged in Germany with an 'air rage' offence, or will they likely be charged in the UK?

[Carib]

It is a british company they flew with, so it happened on british " soil " . I guess that is the reason.

[Trevor]

What about spacecraft doors -- are they the same design, i.e. unopenable if pressurized? Didn't the Apollo 1 fire in 1967 force design changes to make opening easier, particularly from the inside?

Why do flights have to divert to disgorge the troublemakers earliest, even after they have been overpowered and restrained? Can't the captain make a balanced decision? In this case it should have been to continue to destination.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Trevor

[britmaveric]

They added exploding hatches so the astronaut could blow it off, once they land.

Edited July 28, 2008 by britmaveric

[IMA_FARANG]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...s.html?ITO=1490

Could any aircrew state the safety devices in place to prevent doors being opened at altitude?

What does 'arming the doors' prior to take-off mean?

The airlines are not happy if you know this, but here's the straight scoop.

The doors could be opened only by a very strong person.

The cabin is presurised to about 5000 feet altitude, at normal flight altitude the pressure outside is lower. If the doors were allowed to open the pressure would force the door out.. unless...

The doors are designed with plugs in them that the air pressure inside the plane forces into slots in the door frame. It would take a very strong person to tear those bolts out. It is designed so a human being couldn't do it. Therefore, for all practical purposes, you wouldn't be able to open the doors is flight.

The doors can be controlled from the cockpit. When you take off the control "doors are armed" is passed to the flight attendents, so that in event of an emergency they can open the doors even if the pilot/co-pilot are passed out. The escape hatches will open when the doors are opened.

But like I said, the doors are designed so that air pressure in the palne forces bolts into the doorframe, and it wouldn't be possible for a person to open the door at altitude. On the ground, however, where air pressure outside and inside the plane is equal, the door opens easily.

Edited July 28, 2008 by IMA_FARANG

[Carib]

IMA Farang, i am sorry , i donot know where you got your airline scoop from, but i suggest you read some other answers and also the link provided by Britmaverick.

There is no way a cocpit crew can " control " the doors, it would be dangerous, in case of an electric failure or severed cables they would never be able to undo what you do suggest, namely unlocking what has been locked.! They can see by indication if there is an open hatch or door, that is all.

There are no plug in bolts in the doors or frame, again this would be dangerous, in case of a crash and stuctural damage to the door or frame, this again could lead to not being able to unlock and open a door.

The whole door is called a plugintype, depending ofcourse on the type of aircraft.

Other doors or hatches are locked with deadbolts or latches, usually cargo doors or over the wing escape hatches, again depending on the type of aircraft.

Arming and unarming the doors, please read post# 2

Edited July 28, 2008 by Carib

[dekka007]

The doors could be opened only by a very strong person.

The cabin is presurised to about 5000 feet altitude, at normal flight altitude the pressure outside is lower. If the doors were allowed to open the pressure would force the door out.. unless...

The doors are designed with plugs in them that the air pressure inside the plane forces into slots in the door frame. It would take a very strong person to tear those bolts out. It is designed so a human being couldn't do it. Therefore, for all practical purposes, you wouldn't be able to open the doors is flight.

The doors can be controlled from the cockpit. When you take off the control "doors are armed" is passed to the flight attendents, so that in event of an emergency they can open the doors even if the pilot/co-pilot are passed out. The escape hatches will open when the doors are opened.

But like I said, the doors are designed so that air pressure in the palne forces bolts into the doorframe, and it wouldn't be possible for a person to open the door at altitude. On the ground, however, where air pressure outside and inside the plane is equal, the door opens easily.

emm...where to start. This post is not correct.

The airlines are not happy if you know this, but here's the straight scoop.

Oh really

To sum it up. On a modern day Pressurised airliner (With pressurisation system running normally). YOU CANNOT open the door - end of story no matter how strong you are. Assuming a Cabin Differential of 7-8PSI.

Edited July 28, 2008 by dekka007

[flightcrew1]

Well here's my two bits and I've been a flight attendant for 25 years.

The door cannot be opened midflight because of aircraft pressurization! Yes in my years of flying I've had people jump up and run to the door and try to open. Of course we stop them from attempting this as it is quite frightening for the passengers and the crew but there is no way that they could open the door.

Now if the cabin becomes depressurized because of explosion or what have you then of course the door could be opened.

Over the PA you hear "cross check" and "cross check complete" and "doors are armed", doors are disarmed".

The voices you hear over the PA system are the flight attendants', not the pilots'. When you hear, "cross-check 1L, 1R – 2L, 2R, etc." or "cross check complete," that is us communicating to each other that the inflatable evacuation slides on the cabin doors are armed or have been disarmed." In the case for departure, the lead flight attendant (me) will then tell the captain that the cabin is secure; thus the plane is ready to push back from the gate.

Depending on the aircraft, the slides are armed by attaching the slide girt bar to the cabin floor (often you'll here a clanging sound), or by pushing down a lever on the door. Flight attendants will then place a flag (or placard) over the door window to warn agents and caterers that the door is armed. At the end of the flight, they will "disarm" the slide, remove the flag (or placard), and state "cross-check or 1L, 1R – 2L, 2R, etc." again to let the lead flight attendant know that all the slides have been "disarmed." Passengers can then "de-plane," and caterers can enter the galley doors.

Arming and disarming the slides is serious business. If the slide is armed and someone (flight attendant, agent, caterer, or mechanic) accidentally opens the door, he or she can be seriously hurt or even killed. Furthermore, it is very expensive when a slide "pops," costing an airline between $10,000 and $50,000 (depending upon the aircraft) per slide in maintenance costs, plus the lost revenue due to the aircraft being temporarily out of service until a new slide is installed. If flight attendants fail their safety duties to arm or disarm their assigned doors, they are subject to leave for re-training, or worse, termination.

[dekka007]

If flight attendants fail their safety duties to arm or disarm their assigned doors, they are subject to leave for re-training, or worse, termination.

Hopefully most of the "quality" airlines have moved away from Termination for this error these days.

I know several otherwise excellent crew members who have blown slides over the years and luckily no one was injured but rest assured they have never done it again!

Although they did get Tea and biscuits in the office. Poor girl she was shaking for hours

[Scott]

So basically, it would be better to be a sober air-rager than a drunken air-rager if you want to open the doors!

[Payboy]

now we know the translation of the announcement on thai airways "yero doors rectal to manure"..... don't open the doors now or the sh!t will hit.....

[sibeymai]

if a passenger somehow did manage to open a door mid-flight it would surely be the last thing they ever did....apart from skydiving without a parachute.

Good reason to always wear the seatbelt.

[meom]

To sum it up. On a modern day Pressurised airliner (With pressurisation system running normally). YOU CANNOT open the door - end of story no matter how strong you are. Assuming a Cabin Differential of 7-8PSI.

So how did DB Cooper jump out of a commercial airliner at 10,000 ft?

[dekka007]

So how did DB Cooper jump out of a commercial airliner at 10,000 ft?

Because if you study about this case. He ordered the descent to 10,000ft therefore sustainable unpressurised and reduced cabin differential and also note that it was the 727 rear stairs he allegedly used and that system is somewhat different to MODERN airliners door systems

Edited July 28, 2008 by dekka007

[tmd5855]

To sum it up. On a modern day Pressurised airliner (With pressurisation system running normally). YOU CANNOT open the door - end of story no matter how strong you are. Assuming a Cabin Differential of 7-8PSI.

So how did DB Cooper jump out of a commercial airliner at 10,000 ft?

The infamous D B. Cooper forced the plane to land under the threat of detonating a bomb that he had in the cabin alongside him. All passanger were sent forward and he had the rear of the aircraft to himself. On landing, to let the passengers go he demanded a cash ransom, which was delivered onboard along with two/three parachutes??.

Plane took off again, Mr. Cooper gave instructions to the pilot on the maximum ceiling to fly at. Aircraft had a rear stair entry under the tail (DC9??) which at the low ceiling he opened the door and exited. Only some marked bills were ever found? Mr. Cooper has never been seen since.

Following this incident, changes were made to these doors

[cgjtt]

So how did DB Cooper jump out of a commercial airliner at 10,000 ft?

DB jumped out from a 727 through the rear stairs access ( ie door ) This door is not a plug type but is equipped with latches to lock and hold the door in place. Unless I'm wrong , he had the plane depressurized before opening the door ( even though he didn't need to). Since then, an aerodynamic lock has been installed on this door, on most if not all 727's ( I've had to replace one a long time ago during a maintenance check).

Airliners pax doors are mostly if not all plug types, BUT cargo doors may be latch types as on the 747, 737, and airbus airplanes. Technically, they could be opened during flight ( and I did say technically ).

[sibeymai]

and the whole system for the rear stairs on a 727 is probably hydraulically operated, but not sure about the actual door.

[cgjtt]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...s.html?ITO=1490

Could any aircrew state the safety devices in place to prevent doors being opened at altitude?

What does 'arming the doors' prior to take-off mean?

The airlines are not happy if you know this, but here's the straight scoop.

The doors could be opened only by a very strong person.

The cabin is presurised to about 5000 feet altitude, at normal flight altitude the pressure outside is lower. If the doors were allowed to open the pressure would force the door out.. unless...

The doors are designed with plugs in them that the air pressure inside the plane forces into slots in the door frame. It would take a very strong person to tear those bolts out. It is designed so a human being couldn't do it. Therefore, for all practical purposes, you wouldn't be able to open the doors is flight.

The doors can be controlled from the cockpit. When you take off the control "doors are armed" is passed to the flight attendents, so that in event of an emergency they can open the doors even if the pilot/co-pilot are passed out. The escape hatches will open when the doors are opened.

But like I said, the doors are designed so that air pressure in the palne forces bolts into the doorframe, and it wouldn't be possible for a person to open the door at altitude. On the ground, however, where air pressure outside and inside the plane is equal, the door opens easily.

Oh boy , this is really good stuff, and what movie was this.

[huggybear]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...s.html?ITO=1490

Could any aircrew state the safety devices in place to prevent doors being opened at altitude?

What does 'arming the doors' prior to take-off mean?

From CNN's article on the Quantas jet blowout:

"But he said "there was never any danger of the door opening" because it is designed never to be opened while the plane is in the air."

about halfway down this page:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...n.ap/index.html

[Familyonthemove]

Well here's my two bits and I've been a flight attendant for 25 years.

The door cannot be opened midflight because of aircraft pressurization! Yes in my years of flying I've had people jump up and run to the door and try to open. Of course we stop them from attempting this as it is quite frightening for the passengers and the crew but there is no way that they could open the door.

Now if the cabin becomes depressurized because of explosion or what have you then of course the door could be opened.

Over the PA you hear "cross check" and "cross check complete" and "doors are armed", doors are disarmed".

The voices you hear over the PA system are the flight attendants', not the pilots'. When you hear, "cross-check 1L, 1R – 2L, 2R, etc." or "cross check complete," that is us communicating to each other that the inflatable evacuation slides on the cabin doors are armed or have been disarmed." In the case for departure, the lead flight attendant (me) will then tell the captain that the cabin is secure; thus the plane is ready to push back from the gate.

Depending on the aircraft, the slides are armed by attaching the slide girt bar to the cabin floor (often you'll here a clanging sound), or by pushing down a lever on the door. Flight attendants will then place a flag (or placard) over the door window to warn agents and caterers that the door is armed. At the end of the flight, they will "disarm" the slide, remove the flag (or placard), and state "cross-check or 1L, 1R – 2L, 2R, etc." again to let the lead flight attendant know that all the slides have been "disarmed." Passengers can then "de-plane," and caterers can enter the galley doors.

Arming and disarming the slides is serious business. If the slide is armed and someone (flight attendant, agent, caterer, or mechanic) accidentally opens the door, he or she can be seriously hurt or even killed. Furthermore, it is very expensive when a slide "pops," costing an airline between $10,000 and $50,000 (depending upon the aircraft) per slide in maintenance costs, plus the lost revenue due to the aircraft being temporarily out of service until a new slide is installed. If flight attendants fail their safety duties to arm or disarm their assigned doors, they are subject to leave for re-training, or worse, termination.

Excellent, clear and reassuring answer ...... but what we really want to know is 'How do you get an upgrade'?

[Spee]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...s.html?ITO=1490

Gotta love the accuracy in reporting .......

"... drunken rampage on jumbo ..."

"... incident happened on an XL Airways Boeing 737 ..."

Then the picture shown is a narrow body Airbus.

Edit: "... with 214 passengers and seven crew on board ..."

Nothing like a sensationalizing headline to over-ride the need for facts and accuracy.

Anyway, I hope these women enjoyed their flight. With the exception their return to the UK and a possible return to Germany for prosecution, I doubt they will be flying commercially again any time soon.

Edited July 30, 2008 by Spee

[dingdongrb]

To sum it up. On a modern day Pressurised airliner (With pressurisation system running normally). YOU CANNOT open the door - end of story no matter how strong you are. Assuming a Cabin Differential of 7-8PSI.

So how did DB Cooper jump out of a commercial airliner at 10,000 ft?

The infamous D B. Cooper forced the plane to land under the threat of detonating a bomb that he had in the cabin alongside him. All passanger were sent forward and he had the rear of the aircraft to himself. On landing, to let the passengers go he demanded a cash ransom, which was delivered onboard along with two/three parachutes??.

Plane took off again, Mr. Cooper gave instructions to the pilot on the maximum ceiling to fly at. Aircraft had a rear stair entry under the tail (DC9??) which at the low ceiling he opened the door and exited. Only some marked bills were ever found? Mr. Cooper has never been seen since.

Following this incident, changes were made to these doors

Actually I was playing poker last night with Dan (DB) Cooper, Jimmy Hoffa, and Elvis..... Of course I won!

[bachelor]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...s.html?ITO=1490

Could any aircrew state the safety devices in place to prevent doors being opened at altitude?

What does 'arming the doors' prior to take-off mean?

The airlines are not happy if you know this, but here's the straight scoop.

The doors could be opened only by a very strong person.

The cabin is presurised to about 5000 feet altitude, at normal flight altitude the pressure outside is lower. If the doors were allowed to open the pressure would force the door out.. unless...

The doors are designed with plugs in them that the air pressure inside the plane forces into slots in the door frame. It would take a very strong person to tear those bolts out. It is designed so a human being couldn't do it. Therefore, for all practical purposes, you wouldn't be able to open the doors is flight.

The doors can be controlled from the cockpit. When you take off the control "doors are armed" is passed to the flight attendents, so that in event of an emergency they can open the doors even if the pilot/co-pilot are passed out. The escape hatches will open when the doors are opened.

But like I said, the doors are designed so that air pressure in the palne forces bolts into the doorframe, and it wouldn't be possible for a person to open the door at altitude. On the ground, however, where air pressure outside and inside the plane is equal, the door opens easily.

Oh boy , this is really good stuff, and what movie was this.

I think it was Concorde 80 ?? ( year ) along when the captain opened the front slide window to fire his hand gun !!

Sorry...off topic