PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[lifeisrandom]

Criminal Court issues arrest warrants for PAD's nine leaders

If this is the case why have the Police not arrested them yet. Maybe they are afraid of the immediate consequences if they do?

Cheers, Rick

arresting the leaders makes the PPP look weak.

here is the situation - these people are not leaving assuming they can continue getting food and water.

apparently, samak does not feel that he will remain PM if he uses violence against these people.

If Samak cannot get these people to leave, he will not be PM as government cannot function.

So with this logic, how does Samak remain PM?

here is a hint: he doesn't.

So why issue the arrest warrants in the first place if there is no intention to use them. Scare tactic maybe?

As i see it the only way to end the stand off is to remove the PAD leadership from the equation in a divide and conquer move. The crowd would disperse without leadership.

Samak can not afford to sit this out for much longer because as you say the Government house is from where the country is governed, so without it the Governement cannot function.

This appeared to be the intention of the PAD protests, so they have achieved their goal?

Cheers, Rick

I don't think the crowd is going to disperse if Sondhi and others are arrested, do you?

[Jingthing]

The thing is, this PAD mob does not represent the hearts and minds of the Thai masses. How can such people ever by martyrs if the people aren't behind them? And they aren't.

[Crushdepth]

Remember the flimsy excuse they used to justify the last coup? It wasn't Thaksin - it was the supposed threat of violence - that they used as an excuse to overthrow a Government with a landslide majority.

The army decided to stage a coup because they had been asked to use force against civilians. They thought it was a bad idea (the body count being rather high on the previous occasion they went down that road). And they did convene an election and hand back control to a civilian government as they promised. You might not agree with their actions but I think their intensions were quite honorable.

Don't get any romantic ideas about Samak's party being the bastion of democracy. Their last party was dissolved for electoral fraud and the current one looks like it will be dissolved for electoral fraud as well. I've no sympathy at all. Democratic my arse!

Edited August 27, 2008 by Crushdepth

[bangkokrick]

Criminal Court issues arrest warrants for PAD's nine leaders

If this is the case why have the Police not arrested them yet. Maybe they are afraid of the immediate consequences if they do?

Cheers, Rick

arresting the leaders makes the PPP look weak.

here is the situation - these people are not leaving assuming they can continue getting food and water.

apparently, samak does not feel that he will remain PM if he uses violence against these people.

If Samak cannot get these people to leave, he will not be PM as government cannot function.

So with this logic, how does Samak remain PM?

here is a hint: he doesn't.

So why issue the arrest warrants in the first place if there is no intention to use them. Scare tactic maybe?

As i see it the only way to end the stand off is to remove the PAD leadership from the equation in a divide and conquer move. The crowd would disperse without leadership.

Samak can not afford to sit this out for much longer because as you say the Government house is from where the country is governed, so without it the Governement cannot function.

This appeared to be the intention of the PAD protests, so they have achieved their goal?

Cheers, Rick

I don't think the crowd is going to disperse if Sondhi and others are arrested, do you?

Yes i do, but i dont think that the country can be governed without the Government house do you?

Cheers, Rick

[lifeisrandom]

The thing is, this PAD mob does not represent the hearts and minds of the Thai masses. How can such people ever by martyrs if the people aren't behind them? And they aren't.

It does not matter. It is means for the military to justify a coup. That is why Samak (who has had no problems dispersing non violent student protests in the past (through means of automatic gun fire)) is playing it cool. He does not want to give the military a reason to step in.

If "hearts and minds" mattered, than we could simply have elections. LOL.

[ando]

Whats the next step?

They sit in the garden of the government house. Samak just sits somewhere else, now at the army I think.

He can do that for years, I guess.

so whats the next step to get rid of him?

um, the country cannot function if Samak cannot take back the government house.

you do realize the government house is where the country is run, correct?

so if samak cannot disperse the PAD - there will be a coup or he will be forced to resign.

With public opinion so much against what PAD has done recently, this final rally is doomed to decay into a cluster of just a few hundred hard core supporters over time rather than the jubilant triumph many had expected. Samaks strategy (or most likely that of his advisers) of playing it low key and waiting them out and allowing them to do their worst in disrupting the community and government is very likely to succeed in destroying PADs popular support base and turn PAD from being a saviour to a pariah in a lot of peoples minds.

[bangkokrick]

The thing is, this PAD mob does not represent the hearts and minds of the Thai masses. How can such people ever by martyrs if the people aren't behind them? And they aren't.

I agree Jingthing. There was an estimated 30K protesters from a population of 53 Million (as quoted in samak's speech). This is a very small representation of the total Thai population.

Cheers, Rick

[stumonster]

no need for water cannons - I am sure this downpour we just had would disperse all but the fanatical

[coconutmonkey]

Pumpuiman, I'd say you've been duped with 2nd hand information. You clearly haven't been to BKK lately, like your sister in law.... why don't you take a ride on your buffalo and go check it out before relaying 2nd hand information, miles away from the source.

If anyone has a photo of a collection box, feel free to upload it, eh!

cmsally says very well:

"Take a moment to demand more and maybe push the intellectual level up a notch or two and then maybe the country can make some progress."

That would include information sources for this forum too.

I would be very dubious of pro-PAD newbie posters who've suddenly come out of the woodwork to put most of their posts on this particular thread.

Toptuan, counting is a feat you haven't quite mastered. You prove the point exactly; terrible information.

Being a newbie to post isn't all that bad either; you learn alot more from listening than speaking. You may learn to count, too.

I'm not pro-PAD, I'm pro-democratic; whoever may pave the way to acheive that!

[Thai at Heart]

Criminal Court issues arrest warrants for PAD's nine leaders

If this is the case why have the Police not arrested them yet. Maybe they are afraid of the immediate consequences if they do?

Cheers, Rick

arresting the leaders makes the PPP look weak.

here is the situation - these people are not leaving assuming they can continue getting food and water.

apparently, samak does not feel that he will remain PM if he uses violence against these people.

If Samak cannot get these people to leave, he will not be PM as government cannot function.

So with this logic, how does Samak remain PM?

here is a hint: he doesn't.

It doesn't make them look weak. It ironically makes them look like they are upholding the law. This is being pushed bit by bit to an end game.

If I was Samak, I would cordon off the protest areas and let them all rot in the sun. No one in, no one out for two weeks. If they want to protest and deprive the country of it's elected govt, I would choose to let them protest as much as they want but deprive them of the media to broadcast their idiotic message. No cameras in, no radio in, cut the internet feed to ASTV, hel_l cut the TV and radio altogether for a month, cut the electricity, and lets see how dedicated these supporters really are. If they want to wreck govt house, feel free, if they want to burn down the ministries, feel free.

30,000 are using their "right" to "free speech and freedom of movement" to remove the rights of approximately 24 million voters to their elected government and incite the overthrow of government.

They can convene a Parliament anywhere they like, it isn't as though it is bound to a building. That is the wonder of democracy.

[LaoPo]

Yes absolutely Ando - it's a charade. But Samak can't declare a state of emergency and/or turn this over to the Army because the Army and the chief of the privy council would use that as an excuse for the executive to ask the Army to take charge again beacuse the Government 'can't handle the situation.'

It's exactly what they are all waiting for - and is the objective of PAD's rallies. Sondhi is now finally on record saying what many of us suspected and wrote about long ago: he wants an end to democracy and an appointed Government with the Army given an official role as chief arbiter. So much for one-person-one-vote!

It's also the reason that Samak hasn't gone in there and clobbered those guys. He has to back down to prevent the Army using bloodshed as an excuse. Remember the flimsy excuse they used to justify the last coup? It wasn't Thaksin - it was the supposed threat of violence - that they used as an excuse to overthrow a Government with a landslide majority. So at present Samak's playing it about the only way he can I reckon. He has democracy and the will of msot voters on his side. But he doesn't have the real power in Thailand behind him (the military and the rich-old-patronage-families). This is why he's faxing Western embassies and holding news conferences in English - to make the point he's doing everything by the book - going out of his way to avoid hurting those who would destroy democracy in favour of some elitist-old-family-crony-thing to run the country.

Think what you like about PPP and TRT (I think they're a rogue's gallery) but it's now gone far past Thaksin or Samak or Consitutional changes to help Thaksin hang on to money -- it's down to democracy versus elitism. I know where I stand on that one - and the latest poll shows 3/4 of Thailand also want these guys to pack up and go home.

Samak is painting the Army into a corner...and I hope he's successful.

A quick edit to add my new definition of "The PAD" - ... The Priviledged Against Democracy"

Well written Thaigene2 and a good view behind the velvet curtains of Thai politics, military, Elite and the Highest Authority !

For what it's worth: I think that Samak, after his meeting with HM, has a trump card just because of that meeting and the military AND Elite cannot step in (yet...)

The 9 PAD big shots played their cards and lost and are hiding now amongst their supporters but can't do so forever....

Someone suggested that the PPP looked weak after the arrest warrants were submitted but that would mean that the PPP (read: Samak, supported by HM) has full control over the Criminal Court...

Do they ?

I hope not.

For democracy's sake I hope that the 9 PAD leaders will surrender, disappear for a few days until things calm down. Nobody is waiting for an escalation.

I think time is on Samak's hand now.

If my view is wrong I'm convinced others will tell me so

LaoPo

[ando]

Yes absolutely Ando - it's a charade. But Samak can't declare a state of emergency and/or turn this over to the Army because the Army and the chief of the privy council would use that as an excuse for the executive to ask the Army to take charge again beacuse the Government 'can't handle the situation.'

It's exactly what they are all waiting for - and is the objective of PAD's rallies. Sondhi is now finally on record saying what many of us suspected and wrote about long ago: he wants an end to democracy and an appointed Government with the Army given an official role as chief arbiter. So much for one-person-one-vote!

It's also the reason that Samak hasn't gone in there and clobbered those guys. He has to back down to prevent the Army using bloodshed as an excuse. Remember the flimsy excuse they used to justify the last coup? It wasn't Thaksin - it was the supposed threat of violence - that they used as an excuse to overthrow a Government with a landslide majority. So at present Samak's playing it about the only way he can I reckon. He has democracy and the will of msot voters on his side. But he doesn't have the real power in Thailand behind him (the military and the rich-old-patronage-families). This is why he's faxing Western embassies and holding news conferences in English - to make the point he's doing everything by the book - going out of his way to avoid hurting those who would destroy democracy in favour of some elitist-old-family-crony-thing to run the country.

Think what you like about PPP and TRT (I think they're a rogue's gallery) but it's now gone far past Thaksin or Samak or Consitutional changes to help Thaksin hang on to money -- it's down to democracy versus elitism. I know where I stand on that one - and the latest poll shows 3/4 of Thailand also want these guys to pack up and go home.

Samak is painting the Army into a corner...and I hope he's successful.

A quick edit to add my new definition of "The PAD" - ... The Priviledged Against Democracy"

Exactly right, it's about Democracy and the PAD are a clear threat to it. I sincerly hope Samak can pull it off without any bloodshed or the army interfering. He doesn't have time on his side though, the longer this drags out, the more impatience the boys in the army might get.

I guess they need to quickly arrest the main PAD leadership, this might break the current protests.

I disagree.

I think Samak is handling two potential threats here. One is the threat of another coup of course. But really the generals don't want to be handed political control of the country while the economy is in such a mess. And "two" is the threat of an escalating anti-government movement under the leadership of PAD.

Right now, PAD is loosing public credibility and public support by the hour. And I am sure the Army generals are breathing a sigh of relief that they wont be expected to step in and take responsibility for a government in such difficult economic times; (particularly since they have shown themselves to be totally incompetent at the job in the recent past). PAD is self destructing in everyones eyes except their most ardent supporters. And thats a good thing for both the Army and the Government. So long as this PAD final surge is allowed to fizzle out and the supporters are allowed to go home disappointed and disillusioned, everyone will be happy in the end. The coup that nobody except PAD wanted would be averted.

[bangkokrick]

(BangkokPost.com) - Metropolitan Police Bureau asked eight key members of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to surrender after the Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for them.

Arrest warrants were out for nine PAD members, but police can only take legal action against eight of them.

Spokesman for the Metropolitan Police Bureau Suporn Phansua said Somkiat Pongpaiboon currently serves as a member of parliament thus he is granted privileges according to law.

Pol Maj Gen Suporn vowed that police would try to negotiate with the anti-government protesters.

After the demonstrators learned that the court issued the warrants for the group leaders, they formed human wall to protect them in case police break into the Government House compound to arrest them.

Looks like they have tried to arrest them.

Cheers, Rick

[Crushdepth]

Right now, PAD is loosing public credibility and public support by the hour.

So is Samak. Impotent, incompetent and divisive...and about to lose his job. Good leaders bring people together not drive them apart.

[LaoPo]

One is the threat of another coup of course. But really the generals don't want to be handed political control of the country while the economy is in such a mess.

right...but it's not the major reason I think (economy mess).

We don't know what kind of sign has been delivered from a palace to the generals and secondly I think the army is not really keen in another coup, meaning: removing ANOTHER democratically elected government, whether that government/Samak is liked or not.

A(nother) coup would be a disaster for the credibility of Thailand.

If the people want to remove the present government/Samak they have to do so through -again- elections and not the way PAD forced...and failed.

LaoPo

[h90]

One is the threat of another coup of course. But really the generals don't want to be handed political control of the country while the economy is in such a mess.

right...but it's not the major reason I think (economy mess).

We don't know what kind of sign has been delivered from a palace to the generals and secondly I think the army is not really keen in another coup, meaning: removing ANOTHER democratically elected government, whether that government/Samak is liked or not.

A(nother) coup would be a disaster for the credibility of Thailand.

If the people want to remove the present government/Samak they have to do so through -again- elections and not the way PAD forced...and failed.

LaoPo

And again Thailand has no democratic elected government....vote buying....most of the parties are on the way to be dissolved for their vote buying.

But you are right a coup wouldn't be good for Thailand! While international if the Generals are business friendly it does not damage economy (just Bush and Merkel are barking), but a country which has every year a coup is a joke.....

[h90]

Copy/past from TOC

Govt Spokesperson Says the Rally Ends Today

UPDATE : 27 August 2008

PM Office's Spokesperson Wichienchote Sukchoterat says PM Samak Sundaravej has given the order for agencies in charge to vacate PAD protesters from Government House tonight.

Wichienchote earlier said the protesters will be ordered to leave Government House by sunset today. He also cited the PM's statement saying "It has to end today, the rally can't continue".

There's been reports that the police may try to disperse the PAD rally tonight at 9 p.m.

Since sundown many more PAD protesters from provinces outside Bangkok have joined their fellow PAD supporters at Government House.

end from quote.

[Samuian]

Well it's show time as the CC as issued arrest warrants for the 9 "Leaders of the Troublemakers"... how about the Government handling the arrest warrants and connected legal issues with another rather "famous" couple on the "run"?

See a faux pas comin'...if it hasn't been made already in it's worst scenario!

Not to forget, who will try to hold on to his puppet cabinet... longing for "his" money!

I see difficult times ahead for Mr.PM and his fellow cabinet men.

[vahack]

i'm kinda hoping this goes on

at least a couple more days.

the baht dove against the dollar today (1/34.25).

another couple days and we might have

great conditions to import some cash

yes, its a selfish cause.

but why should a farang give a crap about Thai politics?

its not farang business.

Americans & Brits have their own

problems at home to focus on.

as long as there's fried rice

it doesnt matter to me who's

"running" this country..

[Old Man River]

One is the threat of another coup of course. But really the generals don't want to be handed political control of the country while the economy is in such a mess.

right...but it's not the major reason I think (economy mess).

We don't know what kind of sign has been delivered from a palace to the generals and secondly I think the army is not really keen in another coup, meaning: removing ANOTHER democratically elected government, whether that government/Samak is liked or not.

A(nother) coup would be a disaster for the credibility of Thailand.

If the people want to remove the present government/Samak they have to do so through -again- elections and not the way PAD forced...and failed.

LaoPo

That is how I view it as well. The economy's condition is not an issue for the military. Their main concern is making sure that Thaksin doesn't make a come back and in this, they have had a shared interest with the PAD. Their preference, certainly shown by recent events, is to find ways to do this without staging another coup.

Samak remains the man in the middle.

[scyriacus]

.... I would cordon off the protest areas and let them all rot in the sun. No one in, no one out for two weeks. ...I would ... deprive them of the media .... No cameras in, no radio in, cut the internet feed to ASTV, hel_l cut the TV and radio altogether for a month, cut the electricity.....

hallo you 'dictator at heart'. you pretend to defend democracy in thailand? and you are the defender of a free press?? the methods you describe would draw applause from hitler, stalin und dschingis khan. you are a true and faithful defender of tax-sin and his puppet samak. and another one who totally lost his selfcontrol. go and get help!

[Old Man River]

why should a farang give a crap about Thai politics?

its not farang business.

We care because a lot of us live here and/or do business here.

[ando]

Right now, PAD is loosing public credibility and public support by the hour.

So is Samak. Impotent, incompetent and divisive...and about to lose his job. Good leaders bring people together not drive them apart.

Good leaders are elected in a democratic society rather than leading riotous mobs on the street.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Thailand has something like 35 Million voters and here we have a mob of 30 thousand trying to force their political will on the rest of the country through street protests and general disruption of the community in Bangkok and the government.

Contrary to your point of view, I think the peaceful resolution of this crisis and debunking of PADs motives will defuse some of the divisions in the country.

[Journalist]

The opposition should start a 'Monarchist Party'. Run against PPP making it clear that they won't pay for votes and have clean government as the promise. I daresay they might win.

All this running around trashing lounges and having disputes about toilets is just daft. They need to stop tiptoeing around with cryptic motives and making threats, and bring all these issues into the public domain for proper political debate. Its the grown up way and unbananalike.

But it won't happen.

Because there are too many private agendas and unspeakable things that must remain unspoken

So thats that.

Anarchy ! Kidz Rool!

Edited August 27, 2008 by Journalist

[Thai at Heart]

.... I would cordon off the protest areas and let them all rot in the sun. No one in, no one out for two weeks. ...I would ... deprive them of the media .... No cameras in, no radio in, cut the internet feed to ASTV, hel_l cut the TV and radio altogether for a month, cut the electricity.....

hallo you 'dictator at heart'. you pretend to defend democracy in thailand? and you are the defender of a free press?? the methods you describe would draw applause from hitler, stalin und dschingis khan. you are a true and faithful defender of tax-sin and his puppet samak. and another one who totally lost his selfcontrol. go and get help!

not defending anyone, just giving a possible way for samak to handle the situation without resorting to sending in the police.

[bulmercke]

.... I would cordon off the protest areas and let them all rot in the sun. No one in, no one out for two weeks. ...I would ... deprive them of the media .... No cameras in, no radio in, cut the internet feed to ASTV, hel_l cut the TV and radio altogether for a month, cut the electricity.....

hallo you 'dictator at heart'. you pretend to defend democracy in thailand? and you are the defender of a free press?? the methods you describe would draw applause from hitler, stalin und dschingis khan. you are a true and faithful defender of tax-sin and his puppet samak. and another one who totally lost his selfcontrol. go and get help!

scyriacus - seconded -

And also - whatever you may think of the PAD - they seem to have Samak on the hook.

If they stay where they are then they're just going to increase the embarrassment and humiliation for the government.

If the government decides to forcibly remove the protesters then it's goin' to have a major PR disaster on it's hands.

Checkmate for the PAD.

[Samuian]

Maybe the accused PAD Leaders should ALL fly to GB-London and ask for political asylum - now where they are on a arrest warrant.. as their former PM!

Think this could turn things t least a bit funny...for the powers in charge or not n charge..

[h90]

Right now, PAD is loosing public credibility and public support by the hour.

So is Samak. Impotent, incompetent and divisive...and about to lose his job. Good leaders bring people together not drive them apart.

Good leaders are elected in a democratic society rather than leading riotous mobs on the street.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Thailand has something like 35 Million voters and here we have a mob of 30 thousand trying to force their political will on the rest of the country through street protests and general disruption of the community in Bangkok and the government.

Contrary to your point of view, I think the peaceful resolution of this crisis and debunking of PADs motives will defuse some of the divisions in the country.

exactly! and not due to vote buying.

[animatic]

Whats the next step?

They sit in the garden of the government house. Samak just sits somewhere else, now at the army I think.

He can do that for years, I guess.

so whats the next step to get rid of him?

um, the country cannot function if Samak cannot take back the government house.

you do realize the government house is where the country is run, correct?

so if samak cannot disperse the PAD - there will be a coup or he will be forced to resign.

With public opinion so much against what PAD has done recently, this final rally is doomed to decay into a cluster of just a few hundred hard core supporters over time rather than the jubilant triumph many had expected. Samaks strategy (or most likely that of his advisers) of playing it low key and waiting them out and allowing them to do their worst in disrupting the community and government is very likely to succeed in destroying PADs popular support base and turn PAD from being a saviour to a pariah in a lot of peoples minds.

I saw on channel 3 the weapons perp walk.

It stinks to high heaven.

Yeah I am sure PAD sent some people there.

But I think an earlier bunch went in while PAD were having their

talk about it at the bridge. Maybe some of those were hardercore PAD types,

the lunatic fringe wanting stronger action and egged on by several plants.

But I seriously doubt all those beat up old weapons showed up preplanned

to attack a TV STATION. Not like storming an armory or police station,

it's a just a media outlet...

A rusted 8" sawed off shot gun. A few beat up pistols yeah,

sling shots looking so new they came of the shelf last week...

Right and katoeys can fly!.

This was a lunatic fringe and some ringers egging them on.

And then a nice peacful round up; cause there were almost no weapons

nor laokaw flowing, and then a prepwalk to show how dastardly the seem,

just to start the day off with PAD on the back foot wondering <deleted> happened.

All those weapons.. and no fight when the police come,

just quietly go away, heads bowed, like sheep caught out of the pen.

LATER the 2,000 PAD protesters show up on schedual.

Why bring that much firepower if you're not going to use it.

UNLESS IT'S PLANTED for propaganda purposes at the start of the day.

Who stocks tons of old nasty weapons available at 10 minutes notice...

Only needing an order from one of Thaksin's old police academy mates to bring out.

And that fact they make the pointed effort to say this is not staged...

If it wasn't they wouldn't bother to make that point.

It all stinks to high heaven.

Somebody is getting rid of Samak and PAD at one stroke.

Edited August 27, 2008 by animatic

[TAWP]

I'm evacuating my family out of Thailand next week to join me overseas.

This anarchy is all going to end in tears - its becoming a runaway train.

Bwahahaha...journalist for the Donald Duck & co magazine? =D