Do Foreign Tax Departments Check ?

[tacc222]

Do foreign tax departments check if their citizens have a Thai bank account ? Or is this only being done (and also only possible) as part of a criminal investigation ?

[Mattchu9999]

Being on of the TV members whom has yet to step foot on LOS soil, this question is more of legalities.

Is a Thailand bank subject to the laws of another country?

If there is some sort of a treaty between the information requesting country and the Thai bank I would suspect cooperation only for investigating criminal matters.

The problem is like with my country (USA) I wouldn't put it above any govt. agency to shim sham their wording to try and get cooperation from the Thai bank.

If you trying to evade some sort of scrutiny, I would open an account in one of the Caribbean jurisdictions that specializes in protecting account holders from the scrutiny of their respective government.

It aslo depends on how big a fish you are. If you siphoning hundreds of thousands away...you may be safe... but hundreds of millions and your on the radar....

But a hundred million dollars isn't money...money is what you go to the store and buy groceries with. No, a hundred million dollars is a motive with a universal adapter.

Just my .2 satang

[Soutpeel]

Do foreign tax departments check if their citizens have a Thai bank account ? Or is this only being done (and also only possible) as part of a criminal investigation ?

If we are talking vast amounts of money, think they could, but for a normal working person fiddling his tax, highly unlikely

[Mattchu9999]

Do foreign tax departments check if their citizens have a Thai bank account ? Or is this only being done (and also only possible) as part of a criminal investigation ?

If we are talking vast amounts of money, think they could, but for a normal working person fiddling his tax, highly unlikely

Right but....

In some countries fiddling with ones tax liability can be criminal and not just civil. If it can be deemed criminal such as in America the "willful failure to file" charge can get you jail time and is criminal....and that gives the revenue authorities all sorts of access to accounts one may have in ! cooperating ! foreign jurisdictions.

So if your dead set on it, I would find a jurisdiction that does not cooperate with your home countries authorities and set up a trust named something that has nothing to do with you and open an account using that trust. But remember, any deposits can not be paper trailed, so deposits will have to be in cash as everything else can be traced...even cashiers checks and bank drafts. All they need to show is your money going into that accout to assume you are doing something nefarious and then they dont need that jurisdictions help as they merely just show the perponderance of the evidence.

Sometimes the best way to hide something is right out in the open.

[dave111223]

Not to hi-jack this thread, but my question is somewhat related, and your question reminds me of my question.

Do foreign governments (such as the US) audit expats in Thailand? For example could i get a letter in the mail saying "Come into our audit office in Texas, bring your receipts"?

I've searched the issue many times online and found practically nothing on the issue, as far i can tell the IRS doesn't have any kind of offices here. The closest US Revenue related office seems to be in Manila and that seems to just handle pension stuff.

So what happens in the case the US decides to audit a citizen living in Thailand?

[Mattchu9999]

Not to hi-jack this thread, but my question is somewhat related, and your question reminds me of my question.

Do foreign governments (such as the US) audit expats in Thailand? For example could i get a letter in the mail saying "Come into our audit office in Texas, bring your receipts"?

I've searched the issue many times online and found practically nothing on the issue, as far i can tell the IRS doesn't have any kind of offices here. The closest US Revenue related office seems to be in Manila and that seems to just handle pension stuff.

So what happens in the case the US decides to audit a citizen living in Thailand?

With the IRS anything is possible.

If you file US Tax returns the IRS can at any point decide to audit you. The specifics of weather or not they will be accommodating to your particular location on the globe are up to the investigator and the seriousness of your case.

The problem with being an American citizen is the IRS subjects you to taxation on your income on a global scale. But where there is a stopgap is if income earned outside of the US is placed in a bank accout outside of the US, the IRS has to guess and or begin the diplomatic process of trying to find out where you bank overseas...all the while trying to prove something criminal so they have more weight with their claim....which again brings us to the big fish little fish issue.

[Naam]

The problem with being an American citizen is the IRS subjects you to taxation on your income on a global scale. But where there is a stopgap is if income earned outside of the US is placed in a bank accout outside of the US, the IRS has to guess and or begin the diplomatic process of trying to find out where you bank overseas...all the while trying to prove something criminal so they have more weight with their claim....which again brings us to the big fish little fish issue.

= science fiction

[pluto_manibo]

I do believe US citizens are exempt from global taxation for any amount under $80,000....

[old wanderer]

I do believe US citizens are exempt from global taxation for any amount under $80,000....

Please do not make that mistake......Yes there is a ~$82,000 exemption available, BUT it is only available when you file your taxes....You must file and claim the exemption to get it.

I know of several people on this board that got snared big time assuming they did not have to file until past the threshold...WRONG....

2nd thing...THE US Treasury Department requires a citizen to file a decleration every June 30th of each foreign bank account they have if the aggregate of all accounts is in excess of $10,000. This is not the IRS.

[joncl]

Do foreign tax departments check if their citizens have a Thai bank account ?

I would start by checking if your country of origin has a 'tax treaty or dual-taxation treaty' with Thailand, and finding out what this means to you. In most cases if they do, yes they can in conjunction with the IRD here in Thailand.

[dave111223]

With the IRS anything is possible.

If you file US Tax returns the IRS can at any point decide to audit you. The specifics of weather or not they will be accommodating to your particular location on the globe are up to the investigator and the seriousness of your case.

But how would the logistics of it work. Would they come to you, or would you have to go to them, and if you have to go to them who fits the bill for plane tickets, accommodations etc.. Surely they can't force you buy a plane ticket and put yourself up in a hotel can they? What if you cannot even afford the plane ticket etc...

I'd be interested if anyone has been audited by the US while living in Thailand?

[lanny]

Several points:

1. The nearest IRS office, and the one with jurisdiction over US expats living in Thailand, is in Singapore. I am not sure just what they do, but they do not do audits.

2. The tax treaty with Thailand has a provision for the Revenue Department to share information on individual taxpayers with the IRS. I have not seen any evidence of a regular program for such sharing.

3. IRS has no jurisdiction over banks, etc. in any country outside the US. To access records in a Thai bank, IRS would have to go to the Thai courts. They do not have the manpower to do this, other than for a very large amount of money that they already know about.

4. In the last 7 years of working with US taxpayers, I have not seen a single return selected for audit. Letters from IRS about differences between reports (on 1099s, for example) and tax returns, yes; requests to produce more, no.

5. The annual report of bank balances does not go to IRS, but they have access to the information.

[Naam]

I do believe US citizens are exempt from global taxation for any amount under $80,000....

Please do not make that mistake......Yes there is a ~$82,000 exemption available, BUT it is only available when you file your taxes....You must file and claim the exemption to get it.

most important is that the tax free $82k have to must be derived from employment, not from own capital!

[Mattchu9999]

With the IRS anything is possible.

If you file US Tax returns the IRS can at any point decide to audit you. The specifics of weather or not they will be accommodating to your particular location on the globe are up to the investigator and the seriousness of your case.

But how would the logistics of it work. Would they come to you, or would you have to go to them, and if you have to go to them who fits the bill for plane tickets, accommodations etc.. Surely they can't force you buy a plane ticket and put yourself up in a hotel can they? What if you cannot even afford the plane ticket etc...

I'd be interested if anyone has been audited by the US while living in Thailand?

Im not being facetious here with my comment, but if the IRS decides to Audit you, they have no compassion for your current global position. Basically and this is yet another abuse of citizens by a govt. entity, you for all practical purposes have to prove your innocence, as the burden of proof is on you.

Its in your best interest to coorporate with them if you want to remain in their good graces.

BUT if your income is controlled by you soley...like owning a foreign business etc.. and you dont care about tax leins or ever increasing fines limits...that by all means prove to yourself that the IRS IS a paper tiger.

And yet again.....it boils down to how big a fish you are.

Andon that note, heres a real big fish...enjoy

[Losangels]

With the IRS anything is possible.

If you file US Tax returns the IRS can at any point decide to audit you. The specifics of weather or not they will be accommodating to your particular location on the globe are up to the investigator and the seriousness of your case.

But how would the logistics of it work. Would they come to you, or would you have to go to them, and if you have to go to them who fits the bill for plane tickets, accommodations etc.. Surely they can't force you buy a plane ticket and put yourself up in a hotel can they? What if you cannot even afford the plane ticket etc...

I'd be interested if anyone has been audited by the US while living in Thailand?

Im not being facetious here with my comment, but if the IRS decides to Audit you, they have no compassion for your current global position. Basically and this is yet another abuse of citizens by a govt. entity, you for all practical purposes have to prove your innocence, as the burden of proof is on you.

Its in your best interest to coorporate with them if you want to remain in their good graces.

BUT if your income is controlled by you soley...like owning a foreign business etc.. and you dont care about tax leins or ever increasing fines limits...that by all means prove to yourself that the IRS IS a paper tiger.

And yet again.....it boils down to how big a fish you are.

Andon that note, heres a real big fish...enjoy

Whoa is that what they found in Thaksin's safe deposit box?

[lanny]

I can't cite the regulations or the code, but the IRS is limited in how much they can force you to do. If they want to examine your return, they can request you to come to them BUT they must name a time and place that are not inconvenient for you. So, if you live in LA, they cannot ask you to appear in Chicago, for example. If you live in Palmdale, they can ask you to come to LA, but not San Francisco.

So, if you live in Thailand, they could ask you to come to Bangkok but probably not to Singapore. More likely, they will write to you and ask you to send copies of documents supporting specific entries on your return.

[highdiver]

alot of very mixed answers hers some true and some not.

for those of you who have an American citizenship.. under US law you need to pay taxes and social security even if you reside and work abroad.

there are exemptions and waivers you can use.

for more information read below.

http://www.taxmeless.com/page4.html

the IRS does have close relations with the thai tax department and they do follow up on US citizens.

however... I don't believe they go as far as racing into your bank account as this will violate Thailand's banking privacy laws.

[unforgiven]

Do foreign tax departments check if their citizens have a Thai bank account ? Or is this only being done (and also only possible) as part of a criminal investigation ?

If we are talking vast amounts of money, think they could, but for a normal working person fiddling his tax, highly unlikely

I don't know about the bank but I've had to sign forms declaring where I got my money from for my stock porfolio.

[unforgiven]

With the IRS anything is possible.

If you file US Tax returns the IRS can at any point decide to audit you. The specifics of weather or not they will be accommodating to your particular location on the globe are up to the investigator and the seriousness of your case.

But how would the logistics of it work. Would they come to you, or would you have to go to them, and if you have to go to them who fits the bill for plane tickets, accommodations etc.. Surely they can't force you buy a plane ticket and put yourself up in a hotel can they? What if you cannot even afford the plane ticket etc...

I'd be interested if anyone has been audited by the US while living in Thailand?

Im not being facetious here with my comment, but if the IRS decides to Audit you, they have no compassion for your current global position. Basically and this is yet another abuse of citizens by a govt. entity, you for all practical purposes have to prove your innocence, as the burden of proof is on you.

Its in your best interest to coorporate with them if you want to remain in their good graces.

BUT if your income is controlled by you soley...like owning a foreign business etc.. and you dont care about tax leins or ever increasing fines limits...that by all means prove to yourself that the IRS IS a paper tiger.

And yet again.....it boils down to how big a fish you are.

Andon that note, heres a real big fish...enjoy

Whoa is that what they found in Thaksin's safe deposit box?

The rule is if you have big$ spread it out over many accounts!

[gk10002000]

I do believe US citizens are exempt from global taxation for any amount under $80,000....

Please do not make that mistake......Yes there is a ~$82,000 exemption available, BUT it is only available when you file your taxes....You must file and claim the exemption to get it.

I know of several people on this board that got snared big time assuming they did not have to file until past the threshold...WRONG....

2nd thing...THE US Treasury Department requires a citizen to file a decleration every June 30th of each foreign bank account they have if the aggregate of all accounts is in excess of $10,000. This is not the IRS.

NO NO NO NO NO! That exemption is allowed under very specific circumstances. You must be outside of the USA for 330 days or 11 contiguous months in the same Tax Year. Check the IRS pub for the exact times. I personally know people that worked overseas and finished in September, then hung out in Pattaya and the Phillipines for the next four months before they set foot in the USA. Once you break the timelines, you are taxed on EVERYTHING earned overseas. It is not pro-rated.

[tacc222]

alot of very mixed answers hers some true and some not.

for those of you who have an American citizenship.. under US law you need to pay taxes and social security even if you reside and work abroad.

there are exemptions and waivers you can use.

for more information read below.

http://www.taxmeless.com/page4.html

the IRS does have close relations with the thai tax department and they do follow up on US citizens.

however... I don't believe they go as far as racing into your bank account as this will violate Thailand's banking privacy laws.

In which way does the IRS follow up on US citizens ?

[Naam]

The rule is if you have big$ spread it out over many accounts!

the rule is somebody who has big money does not ask the question "do foreign tax departments check?"

[kapasao]

With the IRS anything is possible.

If you file US Tax returns the IRS can at any point decide to audit you. The specifics of weather or not they will be accommodating to your particular location on the globe are up to the investigator and the seriousness of your case.

But how would the logistics of it work. Would they come to you, or would you have to go to them, and if you have to go to them who fits the bill for plane tickets, accommodations etc.. Surely they can't force you buy a plane ticket and put yourself up in a hotel can they? What if you cannot even afford the plane ticket etc...

I'd be interested if anyone has been audited by the US while living in Thailand?

Im not being facetious here with my comment, but if the IRS decides to Audit you, they have no compassion for your current global position. Basically and this is yet another abuse of citizens by a govt. entity, you for all practical purposes have to prove your innocence, as the burden of proof is on you.

Its in your best interest to coorporate with them if you want to remain in their good graces.

BUT if your income is controlled by you soley...like owning a foreign business etc.. and you dont care about tax leins or ever increasing fines limits...that by all means prove to yourself that the IRS IS a paper tiger.

And yet again.....it boils down to how big a fish you are.

Andon that note, heres a real big fish...enjoy

[PeaceBlondie]

I agree with what lanny has said, above. In my 22 years with the IRS as a tax auditor-revenue agent-manager-etc., I never heard of any taxpayer having to travel more than 100 miles for an audit. I had an employee who was formerly stationed in Central America doing audits, and I got the impression they are way understaffed to be auditing expatriates. We did some correspondence audits to follow up on filed 1099 forms, but little more.

But if they want to audit Jim Rogers, they might fly to China. I knew a revenue agent who flew to Australia for an audit of the world's largest ranching company.

[Wrong Turn]

I agree with what lanny has said, above. In my 22 years with the IRS as a tax auditor-revenue agent-manager-etc., I never heard of any taxpayer having to travel more than 100 miles for an audit. I had an employee who was formerly stationed in Central America doing audits, and I got the impression they are way understaffed to be auditing expatriates. We did some correspondence audits to follow up on filed 1099 forms, but little more.

But if they want to audit Jim Rogers, they might fly to China. I knew a revenue agent who flew to Australia for an audit of the world's largest ranching company.

It would be worth the money involved.

I think as "normal" expats, retirees, and teachers, we won't be audited. At least I've never known anyone to have been audited.

[Firefan]

Very important point by Naam! The OP was asking about bank account- meaning he/she has money (which could lead to interest/other stock& bond investments Etc.) the scary part about the US tax system to most planning to live abroad is that they have to pay US tax on all their (global) investment returns! As far as I (and Naam) understands the $80k deduction does NOT cover capital gains/interest Etc.

Naam mentions "own capital". I am not sure how ones OWN company would fit in that equation? Since most companies are 51% Thai "owned" here (leaving out the extra options that US nationals have for setting up a company) that might help with that?

The $80k deduction also had a sub clause about whether the employer is a US company or a foreign company but I do not recall the details.

Cheers!

I do believe US citizens are exempt from global taxation for any amount under $80,000....

Please do not make that mistake......Yes there is a ~$82,000 exemption available, BUT it is only available when you file your taxes....You must file and claim the exemption to get it.

most important is that the tax free $82k have to must be derived from employment, not from own capital!