Garmin Nuvi & Esri Maps, Read Before You Buy

[scubapat]

I bought a Garmin 660 in the USA and brought it here to Thailand and purchased the ESRI maps to complete the package. Works great, except that for my needs I wanted the "routing" feature on the new 880 model. So when I went back to the USA I bought the 880 and took both units to ESRI to have the maps unlocked on the 880 and relocked on the 660 since they only allow one map per unit.

Much to my suprise you cannot upgrade hardware or replace broken hardware without buying a new software license for 7K Baht each time. SO if you buy a Garmin product make sure you understand that the software is locked to the unit and you are SOL if you want to get a new unit, or lose it for that matter etc.

A ridiculous policy by ESRI IMHO.

If anyone knows any way around this it would be great to hear about it. I'm usually a non proponent of copy software but in this case I would make an exception since I already paid my fees and I'm not paying them again.

Or if their are any alternatives to Garmin and ESRI that dont have this restrictive feature?

Thanks

[Gary A]

I agree that it is quite petty, BUT, it was explained to me before I bought the map that it could not be transferred to another unit. Besides that, it will be difficult to sell the 660 in Thailand without the map. I'm sure you will get more for the unit in Thailand than anywhere else.

I imported a Nuvi 750 from the US. It cost me $40 for shipping and customs tacked on about another $100 for import tax.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Gary A

[skippybangkok]

have u checked for hacks ?

[dave_boo]

I bought a Garmin 660 in the USA and brought it here to Thailand and purchased the ESRI maps to complete the package. Works great, except that for my needs I wanted the "routing" feature on the new 880 model. So when I went back to the USA I bought the 880 and took both units to ESRI to have the maps unlocked on the 880 and relocked on the 660 since they only allow one map per unit.

Much to my suprise you cannot upgrade hardware or replace broken hardware without buying a new software license for 7K Baht each time. SO if you buy a Garmin product make sure you understand that the software is locked to the unit and you are SOL if you want to get a new unit, or lose it for that matter etc.

A ridiculous policy by ESRI IMHO.

If anyone knows any way around this it would be great to hear about it. I'm usually a non proponent of copy software but in this case I would make an exception since I already paid my fees and I'm not paying them again.

Or if their are any alternatives to Garmin and ESRI that dont have this restrictive feature?

Thanks

Flip y'all's position. If you are in a business of supplying a product, how many 'freebies' would you be willing to give out? Look at it this way; ESRI is offering a free update to a product you've purchased. If you purchased an uprated ECU for your Vigo, would you expect another for your Yaris?

Also of note, if your state-side Garmin device isn't updated in ~30 days, you lose your free update. AFAIK, ESRI provides the free updates at any point.

And the maps for one device is a Garmin policy, not an ESRI one.

[skippybangkok]

.

ESRI Employee ?

Edited October 1, 2008 by skippybangkok

[dave_boo]

.

ESRI Employee ?

No, but a happy customer (other than a 3 minute transaction taking over an hour becuase they were all goo-goo over my baby daughter). I just dislike the sense of entitlement that is so often demonstrated. Nobody is forced to upgrade their product, and if they want to, why should they get to do it for free? Should the folks that run the business suffer to make you feel good about saving 7 000 THB?

[Gary A]

I would guess that if you had bought the GPS from them, they may be more cooperative. I bought just my map from Gadget Trend and their service has been great. I have no complaints with the map and certainly no complaints with their service.

[skippybangkok]

Found this on the web - it works - scary though. dont fiddle with it

Garmin Log

[scubapat]

I bought a Garmin 660 in the USA and brought it here to Thailand and purchased the ESRI maps to complete the package. Works great, except that for my needs I wanted the "routing" feature on the new 880 model. So when I went back to the USA I bought the 880 and took both units to ESRI to have the maps unlocked on the 880 and relocked on the 660 since they only allow one map per unit.

Much to my suprise you cannot upgrade hardware or replace broken hardware without buying a new software license for 7K Baht each time. SO if you buy a Garmin product make sure you understand that the software is locked to the unit and you are SOL if you want to get a new unit, or lose it for that matter etc.

A ridiculous policy by ESRI IMHO.

If anyone knows any way around this it would be great to hear about it. I'm usually a non proponent of copy software but in this case I would make an exception since I already paid my fees and I'm not paying them again.

Or if their are any alternatives to Garmin and ESRI that dont have this restrictive feature?

Thanks

Flip y'all's position. If you are in a business of supplying a product, how many 'freebies' would you be willing to give out? Look at it this way; ESRI is offering a free update to a product you've purchased. If you purchased an uprated ECU for your Vigo, would you expect another for your Yaris?

Also of note, if your state-side Garmin device isn't updated in ~30 days, you lose your free update. AFAIK, ESRI provides the free updates at any point.

And the maps for one device is a Garmin policy, not an ESRI one.

I think your missing my point, look at it this way: As an analogy, you buy a Dell laptop, then go buy PhotoShop. six months later you decide to upgrade the Dell Computer to another machine. You now have to buy another copy of PhotoShop, full price for the same software, same revision. This is what they want you to do at ESRI.....

Better yet go buy a Vigo, then buy a fancy new soundsystem for your new Vigo from an independent. Now go get the Yaris and have the independent tell you he locked it to the Vigo, you can't remove it from the Vigo and put it in your new Yaris, it must stay with the Vigo. He says if you want it, just go buy another one for the same price, no upgrade notta.

In my case I offered to lock out the old Nuvi so I could use the new one but still they said I needed to buy it again. There's no entitlement and no freebies here, all I want is one license of the same revision per any one device at any one time. If they bring out an update that adds value, I'll purchase it at extra cost, no problem. If I want to use it on two devices at the same time, I'll gladly pay for the second copy.

This is the way Garmin handles City Streets in the USA, I called and verified the practice. I also have an E-mail from Garmin that is not supportive of the ESRI policy, but they can do nothing about it since ESRI is a map licensee and not obligated under Garmins rules.

All this policy will do is drive well intended people to copy software.

[dave_boo]

I think your missing my point, look at it this way: As an analogy, you buy a Dell laptop, then go buy PhotoShop. six months later you decide to upgrade the Dell Computer to another machine. You now have to buy another copy of PhotoShop, full price for the same software, same revision. This is what they want you to do at ESRI.....

Or you can just forgo buying the product in the first place. It is explained to customers (at least it was to me and it's indicated on their website) what the policy is. Whether or not you agree with the policy should influence your purchases. If you disagree, don't purchase it in the first place. We're not talking about life or death necessities here, but rather something that people are purchasing to facilitate their lifes and then later disagreeing with the terms they agree to upon purchase.

Better yet go buy a Vigo, then buy a fancy new soundsystem for your new Vigo from an independent. Now go get the Yaris and have the independent tell you he locked it to the Vigo, you can't remove it from the Vigo and put it in your new Yaris, it must stay with the Vigo. He says if you want it, just go buy another one for the same price, no upgrade notta.

The difference your proposed case stipulates that the consumer was informed post facto. This isn't the case in a purchase from ESRI. Thus a strawman argument.

In my case I offered to lock out the old Nuvi so I could use the new one but still they said I needed to buy it again. There's no entitlement and no freebies here, all I want is one license of the same revision per any one device at any one time. If they bring out an update that adds value, I'll purchase it at extra cost, no problem. If I want to use it on two devices at the same time, I'll gladly pay for the second copy.

That was a nice offer on your part, but once again think of how their business could suffer. AFAIK (and I'm wrong a lot), there's no way to 'lock out' the old GPS. While the maps could be deleted, in my case they sent me a CD. Do they also provide a cd to everyone? And if you turn in the CD, have them delete the maps from your device, how do they know that you didn't make a copy of the CD to re-install the maps on your old device?

This is the way Garmin handles City Streets in the USA, I called and verified the practice. I also have an E-mail from Garmin that is not supportive of the ESRI policy, but they can do nothing about it since ESRI is a map licensee and not obligated under Garmins rules.

My understanding (refer to me being wrong above ) is that if you buy a new Garmin in the States it comes with the maps AND gives you a 30 day window to update your software. After that you have to pay for upgrades; looking through their website I find no indication that you can buy one upgrade, install it on a device and then use that upgrade on future purchases.

I'm not going to deny your right to lobby Garmin to try and get ESRI to change their practices, but the whinging about it AFTER your purchase and the explaination of the terms sounds to me like a case of entitlement. Perhaps you can get some sort of petition going; I'd sign it.

And that's really the crux of the matter. I agree that software should be free. Not in the free as beer sense neccesarily, but rather that it shouldn't be restricted. There are precious few programmes that I use that are closed and restrictive, but since I do need them, I pony up the cash and console my pride in the fact that otherwise I'm using F/OSS.

All this policy will do is drive well intended people to copy software.

Well intended people will recognise that ESRI is providing them with a supplemental service that the purchaser is NOT needing for basic living and be content with rewarding ESRI for their efforts.

[LivinLOS]

not really.. The software is locked to the unit.. If you get a new unit you could have it 'transfered' to the new one and re-install it back on the old one.. If they allowed transfers it would effectively allow it to be sold twice.

Of course you could just go here and get the keygen..

http://www.pda4x.com/read.php?tid=62103&am...e=1&fpage=1

[desertrat]

There are umpteen free maps for virtually any area in Thailand, not routeable, however Rotweiler have SUPERB routeables, even show every bar in Bangkok.They cost very very little, Garmin are releasing new mapsource software which won't recognise Rotweiler, so get vers 6137, b4 they delist it.

The price of GPSr is horrendous compared to US, virtually giveaways now, as the swishier models are introduced.

[LivinLOS]

There are umpteen free maps for virtually any area in Thailand, not routeable, however Rotweiler have SUPERB routeables, even show every bar in Bangkok.They cost very very little, Garmin are releasing new mapsource software which won't recognise Rotweiler, so get vers 6137, b4 they delist it.

The price of GPSr is horrendous compared to US, virtually giveaways now, as the swishier models are introduced.

Some units are not routable using the rotwieller maps..

Also according to the map hackers and garmin freak forums, the Rotwiller maps are basically the early ERSI 7 maps, with the 'ownership' field changed and relocked by the GPSmapper pro package.. So he stole / unlocked the map and then relocked it for his own profit.

[Bpraim1]

Why all the heavy import taxes GaryA, I imported a nuvi 360 and no tax or duty, Just bought a new Nuvi 760 and no tax again? glad to see ESRI lowered their prices, 11000 for the last map was a slap. Got Thailand NTv8 map free with my 760 so will be upgrade'n to esri next year.

[Gary A]

Why all the heavy import taxes GaryA, I imported a nuvi 360 and no tax or duty, Just bought a new Nuvi 760 and no tax again? glad to see ESRI lowered their prices, 11000 for the last map was a slap. Got Thailand NTv8 map free with my 760 so will be upgrade'n to esri next year.

I was a bit shocked too. It was shipped UPS and I had to pay the tax before they would give me the package.

[Rotweiler]

A correction. The Rotweiler Group's maps work in ALL Garmin units.

They are NOT "stolen" maps, "ERSI maps", "ownership field changed" maps. Perhaps you should visit the mapcenter at cgpsmapper.com and check the years of work that went into these maps - by three major contributors.

Profit? LOL

RT

Some units are not routable using the rotwieller maps..

Also according to the map hackers and garmin freak forums, the Rotwiller maps are basically the early ERSI 7 maps, with the 'ownership' field changed and relocked by the GPSmapper pro package.. So he stole / unlocked the map and then relocked it for his own profit.

[LivinLOS]

Thats not what posters on multiple mapping forums have decided..

Seems mighty odd that so many of the ESRI v7 maps have identical mistakes and wrong or strange spellings.. A statistical oddity to be sure