World Markets Nosedive, Emergency Meeting Called By Thai Finance Minister

[dave_boo]

I am no Bushie ... but what about the leftie Muslim aspirant ?

Why do these discussions always attract imbecilic racists?

And what "race" is a Muslim?

Arabic?

African?

Indian?

Asian?

Oceanic?

Caucasian?

While the person you were responding to could be bigoted, it's not racist to talk about a religion.....

[scyriacus]

Please ignore the Pepsi versus Coke Party flim-flam of the US elections. .... The financial crisis is real, but its cause is the UNCONTROLLED working of capitalist economics, in particular, the deficit banking scam.....in bonded debt-slavery to a handfull of parasitic, aristocratic mafia banking families.

i couldn't say it better. in germany, uk, france all 'Pepsi versus Coke' democrazy. all plain water with lots of sugar and various colors. all useless and dangerous. in fact a party dictatorship (alternating to replace one evil with another). anyone ever thought why big business donates to all parties? because they don't care what color the president displays. nothing will ever change (or elections would be illegal). ever thought why the biggest scoundrels are pardoned? ever thought why the ceo is paid millions (golden parachute) even after bankruptcy? it's all part of that rotten system where birds of the same feather flock together. ever thought why the law is so complicated nowadays? that only the superrich can employ the superexpensive pettifoggers and cunning shysters to create the loopholes first thru 'lobbying' and tell the scoundrels later how to use them (see tax-sin). do you understand now, why some see no other way than 'terrorism' to defend themselves against these permanent attacks. you and i were never attacked by any 'terrorist' i guess and hope. only our government thru their hysteria, their propaganda and wars against each and everyone terrorize us everyday. and 9/11 too was not an attack against freedom and democracy (capitol & statue of liberty are their symbols) but a retaliation against the military industrial complex (pentagon & wtc were their symbols). we have to stop this madness..............

[scyriacus]

...side note: the "big mac" of the "Bic Mac Index" is an international food product, a value meal served in same shape and size in new york, london, prague, bucharest, tokyo, pyongyang, brasil, bogota, patpong an so on. the beauty of globalisation. the "big mac" of the "Bic Mac crisis" is a derogative term for the "american way of life" and meant to symbolise the obese, vain and greed. the ugliness of globalisation.

that you call the big mac a value meal gives some insight in your values. and thank you so much to enlighten the forum why pyongyang belongs to gwb's 'axis of evil' = they refuse to eat junk food and to be part of the so-called 'big-mac-crisis'.....

[thailand_tom]

here's what they need to do..first get the baht back to 45baht = 1 usd..33-34 =1usd not even worth visiting let alone living in thailand..i can fly and stay in costa rica cheaper and get over 500 to 1 for my dollar..cut the prices of condos,land and houses by 3/4..a 3rd world country..i have to laugh when i see some of these prices and since i lived in thailand..just shake my head and think..well you know what i'm thinking. thailand is very over priced and with housing prices here in the usa being cut in half don't even know if i would go back to thailand..will just buy here again can get a house cheap in florida close to ocean..beautiful there.

[scyriacus]

...The original post was about Thailand's repsonse...but now we're into the Uncle Sam stuff...that could go on and on and on..

you make me smile! thailand's response to what? not to the uncle sam stuff? what is your topic please? mine is why world markets 'nosedive' and why sam, george and ben don't ask the thai finance minister for emergency advice. give the forum your 'thaigenious' explanation for the mess we're in (without uncle sam!). would be interesting (or very funny indeed).......

[dave_boo]

Read Pearlstein's column in today's Washington Post. This was about preventing a depression. And all the horrible things a depression means which apparently not enough people have a grasp of. Bernacke, the fed chairman, is a leading scholar of the depression and he wanted the bailout. And the fringe groups of America's left and right which because of the current leadership vacuum in the US constitute a majority of the US congress couldn't get their act together to go along. This is not good. The blame game is ridiculous at this stage: the house is on fire!

BTW, as an American, I apologize for my government. They have failed the entire world.

Jingthing...Seems like a bit of a contradiction to me..

Subscribing to this line of thought leads me , to think, that if the U.S. is to be blamed for all the world's ills, maybe the U.S. should stop every dollar of Foreign aid, repeal Nafta and Gatt, so as not to contaminate the rest of the world. Greed is not just exclusive to the U.S.

LOL so misguided. AID is ONLY provided to countries where opportunity can be had. The US sink their teeth in by demanding the debt to be repaid at interest, in case of countries without the ability to repay with the dollar they cease land and resources and enslave the foreign aid receiving country just like the mafia. Don't be manipulated into thinking they supply aid from the bottom of their hearts.

Greed. The USA is about 4.5 percent of the world's population yet it consumes a vast percentage of the worlds resources i dont have the exact figure over 25 percent. Over half the people in the world survive on less than 2 dollars a day. 90 percent of the world wealth are in the hands of 1 percent of the the population. 50% of the worlds wealth is hoarded by the Jewish Zionist Rothschilds. No sh!t, greed is not exclusive to the US but they are vastly leading the way.

Off your meds?

Also, it's worth pointing out that the US is not exclusive in their insistence that aid is "free". The EU is quite good at doing the same thing in Africa, as are the OPEC countries in various other Muslim countries.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

To me this makes a lot of sense.

Commentary: Bankruptcy, not bailout, is the right answer

By Jeffrey A. Miron

Special to CNN

Editor's note: Jeffrey A. Miron is senior lecturer in economics at Harvard University. A Libertarian, he was one of 166 academic economists who signed a letter to congressional leaders last week opposing the government bailout plan.

CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Congress has balked at the Bush administration's proposed $700 billion bailout of Wall Street. Under this plan, the Treasury would have bought the "troubled assets" of financial institutions in an attempt to avoid economic meltdown.

This bailout was a terrible idea. Here's why.

The current mess would never have occurred in the absence of ill-conceived federal policies. The federal government chartered Fannie Mae in 1938 and Freddie Mac in 1970; these two mortgage lending institutions are at the center of the crisis. The government implicitly promised these institutions that it would make good on their debts, so Fannie and Freddie took on huge amounts of excessive risk.

Worse, beginning in 1977 and even more in the 1990s and the early part of this century, Congress pushed mortgage lenders and Fannie/Freddie to expand subprime lending. The industry was happy to oblige, given the implicit promise of federal backing, and subprime lending soared.

This subprime lending was more than a minor relaxation of existing credit guidelines. This lending was a wholesale abandonment of reasonable lending practices in which borrowers with poor credit characteristics got mortgages they were ill-equipped to handle.

Once housing prices declined and economic conditions worsened, defaults and delinquencies soared, leaving the industry holding large amounts of severely depreciated mortgage assets.

The fact that government bears such a huge responsibility for the current mess means any response should eliminate the conditions that created this situation in the first place, not attempt to fix bad government with more government.

The obvious alternative to a bailout is letting troubled financial institutions declare bankruptcy. Bankruptcy means that shareholders typically get wiped out and the creditors own the company.

Bankruptcy does not mean the company disappears; it is just owned by someone new (as has occurred with several airlines). Bankruptcy punishes those who took excessive risks while preserving those aspects of a businesses that remain profitable.

In contrast, a bailout transfers enormous wealth from taxpayers to those who knowingly engaged in risky subprime lending. Thus, the bailout encourages companies to take large, imprudent risks and count on getting bailed out by government. This "moral hazard" generates enormous distortions in an economy's allocation of its financial resources.

Thoughtful advocates of the bailout might concede this perspective, but they argue that a bailout is necessary to prevent economic collapse. According to this view, lenders are not making loans, even for worthy projects, because they cannot get capital. This view has a grain of truth; if the bailout does not occur, more bankruptcies are possible and credit conditions may worsen for a time.

Talk of Armageddon, however, is ridiculous scare-mongering. If financial institutions cannot make productive loans, a profit opportunity exists for someone else. This might not happen instantly, but it will happen.

Further, the current credit freeze is likely due to Wall Street's hope of a bailout; bankers will not sell their lousy assets for 20 cents on the dollar if the government might pay 30, 50, or 80 cents.

The costs of the bailout, moreover, are almost certainly being understated. The administration's claim is that many mortgage assets are merely illiquid, not truly worthless, implying taxpayers will recoup much of their $700 billion.

If these assets are worth something, however, private parties should want to buy them, and they would do so if the owners would accept fair market value. Far more likely is that current owners have brushed under the rug how little their assets are worth.

The bailout has more problems. The final legislation will probably include numerous side conditions and special dealings that reward Washington lobbyists and their clients.

Anticipation of the bailout will engender strategic behavior by Wall Street institutions as they shuffle their assets and position their balance sheets to maximize their take. The bailout will open the door to further federal meddling in financial markets.

So what should the government do? Eliminate those policies that generated the current mess. This means, at a general level, abandoning the goal of home ownership independent of ability to pay. This means, in particular, getting rid of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, along with policies like the Community Reinvestment Act that pressure banks into subprime lending.

The right view of the financial mess is that an enormous fraction of subprime lending should never have occurred in the first place. Someone has to pay for that. That someone should not be, and does not need to be, the U.S. taxpayer.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

For anyone interested in what the Bailout bill is, the following provides a copy with some comments. I admit I haven't read it yet, as it was just passed on to me. But it may answer or make you aware of some of the questions.

http://publicmarkup.org/bill/emergency-eco...ation-act-2008/

[endure]

Can we have less of the insults and personal abuse please. The News Clippings forum is for serious debate, not schoolyard scrapping.

[ding]

The reason why;

"...Here is a very quick explanation of the $700 billion bailout within the context of the mechanics of our monetary and banking system:

The taxpayers loan money to the banks. But the taxpayers do not have the money. So we have to borrow it from the banks to give it back to the banks. But the banks do not have the money to loan to the government. So they create it into existence (through a mechanism called fractional reserve) and then loan it to us, at interest, so we can then give it back to them.

Confused?

This is the system. This is the standard mechanism used to expand the money supply on a daily basis not a special one designed only for the "$700 billion" transaction. People will explain this to you in many different ways, but this is what it comes down to.

The banks needed Congress' approval. Of course in this topsy turvy world, it is the banks which set the terms of the money they are borrowing from the taxpayers. And what do we get for this transaction? Long term debt enslavement of our country. We get to pay back to the banks trillions of dollars ($700 billion with compounded interest) and the banks give us their bad debt which they cull from everywhere in the world.

Who could turn down a deal like this? I did."

-Dennis Kucinich, US Seanator

This affects Thailand, unless Thailand is not in the set; 'life as we know it'.

[Jingthing]

Mr. Kucinich is a congressman, not a senator. He is part of the moonbeam left which united with the moonbeam right to reject a desperately needed emergency measure. There is no center and that appears to be the problem. BTW, he ran for president and got maybe five votes, so maybe there is still hope. Yes, it is a banking problem but it is also a political problem, the toxic partisanship in US politics for that last decades is really taking its toll.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[njpski]

Stock markets, currency markets are where participants hope to buy low, sell high - the participants (and with the use of options and futures) are betting that markets will move in their desired direction.

I just had a bet on an equine future (i put money on horse 5 in the last race) - - I lost - I demand that the taxpayers bail me out!!

Sounds stupid - but that is what the former financial gurus are asking for. Their bets went sour (in the deregulated environment that they demanded to have, and that they said was so wonderful) - bad luck boys.

Investing is all about risk and return - there should never be guaranteed upside otherwise we are dealing with a distorted market.

If you paid too much for your house because the banks extended easy credit - hard luck to you, the bank and the mortgage insurer -you and they made a bad decision - live with it!

[groper]

Some bloke said...

"THere are many reasons for the strength of the US economy, and consumption is only one aspect. US workers are the most productive in the world, for example, and their agriculture is among the world's most productive."

Maybe this productivity has something to do with the massive subsidies that the farmers receive from the US gov? It's these kinds of handouts that have been controlling the agri' markets giving an unfair advantage for years!

Edited October 1, 2008 by groper

[fullwhenempty]

Please ignore the Pepsi versus Coke Party flim-flam of the US elections. Ignore sloppy talk about greed & stupidity. The financial crisis is real, but its cause is the UNCONTROLLED working of capitalist economics, in particular, the deficit banking scam.

Under (unconstitutional, illegal) Federal Reserve banking robbery, banks have the exclusive right to print paper money. It gets to you/us as loans. Government is financed by borrowing money from banks, & it's paid back by taxes, or more borrowing.

It is quite brutally simple: all monies in circulation are bank borrowings. Let's make it easy to grasp. Let's say for every $100 borrowed, $110 must be paid back to banks after one year. That's the problem, you see? There is never enough money in circulation for population or government to get completely out of debt.

Every year, govs must borrow more money to cover running expenses. It is NOT a problem of govs spending too much. It is a practical impossibility for taxation levels to cover borrowings. If the national debt disappeared, banks would lend out no money, & therefore there would be no money in circulation – an economic disaster.

By the same inescapable arithmetic, an economic slump happens when consolidated borrowings rise beyond the point when they cannot be paid back – as is happening now. The gov can 'save' collapsing financial structures by 'loaning' money. But that 'money' is another IOU that the taxpayer must carry. It is only backed by gov borrowings from other banks, which are more bits of printed paper - a cure that feeds the disease!

Get the picture? I hope so, because if it's over-simplified, you will not see this kind of basic explanation from media economists. Their job is to throw bulldust in the public's eyes.

The only long-term solution is for gov to take back the monopoly right to print & issue money. AND, for capitalism to be brought firmly under the control of a truly democratic system, so it is the servant of the people, not its master. And that will take a revolution, like the one that established the USA.

Don't fancy it? Things are going to get a lot rougher. If you prefer to go on suffering, bleating, & singing "Happy Days Are Here Again" (a great hit of 1929), that's your choice. When the national debt is big enough, they own you, your children, & maybe great-great-grandchildren. These will be in bonded debt-slavery to a handfull of parasitic, aristocratic mafia banking families.

Glad someone gets it, OldgitTom.

People don't understand how the money system really works. The International (Jewish) banker bandit moneylenders, are running the same play they have done for the last 250 years. Inflate, deflate, pick up the distressed assets for a song using money they pluck out of thin air. They lend you whatever you want, (again plucked out of nowhere), then charge you interest, which is where they make their profit. However the fractional reserve system (counterfeiting) where they lend out 10x-200x what they actually have in the vaults and charge interest on invented money, means that all the wealth (and power) flows back to the bankers. THEY own the world and are calling the shots. They make wars since they get 1000% profit from wars rather than 6% at home. They fund both sides. Paper money is not tied to anything. Not to gold. Nothing. It is worthless.

There is nothing to stop governments printing their own money and charging little or no interest. Except anyone who has tried has met with a sticky end.

Now all the jobs have been exported abroad, cheap immigrant labour is taking care of what's left at home, all that's left is the new slavery. Into prison you go or on work/welfare programs. The Middle class are being taken down as the elites implement their mantra...

EVERYTHING FOR US AND NOTHING FOR ANYONE ELSE.

People are waking up, which is why Gold is now scarce.

Scary times ahead.

[dave_boo]

Some bloke said...

"THere are many reasons for the strength of the US economy, and consumption is only one aspect. US workers are the most productive in the world, for example, and their agriculture is among the world's most productive."

Maybe this productivity has something to do with the massive subsidies that the farmers receive from the US gov? It's these kinds of handouts that have been controlling the agri' markets giving an unfair advantage for years!

Could you imagine that quite a few of those subsidies are to NOT produce? If other markets were as open as you propose the American to be, perhaps those subsidies wouldn't be necessary. But other countries reducing or removing there traiffs to promote free trade probably doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hel_l of happening, so if it's good enough for other countries to 'protect' their citizen's interests, why isn't it good enough for America?

[animatic]

I have been living this Bush nightmare for 9 years now,

wondering when the other 3 shoes would drop.

I no longer wonder. Just hope he gets jail time as a legacy.

Only Prime Ministers go to jail.

Presidents resign, or get impeached, and then get pardoned.

Review your history.

in america there is a death penalty on war crimes and/or acts of terrorism. give him to 'conan the terminator' in california, he rarely pardons anyone. the required confessions can be achieved thru 'waterboarding' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding. the cia can do this and the justice department had authorized this procedure. this will be the perfect legacy. "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"......because he is so very much christian. perhaps he will find a mild judge who allows him on bail to visit the olympic games and play football with other bail jumpers. glad if all his assets are frozen by the government, so he cannot loose anything in market turmoils but can demand the return of the last satang after..........

Well Bush is from Texas, and they have executed more there than Arnie,

or China for that matter.

I just think he has been involved with illegal acts, yet to be seen

and it will eventually come out and his legacy will be toast

and he may just deserve jail time for it. One can't be 100% sure,

but he had too much carte blanche for way to long and too much

unwarranted self assurance, Mistakes were made and not just ones we saw...

[animatic]

To me this makes a lot of sense.

Commentary: Bankruptcy, not bailout, is the right answer

By Jeffrey A. Miron

Special to CNN

Editor's note: Jeffrey A. Miron is senior lecturer in economics at Harvard University. A Libertarian, he was one of 166 academic economists who signed a letter to congressional leaders last week opposing the government bailout plan.

CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Congress has balked at the Bush administration's proposed $700 billion bailout of Wall Street. Under this plan, the Treasury would have bought the "troubled assets" of financial institutions in an attempt to avoid economic meltdown.

This bailout was a terrible idea. Here's why.

The current mess would never have occurred in the absence of ill-conceived federal policies. The federal government chartered Fannie Mae in 1938 and Freddie Mac in 1970; these two mortgage lending institutions are at the center of the crisis. The government implicitly promised these institutions that it would make good on their debts, so Fannie and Freddie took on huge amounts of excessive risk.

Worse, beginning in 1977 and even more in the 1990s and the early part of this century, Congress pushed mortgage lenders and Fannie/Freddie to expand subprime lending. The industry was happy to oblige, given the implicit promise of federal backing, and subprime lending soared.

This subprime lending was more than a minor relaxation of existing credit guidelines.This lending was a wholesale abandonment of reasonable lending practices in which borrowers with poor credit characteristics got mortgages they were ill-equipped to handle.

Once housing prices declined and economic conditions worsened, defaults and delinquencies soared, leaving the industry holding large amounts of severely depreciated mortgage assets.

The fact that government bears such a huge responsibility for the current mess means any response should eliminate the conditions that created this situation in the first place, not attempt to fix bad government with more government.

The obvious alternative to a bailout is letting troubled financial institutions declare bankruptcy. Bankruptcy means that shareholders typically get wiped out and the creditors own the company.

Bankruptcy does not mean the company disappears; it is just owned by someone new (as has occurred with several airlines). Bankruptcy punishes those who took excessive risks while preserving those aspects of a businesses that remain profitable.

In contrast, a bailout transfers enormous wealth from taxpayers to those who knowingly engaged in risky subprime lending. Thus, the bailout encourages companies to take large, imprudent risks and count on getting bailed out by government. This "moral hazard" generates enormous distortions in an economy's allocation of its financial resources.

Thoughtful advocates of the bailout might concede this perspective, but they argue that a bailout is necessary to prevent economic collapse. According to this view, lenders are not making loans, even for worthy projects, because they cannot get capital. This view has a grain of truth; if the bailout does not occur, more bankruptcies are possible and credit conditions may worsen for a time.

Talk of Armageddon, however, is ridiculous scare-mongering. If financial institutions cannot make productive loans, a profit opportunity exists for someone else. This might not happen instantly, but it will happen.

Further, the current credit freeze is likely due to Wall Street's hope of a bailout; bankers will not sell their lousy assets for 20 cents on the dollar if the government might pay 30, 50, or 80 cents.

The costs of the bailout, moreover, are almost certainly being understated. The administration's claim is that many mortgage assets are merely illiquid, not truly worthless, implying taxpayers will recoup much of their $700 billion.

If these assets are worth something, however, private parties should want to buy them, and they would do so if the owners would accept fair market value. Far more likely is that current owners have brushed under the rug how little their assets are worth.

The bailout has more problems. The final legislation will probably include numerous side conditions and special dealings that reward Washington lobbyists and their clients.

Anticipation of the bailout will engender strategic behavior by Wall Street institutions as they shuffle their assets and position their balance sheets to maximize their take. The bailout will open the door to further federal meddling in financial markets.

So what should the government do? Eliminate those policies that generated the current mess. This means, at a general level, abandoning the goal of home ownership independent of ability to pay. This means, in particular, getting rid of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, along with policies like the Community Reinvestment Act that pressure banks into subprime lending.

The right view of the financial mess is that an enormous fraction of subprime lending should never have occurred in the first place. Someone has to pay for that. That someone should not be, and does not need to be, the U.S. taxpayer.

A well reasoned analysis. Any attempts at roll backs of risk were beaten down by vested interests

and partisanship, much from the Bush inspired or directed small government movement.

i.e. Less government regulation of existing under-regulated government lending programs.

Thus letting unscrupulous businessmen jigger the system senseless.

PS. While the Rothchilds are extraordinarily rich,

they do not control 50% oif the worlds wealth.

That is 'facts and figures' from conspiracy fantasyland.

This anti-Jewish, 'Zionists control the world' bile has been

floating around for ages. I don't buy it for an instant.

We should be above having to read this crap again here.

Maybe they control a sizable chunk of Hollywood.

Edited October 1, 2008 by animatic

[OlRedEyes]

Read Pearlstein's column in today's Washington Post. This was about preventing a depression. And all the horrible things a depression means which apparently not enough people have a grasp of. Bernacke, the fed chairman, is a leading scholar of the depression and he wanted the bailout. And the fringe groups of America's left and right which because of the current leadership vacuum in the US constitute a majority of the US congress couldn't get their act together to go along. This is not good. The blame game is ridiculous at this stage: the house is on fire!

BTW, as an American, I apologize for my government. They have failed the entire world.

They Just Don't Get It

By Steven Pearlstein

Tuesday, September 30, 2008; Page D01

Oy vey.

That is the technical economic term that best sums up a day in which the House of Representatives refuses to pass a $700 billion rescue plan pushed by the White House and congressional leaders from both parties, Wachovia is taken over in a deal that will have the government potentially owning 10 percent of Citigroup, a few European banks fail, the Federal Reserve and other central banks are forced to inject an additional $300 billion into the global banking system, the Dow Jones industrial average plunges 778 points, and investors everywhere rush to the safety of gold and short-term Treasury bills.

The basic problem here is that too many people don't understand the seriousness of the situation.

Americans fail to understand that they are facing the real prospect of a decade of little or no economic growth because of the bursting of a credit bubble that they helped create and that now threatens to bring down the global financial system.

Nice thought, but not for you to take responsibility for idiots, even if they constitute half the population. Given the opportunity every other country in the world would mess-up spectacularly as well. It's the human condition.

Thing is, like so many others, I don't think a bail-out would actually help much, sadly. Certainly it would in the very short-term, maybe giving a short breathing space to allow some frantic efforts to stem the tide. But ultimately I think the die is cast. Which spells disaster in more ways than I care to imagine.

Time for some human sacrifice to appease the gods. I fear for my child's future, near- and long term.

[Greenside]

The US can't export what it doesn't manufacture. The leading industries in the US are high tech, agricultural and pharmaceutical. All of these are held afloat and made competitive through massive government subsidies. Everyday household items and clothing, and virtually everything sold at box stores like Wal-Mart comes from China. A collapsed US dollar will see normal items exploding in price.

Also, countries like China will soon learn that domestic demand is (or soon will be) large enough that exporting on such massive scales simply isn't necessary anymore. Watch as the world's economy shifts towards China - it is inevitable.

Couldn't cope with wading through the whole thread so forgive me if someone else picked this up.

I've long held the belief that China will naturally turn inwards to focus on supplying it's domestic consumers if for no other reason than laziness, since with increasingly wealthy customers on the doorstep writing orders for their goods, the incentive to bother with all those foreigners at "export prices" starts to look a whole lot smaller. I spent years trying to get small US companies to export to Europe but many simply couldn't see why they should make the effort when a sizeable home market was there for the taking. Newer enterprises in China and India will start to think this way leaving the likes of Wal Mart with an increasing sourcing problem which will translate into rising prices.

This is completely aside from the current crisis but assuming the world as we know it comes out the other side, just another reason to take on board that the era of super cheap goods for those in the West is coming to an end.

[HAL9000]

"Nosedive" is a ridiculously exaggerated way of describing drops that are all less than 10%.

"Lurch down" could be justified, that's all.

And why the note of surprise and panic that is contained in the use of "Emergency"? Hundreds of finanial commentators have been predicting the US financial system getting itself into trouble for months now---or even years, in many cases---since spending US$800,000,000,000 more than its income each year was bound to get the US Government into financial difficulties. "As expected" would be nearer the mark.

Not even lurch down. It's a knee-jerk reaction that will bounce back over the week. 10% is not even bad for cyclical dips and rises. It's the one day drop in reaction to a political event that makes it a headline.

[OldgitTom]

drayon

I do feel the need to correct the point made stating that banks have control to print money. To clarify ONLY the Federal Reserve Bank has the legal right to print money not any "Banks".

Technically correct Drayon, but the Fed is owned by a cabal of private bankers – possibly the sweetest & most lucrative racket in the world. The Bank of England is a similar racket, tho there it is called a British tradition.

Don’t like the anti-Jewish tone of some posters. Nor have I ever found any credible evidence of a global ‘Jewish plot’. Bankers are the same bandits whether Chinese, WASP or Arab. Most Jews are ordinary, decent people (& smarter than most). The likes of the Rothschilds are a miniscule fraction. Outside the ‘family’, few people could even guess the extent of Big R’s power & wealth. Secrecy! Omerta! Notice how the media only mention them to fawn or praise? Ya godda showa da respect!

Also posters, do not live in delusions of our govs doing this, that, or the other to rein in the banks. They & multinationals own most pols – bar a few honest & brave individuals. These few miss out on the pork-barrel opportunities - a tight, circular sytem. For every $100 of bribes from the big fats cats, they get back $1000 in government favors, contracts & subsidies, so they can be even more generous with OUR money to the turkeys who misrepresent us.

But watch China. The balance of power there is held by the Red Army. If Big R et al have been spreading their geld amongst the boys in uniform, we Westerners may be seeing our days of privilege ending. Is this why the USA is being run into the ground? Fantasy? I hope so.

[chiang mai]

drayon

I do feel the need to correct the point made stating that banks have control to print money. To clarify ONLY the Federal Reserve Bank has the legal right to print money not any "Banks".

The Bank of England is a similar racket, tho there it is called a British tradition.

.

Perhaps you would care to expand on the Bank of England point so that we can all be aware?

[astral]

I'm sorry to say this meltdown is America isn't surprising at all, but results from decades of spending more than was earned and borrowing the rest.

Exactly.

It amazed me, when I first visited Thailand some 25 years ago, to meet Americans who would tell me that

they would be paying for their holiday for the rest of the year.

I would not contemplate taking my holiday abroad until I had saved enough money

to cover all my expenses.

[Jingthing]

During times of economic madness, the mad anti-semites come out of the closet. The emergency rescue plan that is now openly supported by Bush, McCain, AND Obama is needed to prevent a worldwide depression and also to prevent hateful thinkers like we have seen here gaining power, as they tend to do during desperate times.

[teatree]

During times of economic madness, the mad anti-semites come out of the closet. The emergency rescue plan that is now openly supported by Bush, McCain, AND Obama is needed to prevent a worldwide depression and also to prevent hateful thinkers like we have seen here gaining power, as they tend to do during desperate times.

This is the same Bush who said a few months ago that the US economy was strong and that talk of a depression was conspiracy theory. Now you want to trust him with a 'bailout plan' that is just an issuance of credit and will lead to the further devaluation of the dollar. You don't get out of debt by going further into debt.

[Jingthing]

During times of economic madness, the mad anti-semites come out of the closet. The emergency rescue plan that is now openly supported by Bush, McCain, AND Obama is needed to prevent a worldwide depression and also to prevent hateful thinkers like we have seen here gaining power, as they tend to do during desperate times.

This is the same Bush who said a few months ago that the US economy was strong and that talk of a depression was conspiracy theory. Now you want to trust him with a 'bailout plan' that is just an issuance of credit and will lead to the further devaluation of the dollar. You don't get out of debt by going further into debt.

Even Bush is right once in a blue moon . In this case, his position comes from listening to the treasury secretary and the fed chairman anyway. I think he is right on this one. This isn't right now about who is to blame, there is more than enough blame to go all around anyway. This is an emergency and I am confident the rescue plan will pass in some form as all the US political leaders want it of both parties and all responsible financial experts want it as well. The "man on the street" still thinks this is a bailout for rich wall street fat cats, when actually this about saving their job, their home values, their retirement, etc. 60 percent of Americans are investors, and in my view, that is a good thing. It also matters to Thailand and the world, because if the US melts down, Americans stop shopping.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Jingthing

[teatree]

During times of economic madness, the mad anti-semites come out of the closet. The emergency rescue plan that is now openly supported by Bush, McCain, AND Obama is needed to prevent a worldwide depression and also to prevent hateful thinkers like we have seen here gaining power, as they tend to do during desperate times.

This is the same Bush who said a few months ago that the US economy was strong and that talk of a depression was conspiracy theory. Now you want to trust him with a 'bailout plan' that is just an issuance of credit and will lead to the further devaluation of the dollar. You don't get out of debt by going further into debt.

Even Bush is right once in a blue moon . I think he is right on this one. This isn't right now about who is to blame, there is more than enough blame to go all around anyway. This is an emergency and I am confident the rescue plan will pass in some form as all the US political leaders want it of both parties and all responsible financial experts want it as well. The "man on the street" still thinks this is a bailout for rich wall street fat cats, when actually this about saving their job, their home values, their retirement, etc. 60 percent of Americans are investors, and in my view, that is a good thing.

Do you believe them when they say they only need 750 billion? If you do then I have a bridge I want to sell you. The financial hologram black hole will suck in TRILLIONS and still not be righted. Throwing money at it may buy time but that is all and in the end will only add to the problem. A fundamental overhaul of the entire financial system is needed, starting with the masters of the Ponzi scheme - the federal reserve.

[robee]

I am currenty in california, for the first time in 8 years...really sucks by the way, but this is all everyone is talking about...and seneque is correct we will feel it in Thailand......I remember reading back a few years ago that if the economy of Brazil nosedived it would rat f--- the whole world....I am a retired MD with my eggs strewn all over the place.I am losing alot of money day to day...Thank god the home and wife are paid for

Agreed. It six. Feel this situation may affect other markets based on what happens in DC regarding the vote on bail out.

[robee]

During times of economic madness, the mad anti-semites come out of the closet. The emergency rescue plan that is now openly supported by Bush, McCain, AND Obama is needed to prevent a worldwide depression and also to prevent hateful thinkers like we have seen here gaining power, as they tend to do during desperate times.

This is the same Bush who said a few months ago that the US economy was strong and that talk of a depression was conspiracy theory. Now you want to trust him with a 'bailout plan' that is just an issuance of credit and will lead to the further devaluation of the dollar. You don't get out of debt by going further into debt.

Even Bush is right once in a blue moon . I think he is right on this one. This isn't right now about who is to blame, there is more than enough blame to go all around anyway. This is an emergency and I am confident the rescue plan will pass in some form as all the US political leaders want it of both parties and all responsible financial experts want it as well. The "man on the street" still thinks this is a bailout for rich wall street fat cats, when actually this about saving their job, their home values, their retirement, etc. 60 percent of Americans are investors, and in my view, that is a good thing.

no I don't and you are correct about fed.

Do you believe them when they say they only need 750 billion? If you do then I have a bridge I want to sell you. The financial hologram black hole will suck in TRILLIONS and still not be righted. Throwing money at it may buy time but that is all and in the end will only add to the problem. A fundamental overhaul of the entire financial system is needed, starting with the masters of the Ponzi scheme - the federal reserve.

[VegasVic]

During times of economic madness, the mad anti-semites come out of the closet. The emergency rescue plan that is now openly supported by Bush, McCain, AND Obama is needed to prevent a worldwide depression and also to prevent hateful thinkers like we have seen here gaining power, as they tend to do during desperate times.

This is the same Bush who said a few months ago that the US economy was strong and that talk of a depression was conspiracy theory. Now you want to trust him with a 'bailout plan' that is just an issuance of credit and will lead to the further devaluation of the dollar. You don't get out of debt by going further into debt.

Even Bush is right once in a blue moon . In this case, his position comes from listening to the treasury secretary and the fed chairman anyway. I think he is right on this one. This isn't right now about who is to blame, there is more than enough blame to go all around anyway. This is an emergency and I am confident the rescue plan will pass in some form as all the US political leaders want it of both parties and all responsible financial experts want it as well. The "man on the street" still thinks this is a bailout for rich wall street fat cats, when actually this about saving their job, their home values, their retirement, etc. 60 percent of Americans are investors, and in my view, that is a good thing. It also matters to Thailand and the world, because if the US melts down, Americans stop shopping.

After reading a couple pages of fanatical and panic striken posts here on this thread, it is refreshing to see someone who has a grasp on what is going on As I post here the U.S. Senate is working on a bill that they could very well vote on tonight or tomorrow morning. This is the reverse of how things usually happen (usualy the bill goes from the House then to the Senate) but since the House was so partisan and disorganized the Senate has decided to pass a comprimise bill and then lay it on the House members lap when they return tomorrow! Lets just hope that this time around Nancy Pelousy can stay away from her highly partisan adolescent attacks , and can actually do her job and get this passed by Thursday night