PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[ando]

Well on this one I must note

PAD tries to go up there, but are met with bands of

PPP or TRT sympathetic thugs who violently beat them until they leave.

These bands actively prevent PAD from talking up there.

JUST TALKING is enough of a threat. Information control to control the populace.

EVERY time I have heard of a PAD trip up north it has ended this way.

As recently as this summer

And this is why PAD has guards with sticks. Self defense posture.

They want to be able to talk with out beatings.

Since they are now armed as such, the PPP sympathetic bands

now are not showing up like before. Cause and effect in both directions.

OK. Firstly you should understand that PAD is NOT a political party and that can NOT offer the poor people of Issarn anything.

PAD is a political activist organization whose only interest in the Northern Provence people is to recruit dissidents who will actively oppose those politicians offering a better deal in life for Issarn people. PAD has absolutely nothing to offer the people of the North East and couldn't deliver anything they might promise since they are not a part of government anyway. PADs foray into the North was with nothing more than intent to create diviseness among the people. And as such was treated with contempt and disdain.

I am sure PAD was looking for trouble when it went into the North as the organization is certainly portraying itself as a professional victim in the hope of enticing the military into this conflict.

[trigger571]

Oh my god. This can't be good in the current climate. Bound to cause even more violence

Anti-PAD group builds stage at Sanam Luang

(BangkokPost.com) – Anti-People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) set its main stage on Sanam Luang on Saturday as a venue to express their disagreement with the PAD.

About 200 members of Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) wearing red shirts built the stage on the venue to prepare to show their opposition against the anti-government group.

Interested people walking pass by sign their names in support of the group

[unomi]

PAD don't really have a leg to stand on because what do think is going to happen if they dissolve parliament and call another election?

They will lose again that is what will happen.

No, they won't. 65% of Thais voted for anti Thaksin parties in the last election. The PPP only got a bit over 35% of the vote, the only reason they won more seats (yet still under 50% of them) was because the anti Thaksin vote was split among several parties. People won't be as stupid this time around, they will vote for a single party instead of splitting their votes among many.

Personally I find the concept of coalition governments appealing, seems to work well for the majority of european countries, a way to counteract the divisiveness of 2 party politics while also allowing people to choose to vote on issues rather than personalities. 

[ando]

HOW MANY TIMES does it need saying on here that the PAD is NOT, and has NO intention of being a political party?

Perhaps they should butt out of politics then.

[Tony Clifton]

Thai riot police prepare before clashing with the supporters of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) inside the Government House in Bangkok August 29, 2008.

REUTERS

The PR value of the picture of the policeman pointing a rifle at a protestor at point blank range is very high

The rifle is there in the picture in the first place and I highly doubt the safety is on. There's no defending it by any stretch of the imagination.

another...

They had barrels pointing in all directions...

The second Image Has Been Manipulated.If you look Carefully The angles of Eyesight are of 2 different Trajectories.Crowd/Police Suggesting that Photoshop has been used (or simular) To cut and join a foreground and background clip together.

The "Weapons" seen Here are Tear Gas Rifles and if fired at point 0 at a living being could prove fatal.That said One is usually trained to NEVER "Pump" a Teargas round into the chamber unless one is commited to Firing it right away.(Swedish and UK Police have helped arm and train the Police in Bangkok and nationally.Also Immigrations Police for bomb and drug detection at Airports)

Sondhi owns/presides over (manager.com)These days Digital technology makes it very difficult to rely upon the validity of a photograph.Video is still OK and Eyewitnesses are best.

More nonsense.

Great batting average.

[KhaoNiaw]

Well on this one I must note

PAD tries to go up there, but are met with bands of

PPP or TRT sympathetic thugs who violently beat them until they leave.

These bands actively prevent PAD from talking up there.

JUST TALKING is enough of a threat. Information control to control the populace.

EVERY time I have heard of a PAD trip up north it has ended this way.

As recently as this summer

And this is why PAD has guards with sticks. Self defense posture.

They want to be able to talk with out beatings.

Since they are now armed as such, the PPP sympathetic bands

now are not showing up like before. Cause and effect in both directions.

Lets try to understand something important here. PAD is NOT a political party that can NOT offer the peasants of Issarn anything. PAD is a political activist group and when it goes into the North it can offer nothing. Yet it seeks to recruit supporters who will actively work to oppose those politicians who DO in fact offer some hope of a better life under a democratic system. Is it any wonder why the PAD is not welcome in the poorer communities up North.

You make the same mistake as the proponents of the 'rural peasants are ignorant' view by lumping them all together as 'the peasants of Issan'. Far too simplistic. TRT/PPP never received anything like 100% of the rural vote because 'the peasants' are not a homogeneous bunch who share the same views or have the same aspirations.

Some rural voters thought about things carefully and decided to vote for TRT/PPP because they felt it would be in their interests.

Some rural voters thought about things carefully and decided to NOT vote for TRT/PPP because they didn't feel it would be in their interests. (e.g. My F-i-L, a rice farmer who always followed politics very closely, was suspicious about the conditions attached to so the loan schemes, understood that Mr. T. changed the law which allowed him to make a killing within weeks by selling off his company, and, the last straw, he was horrified to see TRT goons laying into elderly protesters).

Some rural voters didn't really have a clue and decided to vote for TRT/PPP because of the enducements they were offered or for other reasons. (e.g. My M-i-L thought Mr. T was spending his own personal fortune on poor people).

Some rural voters didn't really have a clue and decided NOT to vote for TRT/PPP because of the enducements they were offered by other parties or for other reasons.

For the most part, voting TRT/PPP still returned the same old faces. If those 'influential people' had not gone with TRT, and TRT had fielded some local unknown against them, the unknown would not have been elected.

Many middle-class professional people in Bangkok and elsewhere still have close connections with their rural origins. There is plenty of room for common political ground. The early TRT did Thai politics a service by putting issues like universal health care on the agenda. That's not something that should only appeal to the rural masses. TRT had a chance to really push an agenda that could appeal to different sectors of society but the inability to accept criticism and clamping down on a relatively free press cost them. Don't forget that politics here is, in the main, not even open to educated professionals. The only avenue for them is also to be out on the streets, something the PAD is making use of here.

To get democracy off the ground, it needs the whole political scene to be opened up, not just the same old people bearing gifts for the rural poor.

Edited August 30, 2008 by KhaoNiaw

[TAWP]

HOW MANY TIMES does it need saying on here that the PAD is NOT, and has NO intention of being a political party?

Perhaps they should butt out of politics then.

That has to take the price...congratulations.

What you are proposing is fascism, when only a few selected can talk politics.

Wasn't that what you cried against?

[ando]

PAD don't really have a leg to stand on because what do think is going to happen if they dissolve parliament and call another election?

They will lose again that is what will happen.

No, they won't. 65% of Thais voted for anti Thaksin parties in the last election. The PPP only got a bit over 35% of the vote, the only reason they won more seats (yet still under 50% of them) was because the anti Thaksin vote was split among several parties. People won't be as stupid this time around, they will vote for a single party instead of splitting their votes among many.

I hate to disappoint you. But Thaksin wasn't running in the last election.

This projected obsession with Thaksin is masking a much more sinister agenda by the elite class.

[jitagon]

Thai riot police prepare before clashing with the supporters of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) inside the Government House in Bangkok August 29, 2008.

REUTERS

The PR value of the picture of the policeman pointing a rifle at a protestor at point blank range is very high

The rifle is there in the picture in the first place and I highly doubt the safety is on. There's no defending it by any stretch of the imagination.

another...

They had barrels pointing in all directions...

The second Image Has Been Manipulated.If you look Carefully The angles of Eyesight are of 2 different Trajectories.Crowd/Police Suggesting that Photoshop has been used (or simular) To cut and join a foreground and background clip together.

The "Weapons" seen Here are Tear Gas Rifles and if fired at point 0 at a living being could prove fatal.That said One is usually trained to NEVER "Pump" a Teargas round into the chamber unless one is commited to Firing it right away.(Swedish and UK Police have helped arm and train the Police in Bangkok and nationally.Also Immigrations Police for bomb and drug detection at Airports)

Sondhi owns/presides over (manager.com)These days Digital technology makes it very difficult to rely upon the validity of a photograph.Video is still OK and Eyewitnesses are best.

I totally agree. I am a professional user of Photoshop, and these pictures are so obviously manipulated - they haven't even bothered to resize the pixels of the gun properly in the second photograph, you can see the jagged edges of the larger pixels overlapping the background, and the following two, the guns are in sharp relief, ie 'selected' and pasted into another image. If it is one of Sondhi's graphic designers, I would have thought he might have considered the damage to his credibility in circulating these crude images when they're accusing the PPP aka Taksin of so many 'dirty tricks'.

Edited August 30, 2008 by jitagon

[Samuian]

....

Should the PAD which is not even a political party be able to force an elected government out of office with a crowd of protesters that amount to only a fraction of one percent of total voters it could well represent the death of the democratic process in Thailand.

Right its not a party and the leaders once said they don't want to become one, but the PAD represents so far the people!

And voices their opinion, and anyone who whishes to air an opinion is welcome to do so!

Where is the "majority" of voters who "democratically" accepted bribes for their right to vote, why aren't they supporting their "democratically" elected government of do'gooder's ??

If one buys his votes, he buys paper, no voices, no people, that is what backfires so badly now on this government, instant karma, as buddhists they should have known better!, No?

One could equally ask the question of why PAD is not protesting in the distant rice fields of Issarn if it wants to overturn the popular vote up there. But the fact is that PADs core support base is in Bangkok as I am sure you well know.

Voting patterns have consistently shown that the party who offers the best deal to the poor gets elected. That trend can not be dismissed by allegations of vote buying alone. Not surprising really when you consider the gross inequities in Thai society. These trends will continue while such gross social inequity persists and the poor are able to vote under a democratic system. Such is the reason why PAD wants an appointed government rather than an elected one.

That is the widespread misconception of ost people who herald the "democratically elected government" it NOT - NO WAY!

Since ever the factions, Newin Chidchob isone of the kay figures he alone holds 40 seats - a BIG influence in the northeast!

It's the lobby, the presence, the representatives of the "parties", (the clan, the mob), key figures like the Kamnans and the Puu Yai Ban - why was there an attempt to abolish this system - because they had the influence, the hand in it - some of the clans for generations! nobody around a village, a moo ban, tambon would act against the village head - this would be compared to treason!

it is also deep rooted to stick together, the basic necessity was to have plenty of helping hands for the rice planting and harvest!

This system has been abused by the authorities to be, abused, not utilized in fairness, Pak Moon Dam?

Where ever they had their hand on - No chance for an Opposition Politician to set up Business or office... he was a dead man!

Sorry.... Politics as usual and this is going to be changing, slowly but surely!

It will take time... but the "old boys" have had their chance!

[marshbags]

Hello

This is the first time i am writing a comment to this situation.

Many people complain about PAD trying to topple thge "democratically elected" government around Samak. Now, thing is, he was NOT "democratically" elected. Elected, yes. By the people, yes. But NOT "democratically", which would be when people vote for him because they like him or his political plans.

Nope. Samapk (respectively PPP respectively Thaksin who is behind them) PAID the people to vote for them. And for me, this is not "hearsay" - i was there when the PPP guys came 'round handing out 200 Baht to everyone promising to vote for them 5 days later. Plus the village headman (this happened in a small village outside Chiang Mai) made his announcement through the village P.A. system (loudspeaker towers) that "if you vote for PPP you will all have a better life". Surely, PPP had given him a considerable amount of money for this "mission".

Of course, almost the whole village voted for PPP, most of those people are farmers who couldn't be bothered by politics but 200 Baht feeds them for a week, THAT was what counted.

Now PAD's plan was to get rid of Thaksin for a number of reasons. Voila, with the coup, THAT got done, and PAD went silent. HOWEVER with this "democratic" election they got him right back! Silently in the background, but everyone knows that "PPP" is "TRT, Mark II". So they (PAD) got active again to get rid of them, essentially for a second time.

Already now, in anticipation of things to come, "TRT, Mark III" is founded and ready to become active. Thaksin's money is flowing, and if there is a new election, my bets are that either PPP (if still active) or the new "TRT, Mark III" will win THAT election, too. And again, 200 Baht will be paid for the farmers, and the loudspeakers will talk of the "better life to come for voters".

And again PAD will fight, and people on this board will complain about "how can they try to topple a democratically elected government".

Democratic, my @ss.

Best regards......

Thanh

No. If the PPP is guilty of vote buying let the courts deal with it. It's not an excuse for mob rule. Are you saying that no one legitimately voted for the PPP?

Funny you should mention vote buying because PAD were down in Pattaya the other day recruiting people to go up to Bangkok and join the demo. They were offering 400baht and free meals!

PAD don't really have a leg to stand on because what do think is going to happen if they dissolve parliament and call another election?

While ever this abuse of power and minipulation / intepretation of the present election laws allow them to become surrogate parties, ect. under another banner, which in my view makes a complete farce of the honest intentions they are meant to represent, you are sadly, saying it as it is.

Red card should be Red card and a complete ban for 5 years which incorporates any connection whatsoever and in any form, period.

Anyone found to be advising, funding or as is continually happening at present sponsoring and paying for a front man to lead the banned party under another name should earn whoever a lifetime ban and substancial jail time with no out on bail relief while appeal after appeal ect. ect. is slowly dragged through the courts legal system.

One strike and your out for the full term imposed, or yes as you say as per penalty and not allowed any sort of involvement whatsoever.

ONLY then will some sort of breaking the mould take place and hopefully by the time they are again eligible to become involved, they will have got to old, expired or best of all, a new and honest type of Democracy Thai style with officials of integrity who cna prevent them carying out more of the same, where they left off ex amount of years ago.

What a manipulative abuse of power this is, at present, open too, democracy, don,t make me laugh, while ever these criminals, who should be in jail continue to dishonestly use their undeserved power, it can never be realised, in the true sense of the word.

IMHO of course, or as you say................................

They will lose again that is what will happen.

Instead of carrying on like a bunch of pork chops they should be looking ahead to the next election and working out a strategy that gets them democratically elected.

Their current show of truculence is not winning them any new supporters and in fact is alienating some people. And of course destatbilising the country and costing the country a lot of lost revenue.

[sriracha john]

The statement from students representing Chulalongkorn and Thammasat is most telling:

Students call on govt and PAD to quit

By The Nation

The National Institute of Development Administration (NIDA) yesterday issued an official statement advising the government to step down, while Chulalongkorn and Thammasat universities called on the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to stop rallying.

According to the statement, students from NIDA's School of Social and Environmental Development are worried that there will be a repeat of the bloody October 14, 1973, and May, 1992 uprisings, and want the government to withdraw all police officers and do the responsible thing by resigning.

The statement also said the PAD should stop rallying after the government resigns, and has called on the media to report the news in a moral and balanced manner.

However, students from the two universities issued a statement condemning the PAD, saying that their protest was destroying democracy and that peaceful means were not being used.

All sides said they had issued the statements independently.

Thammasat students have been at the heart of most protests in the past. The fact that they are distancing themselves from this one is, in itself, a very strong signal.

Kent State University was a pivotal site in the history of American protest. My father, who was an alumnae was saddened by students who, even when he revisited in the 1990's, were unaware of the significance of its role. Times change... students change... history changes... and nowadays we have busloads of university students arriving at critical points in the week and whose arrival were no doubt inspirational to those already in attendance. It speaks of its relevance to PAD as yet another faction of society being represented. The whole arena of academia is very well represented in PAD.

What's missing, as it to be expected in a brief article, are specifically who the "statement" came from and how much of the student body do they represent. The terrific thing that justifies Thomassat's reputation is the diversity of thought and variances of opinion.

For all we know, the statement was from a group that is not representative of a majority or prevalent opinion of the students or the faculty.

Edited August 30, 2008 by sriracha john

[Samuian]

....

Should the PAD which is not even a political party be able to force an elected government out of office with a crowd of protesters that amount to only a fraction of one percent of total voters it could well represent the death of the democratic process in Thailand.

Right its not a party and the leaders once said they don't want to become one, but the PAD represents so far the people!

And voices their opinion, and anyone who whishes to air an opinion is welcome to do so!

Where is the "majority" of voters who "democratically" accepted bribes for their right to vote, why aren't they supporting their "democratically" elected government of do'gooder's ??

If one buys his votes, he buys paper, no voices, no people, that is what backfires so badly now on this government, instant karma, as buddhists they should have known better!, No?

One could equally ask the question of why PAD is not protesting in the distant rice fields of Issarn if it wants to overturn the popular vote up there. But the fact is that PADs core support base is in Bangkok as I am sure you well know.

Voting patterns have consistently shown that the party who offers the best deal to the poor gets elected. That trend can not be dismissed by allegations of vote buying alone. Not surprising really when you consider the gross inequities in Thai society. These trends will continue while such gross social inequity persists and the poor are able to vote under a democratic system. Such is the reason why PAD wants an appointed government rather than an elected one.

That is the widespread misconception of ost people who herald the "democratically elected government" it NOT - NO WAY!

Since ever the factions, Newin Chidchob is one of the key figures he alone holds 40 seats - a BIG influence in the northeast!

It's the lobby, the presence, the representatives of the "parties", (the clan, the mob), key figures like the Kamnans and the Puu Yai Ban - why was there an attempt to abolish this system - because they had the influence, the hand in it - some of the clans for generations! nobody around a village, a moo ban, tambon would act against the village head - this would be comparable to treason!

it is deep rooted to stick together, the basic necessity was to have plenty of helping hands for the rice planting and harvest!

Bangkok, Udon, Korat are light years away from rural communities!

This system has been abused by the authorities to be, abused, not utilized in fairness, Pak Moon Dam?

Where ever they had their hand on - No chance for an Opposition Politician to set up Business or office...if he would resist..cause "trouble", he was a dead man!

Sorry.... Politics as usual and this is going to be changing, slowly but surely!

It will take time... but the "old boys" have had their chance!

[frodo]

Samak vows to stay

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said he would not quit and he will stay on.

Samak said that he didn't want to touch upon politics but he wanted to inform the public that he would continue working. His speech and the ceremony at Rajamakala Stadium was broadcast live on NBT channel. Some cabinet members were present.

He ended his speech by saying that he has got to go, hinting that he would seek an audience with "Jao Nai".

His government is inept, he has proven this past week that he has no real authority, his allies in the military and members of the coalition have turned against him and have asked him to step down. He really has no support at this point. What a selfish jackass. Whatever happens from this point, is his bad.

source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30082000

[Tony Clifton]

PAD don't really have a leg to stand on because what do think is going to happen if they dissolve parliament and call another election?

They will lose again that is what will happen.

No, they won't. 65% of Thais voted for anti Thaksin parties in the last election. The PPP only got a bit over 35% of the vote, the only reason they won more seats (yet still under 50% of them) was because the anti Thaksin vote was split among several parties. People won't be as stupid this time around, they will vote for a single party instead of splitting their votes among many.

I hate to disappoint you. But Thaksin wasn't running in the last election.

This projected obsession with Thaksin is masking a much more sinister agenda by the elite class.

I hate to disappoint you but there is ample mention in news articles of his meetings with cabinet members and zombies flying to China, Hong Kong and the U.K over a period of two years, some even tried saying it was by chance they ran into each other abroad. He is still and wants to remain the Little Emperor until he gets his frozen funds back. Everyone knows Thaksin was running in the last election.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[onethailand]

Kent State University was a pivotal site in the history of American protest. My father, who was an alumnae was saddened by students who, even when he revisited in the 1990's, were unaware of the significance of its role. Times change... students change... history changes... and nowadays we have busloads of university students arriving at critical points in the week and whose arrival were no doubt inspirational to those already in attendance. It speaks of its relevance to PAD as yet another faction of society being represented. The whole arena of academia is very well represented in PAD.

Kent State was indeed a blot on US history. But to be honest, I don't know a whole lot about it either - it was too long ago and no one made much of an effort to keep this event alive in the memories of the younger generation.

What's missing, as it to be expected in a brief article, are specifically who the "statement" came from and how much of the student body do they represent. The terrific thing that justifies Thomassat's reputation is the diversity of thought and variances of opinion.

For all we know, the statement was from a group that is not representative of a majority or prevalent opinion of the students or the faculty.

Good point, I can agree with that. But I will also further add that Thammasat's presence at a rally is traditionally very visible - and if they are at the PAD rally, they sure as heck haven't been seen.

[sriracha john]

PM to be granted an audience with HM the King at 5pm Saturday

5:15pm Saturday

[ando]

HOW MANY TIMES does it need saying on here that the PAD is NOT, and has NO intention of being a political party?

Perhaps they should butt out of politics then.

That has to take the price...congratulations.

What you are proposing is fascism, when only a few selected can talk politics.

Wasn't that what you cried against?

And you think creating anarchy -- blockading streets, attacking Police stations, invading TV stations, shutting down airports and schools and invading government house is reasonable? Peaceful protest OK. But PAD has gone way over the limit here. PAD and their supporters are but a small minority of voters in Thailand yet they seek to impose their political will on all others. Now thats what I call Fascism.

[animatic]

Thai riot police prepare before clashing with the supporters of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) inside the Government House in Bangkok August 29, 2008.

REUTERS

The PR value of the picture of the policeman pointing a rifle at a protestor at point blank range is very high

The rifle is there in the picture in the first place and I highly doubt the safety is on. There's no defending it by any stretch of the imagination.

another...

They had barrels pointing in all directions...

The second Image Has Been Manipulated.If you look Carefully The angles of Eyesight are of 2 different Trajectories.Crowd/Police Suggesting that Photoshop has been used (or simular) To cut and join a foreground and background clip together.

The "Weapons" seen Here are Tear Gas Rifles and if fired at point 0 at a living being could prove fatal.That said One is usually trained to NEVER "Pump" a Teargas round into the chamber unless one is commited to Firing it right away.(Swedish and UK Police have helped arm and train the Police in Bangkok and nationally.Also Immigrations Police for bomb and drug detection at Airports)

Sondhi owns/presides over (manager.com)These days Digital technology makes it very difficult to rely upon the validity of a photograph.Video is still OK and Eyewitnesses are best.

I have 40+ years as a photographer and 15 using photoshop.

This doesn't look doctored. Just the natural angles of a chaotic situation.

[cmsally]

The only statements I have heard from Thammasat and Chula students are the same as the one on TV. "Bua Mob!"

This is pretty contradictory to the beginning of the year and before that when many of them would be supportive.

PAD have pretty much lost credibility in a lot of people's eyes.

[Tony Clifton]

PM to be granted an audience with HM the King at 5pm Saturday

5:15pm Saturday

ASTV just announced Samak said he is not resigning.

A woman who sometimes appears on stage, we call her The Chemo Lady (treated for cancer), has reappeared. She looked awful tired a few weeks ago hairless and could hardly raise her now cartoonish voice. Glad to see she is still hanging on strong and fighting for her brothers and sisters as well as for her own life. x<----Tony Jr tapped the keyboard and gives her a single kiss

Edited August 30, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[ando]

PAD don't really have a leg to stand on because what do think is going to happen if they dissolve parliament and call another election?

They will lose again that is what will happen.

No, they won't. 65% of Thais voted for anti Thaksin parties in the last election. The PPP only got a bit over 35% of the vote, the only reason they won more seats (yet still under 50% of them) was because the anti Thaksin vote was split among several parties. People won't be as stupid this time around, they will vote for a single party instead of splitting their votes among many.

I hate to disappoint you. But Thaksin wasn't running in the last election.

This projected obsession with Thaksin is masking a much more sinister agenda by the elite class.

I hate to disappoint you but there is ample mention in news articles of his meetings with cabinet members and zombies flying to China, Hong Kong and the U.K over a period of two years, some even tried saying it was by chance they ran into each other abroad. He is still and wants to remain the Little Emperor until he gets his frozen funds back.

You are entitled to your conspiracy theories like anyone else.

The trouble is that while people like you are fixated on Thaksin, the bigger picture passes you by.

As stated before, this battle is not so much about Thaksin or Samak but more about a struggle between democracy and the old feudal system.

[sriracha john]

Kent State University was a pivotal site in the history of American protest. My father, who was an alumnae was saddened by students who, even when he revisited in the 1990's, were unaware of the significance of its role. Times change... students change... history changes... and nowadays we have busloads of university students arriving at critical points in the week and whose arrival were no doubt inspirational to those already in attendance. It speaks of its relevance to PAD as yet another faction of society being represented. The whole arena of academia is very well represented in PAD.

Kent State was indeed a blot on US history. But to be honest, I don't know a whole lot about it either - it was too long ago and no one made much of an effort to keep this event alive in the memories of the younger generation.

It certainly is no "blot" (a term which actually besmirches those that died, btw). Kent State in the 60's, Thammasat in the 70's... not all that different in terms of being "too long ago". I'd encourage you to know more about it.

What's missing, as it to be expected in a brief article, are specifically who the "statement" came from and how much of the student body do they represent. The terrific thing that justifies Thomassat's reputation is the diversity of thought and variances of opinion.

For all we know, the statement was from a group that is not representative of a majority or prevalent opinion of the students or the faculty.

Good point, I can agree with that. But I will also further add that Thammasat's presence at a rally is traditionally very visible - and if they are at the PAD rally, they sure as heck haven't been seen.

Nothing is permanent. Thammasat is no exception. When was the last time their students were at the forefront of a cause? Their history is beyond reproach and can certainly serve as a vanguard... so much so that it can also be the goal of other students, who in 2008, are simply represented by other universities, who are involved in PAD. Thamassat does not have a monopoly on protesting, what it does have is a history.

Edited August 30, 2008 by sriracha john

[unomi]

I totally agree. I am a professional user of Photoshop, and these pictures are so obviously manipulated - they haven't even bothered to resize the pixels of the gun properly in the second photograph, you can see the jagged edges of the larger pixels overlapping the background

I call BS. What 'jagged edges' are you referring to? I hope you don't mean the JPEG compression artifacts? The ones that are on top of the police officer to the left's arm? 

On the riot shield of the police officer to the left there appears to be a yellow reflection, perhaps from one of the demonstrators shirts. 

[fidelio]

The difference being that in France the army is under the control of the president and answers to no one else.

I'm not sure this is different - the Thai army ultimately answers to the Thai head of state (which is the King, not the Prime Minister).

As does the British Army.

Let me ask you 2 questions : who decided to send british troops to Irak : Blair or the Queen ?

If the Queen had been against it, could she/would she have been able to stop him ?

Now you should see the big deiiference

[onethailand]

It certainly is no "blot" (a term which actually besmirches those that died, btw). Kent State in the 60's, Thammasat in the 70's... not all that different in terms of being "too long ago". I'd encourage you to know more about it.

I should clarify - it is not a blot on Kent State. It is a blot on history that the Ohio National Guard could open fire on a peaceful demonstration.

BTW - like you, I thought 60's - in fact it was 1970.

[blaze]

Samak can be the hero and preserve democracy. He MUST resign. It's just that simple. If he remains stubborn, democracy in Thailand is finished.

On the contrary Gary, I believe that if Samak folds and resigns now, it will be the end of (the emerging) democracy in Thailand for a very long time.

My reasoning is that despite the arguements re vote buying, Samak and the PPP were elected to govern in a democratic system all be it with the help of coalition partners. And bear in mind that election was run under hostile conditions for Samak with the military in power and controlling the media.

Should the PAD which is not even a political party be able to force an elected government out of office with a crowd of protesters that amount to only a fraction of one percent of total voters it could well represent the death of the democratic process in Thailand.

Love him or hate him. Samak was democratically elected and should not be pushed out by a tiny minority group of protesters if democracy is to survive.

you shouldn't dipite the arguments of vote buying. As with vote buying he was NOT DEMOCRATICALLY elected.

Thailand is not an emerging democracy, it is one which is going down the last years and PAD are the people who want to reinstall democracy. It is as the name tells an Alliance for Democracy. With different people with different ideas but the common target to bring back democracy.

Well I do dispute the arguement of vote buying. Even though it is a common theme among those who need to use something to rationalize their assertions that the government is illigitimate. The international team that monitored the elections did not find vote buying on nearly the scale some on this web think it occurred. And it certainly wasn't confined to the PPP.

You say 'reinstall' democracy- yet the acknowledged apex of vote buying occurred under Banharn- is that the democracy you wish to see 'resestablished?'

I am not sure, but I think it was SJ who again and again explained the 37 person international team which came a week before and monitored nothing....

Everyone in Thailand knows the scale. That makes the government elected , but NOT democratic elected. It turns the complete election to a joke.

After the invasion on Iraq which was permitted by the Americans on the basis that 'everyone knows' the Saddam had WMD- I'm a bit skeptical of 'folk knowledge'. But let me ask you this: who do you think would win an election in the north east if there was NO vote buying at all? I gather it would NOT be TRT/PPP. Who would they vote for- and why?

Well in Iraq it was common knowledge that there are none. All Europe told it day and night, Blix (who was in duty for checking it, told that there are none). Everyone outside US knew it, just in USA the media repeated Bushs lies day and night (similar to how PPP controls the media in Thailand).

Precisely. A rumor repeated often enough becomes a 'given' in the minds of many. And that's why it is received wisdom now that pretty much NOBODY would have voted PPP had they not been paid to do so. And whether myth or truth- it serves a very specific purpose- as did the 'received wisdom' about WMD in the states.

[ando]

The difference being that in France the army is under the control of the president and answers to no one else.

I'm not sure this is different - the Thai army ultimately answers to the Thai head of state (which is the King, not the Prime Minister).

As does the British Army.

Let me ask you 2 questions : who decided to send british troops to Irak : Blair or the Queen ?

If the Queen had been against it, could she/would she have been able to stop him ?

Now you should see the big deiiference

No idea what the outcome would have been if Tony B. Liar and old Lizzie had disagreed about grabbing Iraq's oil. I guess they both figured it was a bit of a goldmine to throw their lot in with GWB at the time. Ultimately though, the old girl would technically have the final say if push came to shove.

[ray23]

Sorry guys nothing to offer just want to follow the thread in case the debates stop and some news come. Sorry for the intrusion please continue

[sriracha john]

Thai riot police prepare before clashing with the supporters of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) inside the Government House in Bangkok August 29, 2008.

REUTERS

The PR value of the picture of the policeman pointing a rifle at a protestor at point blank range is very high

The rifle is there in the picture in the first place and I highly doubt the safety is on. There's no defending it by any stretch of the imagination.

another...

They had barrels pointing in all directions...

The second Image Has Been Manipulated.If you look Carefully The angles of Eyesight are of 2 different Trajectories.Crowd/Police Suggesting that Photoshop has been used (or simular) To cut and join a foreground and background clip together.

The "Weapons" seen Here are Tear Gas Rifles and if fired at point 0 at a living being could prove fatal.That said One is usually trained to NEVER "Pump" a Teargas round into the chamber unless one is commited to Firing it right away.(Swedish and UK Police have helped arm and train the Police in Bangkok and nationally.Also Immigrations Police for bomb and drug detection at Airports)

Sondhi owns/presides over (manager.com)These days Digital technology makes it very difficult to rely upon the validity of a photograph.Video is still OK and Eyewitnesses are best.

I totally agree. I am a professional user of Photoshop, and these pictures are sola obviously manipulated - they haven't even bothered to resize the pixels of the gun properly in the second photograph, you can see the jagged edges of the larger pixels overlapping the background, and the following two, the guns are in sharp relief, ie 'selected' and pasted into another image. If it is one of Sondhi's graphic designers, I would have thought he might have considered the damage to his credibility in circulating these crude images when they're accusing the PPP aka Taksin of so many 'dirty tricks'.

tin foil hat time again....

Did Sondhi also manipulate Rueters?