Cows Cutting The Grass?

[himachal]

We've got 20 rai of fruit trees, including a lot of 1- and 2-year old trees (durian, mayongchit, and timber trees) which we've just planted. We spend about 12,000 baht a year on fuel and labour to cut the grass, so we're wondering if there's a cheaper - and quieter and less polluting way to keep the grass short. Namely, grazing.

We figure that owning cattle would bring its own costs (vet's bills, cowherd, shed, etc.) and so it occurred to us that a local with cows might be interested in bringing their cows (not too many) over to graze a few times a year - and leave their fertiliser behind!

If anyone has answers to the following questions, they'd be greatly appreciated.

1. How long would it take say half a dozen cows to 'trim' 20 rai of grass? (assuming the grass is about knee-high).

2. Would they also eat the leaves off the young trees?

I expect answers would depend on the type of cattle.

3. Does anyone have a grazing rights arrangement such as I descibed above? Would love to hear how/if it's working out for you.

Thanks.

Himachal

[slapout]

To answer as best I can on your questions

1. the cattle will stomp more down than they eat if its knee high. Grass when it gets too high gets tough, 6 to 8 inch tall and the cattle eat it and get good value. 6 cows on 20 rai during wet season probably wont keep up with growth of grass, dry season about 1 month???

2. yes they will eat the small tree leaves and probably the tree itself or pull it out while snacking on it

[basilic13]

and what about with sheeps or goats? I heards it s also popular with these types...

[LeungKen]

I'm not sure how you arrived at your 12,000 Bt a year, by my reckoning 1 man x 1 day a month on a ride-on mower should be a lot less than that.

Forget goats, they eat everything.

[fruity]

Very easy, just put the word around you want the grass cut & the locals will cut it & take it away for their cows / buffalos to eat. Grass is a saleable commodity, especially now when free grazing land is ocupied with rice growing.

Forget cows running around in your orchard , would be a disaster, goats even worse.

[Loom]

Very easy, just put the word around you want the grass cut & the locals will cut it & take it away for their cows / buffalos to eat. Grass is a saleable commodity, especially now when free grazing land is ocupied with rice growing.

Forget cows running around in your orchard , would be a disaster, goats even worse.

My Thai family is doing this now. They come in and cut for an hour or so, load up the truck and are gone. Do miss the recycling of organic material in the soil this way but otherwise it would be pretty tough to keep on top of things in the rainy season (one strimmer and 18rai).

[ozzydom]

Very easy, just put the word around you want the grass cut & the locals will cut it & take it away for their cows / buffalos to eat. Grass is a saleable commodity, especially now when free grazing land is ocupied with rice growing.

Forget cows running around in your orchard , would be a disaster, goats even worse.

fruity has the right idea, this is what we do around our ponds.

just make sure they understand that to get the grass ,they have to cut the good and the bad.

It took 3 goes to get one to do it properly,the first two were only cutting the Guinea grass and the Ruzzi that we have as erosion barriers and leaving the wild grasses for me to do.

Of course having the grass growing and depleting the available nutrients is not really a good idea in the first place.

Why not disc up the row centres as required and spray the remainder with herbicide.

[joeuk1]

Very easy, just put the word around you want the grass cut & the locals will cut it & take it away for their cows / buffalos to eat. Grass is a saleable commodity, especially now when free grazing land is ocupied with rice growing.

Forget cows running around in your orchard , would be a disaster, goats even worse.

fruity has the right idea, this is what we do around our ponds.

just make sure they understand that to get the grass ,they have to cut the good and the bad.

It took 3 goes to get one to do it properly,the first two were only cutting the Guinea grass and the Ruzzi that we have as erosion barriers and leaving the wild grasses for me to do.

Of course having the grass growing and depleting the available nutrients is not really a good idea in the first place.

Why not disc up the row centres as required and spray the remainder with herbicide.

We have planted a lot of grass around our ponds this is used once cut for the cows to eat , when we are out of grass for the cows we buy in from other locals for feed . At times its hard to find there are local people that use land just for growing grass to sell for feed .

JB

[himachal]

Thanks all for your ideas.

Unfortunately, where we live there's oodles of grass and very few cows so I don't think it's saleable.

I knew goats are out of the question as they eat everything.

Anyone ever tried horses?

H

[Khonwan]

Having had a fair bit of experience of cattle, and some with buffalo, goats and sheep on my farm, I’d suggest sheep. But no animal is going to eat all grasses/weeds when grazing pasture – they’ll always eat the best forage available to them, which means you’ll need to apply herbicide on the grasses/weeds they don’t eat. Goats & bovines will certainly destroy your young trees.

Rgds

Khonwan

[mgjackson69]

Thanks all for your ideas.

Unfortunately, where we live there's oodles of grass and very few cows so I don't think it's saleable.

I knew goats are out of the question as they eat everything.

Anyone ever tried horses?

H

Horses will strip the bark from the trees...they love to chew on wood for some reason

[Maizefarmer]

...... and unless the grass is well established (and managed), cows will ultimately strip it out from the roots.

[Maizefarmer]

...... and unless the grass is well established (and managed), cows will ultimately strip it out from the roots.

Could have answered a bit better .... sorry, under the cosh busy at the moment............

20 rai of fruit tree will convert to around 5 - 8rai of grass (guesstimate based on tree coverage of the ground which will limit grass growth underneath quite a lot).

On well maintained and intensively managed forage/pasture you can support approx 2 cows per rai year round - but that is managed pasture which would have to include "cut 'n carry" technique as well as irrigation . Without "cut 'n carry" and irrigation, cattle will damage the grass (trample, pull it out) and over about 6 months my guess is that whatever pasture was there will have been greatly reduced.

As a method of keeping grass and other fauna growth down in the orchids, yes cattle, sheep, goats will do, but if the plan is to try and manage the orchid as both a fruit orchid as well as a pasture with grass such as Ruzzi or Guinea - nope, - sorry I can't see you getting the density per square meter of ground to support much more than around 1 cow per 3 or 4rai of orchid area.

[Khonwan]

...... and unless the grass is well established (and managed), cows will ultimately strip it out from the roots.

Could have answered a bit better .... sorry, under the cosh busy at the moment............

20 rai of fruit tree will convert to around 5 - 8rai of grass (guesstimate based on tree coverage of the ground which will limit grass growth underneath quite a lot).

On well maintained and intensively managed forage/pasture you can support approx 2 cows per rai year round - but that is managed pasture which would have to include "cut 'n carry" technique as well as irrigation . Without "cut 'n carry" and irrigation, cattle will damage the grass (trample, pull it out) and over about 6 months my guess is that whatever pasture was there will have been greatly reduced.

As a method of keeping grass and other fauna growth down in the orchids, yes cattle, sheep, goats will do, but if the plan is to try and manage the orchid as both a fruit orchid as well as a pasture with grass such as Ruzzi or Guinea - nope, - sorry I can't see you getting the density per square meter of ground to support much more than around 1 cow per 3 or 4rai of orchid area.

The OP is not seeking to support cows. Furthermore, cattle will certainly damage young trees. They won't so much eat the leaves (as long as there is good grass to eat), but they will rub themselves up against the trees, very much to the detriment of those trees.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Maizefarmer]

...... and unless the grass is well established (and managed), cows will ultimately strip it out from the roots.

Could have answered a bit better .... sorry, under the cosh busy at the moment............

20 rai of fruit tree will convert to around 5 - 8rai of grass (guesstimate based on tree coverage of the ground which will limit grass growth underneath quite a lot).

On well maintained and intensively managed forage/pasture you can support approx 2 cows per rai year round - but that is managed pasture which would have to include "cut 'n carry" technique as well as irrigation . Without "cut 'n carry" and irrigation, cattle will damage the grass (trample, pull it out) and over about 6 months my guess is that whatever pasture was there will have been greatly reduced.

As a method of keeping grass and other fauna growth down in the orchids, yes cattle, sheep, goats will do, but if the plan is to try and manage the orchid as both a fruit orchid as well as a pasture with grass such as Ruzzi or Guinea - nope, - sorry I can't see you getting the density per square meter of ground to support much more than around 1 cow per 3 or 4rai of orchid area.

The OP is not seeking to support cows. Furthermore, cattle will certainly damage young trees. They won't so much eat the leaves (as long as there is good grass to eat), but they will rub themselves up against the trees, very much to the detriment of those trees.

Rgds

Khonwan

Who said he was (?) - I answered part of the OP's question and used an oppurtunity to some additonal detail - problem with that? - (preferable to nit picking - yawwwwn).

[shawndoc]

I'm going to jump in. I can't speak from experience in Thailand, but in the USA. I suggest sheep. Cows/Horses are big heavy animals, and will quickly tear up the ground. This will be especially true during the rainy season, and not only will it make it hard for you to get around your fields, there is a good chance the hooves will damage the roots of the trees.

I don't suggest goats as they are escape artists that are very difficult to contain, fantastic at getting at edibles you don't want them to eat, and will eat anything.

Sheep on the other hand tend to be pretty easy to pen in, and you get the benefit of harvest wool as well as meat.

[jubby]

I've been using Cows to keep the grass down for a couple of years now.

We have Lamyai, Mango, Lots of teak Trees.

The lamyai are fine as long as the trees Bigger than the Cow ;-) , they like to eat the young leaves and the fruit if they can reach it.

Same again for mango.

some of the teak is very young, infact I've planted some this year. Some of it gets trampled but it soon shoots up again. The growth will probably be stunted for a couple of years but the roots are developing so I think they will catch up no probs.

I did plant some Eucalyptus which was quickly eaten by the Cows.

I think it depends how serious you are about your fruit trees and wether they are making money.

You will still have to cut what the cows don't eat probably once a year, mainly brush.

Make sure that they can't get out, you'll be suprised how sneaky some of them can be. One of mine gets through the barbed wire frequently. She's now tethered. If they do get out and damage crops it'll cost you , depending how honest your neighbours are.

It works for me.

As for Sheep , I don't have any experience but would have thought the Climate wasn't really suitable.

[Lancashirelad]

i'm sure i mentioned this one word reply in a similar thread recently: geese

not only do they eat grass, leave manure, but are also an excellent guard dog.

[slapout]

Lan; not being a smart a.. but how many geese would you run on 20 rai of orchard? My great uncle kept geese, I could'nt count them but he said there were about 200. He was a excentric old fellow and the geese had run of his house, etc. He swore they ate bugs out of garden, better than watch and alarm dogs, protected his place (some were mean) and guess since they had run of his house they must have been good companions. Only threat seemed to be coyotes but dont think that would apply in Thailand. I remember he fed cracked corn and did use a old chicken house for shelter at night. Just remembering my younger days but you might have hit on a good solution. Doubt if they would stray too far if water and a tastey treat was provided on a regular basis.

[himachal]

Thanks again, everyone, for your info and suggestions.

Seems cows and horses are both out, as we'd be saying goodbye to the 400 trees we just planted.

Geese, though good snake deterents apparently, would most likely go for a dip in the klong and get swept away (it's grade 5 rapids right now!).

Seems like we'll probably go with sheep, as Khonwan suggests. They should make a nice job of the front lawn, too.

Cheers, H