PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[Colonel_Mustard]

And do you dissolve a political party that is supported by the majority of Thailand because of some vote buying?

Which party in Thailand is it that is supported by the majority of people? It certainly isn't the PPP, considering over 60% of Thais did not vote for them, and indeed voted for parties that campaigned as the opposition to them.

Nor is it the PAD who nobody voted for as they don't believe they need a mandate to dictate how the country should be run.

I doubt any party is supported by the majority of the people.

[animatic]

Has it been dissolved? And as things stand it has the legal mandate to change the constitution. You don't have to like that - but if we are genuinely concerned with the application of law in Thailand- then we must respect the current status of the government. Otherwise we have taken it upon ourselves to become the judges of who can govern and who can't. I'm surprised that the PAD which claims to want to bring the rule of law into government doesn't recognize this.

As things stand this is the govenment- and they have the constitutional ability to initiate changes to the constitution.

Yes, Justification Number (?) for the PAD overthrow: "They're trying to change the constitution!!!" : make no sense to me.

Every good constitution can be legally changed. There are procedures to change the constitution that should not be easy by design. Were the PPP breaking any laws in their attempt to change the constitution? I've seen no evidence that they were.

If you murder someone, and you have the power to change the law than it is complete OK to kill someone???

Try it with common sense.

They were found at vote buying and try to change the law so vote buying does not cause much problems for them.

It is legal....In North Korea are other things legal. In the German Empire it was legal to kill Jews.

But that does not mean that it is OK, just because it is possible by self-made laws.

Hear hear h90 exactly!

This was what PPP has been trying to do.

Legislate their right to do as they please to anyone they please.

Of course they have providing they operate within legal guidelines. Those are determined ultimately by courts. The very checks and balances that the PAD wants so badly to restore. Do you not see the absurdity of a group of people trying to change the government extra-constitutionally because the government is trying to constitutionally change the constitution. In other words- to illegally oust a government for legally attempting to change the law. kind of weird huh?

Not unlike (on a much smaller scale- mps in a western country voting themselves wages- and you know what- we allow them to do that. We just don't vote for them next time-

Yes it has it's paradox to some extent,

BUT in this case THIS is the government trying

to change the laws to save itself as a political party from dissoloution,

and members individually from banishment to hold office legally

and doing it RETRO ACTIVELY of their crimes.

It may be possible to do constitutionally,

but it sure as hel_l is WRONG. And opens the door to

future abuses on a massive scale.

One look at the list of things these guys are charged with

from the last 5-8 years and the scale of write your own ticket

abuse potential is staggering.

As some one said:

commit theft and then re-write the law to make it OK.

That is NOT what good government should be doing.

[Crushdepth]

It's certainly no wonder why the government isn't welcome (and holds no seats) in the south. Bag, trucks and asphixiation...well I guess it got rid of those dam_n dirty protestors!

Are you refering to PAD's new leader, Gen. Pallop who slaughtered all those Moslems at the Krue Sae Mosque? No? I thought not, you all seem so quiet on that point.

Crushdepth- once the army was freed of the strangling yoke of Thaksin, what penalty was meted out to the Officer who commanded that the suspect insurgents be put in the trucks? Or was the decision that Thaksin went down there and ordered those people suffocated?

As far as I know, nobody was ever punished (not sure), the following is from Wikipedia. I saw Thaksin give the disgusting statement referenced below - it was during a doorstop interview and he said that in English.

This incident sparked widespread protests across the south, and indeed across Thailand, since many non-Muslim Thais were appalled at the army's behaviour. Thaksin, however, gave the army his full support. Those responsible for the ill-treatment and death of the detainees received the most minor of non-custodial punishments. Thaksin's initial response was to defend the army's actions, saying that the 78 men died "because they were already weak from fasting during the month of Ramadan."

Edited August 30, 2008 by Crushdepth

[Bangyai]

Yes, just been listening to the press conference of the coalition parties at the Peninsular hotel. A bit like this forum....lots of clucking but not many eggs. In brief , they have announced that they are united in their intention not to step down and that they will continue to give their full support to the PM. They also said that they do not intend to use force to end the dispute. They are holding a meeting of all parties tomorrow in an effort to find a solution to the problem that will be agreeable to all attending parties. When asked if they would consider stepping down the answer was no on the grounds that if this govournment steps aside to please a minority of the people then it would set a precedent and that in future, whoever was in power, would be equaly subject to the whims of mob rule. Samak was not in attendance.

[Tony Clifton]

Wonder why Samak didn't make the meeting with HM yesterday?

Must of been busy...

Wife says he was turned down twice so far within 24hrs.

I wouldn`t be surprised they had the nerve to initiate or try to force an audience in Hua Hin, hence the few false alarms we saw in the newspapers. Like the grand master in London, you can read them like a book.

He`s clueless about what to do now, why he hasn`t resigned yet.

The lot of them must be banging their heads on the wall.

Smak will be on tv shortly before 11 pm apparently.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[Moonrakers]

Wonder why Samak didn't make the meeting with HM yesterday?

Must of been busy...

Wife says he was turned down twice so far within 24hrs.

I wouldn`t be surprised they had the nerve to initiate or try to force an audience in Hua Hin, hence the few false alarms we saw in the newspapers. Like the grand master in London, you can read them like a book.

He`s clueless about what to do now, why he hasn`t resigned yet.

The lot of them must be banging their heads on the wall.

Smak will be on tv shortly before 11 pm apparently.

Do you know which channel Tony?

[Tony Clifton]

Well I think we can quit advising the Thai government now Mr. Samak has it figured out no matter how he approaches the problem he is going to be wrong.

He is definetly painted into a corner

I think he may have worked out that the only way he has out of this is to do absolutely nothing about the PAD whatsoever so that over time, enough people get tired of them that they have to go home.

It is a free weekend in Bangkok. Thousands are on strike. If this was the represenatitive opinion of Thailand there would 500,000 protesting and massive nationwide protest. He hasn't had the official word to stand down from the highest authority. The longer he holds out, the longer and longer PAD looks toothless. Can they sit in the park for 6 months?

Then the whole country will come to a complete start from what`s already started.

[Tony Clifton]

The end point being..

Were these weapons fired?

Yes.

Thankfully no one was hit directly.

I'm not an anti PAD ranter like so many on this forum! But, and I might have missed something out of the 24/7 Channel 5 the spouse has on, but when where? With the rolling video clips of clashes with the police, would have thought I'd have spotted one with firearms being discharged! Whether they hit their mark or not.

It can clearly be seen on ASTVs 24h web-cast.

And large tear gas clouds coming after launch of tear gas grenades are kinda hard to miss, together with the people throwing themselfs out of the clouds...

Okay. First off. I think I've already said ASTV is on the television 24 bloody 7. Not that I'm complaining.

And secondly. I did see the tear gas, so you can cut the sarcasm. Were the bullets discharged into the vapour and I missed it? As I've said. I am NOT anti PAD.

yesterday at the police station was shooting and one woman got hit on the side...source my wife who was there. Our accounting had some itching from the tear gas, but today she was OK again.

Seen three bullet recipients so far on the PAD stage.

[animatic]

Not unlike (on a much smaller scale- mps in a western country voting themselves wages- and you know what- we allow them to do that. We just don't vote for them next time-

You don't seem to appreciate the danger of a political party that wants to change the constitution to allow votebuying.

Are you for real? What are you going to do if your govenrment wants to change your constitution to turn your country into a police state? Well, they are entitled?

The proposed change won't allow vote buying as well you know. I can only assume you are trying to mislead people. The change just would not dissolve the whole party for it.

And THAT little line opens the flood gates again.

And if they get that far, why stop and just repeal the whole thing.

Neuter the election commission too.

If the parties don't fall for institutiojnalized vote buying,

there is NO INCCENTIVE for them to stop it.

[Tony Clifton]

Wonder why Samak didn't make the meeting with HM yesterday?

Must of been busy...

Wife says he was turned down twice so far within 24hrs.

I wouldn`t be surprised they had the nerve to initiate or try to force an audience in Hua Hin, hence the few false alarms we saw in the newspapers. Like the grand master in London, you can read them like a book.

He`s clueless about what to do now, why he hasn`t resigned yet.

The lot of them must be banging their heads on the wall.

Smak will be on tv shortly before 11 pm apparently.

Do you know which channel Tony?

All of the public ones I guess, 1 3 5 7 9 11.

She says 10:55pm.

I wonder if he`s hiding in the washroom yet, hiding from those nasty journalists?

Maybe he`ll just stare out into space for 15 minutes again

Time for him to change seat, much lower in hisory than he previously was.

Som nam na.

As Bulmercke says, they`ll have the nreve to replace him with more scum.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[animatic]

Yes, just been listening to the press conference of the coalition parties at the Peninsular hotel. A bit like this forum....lots of clucking but not many eggs. In brief , they have announced that they are united in their intention not to step down and that they will continue to give their full support to the PM. They also said that they do not intend to use force to end the dispute. They are holding a meeting of all parties tomorrow in an effort to find a solution to the problem that will be agreeable to all attending parties. When asked if they would consider stepping down the answer was no on the grounds that if this govournment steps aside to please a minority of the people then it would set a precedent and that in future, whoever was in power, would be equaly subject to the whims of mob rule. Samak was not in attendance.

Anybody wanna bet against Dr. T. having made a phone call to the group?

Unity boys, how much you need?

[lifeisrandom]

Samak seems intent on dragging this out huh?

[philstone]

If you murder someone, and you have the power to change the law than it is complete OK to kill someone???

Try it with common sense.

They were found at vote buying and try to change the law so vote buying does not cause much problems for them.

It is legal....In North Korea are other things legal. In the German Empire it was legal to kill Jews.

But that does not mean that it is OK, just because it is possible by self-made laws.

This is true only God's law is true,So lets us pray to God for Peace

[tropo]

Samak seems intent on dragging this out huh?

What would you expect? Should elected leaders just throw in the towel whenever a crowd of protesters turn up at their gates?

I'll be very disappointed if he steps down.

[h90]

Yes, just been listening to the press conference of the coalition parties at the Peninsular hotel. A bit like this forum....lots of clucking but not many eggs. In brief , they have announced that they are united in their intention not to step down and that they will continue to give their full support to the PM. They also said that they do not intend to use force to end the dispute. They are holding a meeting of all parties tomorrow in an effort to find a solution to the problem that will be agreeable to all attending parties. When asked if they would consider stepping down the answer was no on the grounds that if this govournment steps aside to please a minority of the people then it would set a precedent and that in future, whoever was in power, would be equaly subject to the whims of mob rule. Samak was not in attendance.

Anybody wanna bet against Dr. T. having made a phone call to the group?

Unity boys, how much you need?

Yes from the nation:

Coalition leaders say the government will stay and Samak remains the PM

Deputy Prime Minister Surapong Suebwonglee accompanied by coalition parties' leaders told thDeputy Prime Minister Surapong Suebwonglee accompanied by coalition parties' leaders told the press conference at the Penninsula Hotel that PM Samak will not resign.

The coalition leaders told repoters that the government will work through the Parliamentary system to solve the problem. They say the coalition parties would continue working together and that Samak is stil the premiere.

"Nothing changes," a number of leaders said after the end of press conference.

Joining the press conference that ended at about 10.30pm are People Power Party secretary-general Surapong Suebwonglee, Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa, Pracharaj Party leader Snoh Thienthong, Matchima Tipataya Party leader Anongwan Thepsutin and Puea Pandin Party spokesman Chaiyos Jiramethakorn.

However, Samak was not present at the press conference and the coalition members said that the PM is very busy. They said they would discuss the ongoing matters with Samak tomorrow.

The coaltion leaders tried to avoid talking about PAD. Surapong said that the government can continue working despite the People's Alliance Democracy's rally that occupies the Government House.

The Nation

[frodo]

It is true, according to the Nation, that pro-government forces are now forming and will march at 7AM Sunday. This must be PPP's new plan and reason to support Samak. Only yesterday, coalition parties were jumping ship, tonight they stand united. They will create a greater diversity greater than exists right now, and allow Samak to finally get his state of emergency. For the pro-government people cheerleaders, it is obvious the government which is no better than PAD, and in many ways even worse. For any government unable to find practical solutions, then employ citizens and place them in real danger is totally shameful.

Thousans of pro-governemnt people gather at Sanam Luang

Thousands of pro-government held a demonstration to counter the People's Alliance for Democracy Saturday evening.

They said they would demonstrate peacefully to show support for the government and would march to Parliament.

Initially, a few hundreds of them gathered in the afternoon but their number grew in the evening after some taxi community radio statios urged taxi driers to come out to join the rally.

The Nation

Pro-government demonstrators to march Parliament at 7 am

The pro-government demonstrators plan to march from Sanam Luang to Parliament at 7 am to show moral support to Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej.

They plan to rally at Sanam Luang throughout the night.

They said they would use the route to avoid protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy.

The Nation

[h90]

It is true, according to the Nation, that pro-government forces are now forming and will march at 7AM Sunday. This must be PPP's new plan and reason to support Samak. Only yesterday, coalition parties were jumping ship, tonight they stand united. They will create a greater diversity greater than exists right now, and allow Samak to finally get his state of emergency. For the pro-government people cheerleaders, it is obvious the government which is no better than PAD, and in many ways even worse. For any government unable to find practical solutions, then employ citizens and place them in real danger is totally shameful.

Thousans of pro-governemnt people gather at Sanam Luang

Thousands of pro-government held a demonstration to counter the People's Alliance for Democracy Saturday evening.

They said they would demonstrate peacefully to show support for the government and would march to Parliament.

Initially, a few hundreds of them gathered in the afternoon but their number grew in the evening after some taxi community radio statios urged taxi driers to come out to join the rally.

The Nation

Pro-government demonstrators to march Parliament at 7 am

The pro-government demonstrators plan to march from Sanam Luang to Parliament at 7 am to show moral support to Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej.

They plan to rally at Sanam Luang throughout the night.

They said they would use the route to avoid protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy.

The Nation

Most probably they take some army or police from outside in normal clothes...scary

PAD does not look very scared.

[RadioCityMike]

Samak seems intent on dragging this out huh?

Even if he wanted to quit, he has a duty to his supporters not to. I doubt he would quit. He is not allowed to use force so the demonstrations will go on until they get tired and go home. I think that may be why the PPP supporters will try to incite violence to force the police to act on the current situation. No one should ever label a coup as bloodless for a least 5 years.

[animatic]

Desperate men taking desperate actions,

and risking the lives of so many little people to do it.

Shameful to be sure.

[keemapoot]

Meanwhile, the Phuket thread hasn't been loading for the last 30 minutes or so.

[Tony Clifton]

Airports are seized and the Train stations had ceased working.

Other major problems here and there..

As an investor in Thailand, I've to go with whatever that ends this thing fast, and that would include Mr. Sammak to come down from the throne and the Thai Rak Thai former Ministers to stop all of their political actions.

Maybe just let the Democrat rise, but maybe Thaksin will try to seek revenge that way.

Anyways, just end this mob fast, and us investors would be more than happy that the politics are improving.

You pay him way much more respect than he truly deserves.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[Thai at Heart]

Samak seems intent on dragging this out huh?

Even if he wanted to quit, he has a duty to his supporters not to. I doubt he would quit. He is not allowed to use force so the demonstrations will go on until they get tired and go home. I think that may be why the PPP supporters will try to incite violence to force the police to act on the current situation. No one should ever label a coup as bloodless for a least 5 years.

This is Thailand. He will find it very difficult to fall on sword for some unconfirmed common good. It would also set a very dangerous precedent which I am sure some pretty important people realise may not necessarily be the best result for the country either. There have been PMs deposed by coups. There have been PMs told to step down because the CIA claimed they were drug dealers. There is not a precedent for this in Thailand.

If the top tells him to go, he can go with some kind of face. If the army come in he can have some kind of face.

He may find a way to survive if he can draw this out to the middle of next week and the general population get seriously pissed off with the unions for striking and there being no trains. It also gives time for PPP support to get organised also. It may happen, it may not. But his stated refusal to stand down is a bid to buy time, which from the situation he is right now is pretty much his only option.

[Insight]

Meanwhile, the Phuket thread hasn't been loading for the last 30 minutes or so.

Noticed that. Thought it was this crappy connection I'm on at first. Doubt there's any "foul play" going on though...?

[animatic]

'Down from his perch' would be much better stated,

and in this case in better taste....

And edit might really be in order...

[Tony Clifton]

Just reported on Channel 7 - Samak isn't going to resign and has the full support of the PPP (according to an extremely irate wife of mine - honestly can't blame her).

Good news!! I'm happy Samak is standing up to the PAD - you let the PAD have their way then this will continue to happen year after year. :D

Get some facial tissue for Tuesday.

D-Day.

Dissolution day

Edited August 30, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[animatic]

Samak seems intent on dragging this out huh?

Even if he wanted to quit, he has a duty to his supporters not to. I doubt he would quit. He is not allowed to use force so the demonstrations will go on until they get tired and go home. I think that may be why the PPP supporters will try to incite violence to force the police to act on the current situation. No one should ever label a coup as bloodless for a least 5 years.

This is Thailand. He will find it very difficult to fall on sword for some unconfirmed common good. It would also set a very dangerous precedent which I am sure some pretty important people realise may not necessarily be the best result for the country either. There have been PMs deposed by coups. There have been PMs told to step down because the CIA claimed they were drug dealers. There is not a precedent for this in Thailand.

If the top tells him to go, he can go with some kind of face. If the army come in he can have some kind of face.

He may find a way to survive if he can draw this out to the middle of next week and the general population get seriously pissed off with the unions for striking and there being no trains. It also gives time for PPP support to get organised also. It may happen, it may not. But his stated refusal to stand down is a bid to buy time, which from the situation he is right now is pretty much his only option.

But what about probable PPP disolution on Sept 2nd Tuesday.

Wednesday may be a LOONG way off this week.

Can they pass the law and let them off the hook sunday and monday...?

Amazing Thailand.

Edited August 30, 2008 by animatic

[Thai at Heart]

Samak seems intent on dragging this out huh?

Even if he wanted to quit, he has a duty to his supporters not to. I doubt he would quit. He is not allowed to use force so the demonstrations will go on until they get tired and go home. I think that may be why the PPP supporters will try to incite violence to force the police to act on the current situation. No one should ever label a coup as bloodless for a least 5 years.

This is Thailand. He will find it very difficult to fall on sword for some unconfirmed common good. It would also set a very dangerous precedent which I am sure some pretty important people realise may not necessarily be the best result for the country either. There have been PMs deposed by coups. There have been PMs told to step down because the CIA claimed they were drug dealers. There is not a precedent for this in Thailand.

If the top tells him to go, he can go with some kind of face. If the army come in he can have some kind of face.

He may find a way to survive if he can draw this out to the middle of next week and the general population get seriously pissed off with the unions for striking and there being no trains. It also gives time for PPP support to get organised also. It may happen, it may not. But his stated refusal to stand down is a bid to buy time, which from the situation he is right now is pretty much his only option.

But what about probable PPP disolution on Sept 2nd Tuesday.

Wednessday may be a LOONG way off this week.

Can the pass the law and let them off the hook sunday and monday...?

Amazing Thailand.

Walking away from a legal decision on Tuesday, looks a hel_l of a lot better to everyone than giving up coz of the PAD.

[animatic]

Samak seems intent on dragging this out huh?

Even if he wanted to quit, he has a duty to his supporters not to. I doubt he would quit. He is not allowed to use force so the demonstrations will go on until they get tired and go home. I think that may be why the PPP supporters will try to incite violence to force the police to act on the current situation. No one should ever label a coup as bloodless for a least 5 years.

This is Thailand. He will find it very difficult to fall on sword for some unconfirmed common good. It would also set a very dangerous precedent which I am sure some pretty important people realise may not necessarily be the best result for the country either. There have been PMs deposed by coups. There have been PMs told to step down because the CIA claimed they were drug dealers. There is not a precedent for this in Thailand.

If the top tells him to go, he can go with some kind of face. If the army come in he can have some kind of face.

He may find a way to survive if he can draw this out to the middle of next week and the general population get seriously pissed off with the unions for striking and there being no trains. It also gives time for PPP support to get organised also. It may happen, it may not. But his stated refusal to stand down is a bid to buy time, which from the situation he is right now is pretty much his only option.

But what about probable PPP disolution on Sept 2nd Tuesday.

Wednessday may be a LOONG way off this week.

Can the pass the law and let them off the hook sunday and monday...?

Amazing Thailand.

Walking away from a legal decision on Tuesday, looks a hel_l of a lot better to everyone than giving up coz of the PAD.

tis true, face before logic, and the good of the country.

I will watch his cooking show.

I like to cook, I've heard he IS good at that.

Edited August 30, 2008 by animatic

[Thai at Heart]

Samak seems intent on dragging this out huh?

Even if he wanted to quit, he has a duty to his supporters not to. I doubt he would quit. He is not allowed to use force so the demonstrations will go on until they get tired and go home. I think that may be why the PPP supporters will try to incite violence to force the police to act on the current situation. No one should ever label a coup as bloodless for a least 5 years.

This is Thailand. He will find it very difficult to fall on sword for some unconfirmed common good. It would also set a very dangerous precedent which I am sure some pretty important people realise may not necessarily be the best result for the country either. There have been PMs deposed by coups. There have been PMs told to step down because the CIA claimed they were drug dealers. There is not a precedent for this in Thailand.

If the top tells him to go, he can go with some kind of face. If the army come in he can have some kind of face.

He may find a way to survive if he can draw this out to the middle of next week and the general population get seriously pissed off with the unions for striking and there being no trains. It also gives time for PPP support to get organised also. It may happen, it may not. But his stated refusal to stand down is a bid to buy time, which from the situation he is right now is pretty much his only option.

But what about probable PPP disolution on Sept 2nd Tuesday.

Wednessday may be a LOONG way off this week.

Can the pass the law and let them off the hook sunday and monday...?

Amazing Thailand.

Walking away from a legal decision on Tuesday, looks a hel_l of a lot better to everyone than giving up coz of the PAD.

tis true, face before logic, and the good of the country.

I will watch his cooking show.

I like to cook, I've heard he IS good at that.

These guys don't back down. It isn't in their character. This for any other reason is why Sondhi won't get what he wants. PPP/Govt have no way out without losing all of their face and there are some real heavyweights in there who have succeeded in being in and around the centres of power for 30 years.

I would be amazed if they backed down on the basis of appearing to the whole country that one guy with a microphone and 30,000 in the park made them do it. If they have no way to go honorably, they would rather there was a coup.

[ThaiPauly]

104 pages of bullshite...the only things worth reading are the factual things that are reported.

As "Farangs" you can have absolutely NO INFFLUENCE on what happens here...you are all guests of the Thai Authorities.

I have been on TV for years but don't comment on anything that I have no influence over,,,so you all flame each other, argue, and MISS THE POINT.

You are wasting your time and taking up valuable space on TV with your drivel...you can't control what's going down and you don't have a say in it.

If this was happening in your own country then your comments would be worthwhile...but this IS NOT your homeland, so why do you waste valuable space saying "Shoot them, <deleted> them...kick him out" ...you CANNOT do it, so just LEAVE IT ALONE..listen to the news and..

<deleted> ( I'm sure you know what that means)

I NEVER get involved in Political <deleted> as i know I cannot change things...maybe some of you think you are special...but I doubt it.

Listen to the Thai People like the good lady that owns City Life in Chiang Mai.....she is upset about what is happening in HER country, but it is HER COUNRTY, not yours..so BUT OUT...listen to the news and make your plans accordingly

Edited August 30, 2008 by ThaiPauly