PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[animatic]

Yep several posters could benefit from some Nam jai for sure.

I note no one has suggested Abhist for the coalition.

Curious.

I think he wouldn't want it right now though.

I think getting any kind of a deal for a new PM to pick a new cabinet

in place by morning is a good thing. Especially with the

puppet masters on the move and the army open door.

The education requierment is similar to Jim Crow post USA civil war

reconstructionist rules to prevent poor, but free, under-educated blacks

from voting out the white masters. I doubt it will fly for th same reasons.

Education itself is a great tool for helping the electorate make good choices.

And taking back control of the up-country media from the Thaksin machine

will be a MAJOR step in the right direction.

Stop the gangs from breaking up opposition ralleys etc.

Much of the northern populace was actively prevented from hearing alternate views.

And an earlier suggestion of hundreds of undercover vote buying teams

to trap vote buyers early and often to clean up the vote.

Edited August 29, 2008 by animatic

[Thai at Heart]

If Samak resigns but the coalition stays intact, will that be sufficient for the PAD to go home?

That's naive thinking.....PAD, going home ?

Sondhi wants it all the way....

The steering wheel of Thailand

So he's able to -FINALLY- enjoy REAL POWER

And, the Thai people will follow their new leader to a bright new future:

LaoPo

I agree. It will be interesting if they take the step of Samak resigning and appointing a left field leader. A change of target may simply be enough to confuse the loyal supporters in the park as to his true intentions. I can't see him saying, yippee, we got rid of Samak, and here we have found this paragon of clean govt, (drumroll please) Mr. ???????. He won't be able to get the people to sit to fight a left field PM.

The statement that the army will step in if any more attacks on govt property occur and that the army will take down PAD with PPP is also a very shrewd warning to PAD to be very careful about their next step. It is possible those words may have been given to the army to convey into the public domain.

Sondhi doesn't want to find himself on the badside of the army along with Samak.

[Old Man River]

SAMAK ON THE ROPES

Allies' and Army's support for PM wavers

Leaders of the People Power Party's key coalition partners held an urgent meeting Friday night, while Army chief Anupong Paojinda rejected Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej's call for a state of emergency.

There were reports that Anupong, at a private meeting with Samak, also suggested that the latter either resign or dissolve the House of Representatives, a source said.

The Anupong-Samak meeting took place after Samak, who was also defence minister, met armed forces' top brass at a Defence Council at the Thai Armed Forces headquarters.

Anupong on Friday also ruled out a coup, saying it was not a way to solve the current crisis.

There was strong speculation Friday evening that a similar advice could soon be extended to Samak by his allies. They had an emergency meeting at Chart Thai leader Banharn Silapa-archa's residence late Friday evening.

The allies discussed a proposal for Samak to resign, instead of dissolving the House of Representatives, according to the sources. However, a TV report said that after the heated debate, the coalition partners agreed to continue backing Samak.

As the People Alliance for Democracy increased nationwide pressure on the government, political attention turned to the allies, whose pressure would be needed if Samak was to be forced to step down.

Deputy Prime Minsiter and senior Chart Thai member Sanan Kachornprasart was said to be the one who "coordinated" the meeting.

Earlier, it had been reported that Banharn was planning a press conference at 9 pm. Then it was reported that he decided to cancel the meeting.

Allies' withdrawal of support would mean the government would virtually collapse. Samak would either have to resign or dissolve Parliament.

Samak's resignation would mean Parliament would have to elect another MP as prime minister.

The present Constitution stipulates that the prime minister must be an elected MP. However, "suspension" of certain constitutional clauses, it is believed, will be enough to pave the way for appointment of a non-MP prime minister if necessary.

The Nation

If Samak resigns but the coalition stays intact, will that be sufficient for the PAD to go home?

Non MP PM, not Pallop surely?

Never Panlop. If a non elected MP, it could be someone like Chavalit with the caveat that it is only until the next election.

Agree. Panlop has destroyed Samak in 24 hours. That was his job. Not taking over PMship. Chavalit or Anand (better) or anyone who is better then Samak

I can't say whether Anand would do this again or not, but I do know in 06 he said continuously that those days are over for him. I suspect he hasn't changed his mind.

Well there has to be someone this time around. 2006 is different from now

Given Anand was sued for his valiant efforts last time, I really doubt he will do it. It doesn't have to be a non elected MP. It could easily be Abhisit.

[onethailand]

I've got a few students down at the demonstrations. Some of them have been going with their families. They have not been paid to go down there. They're nice kids, a bit naive certainly, not a clue about some of the more dubious ideas and characters around the PAD, but genuinely enthusiastic about it all. And not a violent thought between them.

They are not scum.

They don't need their heads cracked.

I think the experience will do them some good. It'll give them something to think about and it's just good to see these kids actually becoming engaged in something outside MSN and the television.

I agree with your post.

I've just been speaking with my husband who's been at the site since Tuesday. Even he, as a Buddhist, was moved by the 'nam jai' of his fellow Thais. He told me everyone was helping each other with food and water. Thousands of them.

There were some five to six hundred police up in Government House awaiting orders, but soon saw they would have been overwhelmed by the sheer numbers who turned up for the rally and daren't leave. They hadn't had anything to eat for three days, and the only water was from a tap for washing. The people at the rally gave them food and water.

He also told me that when the police attempted to remove some people by force, they simply sat and looked at them and asked, 'you going to hit me? I won't stop you' in true Buddhist form. But he told me that for the majority of rally attendees, it wasn't at all dangerous, and what is shown on the tv are just a very small percentage of any trouble or violence there.

I think it would do some of the posters on this forum a world of good to be able to share this kind of experience.

Glad to see you posting in a much more informative manner than your opening posts - thanks. I hope your husband is okay.

I don't think the protesters want to cause trouble (except for a few rowdy ones like the security detail) and I really don't think the police want to intervene - but both sides understand that the police still have to do their job. I would not be surprised if a significant number of the police had members of their family supporting the PAD either.

I still take issue with some of the media reporting "brutality" - your post, and what I've seen all day, demonstrates otherwise, with some possible exceptions which ASTV is claiming they have on video and will release - and has yet to do so. Obviously there will be confrontations - but brutality would be obvious to the point where the police were literally beating up on protesters everywhere instead of using their riot shields as barriers, not unlike any other police force in the world.

Brutality is the crap you see from some notorious incidents in the US which inevitably involve police (both black and white) and a black man.

[Thai at Heart]

For the record, I believe that the voting requirements will be changed for the next election. I don't see this Wiki thing being discussed this morning, but rather an educational requirement to qualify to vote which would be enforced. It would lead to local village heads pushing education which would be an upside, but for the time being would remove the threat of Thaksin incarnates continually being elected.

That is just my view and I expect a lot will disagree.

Well it might set up a business much like English teachers and the Kao San degrees. hel_l they can't even check if current MP's have real degrees let alone the entire population. It still doesn't guarantee that the PAD will get the party they want anyway and who says educated people can't be bought?

I sincerely hope this doesn't happen.

There are a lot of holes in it, I know, but there are upsides when you think about it. It may create an incentive for people to get an education and it would satisfy certain power groups for the time being.

Not even the hard and fast PAD supporters would go for it, (I hope). If they are such average Joe's half of them may not have high school diplomas. Ironically people drive cars and have guns which can kill people without having a valid license, but voting would require proof of education.

How about preventing gays, moslems or katoeys from voting. Anyone agree now?

[hammered]

SAMAK ON THE ROPES

Allies' and Army's support for PM wavers

Leaders of the People Power Party's key coalition partners held an urgent meeting Friday night, while Army chief Anupong Paojinda rejected Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej's call for a state of emergency.

There were reports that Anupong, at a private meeting with Samak, also suggested that the latter either resign or dissolve the House of Representatives, a source said.

The Anupong-Samak meeting took place after Samak, who was also defence minister, met armed forces' top brass at a Defence Council at the Thai Armed Forces headquarters.

Anupong on Friday also ruled out a coup, saying it was not a way to solve the current crisis.

There was strong speculation Friday evening that a similar advice could soon be extended to Samak by his allies. They had an emergency meeting at Chart Thai leader Banharn Silapa-archa's residence late Friday evening.

The allies discussed a proposal for Samak to resign, instead of dissolving the House of Representatives, according to the sources. However, a TV report said that after the heated debate, the coalition partners agreed to continue backing Samak.

As the People Alliance for Democracy increased nationwide pressure on the government, political attention turned to the allies, whose pressure would be needed if Samak was to be forced to step down.

Deputy Prime Minsiter and senior Chart Thai member Sanan Kachornprasart was said to be the one who "coordinated" the meeting.

Earlier, it had been reported that Banharn was planning a press conference at 9 pm. Then it was reported that he decided to cancel the meeting.

Allies' withdrawal of support would mean the government would virtually collapse. Samak would either have to resign or dissolve Parliament.

Samak's resignation would mean Parliament would have to elect another MP as prime minister.

The present Constitution stipulates that the prime minister must be an elected MP. However, "suspension" of certain constitutional clauses, it is believed, will be enough to pave the way for appointment of a non-MP prime minister if necessary.

The Nation

If Samak resigns but the coalition stays intact, will that be sufficient for the PAD to go home?

Non MP PM, not Pallop surely?

Never Panlop. If a non elected MP, it could be someone like Chavalit with the caveat that it is only until the next election.

Agree. Panlop has destroyed Samak in 24 hours. That was his job. Not taking over PMship. Chavalit or Anand (better) or anyone who is better then Samak

I can't say whether Anand would do this again or not, but I do know in 06 he said continuously that those days are over for him. I suspect he hasn't changed his mind.

Well there has to be someone this time around. 2006 is different from now

Given Anand was sued for his valiant efforts last time, I really doubt he will do it. It doesn't have to be a non elected MP. It could easily be Abhisit.

Abhisit would be interesting but he would want a democratic screen

[Inthai]

I've got a few students down at the demonstrations. Some of them have been going with their families. They have not been paid to go down there. They're nice kids, a bit naive certainly, not a clue about some of the more dubious ideas and characters around the PAD, but genuinely enthusiastic about it all. And not a violent thought between them.

They are not scum.

They don't need their heads cracked.

I think the experience will do them some good. It'll give them something to think about and it's just good to see these kids actually becoming engaged in something outside MSN and the television.

I agree with your post.

I've just been speaking with my husband who's been at the site since Tuesday. Even he, as a Buddhist, was moved by the 'nam jai' of his fellow Thais. He told me everyone was helping each other with food and water. Thousands of them.

There were some five to six hundred police up in Government House awaiting orders, but soon saw they would have been overwhelmed by the sheer numbers who turned up for the rally and daren't leave. They hadn't had anything to eat for three days, and the only water was from a tap for washing. The people at the rally gave them food and water.

He also told me that when the police attempted to remove some people by force, they simply sat and looked at them and asked, 'you going to hit me? I won't stop you' in true Buddhist form. But he told me that for the majority of rally attendees, it wasn't at all dangerous, and what is shown on the tv are just a very small percentage of any trouble or violence there.

I think it would do some of the posters on this forum a world of good to be able to share this kind of experience.

more and more touching stories are being reported also by media. Thai PBS for example interviewed an elderly woman in her seventies, which mentioned that she came to protests because she was alone and found many new friends, all in similar situation as she is, which were helping each other and sharing their stories.

Protests have given hundreds of people hope and friendship like they could have not expierienced before......., just an interesting fact and another side of story...

[sriracha john]

Thailand's ruling coalition plans urgent debate on protest crisis

BANGKOK - Thailand's ruling six-party coalition agreed Friday to hold an urgent weekend debate to discuss the ongoing crisis caused by thousands of anti-government protesters.

Prime Minister's Samak Sundaravej's People Power Party met with its partners Friday evening after demonstrators spent a fourth day demanding the premier's resignation and broadened protests beyond a camp outside Government House.

The leader of the PPP's largest coalition partner, Chart Thai Party, said he hoped the debate, to be held on Sunday, would resolve the tension on the streets.

"Both the prime minister and the House speaker have agreed that this is the best solution to solve the current situation," Banharn Silpa-Archa told reporters after the meeting.

"Opening a general debate will enable everybody to express their opinion."

But asked if he believed the debate would put an end to protests by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), Banharn said: "I don't know, it's up to PAD."

Banharn insisted however that the coalition's meeting was not meant to question Samak's authority.

"This evening's meeting did not aim to put pressure on the prime minister," he said.

Demonstrations have been held at the Government House compound since Tuesday after PAD members stormed a state-run television station and marched on various government buildings.

The situation escalated on Friday, with protests spreading to the police headquarters in Bangkok and across the country, forcing three regional airports to close.

- AFP

[h90]

For the record, I believe that the voting requirements will be changed for the next election. I don't see this Wiki thing being discussed this morning, but rather an educational requirement to qualify to vote which would be enforced. It would lead to local village heads pushing education which would be an upside, but for the time being would remove the threat of Thaksin incarnates continually being elected.

That is just my view and I expect a lot will disagree.

Well it might set up a business much like English teachers and the Kao San degrees. hel_l they can't even check if current MP's have real degrees let alone the entire population. It still doesn't guarantee that the PAD will get the party they want anyway and who says educated people can't be bought?

I sincerely hope this doesn't happen.

There are companies which offer such services, also for elections to spread "informations" on the internet.

[Moonrakers]

For the record, I believe that the voting requirements will be changed for the next election. I don't see this Wiki thing being discussed this morning, but rather an educational requirement to qualify to vote which would be enforced. It would lead to local village heads pushing education which would be an upside, but for the time being would remove the threat of Thaksin incarnates continually being elected.

That is just my view and I expect a lot will disagree.

I am sure that many would disagree OMR, including myself because it denies the common man/women the right to vote.

BUT... After THINKING about it, does Thailand have any hope for Democracy without idea's such as this? It clearly is not working as it is now.

But what a paradoxy! How can a democracy be a democracy whilst actively denying certain people the right to vote? Well i S'pose that that is an impossibilty.

So what happens in the meantime? Should Thailand be allowed to carry on as it is, democratic for the sake of democracy and being raped for all it has by the selfish C**T's at the top. Or should a "Mediator" be appointed whilst this fledgling democracy to mature?

Is it possible to not have a democracy without communism or a dictatorship? Is there a "middle way"?

The mind boggles.

[sriracha john]

I've got a few students down at the demonstrations. Some of them have been going with their families. They have not been paid to go down there. They're nice kids, a bit naive certainly, not a clue about some of the more dubious ideas and characters around the PAD, but genuinely enthusiastic about it all. And not a violent thought between them.

They are not scum.

They don't need their heads cracked.

I think the experience will do them some good. It'll give them something to think about and it's just good to see these kids actually becoming engaged in something outside MSN and the television.

I agree with your post.

I've just been speaking with my husband who's been at the site since Tuesday. Even he, as a Buddhist, was moved by the 'nam jai' of his fellow Thais. He told me everyone was helping each other with food and water. Thousands of them.

There were some five to six hundred police up in Government House awaiting orders, but soon saw they would have been overwhelmed by the sheer numbers who turned up for the rally and daren't leave. They hadn't had anything to eat for three days, and the only water was from a tap for washing. The people at the rally gave them food and water.

He also told me that when the police attempted to remove some people by force, they simply sat and looked at them and asked, 'you going to hit me? I won't stop you' in true Buddhist form. But he told me that for the majority of rally attendees, it wasn't at all dangerous, and what is shown on the tv are just a very small percentage of any trouble or violence there.

I think it would do some of the posters on this forum a world of good to be able to share this kind of experience.

Glad to see you posting in a much more informative manner than your opening posts - thanks. I hope your husband is okay.

I don't think the protesters want to cause trouble (except for a few rowdy ones like the security detail) and I really don't think the police want to intervene - but both sides understand that the police still have to do their job. I would not be surprised if a significant number of the police had members of their family supporting the PAD either.

I still take issue with some of the media reporting "brutality" - your post, and what I've seen all day, demonstrates otherwise, with some possible exceptions which ASTV is claiming they have on video and will release - and has yet to do so. Obviously there will be confrontations - but brutality would be obvious to the point where the police were literally beating up on protesters everywhere instead of using their riot shields as barriers, not unlike any other police force in the world.

Brutality is the crap you see from some notorious incidents in the US which inevitably involve police (both black and white) and a black man.

a lot closer example is Udon Thani

[onethailand]

a lot closer example is Udon Thani

LOL - I didn't see that.

Another good example would be the recent uprising in Burma.

NBT now reporting that they have received the CD from PAD which claims to show violence being used against protesters. The news anchors have said that they are currently converting it to tape so that they can show it, as apparently they cannot play the video direct from the CD.

To be honest - I don't think I can buy that excuse. But since I don't know what equipment NBT has at their disposal, or what equipment may have been damaged in the preceding days, I guess we'll just have to wait.

I would rather ASTV just show it, for crying out loud - if they claim they have it, why not show it? What's the point of withholding it?

[Thai at Heart]

For the record, I believe that the voting requirements will be changed for the next election. I don't see this Wiki thing being discussed this morning, but rather an educational requirement to qualify to vote which would be enforced. It would lead to local village heads pushing education which would be an upside, but for the time being would remove the threat of Thaksin incarnates continually being elected.

That is just my view and I expect a lot will disagree.

I am sure that many would disagree OMR, including myself because it denies the common man/women the right to vote.

BUT... After THINKING about it, does Thailand have any hope for Democracy without idea's such as this? It clearly is not working as it is now.

But what a paradoxy! How can a democracy be a democracy whilst actively denying certain people the right to vote? Well i S'pose that that is an impossibilty.

So what happens in the meantime? Should Thailand be allowed to carry on as it is, democratic for the sake of democracy and being raped for all it has by the selfish C**T's at the top. Or should a "Mediator" be appointed whilst this fledgling democracy to mature?

Is it possible to not have a democracy without communism or a dictatorship? Is there a "middle way"?

The mind boggles.

How about votes weighted on the amount of rice an individual produces. This would have the added benefits of:

a. Encouraging the sufficiency economy

b. Encouraging minimum wage labour to return to the fields thus developing the countryside

c. An increase in the sales of washing powder as middle class women learn to wash their own dishes

d. A reduction in the gross overcrowding of Bangkok's traffic as people returned home

e. A massive increase in Thailand's rice production thus propelling Thailand to the top of rice production league with a lead of 10

f. A massive reduction in Thailand's carbon footprint thus keeping the green's happy.

g. Massive increase in the sales of hand moisturiser and manicures as the middle class return to the fields for the first time in 2 generations.

Or maybe, the farmers of Thailand might just forget to plant next year if you take away their vote?

How about preventing anyone voting or holding political office who cannot prove proof of birth in Thailand back at least 4 generations? Oh woops, that disqualifies half the parliament.

A Thai is a Thai, and if that changes, this country will deservedly go into meltdown.

[h90]

a lot closer example is Udon Thani

LOL - I didn't see that.

Another good example would be the recent uprising in Burma.

NBT now reporting that they have received the CD from PAD which claims to show violence being used against protesters. The news anchors have said that they are currently converting it to tape so that they can show it, as apparently they cannot play the video direct from the CD.

To be honest - I don't think I can buy that excuse. But since I don't know what equipment NBT has at their disposal, or what equipment may have been damaged in the preceding days, I guess we'll just have to wait.

I would rather ASTV just show it, for crying out loud - if they claim they have it, why not show it? What's the point of withholding it?

Every backyard cable TV provider can send every kind of format. So they can, and for sure they could in other cases, for sure ASTV would send it in 1 hour time in any other format. Or they go to the next supermarket and buy a VCD player for 500 Baht. They will have one device the can plug in SCART or SVideo cable.

[animatic]

I've got a few students down at the demonstrations. Some of them have been going with their families. They have not been paid to go down there. They're nice kids, a bit naive certainly, not a clue about some of the more dubious ideas and characters around the PAD, but genuinely enthusiastic about it all. And not a violent thought between them.

They are not scum.

They don't need their heads cracked.

I think the experience will do them some good. It'll give them something to think about and it's just good to see these kids actually becoming engaged in something outside MSN and the television.

I agree with your post.

I've just been speaking with my husband who's been at the site since Tuesday. Even he, as a Buddhist, was moved by the 'nam jai' of his fellow Thais. He told me everyone was helping each other with food and water. Thousands of them.

There were some five to six hundred police up in Government House awaiting orders, but soon saw they would have been overwhelmed by the sheer numbers who turned up for the rally and daren't leave. They hadn't had anything to eat for three days, and the only water was from a tap for washing. The people at the rally gave them food and water.

He also told me that when the police attempted to remove some people by force, they simply sat and looked at them and asked, 'you going to hit me? I won't stop you' in true Buddhist form. But he told me that for the majority of rally attendees, it wasn't at all dangerous, and what is shown on the tv are just a very small percentage of any trouble or violence there.

I think it would do some of the posters on this forum a world of good to be able to share this kind of experience.

Glad to see you posting in a much more informative manner than your opening posts - thanks. I hope your husband is okay.

I don't think the protesters want to cause trouble (except for a few rowdy ones like the security detail) and I really don't think the police want to intervene - but both sides understand that the police still have to do their job. I would not be surprised if a significant number of the police had members of their family supporting the PAD either.

I still take issue with some of the media reporting "brutality" - your post, and what I've seen all day, demonstrates otherwise, with some possible exceptions which ASTV is claiming they have on video and will release - and has yet to do so. Obviously there will be confrontations - but brutality would be obvious to the point where the police were literally beating up on protesters everywhere instead of using their riot shields as barriers, not unlike any other police force in the world.

Brutality is the crap you see from some notorious incidents in the US which inevitably involve police (both black and white) and a black man.

a lot closer example is Udon Thani

Exactly ther Chaing Mai and Udon Thani incidents likely were calculated to

make PAD arm up in self defense, but then suddenly look

more radical and martial when coming from the paid PR pundits mouths.

Add to that Gen P's subversion of PAD at NBC in the morning,

as he HAS admited setting it up now.

PPP was playing PAD in the hopes of discrediting them AND shutting them up, up north.

Then the Gen. used that new self defense posture as away of making them

'look' very bad BEFORE the showed up at NBT that morning.

All along the brutality was never coming from PAD.

But if this is the type of acts from their opposition,

is it any wonder that PAD have been taking harder and harder looks

at NEW IDEAS ABOUT HOW this country should move forward

and throwing about for discussion some ideas that may sound radical.

But maybe the problem is not so easily solved here

since the standard solutions clearly aren't working.

Edited August 29, 2008 by animatic

[h90]

For the record, I believe that the voting requirements will be changed for the next election. I don't see this Wiki thing being discussed this morning, but rather an educational requirement to qualify to vote which would be enforced. It would lead to local village heads pushing education which would be an upside, but for the time being would remove the threat of Thaksin incarnates continually being elected.

That is just my view and I expect a lot will disagree.

I am sure that many would disagree OMR, including myself because it denies the common man/women the right to vote.

BUT... After THINKING about it, does Thailand have any hope for Democracy without idea's such as this? It clearly is not working as it is now.

But what a paradoxy! How can a democracy be a democracy whilst actively denying certain people the right to vote? Well i S'pose that that is an impossibilty.

So what happens in the meantime? Should Thailand be allowed to carry on as it is, democratic for the sake of democracy and being raped for all it has by the selfish C**T's at the top. Or should a "Mediator" be appointed whilst this fledgling democracy to mature?

Is it possible to not have a democracy without communism or a dictatorship? Is there a "middle way"?

The mind boggles.

How about votes weighted on the amount of rice an individual produces. This would have the added benefits of:

a. Encouraging the sufficiency economy

b. Encouraging minimum wage labour to return to the fields thus developing the countryside

c. An increase in the sales of washing powder as middle class women learn to wash their own dishes

d. A reduction in the gross overcrowding of Bangkok's traffic as people returned home

e. A massive increase in Thailand's rice production thus propelling Thailand to the top of rice production league with a lead of 10

f. A massive reduction in Thailand's carbon footprint thus keeping the green's happy.

g. Massive increase in the sales of hand moisturiser and manicures as the middle class return to the fields for the first time in 2 generations.

Or maybe, the farmers of Thailand might just forget to plant next year if you take away their vote?

How about preventing anyone voting or holding political office who cannot prove proof of birth in Thailand back at least 4 generations? Oh woops, that disqualifies half the parliament.

A Thai is a Thai, and if that changes, this country will deservedly go into meltdown.

Or make harsh punishment for vote buying and for accepting the money.

for accepting it: Pay 10x the amount or if no money take any goods of that value and lifetime ban for elections

for vote buying: lifetime away from politics and not 5 years and a jail term.

[animatic]

a lot closer example is Udon Thani

LOL - I didn't see that.

Another good example would be the recent uprising in Burma.

NBT now reporting that they have received the CD from PAD which claims to show violence being used against protesters. The news anchors have said that they are currently converting it to tape so that they can show it, as apparently they cannot play the video direct from the CD.

To be honest - I don't think I can buy that excuse. But since I don't know what equipment NBT has at their disposal, or what equipment may have been damaged in the preceding days, I guess we'll just have to wait.

I would rather ASTV just show it, for crying out loud - if they claim they have it, why not show it? What's the point of withholding it?

Any good station has two or three Avid workstations.

Throw in the CD, transfer to hard disk and play to air

about 20 minutes for 10 minutes of DVD video.

They could play it in a DVD player,

record it during a first watching right to computer,

and pick two edit points, and throw the Grass Valley switcher,

and you are on air.

No, no, content editors are checking it for content that gets

their butts in a sling with the bosses.

[h90]

I've got a few students down at the demonstrations. Some of them have been going with their families. They have not been paid to go down there. They're nice kids, a bit naive certainly, not a clue about some of the more dubious ideas and characters around the PAD, but genuinely enthusiastic about it all. And not a violent thought between them.

They are not scum.

They don't need their heads cracked.

I think the experience will do them some good. It'll give them something to think about and it's just good to see these kids actually becoming engaged in something outside MSN and the television.

I agree with your post.

I've just been speaking with my husband who's been at the site since Tuesday. Even he, as a Buddhist, was moved by the 'nam jai' of his fellow Thais. He told me everyone was helping each other with food and water. Thousands of them.

There were some five to six hundred police up in Government House awaiting orders, but soon saw they would have been overwhelmed by the sheer numbers who turned up for the rally and daren't leave. They hadn't had anything to eat for three days, and the only water was from a tap for washing. The people at the rally gave them food and water.

He also told me that when the police attempted to remove some people by force, they simply sat and looked at them and asked, 'you going to hit me? I won't stop you' in true Buddhist form. But he told me that for the majority of rally attendees, it wasn't at all dangerous, and what is shown on the tv are just a very small percentage of any trouble or violence there.

I think it would do some of the posters on this forum a world of good to be able to share this kind of experience.

Glad to see you posting in a much more informative manner than your opening posts - thanks. I hope your husband is okay.

I don't think the protesters want to cause trouble (except for a few rowdy ones like the security detail) and I really don't think the police want to intervene - but both sides understand that the police still have to do their job. I would not be surprised if a significant number of the police had members of their family supporting the PAD either.

I still take issue with some of the media reporting "brutality" - your post, and what I've seen all day, demonstrates otherwise, with some possible exceptions which ASTV is claiming they have on video and will release - and has yet to do so. Obviously there will be confrontations - but brutality would be obvious to the point where the police were literally beating up on protesters everywhere instead of using their riot shields as barriers, not unlike any other police force in the world.

Brutality is the crap you see from some notorious incidents in the US which inevitably involve police (both black and white) and a black man.

a lot closer example is Udon Thani

Exactly ther Chaing Mai and Udon Thani inccidents likely were calculated to

make PAD arm up in sefl defense, but then suddenly look

more radical and martial when coming from the pundits mouths.

Add to that Panllop's subversion of PAD at NBC ,as he HAS admited setting it up now.

PPP was playing PAD in the hopes of discreiting them AND shutting them up up north.

Then the gen. used that new sef defense posture as away of making them

'look' very bad yesterday morning.

All along the brutality was never coming from PAD.

But if this is the type of acts from their opposition,

is it any wonder that PAD have been taking harder and harder looks

at NEW IDEAS ABOUT HOW this country should move forward a

nd throwing aboiut for duscission some ideas that may sound radical.

But maybe the problem is not so easily solved here

since the standard solutions clearly aren't working.

I think you overvalue Panllop....

There are a lot paramilitars which were set up to fight the communists in the south. There are a lot former Communist fighters, All support PAD, all try to help.

All are very nervous used to fight in the forest with the AKA and not in Bangkok with Chamlongs peacefull ideas.

You can expect that they are difficult to control and they are not really the smartest people around in Thailand.

[onethailand]

... as I was saying, I don't buy their excuse - but we also have no way of knowing what equipment in NBT is still in good working condition either. We also don't know what format the video is, though realistically, that shouldn't pose a problem either.

One does have to remember that if NBT in fact edit the video, ASTV still has the original... I highly doubt NBT would go out of their way to make fools of themselves.

Edited August 29, 2008 by onethailand

[iforget]

Maybe we need to take a step back here. There's no democracy I can think of that's arrived at perfection (vide USA, UK - those paragons). It takes TIME. Hundreds of years. Remember rotten boroughs? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotten_and_pocket_boroughs). The UK got rid of them eventually, but it took a long time.

The fact is we have, on the one side, an utterly corrupt and discredited, yet legally elected government (yes, yes, I know - corruption, vote buying etc, but they all do that, even in so-called super-democracies) stocked with odious people who are only after the money and don't plan to leave until they've got lots of it - which is why Samak's not quit yet.

On the other side in the current fight is a non-elected group whose leaders pitch themselves as saintly and peace-loving ("No! Don't hit that policeman!") but who actually believe that most people in this country are too bloody thick to elect a decent government, and therefore plan to kick out the foundations of democracy and set up some kind of nasty appointed plutocratic system.

Who is Sondhi? Was he ever elected to anything? Is he even a good businessman? Er, no. Is he clean? Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondhi_Limtho....281997-2001.29 and decide for yourself. Yet he has the arrogance to suggest that the average Thai (outside Bkk, of course) is too dim to know what's good for him/her.

Who's Chamlong? Sometimes charming and apparently utterly incorruptible. How did he become governor of Bkk? He was elected! So the system does work sometimes in favour of the righteous. But now he's getting bored because political nibbana is not arriving fast enough. Sigh.

The Samak governnment is odious, money-grubbing, divisive, ugly, incompetent and lots of otehr pejoratives, but it's still sort of "democratic". The PAD is absolutely not. It's never formed a polutical party. It's never run for election. If Sondhi has his way, how long will it be before the average dirt-poor farmer, thick though he may be, gets any say in anything? Not in Sondhi's lifetime, at least.

One does have to hope that the military stick by their statements that they will not launch another coup. It might be popular if they do launch one, but it opens the door to Sondhi killing democracy for many years. It would be a huge setback.

As Winston Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government…except for all the others."

Edited August 29, 2008 by iforget

[Thai at Heart]

For the record, I believe that the voting requirements will be changed for the next election. I don't see this Wiki thing being discussed this morning, but rather an educational requirement to qualify to vote which would be enforced. It would lead to local village heads pushing education which would be an upside, but for the time being would remove the threat of Thaksin incarnates continually being elected.

That is just my view and I expect a lot will disagree.

I am sure that many would disagree OMR, including myself because it denies the common man/women the right to vote.

BUT... After THINKING about it, does Thailand have any hope for Democracy without idea's such as this? It clearly is not working as it is now.

But what a paradoxy! How can a democracy be a democracy whilst actively denying certain people the right to vote? Well i S'pose that that is an impossibilty.

So what happens in the meantime? Should Thailand be allowed to carry on as it is, democratic for the sake of democracy and being raped for all it has by the selfish C**T's at the top. Or should a "Mediator" be appointed whilst this fledgling democracy to mature?

Is it possible to not have a democracy without communism or a dictatorship? Is there a "middle way"?

The mind boggles.

How about votes weighted on the amount of rice an individual produces. This would have the added benefits of:

a. Encouraging the sufficiency economy

b. Encouraging minimum wage labour to return to the fields thus developing the countryside

c. An increase in the sales of washing powder as middle class women learn to wash their own dishes

d. A reduction in the gross overcrowding of Bangkok's traffic as people returned home

e. A massive increase in Thailand's rice production thus propelling Thailand to the top of rice production league with a lead of 10

f. A massive reduction in Thailand's carbon footprint thus keeping the green's happy.

g. Massive increase in the sales of hand moisturiser and manicures as the middle class return to the fields for the first time in 2 generations.

Or maybe, the farmers of Thailand might just forget to plant next year if you take away their vote?

How about preventing anyone voting or holding political office who cannot prove proof of birth in Thailand back at least 4 generations? Oh woops, that disqualifies half the parliament.

A Thai is a Thai, and if that changes, this country will deservedly go into meltdown.

Or make harsh punishment for vote buying and for accepting the money.

for accepting it: Pay 10x the amount or if no money take any goods of that value and lifetime ban for elections

for vote buying: lifetime away from politics and not 5 years and a jail term.

Fine with me. Hang anyone offering money for a vote. A drug dealer only hurts his customer and direct contacts and he gets a bullet. A vote buyer puts the whole country in this mess. So that is that, the absurd idea of removing one man one vote has been sorted then. I hope it never rears it's ugly divisive head again.

[h90]

a lot closer example is Udon Thani

LOL - I didn't see that.

Another good example would be the recent uprising in Burma.

NBT now reporting that they have received the CD from PAD which claims to show violence being used against protesters. The news anchors have said that they are currently converting it to tape so that they can show it, as apparently they cannot play the video direct from the CD.

To be honest - I don't think I can buy that excuse. But since I don't know what equipment NBT has at their disposal, or what equipment may have been damaged in the preceding days, I guess we'll just have to wait.

I would rather ASTV just show it, for crying out loud - if they claim they have it, why not show it? What's the point of withholding it?

Any good station has two or three Avid workstations.

Throw in the CD, transfer to hard disk and play to air

about 20 minutes for 10 minutes of DVD video.

They could play it in a DVD player,

record it during a first watching right to computer,

and pick two edit points, and throw the Grass Valley switcher,

and you are on air.

No, no, content editors are checking it for content that gets

their butts in a sling with the bosses.

Maybe they don't want to get raid from the police, if they send it....

Or they need a shedule:

Saturday 5-5.30: PAD raid

Saturday 6-6.30: Police raid

Saturday 7-7.30: free no raid

Saturday 8-30 PAD....

[onethailand]

Seems NBT is aware that people don't believe them - the anchors clarified that the video is still being transferred to tape, and assured everyone that they would be able to compare it with the other channels who would undoubtedly be showing the video as well.

[bazmlb]

PM granted an audience with HM the King

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej is granted an audience with HM the King to report the situation in the country, an informed source said.

Samak went to HM the King's Klaikangwon Palace in Hua Hin on Friday's evening.

The Nation

[h90]

For the record, I believe that the voting requirements will be changed for the next election. I don't see this Wiki thing being discussed this morning, but rather an educational requirement to qualify to vote which would be enforced. It would lead to local village heads pushing education which would be an upside, but for the time being would remove the threat of Thaksin incarnates continually being elected.

That is just my view and I expect a lot will disagree.

I am sure that many would disagree OMR, including myself because it denies the common man/women the right to vote.

BUT... After THINKING about it, does Thailand have any hope for Democracy without idea's such as this? It clearly is not working as it is now.

But what a paradoxy! How can a democracy be a democracy whilst actively denying certain people the right to vote? Well i S'pose that that is an impossibilty.

So what happens in the meantime? Should Thailand be allowed to carry on as it is, democratic for the sake of democracy and being raped for all it has by the selfish C**T's at the top. Or should a "Mediator" be appointed whilst this fledgling democracy to mature?

Is it possible to not have a democracy without communism or a dictatorship? Is there a "middle way"?

The mind boggles.

How about votes weighted on the amount of rice an individual produces. This would have the added benefits of:

a. Encouraging the sufficiency economy

b. Encouraging minimum wage labour to return to the fields thus developing the countryside

c. An increase in the sales of washing powder as middle class women learn to wash their own dishes

d. A reduction in the gross overcrowding of Bangkok's traffic as people returned home

e. A massive increase in Thailand's rice production thus propelling Thailand to the top of rice production league with a lead of 10

f. A massive reduction in Thailand's carbon footprint thus keeping the green's happy.

g. Massive increase in the sales of hand moisturiser and manicures as the middle class return to the fields for the first time in 2 generations.

Or maybe, the farmers of Thailand might just forget to plant next year if you take away their vote?

How about preventing anyone voting or holding political office who cannot prove proof of birth in Thailand back at least 4 generations? Oh woops, that disqualifies half the parliament.

A Thai is a Thai, and if that changes, this country will deservedly go into meltdown.

Or make harsh punishment for vote buying and for accepting the money.

for accepting it: Pay 10x the amount or if no money take any goods of that value and lifetime ban for elections

for vote buying: lifetime away from politics and not 5 years and a jail term.

Fine with me. Hang anyone offering money for a vote. A drug dealer only hurts his customer and direct contacts and he gets a bullet. A vote buyer puts the whole country in this mess. So that is that, the absurd idea of removing one man one vote has been sorted then. I hope it never rears it's ugly divisive head again.

A small problem, corruption: Police and courts and the courts are so slow....

But catching 1 or 2 of the buyers and a large amount of the bought voters may reduce it.

Actually the complete election should be nullified, but that's not a way to go in Thailand, as there would be never again any government.

[plachon]

For the record, I believe that the voting requirements will be changed for the next election. I don't see this Wiki thing being discussed this morning, but rather an educational requirement to qualify to vote which would be enforced. It would lead to local village heads pushing education which would be an upside, but for the time being would remove the threat of Thaksin incarnates continually being elected.

That is just my view and I expect a lot will disagree.

I am sure that many would disagree OMR, including myself because it denies the common man/women the right to vote.

BUT... After THINKING about it, does Thailand have any hope for Democracy without idea's such as this? It clearly is not working as it is now.

But what a paradoxy! How can a democracy be a democracy whilst actively denying certain people the right to vote? Well i S'pose that that is an impossibilty.

So what happens in the meantime? Should Thailand be allowed to carry on as it is, democratic for the sake of democracy and being raped for all it has by the selfish C**T's at the top. Or should a "Mediator" be appointed whilst this fledgling democracy to mature?

Is it possible to not have a democracy without communism or a dictatorship? Is there a "middle way"?

The mind boggles.

How about votes weighted on the amount of rice an individual produces. This would have the added benefits of:

a. Encouraging the sufficiency economy

b. Encouraging minimum wage labour to return to the fields thus developing the countryside

c. An increase in the sales of washing powder as middle class women learn to wash their own dishes

d. A reduction in the gross overcrowding of Bangkok's traffic as people returned home

e. A massive increase in Thailand's rice production thus propelling Thailand to the top of rice production league with a lead of 10

f. A massive reduction in Thailand's carbon footprint thus keeping the green's happy.

g. Massive increase in the sales of hand moisturiser and manicures as the middle class return to the fields for the first time in 2 generations.

Or maybe, the farmers of Thailand might just forget to plant next year if you take away their vote?

How about preventing anyone voting or holding political office who cannot prove proof of birth in Thailand back at least 4 generations? Oh woops, that disqualifies half the parliament.

A Thai is a Thai, and if that changes, this country will deservedly go into meltdown.

Or make harsh punishment for vote buying and for accepting the money.

for accepting it: Pay 10x the amount or if no money take any goods of that value and lifetime ban for elections

for vote buying: lifetime away from politics and not 5 years and a jail term.

Judging from a recent thread in the Isaan forum on vote buying/selling, at least half the farangs in that region would be poorer and have a wife banned from voting for life, if your proposal was implemented. Is this why so many apparently yearn for the Toxin years, when vote buying became a standard practice down to village headman and Or Bor Tor election level, and their wives would give the walking ATM a break for a day or two from nagging for money.

One of Toxin's legacies was to get the masses to scrap amongst themselves for bones, while he feasted on the finest sirloin steak from creaming off mega-projects. You can see by the way Samak just rushed to announce new mega-projects just days from being elected that he and Thaksin thought the good days of rape and pillage were here again; but that was before the porcine-faced thug had figured on PAD's watchdog role. It'll be back to burning the pad thai and tasting/complaining to his neighbours for him I fear before long. He'll soon be history; but who will step into the breach and make peace amongst the factions is the only question? Or, will PAD go the whole hog and force the entire PPP muppet show out?

[h90]

PM granted an audience with HM the King

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej is granted an audience with HM the King to report the situation in the country, an informed source said.

Samak went to HM the King's Klaikangwon Palace in Hua Hin on Friday's evening.

The Nation

Please everyone recall the many audiences Thaksin had and used to cool down the situation....

Speaking with the king is highly regarded....so do it and maybe the mob goes home or weakens

And why on Friday? Why not tomorrow?

[sriracha john]

[Thai at Heart]

For the record, I believe that the voting requirements will be changed for the next election. I don't see this Wiki thing being discussed this morning, but rather an educational requirement to qualify to vote which would be enforced. It would lead to local village heads pushing education which would be an upside, but for the time being would remove the threat of Thaksin incarnates continually being elected.

That is just my view and I expect a lot will disagree.

I am sure that many would disagree OMR, including myself because it denies the common man/women the right to vote.

BUT... After THINKING about it, does Thailand have any hope for Democracy without idea's such as this? It clearly is not working as it is now.

But what a paradoxy! How can a democracy be a democracy whilst actively denying certain people the right to vote? Well i S'pose that that is an impossibilty.

So what happens in the meantime? Should Thailand be allowed to carry on as it is, democratic for the sake of democracy and being raped for all it has by the selfish C**T's at the top. Or should a "Mediator" be appointed whilst this fledgling democracy to mature?

Is it possible to not have a democracy without communism or a dictatorship? Is there a "middle way"?

The mind boggles.

How about votes weighted on the amount of rice an individual produces. This would have the added benefits of:

a. Encouraging the sufficiency economy

b. Encouraging minimum wage labour to return to the fields thus developing the countryside

c. An increase in the sales of washing powder as middle class women learn to wash their own dishes

d. A reduction in the gross overcrowding of Bangkok's traffic as people returned home

e. A massive increase in Thailand's rice production thus propelling Thailand to the top of rice production league with a lead of 10

f. A massive reduction in Thailand's carbon footprint thus keeping the green's happy.

g. Massive increase in the sales of hand moisturiser and manicures as the middle class return to the fields for the first time in 2 generations.

Or maybe, the farmers of Thailand might just forget to plant next year if you take away their vote?

How about preventing anyone voting or holding political office who cannot prove proof of birth in Thailand back at least 4 generations? Oh woops, that disqualifies half the parliament.

A Thai is a Thai, and if that changes, this country will deservedly go into meltdown.

Or make harsh punishment for vote buying and for accepting the money.

for accepting it: Pay 10x the amount or if no money take any goods of that value and lifetime ban for elections

for vote buying: lifetime away from politics and not 5 years and a jail term.

Fine with me. Hang anyone offering money for a vote. A drug dealer only hurts his customer and direct contacts and he gets a bullet. A vote buyer puts the whole country in this mess. So that is that, the absurd idea of removing one man one vote has been sorted then. I hope it never rears it's ugly divisive head again.

A small problem, corruption: Police and courts and the courts are so slow....

But catching 1 or 2 of the buyers and a large amount of the bought voters may reduce it.

Actually the complete election should be nullified, but that's not a way to go in Thailand, as there would be never again any government.

Ah, so the nub of the problem isn't the relative intelligence of the voter, but the corruption. What an insight.

Well, if the legal system can't enforce the law, is that a reason to disenfranchise half the population. Voter euthenasia at birth on the base of ancestral IQ? That could be a very efficient way of sorting it all out huh?

Is what the PAD doing now any different than trying to nullify the last election?

20 years and fine of 300mn baht to be taken from direct family assets.

I wonder if half the older members of the PAD realise that their leader would have them dust off their high school diplomas to vote?

[Old Man River]

For the record, I believe that the voting requirements will be changed for the next election. I don't see this Wiki thing being discussed this morning, but rather an educational requirement to qualify to vote which would be enforced. It would lead to local village heads pushing education which would be an upside, but for the time being would remove the threat of Thaksin incarnates continually being elected.

That is just my view and I expect a lot will disagree.

I am sure that many would disagree OMR, including myself because it denies the common man/women the right to vote.

BUT... After THINKING about it, does Thailand have any hope for Democracy without idea's such as this? It clearly is not working as it is now.

But what a paradoxy! How can a democracy be a democracy whilst actively denying certain people the right to vote? Well i S'pose that that is an impossibilty.

So what happens in the meantime? Should Thailand be allowed to carry on as it is, democratic for the sake of democracy and being raped for all it has by the selfish C**T's at the top. Or should a "Mediator" be appointed whilst this fledgling democracy to mature?

Is it possible to not have a democracy without communism or a dictatorship? Is there a "middle way"?

The mind boggles.

How about votes weighted on the amount of rice an individual produces. This would have the added benefits of:

a. Encouraging the sufficiency economy

b. Encouraging minimum wage labour to return to the fields thus developing the countryside

c. An increase in the sales of washing powder as middle class women learn to wash their own dishes

d. A reduction in the gross overcrowding of Bangkok's traffic as people returned home

e. A massive increase in Thailand's rice production thus propelling Thailand to the top of rice production league with a lead of 10

f. A massive reduction in Thailand's carbon footprint thus keeping the green's happy.

g. Massive increase in the sales of hand moisturiser and manicures as the middle class return to the fields for the first time in 2 generations.

Or maybe, the farmers of Thailand might just forget to plant next year if you take away their vote?

How about preventing anyone voting or holding political office who cannot prove proof of birth in Thailand back at least 4 generations? Oh woops, that disqualifies half the parliament.

A Thai is a Thai, and if that changes, this country will deservedly go into meltdown.

Or make harsh punishment for vote buying and for accepting the money.

for accepting it: Pay 10x the amount or if no money take any goods of that value and lifetime ban for elections

for vote buying: lifetime away from politics and not 5 years and a jail term.

Fine with me. Hang anyone offering money for a vote. A drug dealer only hurts his customer and direct contacts and he gets a bullet. A vote buyer puts the whole country in this mess. So that is that, the absurd idea of removing one man one vote has been sorted then. I hope it never rears it's ugly divisive head again.

Except of course that my premise for bringing this up was based on certain power groups in Thailand that would be very happy not to see a TRT/PPP party re elected in the next election. Neither the TRT nor the PPP won due to vote buying. Hence, eliminating vote buying doesn't solve what some would consider a very big problem.

You might find the alternatives much worse than this.