I Am Amazed At How Bad The Spelling And Grammar Can Be On Job Applications

[dingdongrb]

I have to say that being able to read and write English is not only a prerequisite for a job application but should also be noted it will (could) affect a person once hired.

Case in point: I work in the electronics high tech industry. I was recruited and hired directly by a new VP of Operations since he and I had worked together in the past. My new position was with a small startup company that wanted to grow within the industry. In the company there was senior level manager over the skilled laborers who had very poor writing skills. This irritated the mentioned VP because you actually needed a 'secret decoding ring' just to make clear the understanding of the emails and reports this manager had prepared. Well needless to say within 6 months this manager was let go from the company and I suspect it was due to his insufficient grammar skills which made the VP look foolish since he had a 'hillbilly' for a staff member.

[garro]

I have to say that being able to read and write English is not only a prerequisite for a job application but should also be noted it will (could) affect a person once hired.

Case in point: I work in the electronics high tech industry. I was recruited and hired directly by a new VP of Operations since he and I had worked together in the past. My new position was with a small startup company that wanted to grow within the industry. In the company there was senior level manager over the skilled laborers who had very poor writing skills. This irritated the mentioned VP because you actually needed a 'secret decoding ring' just to make clear the understanding of the emails and reports this manager had prepared. Well needless to say within 6 months this manager was let go from the company and I suspect it was due to his insufficient grammar skills which made the VP look foolish since he had a 'hillbilly' for a staff member.

I would say that the ability to read and write are very desirable qualities in an English teacher .

[dingdongrb]

I have to say that being able to read and write English is not only a prerequisite for a job application but should also be noted it will (could) affect a person once hired.

Case in point: I work in the electronics high tech industry. I was recruited and hired directly by a new VP of Operations since he and I had worked together in the past. My new position was with a small startup company that wanted to grow within the industry. In the company there was senior level manager over the skilled laborers who had very poor writing skills. This irritated the mentioned VP because you actually needed a 'secret decoding ring' just to make clear the understanding of the emails and reports this manager had prepared. Well needless to say within 6 months this manager was let go from the company and I suspect it was due to his insufficient grammar skills which made the VP look foolish since he had a 'hillbilly' for a staff member.

I would say that the ability to read and write are very desirable qualities in an English teacher .

I totally agree with you garro that it is probably more important if one is applying for an English teaching position. My point was made to show that it is (can be) expected throughout the entire work industry.

[Bangyai]

Thats nothing. A long time ago when I was Curriculum Director at ECC, there was a three tier pay system for Farangs, beginner, standard, experienced. Everyone wanted to be on the top wack so when people came looking for a job they always put down ' experienced ' on their application. It often happened that once they started teaching it was obvious they had been telling porkies. Soooooo.... I devised a very short and simple grammer test to sort the wheat from the chaff. It had to be short and simple because my own grammer was my achillies heal ( Dangling what ???). I was gob smacked at the number of ' experienced ' teachers who didn't know a tense from tennis or a verb from an adverb. Needless to say...most applicants broke into a cold sweat at the mere mention of a grammer test and the idea was soon dropped as most objected to taking it.

?????

It's not rocket-surgery is it Mr Hippo?

Its a fair cop garro and Mr Hippo.....I'll come quietly....no need for the cuffs. Ha,ha, yes my students often noticed my spelling mistakes and if I tried to pass them off as deliberate they never fell for it. Phew...just glad I'll never have to teach again. As a matter of interest, back then 6 out of 10 teachers wanted to quit but couldn't as it was the only work they could find here. Whats the ratio these days ???

[Bangyai]

Thats nothing. A long time ago when I was Curriculum Director at ECC, there was a three tier pay system for Farangs, beginner, standard, experienced. Everyone wanted to be on the top wack so when people came looking for a job they always put down ' experienced ' on their application. It often happened that once they started teaching it was obvious they had been telling porkies. Soooooo.... I devised a very short and simple grammer test to sort the wheat from the chaff. It had to be short and simple because my own grammer was my achillies heal ( Dangling what ???). I was gob smacked at the number of ' experienced ' teachers who didn't know a tense from tennis or a verb from an adverb. Needless to say...most applicants broke into a cold sweat at the mere mention of a grammer test and the idea was soon dropped as most objected to taking it.

?????

It's not rocket-surgery is it Mr Hippo?

Its a fair cop garro and Mr Hippo.....I'll come quietly....no need for the cuffs. Ha,ha, yes my students often noticed my spelling mistakes and if I tried to pass them off as deliberate they never fell for it. Phew...just glad I'll never have to teach again. As a matter of interest, back then 6 out of 10 teachers wanted to quit but couldn't as it was the only work they could find here. Whats the ratio these days ???

But surely you mean rocket science.??? Rocket surgery ?? Got a seriously sick rocket there eh ????

[garro]

Thats nothing. A long time ago when I was Curriculum Director at ECC, there was a three tier pay system for Farangs, beginner, standard, experienced. Everyone wanted to be on the top wack so when people came looking for a job they always put down ' experienced ' on their application. It often happened that once they started teaching it was obvious they had been telling porkies. Soooooo.... I devised a very short and simple grammer test to sort the wheat from the chaff. It had to be short and simple because my own grammer was my achillies heal ( Dangling what ???). I was gob smacked at the number of ' experienced ' teachers who didn't know a tense from tennis or a verb from an adverb. Needless to say...most applicants broke into a cold sweat at the mere mention of a grammer test and the idea was soon dropped as most objected to taking it.

?????

It's not rocket-surgery is it Mr Hippo?

Its a fair cop garro and Mr Hippo.....I'll come quietly....no need for the cuffs. Ha,ha, yes my students often noticed my spelling mistakes and if I tried to pass them off as deliberate they never fell for it. Phew...just glad I'll never have to teach again. As a matter of interest, back then 6 out of 10 teachers wanted to quit but couldn't as it was the only work they could find here. Whats the ratio these days ???

But surely you mean rocket science.??? Rocket surgery ?? Got a seriously sick rocket there eh ????

Mr Hippo invented the new word 'rocket-surgery' on this forum a few months ago.

Edited August 17, 2008 by garro

[simon43]

Can I just say that I am probably the only ThaiVisa member who has genuinely been employed as a rocket scientist?

.. I'll get my coat now

Simon

[garro]

Can I just say that I am probably the only ThaiVisa member who has genuinely been employed as a rocket scientist?

.. I'll get my coat now

Simon

A rocket scientist does not carry much weight around these parts.

A rocket-surgeon though, that's impressive

[simon43]

Garro, I am sorry but I really cannot match Mr Hippo's exotic career. My work was tedious and involved no life-saving surgery on ailing space hardware...

As an aside (to keep this post on-topic), how good are your applicants at correct use of apostrophees? (No, I maybe didn't spell that correctly and I am currently not an English teacher...)

Simon

Edited August 17, 2008 by simon43

[mr_hippo]

Mr Hippo invented the new word 'rocket-surgery' on this forum a few months ago.

Yes, I first posted the phrase 'rocket surgery' on this site but the 'inventor' was my grandma - Mary Ellen Naylor (1880-1969).

I first heard her saying to one of my younger brothers "It's not brain science or rocket surgery." and it stuck with my family!

[PeaceBlondie]

Earlier this year, I interviewed for a TEFL job at a private school that paid 20,000 baht per month. The interviewer said she had a lot of applicants who could not even name the parts of speech. At that salary, she should be lucky that they could even speak.

[toasted]

I interviewed someone who claimed to have a PhD. Unfortunately for him the certificate stated that his qualification was in 'Philosaphy'!

[stevejones123]

Garro, mate, sorry and all that, but take a review of your spelling in this post (sloopy) ?

No offence intended but if you live by the sword etc

There are actually various terms to describe the trap Garro has fallen into, such as Hartman's Law of Prescriptive Retaliation, McKean's law, or Muhpry's Law.

[Nongwahyay]

While we´re on the subject of poor spelling and incorrect grammar, can´t we make it a rule on Thaivisa that at least native speakers know how to use apostrophes, can differentiate between "your" and "you´re", know how to use "its" and "it´s" and have mastered the use of "there" and "their", before their posts are allowed to appear??? I know it´s an old topic and gets the back up of various people (who can´t spell...) - and I know I´ll be howled down here - but it´s really pathetic to read the same mistakes over and over again from "native speakers", who should know better!!

[Cobalt60]

Just because you grew up in the UK and English is your native language, it does not mean you paid attention at school.

You may of late, been in a class where English is a second language to the majority of your class mates.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Cobalt60

[PeaceBlondie]

While we´re on the subject of poor spelling and incorrect grammar, can´t we make it a rule on Thaivisa that at least native speakers know how to use apostrophes, can differentiate between "your" and "you´re", know how to use "its" and "it´s" and have mastered the use of "there" and "their", before their posts are allowed to appear??? I know it´s an old topic and gets the back up of various people (who can´t spell...) - and I know I´ll be howled down here - but it´s really pathetic to read the same mistakes over and over again from "native speakers", who should know better!!

Thanks, nonwahyay, but we cannot really even make it a rule on the Teaching Forum, although I share your concerns. The most we have is an informal rule that you cannot criticize another person's mistakes in writing, unless they set themselves up as a fussy pedant. But as we have pointed out in this thread, it should be instant trashbin time to receive an application for a TEFL teacher who makes mistakes in his application.

[cophen]

While we´re on the subject of poor spelling and incorrect grammar, can´t we make it a rule on Thaivisa that at least native speakers know how to use apostrophes,

Pity the poor grocers

[PeaceBlondie]

Even when I had good hand coordination, it was not easy to spell apostrophes.

[Lancashirelad]

Was recently looking at a website of an allegedly professional UK chauffeured limo hire service. Seems they don't even know the difference between "are" and "our." Laughable!

I though "its" was the only word that always carried an exception in the need for an apostrophe?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[PeaceBlondie]

Was recently looking at a website of an allegedly professional UK chauffeured limo hire service. Seems they don't even know the difference between "are" and "our." Laughable!

I though "its" was the only word that always carried an exception in the need for an apostrophe?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I think you may be right. I recently met a non-teacher from England who got a public education (meaning, private), and he was surprised to hear that its does not have an apostrophe. I insisted (please, anybody, correct me if I am wrong) that it's always means it is. In other words, the apostrophe in the pronoun is an abbreviation for the letter i.

[mbkudu]

I insisted (please, anybody, correct me if I am wrong) that it's always means it is. In other words, the apostrophe in the pronoun is an abbreviation for the letter i.

[it's] can also mean [it has].

[Beacher]

I remember talking to friend who took a TESOL course many years ago, and he was shocked that the only student in the class who failed the grammar test portion of the course was a guy from the US who had supposedly graduated with a B.A. in English.

I believe my friend's story but always wondered if the grammar-troubled student lied on his course application or if he was really awarded a degree in English without actually learning much about the language. It seems from the posts I've read here, that the latter is true.

[PeaceBlondie]

I insisted (please, anybody, correct me if I am wrong) that it's always means it is. In other words, the apostrophe in the pronoun is an abbreviation for the letter i.

[it's] can also mean [it has].

Thanks. It's been a long decade already. But the general rule would remain, would it not? That the possessive pronoun has no apostrophe, and only the contracted forms do? If the salt has lost its savour, it's not salty?

[Ijustwannateach]

As far as I know you're right, PB, but a rule unfortunately honoured far too often in the breach than the observance. The use of 'it's' to mean 'it has' is informal and usually not recommended in writing, as far as I was taught.

[Beacher]

As far as I know you're right, PB, but a rule unfortunately honoured far too often in the breach than the observance. The use of 'it's' to mean 'it has' is informal and usually not recommended in writing, as far as I was taught.

That's not quite the way I learned it.

If we say, "It's a nice day today." the 's part replaces the word "is" because the sentence is in the present simple tense, but if we say, "It's been a long time since I last saw you." the 's part replaces the word "has" because we're using a tense called the present perfect, which requires the use of the word "have/has" followed by a past participle.

But as Ijustwannateach has pointed out, use of informal contractions is not proper when writing formal letters. However, if I was writing to a long lost friend, I'd have no hesitation using the sentence, "It's been a long time since I last saw you."

I used to teach English in a past life (thank gawd it's a past life) and hope I wasn't misleading my poor students.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Beacher

[mbkudu]

It's a tit mouse and its tail's long'n fuzzy.

[Lancashirelad]

Unfortunately i speak very little Thai, something i hope to resolve in the future.

Am i right in thinking that the Thai language has no tense? If so, how the heck do you refer to something that happened before, is happening now, or will happen in the future?

I still fail to understand how on earth anyone who is not 100% fluent in Thai, can teach English to Thai speakers.

If someone were teaching me Thai, i need to know what that particular word/sentence/phrase means in English. Same principle applies.

Speak a second language, but always think in your mother tongue.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Lancashirelad

[PeaceBlondie]

Unfortunately i speak very little Thai, something i hope to resolve in the future.

Am i right in thinking that the Thai language has no tense? If so, how the heck do you refer to something that happened before, is happening now, or will happen in the future?

I still fail to understand how on earth anyone who is not 100% fluent in Thai, can teach English to Thai speakers.

If someone were teaching me Thai, i need to know what that particular word/sentence/phrase means in English. Same principle applies.

Speak a second language, but always think in your mother tongue.

Welcome to the Teaching in Thailand forum, where most teachers of EFL do not speak Thai in class, even if we are fully fluent in Thai.

Even in languages that have time tenses, adverbs of time often tell when something happened. Anyway, you do not need to know a single word of L1 (native language of students) to teach L2.

Nevertheless, your post is off topic. Please browse through our similar threads on this different subject..

[tgeezer]

Was recently looking at a website of an allegedly professional UK chauffeured limo hire service. Seems they don't even know the difference between "are" and "our." Laughable!

I though "its" was the only word that always carried an exception in the need for an apostrophe?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

As a pronoun the posessive form of it is 'its',eg. the dog fell on its ass. 'It's' could mean 'it is' (slang) or 'it has' up to you, better not to abbreviate at all if you fear criticism, but then, if we feared that we would never write anything. Rainy day here in England!

[Cool Water Palace]

Remember this rule and I'll love you to bits:

"Belonging to it" is NOT written "it's".

If it has an apostrophe in front of the "s",

Does it mean "it is"? The answer is yes.

"Belonging to it" is easy to call:

It's "its" - no apostrophe, no none at all.

I came across this rhyme some years ago in a graduate magazine. There was no copyright acknowledgement, so I give none here. I can give reference to the source if asked. I'd been meaning to drag this into an appropriate thread or start a separate one for some time, but this seems as good an opportunity as I'll get.

I have made a slight addition, as in the original, there was no comma at the end of line 3.