Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[h90]

Oddly I think Somechai is a nice man.

But he was too much of a milktoast to stand up to the Tuesday hawks,

and is wife's demands in general. The hawks won the day Tuesday,

and Somchai will pay the price for his lack of backbone.

He was never the right man for the job,

just a trusted man in Kensington.

So much for a legacy...

somchai might be a nice man, but both his wife and a man in England is controlling him.

And the silent nice one if in the corner can be worse than the openly violent one.....

seeing the blood and not doing anything is NOT nice.....

h90 I think hamstrung and bewildered fits him right now. Punch drunk too.

Clutching at straws while the quick sand swallows him.

If he has had any private moments sans wife, sans aidse, sans QUESTIONS,

I suspect he is privately appalled, but can't speak on it for a variety of reasons.

I think he has quickly become a vary unhappy man, in a very public way.

I very much doubt his order to clear the way to parlement included

maiming and killing so many in ANY of his daydreams or calculations.

But much sicker minds took advantage of his order to sow disorder.

Samak I can believe would have reveled in this as a 'just deserts thing'

and loved the uproar to follow. But we knew he was a nutter.

Somechai is the lost man. I think it has taken a few extra busy,

busy days for the whole appalling mess to dawn on him.

I think I will reserve final opinion on him for what he says AFTER the job his toast,

brother in law has blown him off, and wife realizes she blew it big time pushing him into this.

I disagree here.

He might have given softer orders on the beginning and did not want that.....maybe

But he has a TV and staff looking it and updating him.....say that also failed

After he escape there was the second crackdown and it last many hours.....if all before was a honest mistake (extreme super improbable) the last crackdown was not.

And if even this was (super mega extreme improbable) we would have seen him on the next day on TV crying and telling how his heart is broken and he will find the wrongdoers and punish them.

So sorry you are wrong...he did that with purpose a friendly square face does not make a friendly man.

Dogs who bark don't bite...he does not bark.

[younghusband]

There's a good account of what happened on October 7th by a Western news photograher here. Plenty of photos too.

Thanks for posting that account camerata. It gives a great view of someone that is apparently impartial and is actually at the scene. I don't have any preference of the PPP or PAD as i am not Thai, but it is good that the truth be found. I find it hard to believe that there was no violence on the PAD side when they went to the demonstration with weapons. People that want to demonstrate peacefully do not carry weapons period.

Cheers, Rick

ROFLMAO... Nick Notalent is the one most PARTIAL and biased so-called journalist on the 'net, which is one reason he's posting on a blog and not writing for the major media.

You are just shaming yourself.What little credibility you have is lost by these sad and dishonest comments.

Edited October 11, 2008 by younghusband

[sriracha john]

There's a good account of what happened on October 7th by a Western news photograher here. Plenty of photos too.

Thanks for posting that account camerata. It gives a great view of someone that is apparently impartial and is actually at the scene. I don't have any preference of the PPP or PAD as i am not Thai, but it is good that the truth be found. I find it hard to believe that there was no violence on the PAD side when they went to the demonstration with weapons. People that want to demonstrate peacefully do not carry weapons period.

Cheers, Rick

ROFLMAO... Nick Notalent is the one most PARTIAL and biased so-called journalist on the 'net, which is one reason he's posting on a blog and not writing for the major media.

You are just shaming yourself.What little credibility you have is lost by these sad and dishonest comments.

so says you for the 4th time...

So you don't think his blog-writing is biased?

Would you care to respond to Samuian's post where he nicely points out a few of the particulars?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2268568

[sriracha john]

Salang's assault plan rejected

Pro-government figures yesterday rejected the use of force to seize back Government House from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

The idea was floated by former Deputy National Police Chief Police General Salang Bunnag, who proposed mobilising former policemen for the operation.

Kwanchai Praipana, Chairman of the Udon Lovers Club and a leading supporter of ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra, yesterday denied that he would bring 10,000 club members to join Salang in dislodging the PAD from Government House.

He said he did not want to be blamed for leading people to their deaths as police had yet to clear Government House of weaponry.

Agriculture Minister Theerachai Saenkaew, a People Power Party MP for Udon Thani, said he did not believe anyone from Udon Thani would go along with Salang because that would only aggravate the situation. He said he respected Salang and refused to comment on his announcement that he would force the PAD out of Government House.

Salang yesterday confirmed the report that he would mobilise a force, but refused to elaborate. He said earlier reports had misquoted him as saying the mission would take just five days.

Academics in the South said the government would show lamentable weakness if it let Salang incite a third party to seize control of Government House.

Academic Hormad Sombunbua-luang said the government had to stop the confrontation, which would inevitably lead to bloodshed.

Dr Chantana Suthijaree, a lecturer in Chiang Mai University's Faculty of Political Science, expressed concern that the move would lead to a repeat of the violence of October 6, 1976. She said the PM would stand accused if he failed to stop Salang.

Songkhla Provincial Chamber of Commerce Chairman Dr Surachai Jitpakdibordin said there was no light at the end of the tunnel after police dispersed the PAD on Tuesday and Salang had only rubbed salt into the wound with his threat. He feared the country was doomed to further losses.

The three hosts of the programme 'The Truth Today", led by Veera Musikapong, yesterday mobilised Thaksin supporters to rally at Muang Thong Thani in a show of force and to map out a plan against the PAD.

They called on the Democratic Alliance for Democracy to converge on Sanam Luang today and tomorrow. Veera said the DAD would hold a peaceful protest against the PAD and the move had nothing to do with Salang's plan. The DAD will not join Salang because it does not believe in any move that would bring confrontation with the PAD, he said.

- The Nation / 2008-10-12

[sriracha john]

Crackdown ruined all hope for reconciliation

<snipped>The Cabinet had a late-night meeting on Monday and many ministers suggested Somchai postpone the policy announcement from Tuesday, or to read the statement elsewhere and restrict government actions to negotiations only. Deputy PM Chavalit, Foreign Minister Sompong, Agriculture Minister Somsak, and Deputy PM Sanan backed the recommendations. Despite opposition from Deputy Agriculture Minister Teerachai and Education Minister Srimuang, the Cabinet agreed on a peaceful response on that night. Tuesday's events surprised many Cabinet ministers, who wondered why the government employed such drastic measures in its first response to the demonstration in front of the Parliament. Many people have wondered if any powerful person behind Somchai made the order.

Democrat Party urges government to reveal about special Cabinet meeting

Democrat Party requested the government to reveal about its special Cabinet meeting memorandum, which is believed to have triggered the October 7 violence.

Democrat Party Spokesman Buranat Samutrak disagreed on the government-led establishment of independent commissions to investigate the violence on October 7, 2008. He believed such authority would not be able to gain public acceptance. In doing so, the commissions should be fully independent and consisted of representatives from both government and PAD sides, in order to share legal authorities, corruption monitoring measures, and budgets.

Furthermore, Democrat Party also had submitted a request to the Office of the National Anti-Corruption Commission (ONCC) and discussed with ONCC member, Mr. Klanarong Chanthik, on filing a case to the Criminal Department for the Holder of Political Positions Division within the Supreme Court, in order to investigate on whether or not the PM had defied his duty as well as the police authority that could have intentionally provoked the clash on Tuesday. Thus, Democrat Party urged the PM and his administration to take responsibility for such incident by either resigning or dissolving the Parliament.

Also, Democrat Party Member of the Parliament Mr. Ong-art Klampaiboon required the government to disclose information on the special Cabinet meeting memorandum that was held on October 6, 2008 to the public in order to ensure transparency and actuality behind the October 7 violence and prove on whether or not such incident was pre-meditated and orchestrated by the government.

- ThaiNews / 2008-10-11

[sriracha john]

PRO-GOVERNMENT MOB ASSAULTS DRIVER

CHIANG MAI : Pro-government mobs assaulted a shuttle van driver yesterday as they rallied at Maharaj Nakorn Chiang Mai hospital, demanding the names of doctors who refused to treat government MPs and police. The rally took place about 2pm, when 100 members of the Rak Chiang Mai 51 Group donning red T-shirts turned up outside an emergency ward of the hospital, better known as Suan Dok hospital, in Muang district. They wanted the names of 70 doctors at Chiang Mai University's faculty of medicine who on Wednesday decided against treating police, cabinet members and government MPs, except in emergency cases. A group of doctors from eight medical institutions joined the boycott in protest against the government's use of violence to disperse demonstrators the day before. The protesters gave the hospital until Wednesday to give them the list of the medical professors who joined the boycott.

During a rally, the driver of a shuttle van which transports patients and their relatives between hospital buildings, shouted: "Get out." The driver was said to be upset with traffic problems and noise caused by protesters. Some angry protesters then charged at the man and injured him. His

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/121008_News/12Oct2008_news02.php

[animatic]

Oddly I think Somechai is a nice man.

But he was too much of a milktoast to stand up to the Tuesday hawks,

and is wife's demands in general. The hawks won the day Tuesday,

and Somchai will pay the price for his lack of backbone.

He was never the right man for the job,

just a trusted man in Kensington.

So much for a legacy...

somchai might be a nice man, but both his wife and a man in England is controlling him.

And the silent nice one if in the corner can be worse than the openly violent one.....

seeing the blood and not doing anything is NOT nice.....

h90 I think hamstrung and bewildered fits him right now. Punch drunk too.

Clutching at straws while the quick sand swallows him.

If he has had any private moments sans wife, sans aidse, sans QUESTIONS,

I suspect he is privately appalled, but can't speak on it for a variety of reasons.

I think he has quickly become a vary unhappy man, in a very public way.

I very much doubt his order to clear the way to parlement included

maiming and killing so many in ANY of his daydreams or calculations.

But much sicker minds took advantage of his order to sow disorder.

Samak I can believe would have reveled in this as a 'just deserts thing'

and loved the uproar to follow. But we knew he was a nutter.

Somechai is the lost man. I think it has taken a few extra busy,

busy days for the whole appalling mess to dawn on him.

I think I will reserve final opinion on him for what he says AFTER the job his toast,

brother in law has blown him off, and wife realizes she blew it big time pushing him into this.

I disagree here.

He might have given softer orders on the beginning and did not want that.....maybe

But he has a TV and staff looking it and updating him.....say that also failed

After he escape there was the second crackdown and it last many hours.....if all before was a honest mistake (extreme super improbable) the last crackdown was not.

And if even this was (super mega extreme improbable) we would have seen him on the next day on TV crying and telling how his heart is broken and he will find the wrongdoers and punish them.

So sorry you are wrong...he did that with purpose a friendly square face does not make a friendly man.

Dogs who bark don't bite...he does not bark.

h90, as I indicated, I don't think he was given the option to show remorse then.

I think he now is because the and 'someone said: time to show remorse; Do it.

I think he was specifically told, 'it's started, go on with it, look strong or your are toast.'

He maybe PM, but you must agree, he is NOT the boss.

And the one who IS the 'Boss' wants revenge on PAD big time...

Edited October 12, 2008 by animatic

[animatic]

PRO-GOVERNMENT MOB ASSAULTS DRIVER

CHIANG MAI : Pro-government mobs assaulted a shuttle van driver yesterday as they rallied at Maharaj Nakorn Chiang Mai hospital, demanding the names of doctors who refused to treat government MPs and police. The rally took place about 2pm, when 100 members of the Rak Chiang Mai 51 Group donning red T-shirts turned up outside an emergency ward of the hospital, better known as Suan Dok hospital, in Muang district. They wanted the names of 70 doctors at Chiang Mai University's faculty of medicine who on Wednesday decided against treating police, cabinet members and government MPs, except in emergency cases. A group of doctors from eight medical institutions joined the boycott in protest against the government's use of violence to disperse demonstrators the day before. The protesters gave the hospital until Wednesday to give them the list of the medical professors who joined the boycott.

During a rally, the driver of a shuttle van which transports patients and their relatives between hospital buildings, shouted: "Get out." The driver was said to be upset with traffic problems and noise caused by protesters. Some angry protesters then charged at the man and injured him. His

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/121008_News/12Oct2008_news02.php

Nice controled mob.

The drive only said "Get Out."

so you can imagine what they want to do with those 70 MD's.

Non-emergency work is not mandatory.

No doctor MUST take every patient that shows up.

Emergency work yes, if severe or life threatening.

They are within their rights. You may not like that.

But if they refused PAD members for the same reasons

several here would applaud LOUDLY.

I can feel the flames gathering now.

[catmac]

There's a good account of what happened on October 7th by a Western news photograher here. Plenty of photos too.

Thanks for this link. There is a link to the footage I looked for: A police man is run down by a peaceful pick up driver.

Fantastic eyewitness reporting. If only Thais could see reports like this!

First class piece of factual reporting.

In particular, it lays to rest that so often repeated lie of PAD's - "there was no warning given". If you read on to the comments after the main piece, you'll see that someone has already reported that that the warnings given by the police were strangely not mentioned in the Thai press, makes me think that a lot of PAD's supporters here just swallow as gospel anything they read in the Nation, etc., and perhaps some of them that claimed they were at the front-line wereactually propping up the bar!

[Ricardo]

Some ex-police chief nutter is now trying to gather a mob of serving police officers to attack the PAD at GH. It reminds me more of following an infamous English football team in the 70's and early 80's all the time. But with maybe less organization

And I heard that the other team is also gearing up. some PAD supporter with a lot muscles, everyone the same short hairs.

Look like army, smell like army.....

Amazing! So where do you hear all this information that is apparently only privy to you. back up the story with some evidence or don't tell the story at all.

Rick

bangkokrick, may I also confirm, that I too heard the black-shirted ex-senior-police-chief threaten this, to call a dozen of his still-serving senior-colleagues, and get each one to send 200 'volunteers' to form a street fighting-force.

It was on the 6pm TV-news, on Thursday, I think.

So this wasn't any sort of fabrication or private-information, someone has to be the first to report things here on TV, in this case it was h90.

Salang's assault plan rejected

Pro-government figures yesterday rejected the use of force to seize back Government House from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

The idea was floated by former Deputy National Police Chief Police General Salang Bunnag, who proposed mobilising former policemen for the operation.

Kwanchai Praipana, Chairman of the Udon Lovers Club and a leading supporter of ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra, yesterday denied that he would bring 10,000 club members to join Salang in dislodging the PAD from Government House.

He said he did not want to be blamed for leading people to their deaths as police had yet to clear Government House of weaponry.

Agriculture Minister Theerachai Saenkaew, a People Power Party MP for Udon Thani, said he did not believe anyone from Udon Thani would go along with Salang because that would only aggravate the situation. He said he respected Salang and refused to comment on his announcement that he would force the PAD out of Government House.

Salang yesterday confirmed the report that he would mobilise a force, but refused to elaborate. He said earlier reports had misquoted him as saying the mission would take just five days.

Academics in the South said the government would show lamentable weakness if it let Salang incite a third party to seize control of Government House.

- The Nation / 2008-10-12

And the reports reach the press a couple of days later, when various people sensibly respond to Chief Police General Salang Bunnag, that he won't get their support, or that his help is not needed.

A force of black-shirted cops, bent on further violence & outside government control, might yet spark the military-intervention, which the army seem to want to avoid, another small step down the long road to democracy.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Ricardo

[catmac]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/11...cs_30085779.php

Nation has this:

The Army chief gave a rare television interview after pressure mounted on him to take action to stop the political turmoil. The People's Alliance for Democracy had called on him to join with them in fighting the police and the government.

"We are a people's army, but it is impossible in one country to have the military fight the police in league with a certain group of people," Anupong said. "Taking any side will not end the story."

PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul told the protesters inside Government House on Friday night that Anupong was "no longer staying with people".

In a rare public statement showing his deperate desire for a coup, Sondhi insisted that there was such a thing as a good coup.

"Taking a side will not end the story," said Anupong in the TV interview. It was a remarkable statement from one of the coup leaders who overthrew the Thaksin government by force in 2006.

And the last piece de resistance

The PAD, as expected, was enraged. Sondhi and a number of PAD leaders on Friday night hinted that Anupong might have interests as his son is studying in London and is possibly taken care of by a millionaire in London. "Isn't your son studying in England? Before you still pay a mortgage but now you're dam_n rich," Sondhi said.

Seems like all of the toys came out of the cot.

That last sneer from Sondhi shows so clearly what a perverted, evil little man he is. How so many people on this board can still hold him up to be the country's saviour I don't know. He is a man consumed by his hatred for his one-time chum, Thaksin, to the point where he will savage anybody who doesn't conform to his vendetta.

For this reason alone, I cannot see any chance of negotiation, dialogue or compromise to end the present confrontation being remotely possible. Sondhi will go on battling in the streets (or rather he will continue ranting on the stage of Gov. Hse. whilst others do the actual battling - and the getting hurt!) until he is put away in prison or an asylum for his own safety.

[sriracha john]

There's a good account of what happened on October 7th by a Western news photograher here. Plenty of photos too.

Fantastic eyewitness reporting. If only Thais could see reports like this!

First class piece of factual reporting.

In particular, it lays to rest that so often repeated lie of PAD's - "there was no warning given". If you read on to the comments after the main piece, you'll see that someone has already reported that that the warnings given by the police were strangely not mentioned in the Thai press, makes me think that a lot of PAD's supporters here just swallow as gospel anything they read in the Nation, etc., and perhaps some of them that claimed they were at the front-line wereactually propping up the bar!

Amazing how the dozens and dozens of international reporters and journalists in addition to the many local reporters all missed these warnings... and that Somchai's own government is setting up an independent commission to look into this and other non-international standard police tactics used...and that plenty of non-PAD people are condemning these tactics... but the intrepid blogger Nick didn't miss these warnings... the scoop of the year and it's sitting idly on a blog site with 8 replies...

Edited October 12, 2008 by sriracha john

[animatic]

And the facts listed above are ONLY effective for Hipocratic oath

if it is an emergency in which they are obliged to take the patient,

or they accept the patient and are working on them.

There is NO MORAL COMPUNCTION for an MD to take every patient.

Medcines Sans Frontiers also speak out against violent government actions.

You would muzzle doctors from their moral opinions?

[sbk]

PUBLIC WARNING

1. Do NOT flame or insult other members. This thread is being watched and abuse will be dealt with.

2. Do NOT post inside a quoted text. It gives the impression that the OP is making the statement rather than yourself. It is very poor forum netiquette and further such posts will be deleted wholesale without notifying the poster.

Lets keep this civil, it is possible to debate without resorting to nastiness.

[Thai at Heart]

I for one would definitely not cheer if doctors claimed they didn't want to treat PAD members.

Doctor's should stick to being doctors, and should keep their political affiliations out of medical decisions. Decision making like that is a very short distance away from apartheid.

[Plus]

Nick Noltisz(?) has been writing his anti-PAD blog for ages, why would anyone assume that his latest piece is impartial? He has never been impartial, sometimes even comical in his relentless attempts to paint two sides in Nick's designated colors.

There were reports of NO warnings given. Or at least those warnings didn't reach any of the journalists covering the story.

[younghusband]

There's a good account of what happened on October 7th by a Western news photograher here. Plenty of photos too.

Thanks for posting that account camerata. It gives a great view of someone that is apparently impartial and is actually at the scene. I don't have any preference of the PPP or PAD as i am not Thai, but it is good that the truth be found. I find it hard to believe that there was no violence on the PAD side when they went to the demonstration with weapons. People that want to demonstrate peacefully do not carry weapons period.

Cheers, Rick

ROFLMAO... Nick Notalent is the one most PARTIAL and biased so-called journalist on the 'net, which is one reason he's posting on a blog and not writing for the major media.

You are just shaming yourself.What little credibility you have is lost by these sad and dishonest comments.

so says you for the 4th time...

So you don't think his blog-writing is biased?

and I think this is reflected in

Would you care to respond to Samuian's post where he nicely points out a few of the particulars?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2268568

You don't seem to understand that the blogosphere is these days is as influential as the main stream press.Most fair observers (Camerata etc) believe Nick's piece gives an excellent account of what happened.No doubt there were inaccuracies but then there always are in any news report (think Bloody Sunday in Ulster).If you have serious objections by virtue of personal knowledge you are of course free to express them but I think it's beyond dispute that Nick was in the thick of things and doing his best to give a true account.

But from you we only get an unsupported rant that Nick is one of the most partial and biased journalists on the net.Samuian's post to which you refer is almost incomprehensible for reasons mentioned by a moderator but doesn't make any serious contribution from what I can glean.Overall I would advise you to tone down personal attacks simply because you don't like the message.If you think Nick has got it all seriously wrong, specifically imposing personal bias on a piece of reportage, a cool analysis is more effective than name calling.Personally I haven't the faintest idea where Nick stands on Thai politics, and in his piece he points out of course that both sides had examples of poor behaviour.

[younghusband]

Nick Noltisz(?) has been writing his anti-PAD blog for ages, why would anyone assume that his latest piece is impartial? He has never been impartial, sometimes even comical in his relentless attempts to paint two sides in Nick's designated colors.

There were reports of NO warnings given. Or at least those warnings didn't reach any of the journalists covering the story.

Same predictable response from a PAD ideologue.Don't like the message.Blame the messenger.

[Plus]

YH, don't be naive. Where have you been in the past ten-twenty years? Ever heard of a word "spin"?

The "messenger" in this case creates the message. Nick himself goes out with his camera and he himself selects and edits the pictures and he himself writes a commentary.

And I don't see any extraordinary angles, either. All these pix have been posted here already, it's the same people, same injuries, same events. It's his comments that turn everything around, like they did in his previous blog entries, and some of them were truly god awful, like when he showed a pic that looked like a snapshot form a bad Thai movie, featuring a mafia boss hugging with his henchmen, complete with ridiculous sunglasses, and calls it "poor masses rising against tyranny of elites" or some such shit.

[KireB]

There's a good account of what happened on October 7th by a Western news photograher here. Plenty of photos too.

Fantastic eyewitness reporting. If only Thais could see reports like this!

First class piece of factual reporting.

In particular, it lays to rest that so often repeated lie of PAD's - "there was no warning given". If you read on to the comments after the main piece, you'll see that someone has already reported that that the warnings given by the police were strangely not mentioned in the Thai press, makes me think that a lot of PAD's supporters here just swallow as gospel anything they read in the Nation, etc., and perhaps some of them that claimed they were at the front-line wereactually propping up the bar!

Amazing how the dozens and dozens of international reporters and journalists in addition to the many local reporters all missed these warnings... and that Somchai's own government is setting up an independent commission to look into this and other non-international standard police tactics used...and that plenty of non-PAD people are condemning these tactics... but the intrepid blogger Nick didn't miss these warnings... the scoop of the year and it's sitting idly on a blog site with 8 replies...

Exactly, and our 'neutral' blogger must be well versed in the Thai language. I dont think the warnings were in English.

Anyway, its beyond me that so many people blindly believe what someone places on the web.

[younghusband]

YH, don't be naive. Where have you been in the past ten-twenty years? Ever heard of a word "spin"?

The "messenger" in this case creates the message. Nick himself goes out with his camera and he himself selects and edits the pictures and he himself writes a commentary.

And I don't see any extraordinary angles, either. All these pix have been posted here already, it's the same people, same injuries, same events. It's his comments that turn everything around, like they did in his previous blog entries, and some of them were truly god awful, like when he showed a pic that looked like a snapshot form a bad Thai movie, featuring a mafia boss hugging with his henchmen, complete with ridiculous sunglasses, and calls it "poor masses rising against tyranny of elites" or some such shit.

There's nothing wrong with a point of view but I think in this case it's not really fair to call it spin.I think it would be better of course if more bloggers (in non ranting mode) were around.I would genuinely love to see a blogger broadly sympathetic to PAD but measured and reasonable in approach commenting at the moment.I tried to explain to SRJ -although of course he won't listen -that it's so much more effective to be cool and calm, conceding a point from time to time, than insisting on a monopoly of truth.I've always recognised there's a case to be made for New Politics but to be compelling it has to be made convincingly.

A point of agreement.I share your distate for using "task" as a verb.Ditto "transition".

[Bangyai]

YH, don't be naive. Where have you been in the past ten-twenty years? Ever heard of a word "spin"?

The "messenger" in this case creates the message. Nick himself goes out with his camera and he himself selects and edits the pictures and he himself writes a commentary.

And I don't see any extraordinary angles, either. All these pix have been posted here already, it's the same people, same injuries, same events. It's his comments that turn everything around, like they did in his previous blog entries, and some of them were truly god awful, like when he showed a pic that looked like a snapshot form a bad Thai movie, featuring a mafia boss hugging with his henchmen, complete with ridiculous sunglasses, and calls it "poor masses rising against tyranny of elites" or some such shit.

Anybody who has ever watched ASTV even for 5 minutes will know what ' spin ' is. They have got it down to a fine art.

[frodo]

YH, don't be naive. Where have you been in the past ten-twenty years? Ever heard of a word "spin"?

The "messenger" in this case creates the message. Nick himself goes out with his camera and he himself selects and edits the pictures and he himself writes a commentary.

And I don't see any extraordinary angles, either. All these pix have been posted here already, it's the same people, same injuries, same events. It's his comments that turn everything around, like they did in his previous blog entries, and some of them were truly god awful, like when he showed a pic that looked like a snapshot form a bad Thai movie, featuring a mafia boss hugging with his henchmen, complete with ridiculous sunglasses, and calls it "poor masses rising against tyranny of elites" or some such shit.

I do have to agree with Plus, regarding "spin." I have read some of Nick's other posts on the website provided by Camerta. I have noticed a very one-sided view in regards to the UDD and PAD. It is very obvious from his writings he is pro-UDD, which is fine. Some of his blogs include the Udon clashes where he describes UDD as a smaller group of peaceful Bangkokians, and PAD as being violent and confrontational (http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/07/31/pad-ready-for-violence/). I did notice that in regards to the actual attack on the PAD protestors by the UDD, he had nothing to say at all, which is strange considering he seems to be writing or commenting about other protests. (http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/07/26/thuggery-and-madness/). The attack on Prem's residence from the UDD was downplayed, and in many instances he referred to them as being a very "controlled" group, and portrays the UDD as innocent victims.

As far as Nick being trustworthy in his journalism, he is very partial in what he decides to write about. Not good journalism at all and I take what he writes with a grain of salt.

[Bangyai]

Salang's assault plan rejected

Pro-government figures yesterday rejected the use of force to seize back Government House from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

IMO, promoting more confrontation and violence can only lead to more useless injuries and deaths. Even if the protesters were ousted it would solve nothing. They would just reassemble elsewhere. Personaly, I think a national referendum on whether the govournment should step down or not would be the fairest solution to the current crisis. If the govournment were given the peoples support to continue then the PAD should agree to leave govournment house and restrict further protests to places where there presence would not be an inconvenience to ordinary people trying to go about their business.

Unfortunatley , the PAD have shown little enthusiasm for the idea of a referendum.

[younghusband]

YH, don't be naive. Where have you been in the past ten-twenty years? Ever heard of a word "spin"?

The "messenger" in this case creates the message. Nick himself goes out with his camera and he himself selects and edits the pictures and he himself writes a commentary.

And I don't see any extraordinary angles, either. All these pix have been posted here already, it's the same people, same injuries, same events. It's his comments that turn everything around, like they did in his previous blog entries, and some of them were truly god awful, like when he showed a pic that looked like a snapshot form a bad Thai movie, featuring a mafia boss hugging with his henchmen, complete with ridiculous sunglasses, and calls it "poor masses rising against tyranny of elites" or some such shit.

I do have to agree with Plus, regarding "spin." I have read some of Nick's other posts on the website provided by Camerta. I have noticed a very one-sided view in regards to the UDD and PAD. It is very obvious from his writings he is pro-UDD, which is fine. Some of his blogs include the Udon clashes where he describes UDD as a smaller group of peaceful Bangkokians, and PAD as being violent and confrontational (http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/07/31/pad-ready-for-violence/). I did notice that in regards to the actual attack on the PAD protestors by the UDD, he had nothing to say at all, which is strange considering he seems to be writing or commenting about other protests. (http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/07/26/thuggery-and-madness/). The attack on Prem's residence from the UDD was downplayed, and in many instances he referred to them as being a very "controlled" group, and portrays the UDD as innocent victims.

As far as Nick being trustworthy in his journalism, he is very partial in what he decides to write about. Not good journalism at all and I take what he writes with a grain of salt.

But your own posts on Thai Visa show you to be a most partisan PAD zealot as with others who have such strong opinions on Nick's blogging.I don't have any issues with that but spare us the lectures on "not good journalism".As George Orwell once commented the left wing coterie who dominated London literary life in the late 1940's tended to criticise him for his writing style rather than his anti-Stalinist message.

[geriatrickid]

Non-emergency work is not mandatory. No doctor MUST take every patient that shows up.Emergency work yes, if severe or life threatening.They are within their rights. You may not like that.But if they refused PAD members for the same reasons

several here would applaud LOUDLY.I can feel the flames gathering now.

Wrong. Very wrong. The issue was addressed 40 years ago during the communist insurgencies and the position adopted was that medical care should not be denied.

This isn't an issue of accepting an outpatient, but is one of overt discrimination. Almost all civilized countries use the same language in their respective code of ethics. As well, if any of the implicated physicians hold licenses outside of Thailand they have probably violated their respective order or college code of ethics. For example, The American College of Physicians' Ethics Manual states that "A physician may not discriminate against a class or category of patients. I was told that similar language is used in Thailand. (I'd check but my Thai reading skills are poor )

Guess what? The medical associations in almost every EU member nation, Aus, NZ, UK, CDA have similar language. For example, Principle VI of the The American Medical Association, which borrows from the BMA, does not recognize political disagreements as suitable grounds for the denial of care. Simply put, a physician's personal or sociopolitical prejudices are not grounds for the denial of care. The Thai medical code of ethics is supposed to express the same sentiments. That is why there were some very fast statements made by Thailand's hospitals and senior medical officials to distance themselves from the statements made by some diploma holders.

Here's the definitive position;

The depth of the surgeon's passion does not confer ethical authorization upon unethical action. Indeed, refusal to treat a patient is vicious, not virtuous...............

Deliberate deprivation of "a third and innocent party" in order to apply pressure on someone else is a bizarre ethic indeed," because it treats the patient only as a means to an end that cannot be supported by appeals to either professional or individual conscience. When we encounter variations on this sort of behavior in the daily news we call it "terrorism."

Ethics of refusal to treat patients as a social statement - James W. Jones MD, PhD, MHA , Laurence B. McCullough PhD and Bruce W. Richman MA / The Center for Health Policy and Medical Ethics, Baylor College of Medicine Department of Psychiatry, University of Missouri

[Ricardo]

YH, don't be naive. Where have you been in the past ten-twenty years? Ever heard of a word "spin"?

The "messenger" in this case creates the message. Nick himself goes out with his camera and he himself selects and edits the pictures and he himself writes a commentary.

And I don't see any extraordinary angles, either. All these pix have been posted here already, it's the same people, same injuries, same events. It's his comments that turn everything around, like they did in his previous blog entries, and some of them were truly god awful, like when he showed a pic that looked like a snapshot form a bad Thai movie, featuring a mafia boss hugging with his henchmen, complete with ridiculous sunglasses, and calls it "poor masses rising against tyranny of elites" or some such shit.

Anybody who has ever watched ASTV even for 5 minutes will know what ' spin ' is. They have got it down to a fine art.

Agreed, ASTV is showing one side, the government-controlled NBS another equally biased one. IMO this is actually an improvement, on the situation in the later days of TRT, when only one point-of-view was allowed. Cable-channel closures, advertising boycotts or billion-baht law-suits, were used to enforce the offical line in those days !

I think you have to accept, there will be spin, and therefore it is even more important to ensure that all flavours of spin are available !

I thought it was interesting, that Nick Nostitz spotted someone known to him as "a friend of mine - a Special Branch Agent under cover with the PAD" at the scene. This rather suggests that the PAD are not being paranoid, when they claim, there are non-PAD-supporters infiltrated amongst them.

[Crushdepth]

Try going down to your local hospital without medical insurance or cash in your wallet. Will they treat you? Spare me the lectures about morality and the medical system!

[frodo]

YH, don't be naive. Where have you been in the past ten-twenty years? Ever heard of a word "spin"?

The "messenger" in this case creates the message. Nick himself goes out with his camera and he himself selects and edits the pictures and he himself writes a commentary.

And I don't see any extraordinary angles, either. All these pix have been posted here already, it's the same people, same injuries, same events. It's his comments that turn everything around, like they did in his previous blog entries, and some of them were truly god awful, like when he showed a pic that looked like a snapshot form a bad Thai movie, featuring a mafia boss hugging with his henchmen, complete with ridiculous sunglasses, and calls it "poor masses rising against tyranny of elites" or some such shit.

I do have to agree with Plus, regarding "spin." I have read some of Nick's other posts on the website provided by Camerta. I have noticed a very one-sided view in regards to the UDD and PAD. It is very obvious from his writings he is pro-UDD, which is fine. Some of his blogs include the Udon clashes where he describes UDD as a smaller group of peaceful Bangkokians, and PAD as being violent and confrontational (http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/07/31/pad-ready-for-violence/). I did notice that in regards to the actual attack on the PAD protestors by the UDD, he had nothing to say at all, which is strange considering he seems to be writing or commenting about other protests. (http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/07/26/thuggery-and-madness/). The attack on Prem's residence from the UDD was downplayed, and in many instances he referred to them as being a very "controlled" group, and portrays the UDD as innocent victims.

As far as Nick being trustworthy in his journalism, he is very partial in what he decides to write about. Not good journalism at all and I take what he writes with a grain of salt.

But your own posts on Thai Visa show you to be a most partisan PAD zealot as with others who have such strong opinions on Nick's blogging.I don't have any issues with that but spare us the lectures on "not good journalism".As George Orwell once commented the left wing coterie who dominated London literary life in the late 1940's tended to criticise him for his writing style rather than his anti-Stalinist message.

First, I never claimed to be a journalist, and I can decide for myself what is and what is not good journalism. Second, please show me anywhere on TV where I have claimed I am a "partisan PAD zealot." I bet you can't, but I have never made that claim. Do I support PAD's overtaking of government house? No, I don't. Do I agree the riots last week were handled in am improper way? Yes. Regarding the medical situation, while many others on the forum were jumping up and down screaming about the lack of professionalism by doctors, I merely pointed out by comparison, that it was a two way street, and the police were just as guilty for not allowing medical personal to treat or transport patients. As expected, not to many people really cared about that. I have countered this current governments claim that no police offficer had any lethal weapon by providing pictures that they are not being honest in what they say. There is a huge difference between countering misstatements and false claims and saying I support one group or the other.

[wrecker]

Dear mister Somchai is showing his true face very fast. He asks for peace with one hand and with the other hand he commits violence. Shows what kind of a person he is.

Waerth

You mean that you are from another planet than most of us are? You are from the planet, which featured, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot and other great individuals who thought that a parliament was not need needed. The same kind of people like you who find it quite okay that elected representatives are not allowed to gather, because it was elected by 70% of the voters. The true face of PAD is a system were they can keep on going steeling form the poor, where chulalongkorn is 100% reserved for the rich and where a patron system is doing the trick? People like Sonthi have had their portion when they robbed the country through their strategic Non performing Loans, The Chinese (90% of the protestors are Chinese) could opt to go back to their motherland if they do not like te fact that REAL Thai people get what are really theirs. But I suppose we have to wait till one certain councilor who ruled the country for 8 years as UNELECTED prime minister is gone. Well that would not be too long anymore.

The bombs planted two years ago on new Years Eve where the very same bombs who destroyed a car. the very same bombs who ripped of limbs from the protestors. Not low grade tear gas grenades caused the wounds. I have served in many bad places on earth and all bomb makers, especially the ones without experiences ALL suffer the same faith and wounds. Going short SOM NAM NAA, and the government should end it for once an for all by using all the force possible, in order to let the protestors adhere to democratic principles. They can form a party, and stand for elections in a few months or years. I understand they do not like that idea, because they will not even gain 1% of the Votes. Chamlong knows this, as he already was decimated after the last time that he was prime minister. Chamlong is a nasty person, who caused the country immense demage. First in 1977, than in 1992, again in 2006 and now again. He shows his real face over and over again. But also here is a silver lining, Thaksin, his children, the rural young they will all still be very much alive and kicking when he has gone a long time. That must hurt him and his movement especially when they realize that the mass have been woken by Thaksin.