Another Couple Of Farang Motorcycle Deaths!

[Rasseru]

i find one of the potentially fatal hazards to any newbie farangs in Thailand on the roads is, when you are waiting in the middle of the road at a U turn and you see the cars coming towards you flashing their headlights lights..

Do not think, 'ok.. i can go' - as anyone new, particularly from the UK, would automatically think..

the courteous blink blink.. go on mate.. means quite the opposite here. . . .

It means the same here as it does in the highway code in uk ,people just do not read the highway code in the uk.

Your point being that it doesn't officially mean anything if I recall . . .

Now I am curious. I understood Patriciachas to mean that it has a specific meaning set forth in the 'highway code in the uk' (which I do not know, but take to be a legal code of rules applicable to highway use in the U.K.), and a meaning that is opposite to the one that drivers in fact use in practice, not, as Greenside suggests, that 'it doesn't officially mean anything'. It would be interesting if the British driving public in fact drive around following a practice that is at direct odds with what the legal code specifies. So, what's the story here?

[Rasseru]

Thanks for posting about gpdjohn, bunta71. I have not met him off the forum, but I know him here and like him. . .

I've now met him in person, and like him even more.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think the main point is not riding a bike. And not operating a vehicle while drunk.

[Rasseru]

I think the main point is not riding a bike. And not operating a vehicle while drunk.

Agree wholeheartedly with your second point, but would modify your first with the words 'unless you really, really know what you are doing'.

Of course, the truly sensible approach -- albeit an impractical one -- would be not to operate or ride in any vehicle at all, ever. Anything short of that is just weighing and accepting the different risks necessarily involved in operating and riding in vehicles of all kinds.

[Priceless]

I think the question about going "blink-blink" is rather interesting

In the UK, if I've understood things correctly, you have two alternatives:

1/ "Blink-blink", meaning "I've seen you and intend to let you pass in front of me".

2/ Not "blink-blink", meaning either "I've not seen you" or "I've seen you but intend to hit you if you try to pass in front of me".

The cautious/sensible driver will only pass if he gets a "blink-blink".

In Thailand you have two alternatives as well:

1/ "Blink-blink", meaning "I've seen you but intend to hit you if you try to pass in front of me".

2/ Not "blink-blink", meaning either "I've not seen you" or "I've seen you and intend to let you pass in front of me".

What does the cautious/sensible driver do here?

For some reason I'm reminded of the not uncommon use of four-way flashing indicators, meaning "I intend to go straight ahead"

/ Priceless

[Rasseru]

The blink-blink story prompts me to tell another one. This is something I love. In Japan, when a driver pulls into a lane ahead of another driver and the distance between them is rather close, the custom, which is nearly universally followed, is for the first driver to flash his or her hazard lights two times to the second driver. The meaning is a combination of 'pardon me' and 'thank you', with the emphasis on the latter if there is any sense of the second driver having slowed down to allow the first driver to enter. This custom is said to have started among long-distance truck drivers in the Kansai area, but has since spread to the point where it is almost universal.

[Greenside]

The blink-blink story prompts me to tell another one. This is something I love. In Japan, when a driver pulls into a lane ahead of another driver and the distance between them is rather close, the custom, which is nearly universally followed, is for the first driver to flash his or her hazard lights two times to the second driver. The meaning is a combination of 'pardon me' and 'thank you', with the emphasis on the latter if there is any sense of the second driver having slowed down to allow the first driver to enter. This custom is said to have started among long-distance truck drivers in the Kansai area, but has since spread to the point where it is almost universal.

That code was also used by truck drivers in the UK in a fairly similar way. The vehicle being overtaken would flash its headlights to indicate to the truck overtaking it that it was far enough in front (usually about 9 - 10 inches) to pull in. The truck now in front would either do a couple of flashes of the hazard lights or one each side of the indicators to thank the driver of the vehicle behind.

[dingdongrb]

The blink-blink story prompts me to tell another one. This is something I love. In Japan, when a driver pulls into a lane ahead of another driver and the distance between them is rather close, the custom, which is nearly universally followed, is for the first driver to flash his or her hazard lights two times to the second driver. The meaning is a combination of 'pardon me' and 'thank you', with the emphasis on the latter if there is any sense of the second driver having slowed down to allow the first driver to enter. This custom is said to have started among long-distance truck drivers in the Kansai area, but has since spread to the point where it is almost universal.

That code was also used by truck drivers in the UK in a fairly similar way. The vehicle being overtaken would flash its headlights to indicate to the truck overtaking it that it was far enough in front (usually about 9 - 10 inches) to pull in. The truck now in front would either do a couple of flashes of the hazard lights or one each side of the indicators to thank the driver of the vehicle behind.

I think that this is universal for most countries with the trucking industry as they do the same in the USA. The truckers in the USA seems to be very courteous to others within their own industry, but actually frown upon most automobile drivers.

[Rasseru]

The blink-blink story prompts me to tell another one. This is something I love. In Japan, when a driver pulls into a lane ahead of another driver and the distance between them is rather close, the custom, which is nearly universally followed, is for the first driver to flash his or her hazard lights two times to the second driver. The meaning is a combination of 'pardon me' and 'thank you', with the emphasis on the latter if there is any sense of the second driver having slowed down to allow the first driver to enter. This custom is said to have started among long-distance truck drivers in the Kansai area, but has since spread to the point where it is almost universal.

That code was also used by truck drivers in the UK in a fairly similar way. The vehicle being overtaken would flash its headlights to indicate to the truck overtaking it that it was far enough in front (usually about 9 - 10 inches) to pull in. The truck now in front would either do a couple of flashes of the hazard lights or one each side of the indicators to thank the driver of the vehicle behind.

That's very interesting. Has the practice spread, as it has in Japan, from truck drivers to drivers of cars? Same question for dingdongrb, who reported on the similar practice among truck drivers in the United States.

[sylviex]

This happens in Australia, too (blink before overtaking). I am not sure it's always very polite, though -- sometimes more like a warning from an impatient driver.

In country areas, where you can drive for hours without seeing another vehicle, the blink from someone travelling in the opposite direction means "hello", sometimes accompanied by a half-wave (without lifting hand from wheel). People unfamiliar with this practice find it quite baffling, and indeed, there can sometimes be other meanings, such as that you are driving with your coat caught in the car door or one of your tyres may have a leak. And then there's the Great Australian Salute (waving the flies from the eyes) which can prompt responding waves from strangers.

However, I don't wish to be flippant. I really found this thread very saddening. Commiserations and condolences to all involved.

I hope GDPJohn is doing OK. (How about the lung ?). I don't know him, but please pass my best wishes to him.

Edited October 13, 2008 by sylviex

[harrry]

When I had my accident I was wearing a reasonable helmet and it worked. I was upset though that they cut off my brand new motorcycle jacket that everyone thought was overkill on a moped. Well news for them without it I would have been dead,not just a broken arm and an amputated leg. Pity I could'nt afford the motorcycle pants to go with the jacket. Seriously a fairly cheap helmet will probably keep your head together unless you are going too fast but thongs and shorts are not recommended wear.

[dingdongrb]

The blink-blink story prompts me to tell another one. This is something I love. In Japan, when a driver pulls into a lane ahead of another driver and the distance between them is rather close, the custom, which is nearly universally followed, is for the first driver to flash his or her hazard lights two times to the second driver. The meaning is a combination of 'pardon me' and 'thank you', with the emphasis on the latter if there is any sense of the second driver having slowed down to allow the first driver to enter. This custom is said to have started among long-distance truck drivers in the Kansai area, but has since spread to the point where it is almost universal.

That code was also used by truck drivers in the UK in a fairly similar way. The vehicle being overtaken would flash its headlights to indicate to the truck overtaking it that it was far enough in front (usually about 9 - 10 inches) to pull in. The truck now in front would either do a couple of flashes of the hazard lights or one each side of the indicators to thank the driver of the vehicle behind.

That's very interesting. Has the practice spread, as it has in Japan, from truck drivers to drivers of cars? Same question for dingdongrb, who reported on the similar practice among truck drivers in the United States.

Since I haven't been living in the USA for the past 3+ years I really cannot say if the auto drivers have started practicing this. I do know like others have posted on here that in the USA when someone 'flashes' you it is usually meant:

a) It's okay for you to go ahead of me.

There's a cop back that way and he is looking for speeders.

c) Hey stupid you're driving with your high beams on.

As for truckers 'flashing' when another is passing they usually just flashed their trailer lights on and off, but sometimes it could be the headlights as well.

[john b good]

"blink blink"

Anyone who takes any action manouevre based on someone "blink blinking" them is an idiot.

The only place where I would be confident in the supposed advice of others would be in "formula 1"

If taking an overtaking manouevre based on the guy in front blinking one of his turning indicator lights you are asking for trouble and a lot of pain or your own death.

Has anyone in Thailand ever heard of defensive driving? I think not!

You act on your own observations.

[Gravelrash]

Driving a car or riding a motorcycle here is inherently dangerous. In all honesty there are no shortage of stupid drivers at home, but here it is something else. Anyone that has the funds to purchase can be on the road immediately with no training, testing and no skill in handling a vehicle. Plus of course no awareness (or interest) whatsoever for other vehicles on the road. It is a matter of people pushing and shoving all over the place. Nationalistic Thais call it it "Thai Style" but an honest appraisal would be anarchy. You do adjust to it, but always have to be 100% alert.

And most cars, buses, trucks etc give no thought to bikes whatsoever, you are on your own baby.

With all that said, of course it is survivable. I rode dirt bikes from 16 which I personally think is an excellent grounding. At about 19 I bought my first road bike and rode for many years until eventually staying with a car.

I drove cars here for many many years but never rode a bike. I actually used my g/f's a few times and got the bug back (some will know what I mean). Usually I just know when a vehicle is going to do something stupid and anticipate it, driving here for many years seems to have helped that more. I never ride drunk, and as a rule do not ride fast. I have a baby 400 choppery thing which also doesn't encourage riding fast. It'd gutless compared to my last bike at home.

I have a cheap Thai open faced helmet as I prefer them in the heat. I am also putting my bike in next week to rebuild the brakes after reading the terrible sad stories of deaths on motorcycles here.

Not sure where I am going with this, but just take it easy, there is no rush, and never ride drunk. You don't ride better, it is just that your level of fear has dropped, and that is never a good thing on a bike, as that is what keeps you alert and checks your speed (except 18 yo's).

Again, so sorry to hear about the losses of friends and as consequent their families sufferring.

[Mapguy]

The blink-blink story prompts me to tell another one. This is something I love. In Japan, when a driver pulls into a lane ahead of another driver and the distance between them is rather close, the custom, which is nearly universally followed, is for the first driver to flash his or her hazard lights two times to the second driver. The meaning is a combination of 'pardon me' and 'thank you', with the emphasis on the latter if there is any sense of the second driver having slowed down to allow the first driver to enter. This custom is said to have started among long-distance truck drivers in the Kansai area, but has since spread to the point where it is almost universal.

Similar to trucking etiquette in the USA. The full-lights treatment means thanks.

[Blinky Bill]

John is recovering, that's good. Andrew's dead, that's sad.

Look out folks! Whatever you waffle on about here, ie. driving drunk, helmets, flashing lights (wow), etc., isn't going to stop the next TV member or friend of a TV member getting creamed through someone's stupidity. Life goes on for most....but not all.

[eek]

Oh, I have only read this thread now.

Deepest condolences.

I often think about wanting to ride a scooter, or ride my bicycle further out, but then information like this causes me to re-think. Im hesitant to get a car, but I know one cant worry about what may or may not happen. Its just very very sad and frustrating how one slip, one error of judgment, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time can change your fate forever.

I wish John the best for his recovery.

[Pantip]

John is recovering, that's good. Andrew's dead, that's sad.

Look out folks! Whatever you waffle on about here, ie. driving drunk, helmets, flashing lights (wow), etc., isn't going to stop the next TV member or friend of a TV member getting creamed through someone's stupidity. Life goes on for most....but not all.

Couldn’t agree with you more. We all know that motorbike riders have a 63% increased chance of shooting through to the other side compared to car drivers. It’s a calculated risk.

[anthrosciguy]

Not safe at all, true...when motorists use left signal light I always assume they'll turn right, call me paranoid but that's the way I am especialy when riding a bike.

This is the single best piece of advice for motorcycle riders to learn. I learned it many years ago when I started. Always assume that no one sees you, even if they look directly at you, even if they react after looking directly at you. Frankly, in Thailand because there are so many motorcycles people are more used to them and do a better job in many ways of dealing with bikes (than North America, for instance) but it's still not something you should ever take for granted.

[unomi]

Over the last month or so I have been riding a bicycle around Bangkok.

I have been riding motorcycles in Thailand for many years.

First I reasoned that drivers of cars inconsideration of motorcycles had to do with the fact that many Thais are almost literally born on motorcycles and are adept to the point of what could be taken as prescience.

So basically the assumption is that no consideration has to be taken; they know what they are doing.

Interestingly there is even less consideration given to bicycles; the truth is that right of way are based on who will get hurt most in a collision.

Its quite funny when you compare to a country like Denmark where it is similar but opposite.

[Loaded]

And one of the most dangerous places a pedestrian can cross a road is a pedestrian crossing. I now feel it's better for me to shoot through if I see someone waiting because the many times I've stopped my car to allow someone to cross either another car or a motorbike decides they aren't going to stop and drives right through as the pedestrian, now blind-sided by my vehicle, attemps to cross.

[gpdjohn]

I am now at home.

I am very saddened by the loss of life that occured on the same evening. I can only wonder on why I was spared and others were taken.

Thank you for the well wishes and the visits at the hospital. I mean that.

Was I stupid? Yeah, I was.

Did I take a stupid risk? Yeah, I did.

Was I told by other's to avoid this risk?

Yep, sure was.

" John, you are a stubborn hardhead and you only seem to learn the hard way.."

I quote my father.

I was alone. I was wearing a lid.

I wish I could remember what happened, that part is gone.

I impacted something on the lower right hand side of my vespa, lower right at wheel level.

Must have tossed me down the street...

Don't know.

I, once again, cheated death ( many times before this one, some closer, others not so close..)

I'm not bragging or saying this in a proud way...

It's been how I have lived my life since I was 17.

Life is a challenge and meant to be lived, and I have by far done that.

Have I learned my lesson?

In American slang.....Phukin A I have!

I thank Buddha every day for my life, my family and my friends.

I owe them so much.

I want to stick around and pay them back.

It's time for me to stop acting like I'm still a 20 year old paratrooper.

To start living as a grown up man.

[jdinasia]

Glad you are home and alive!

[harrry]

It's time for me to stop acting like I'm still a 20 year old paratrooper.

To start living as a grown up man.

As long as you don't stop living because of it. No need to wrap yourself in cotton wool.

Maybe someone else can learn from this but it is the kind of thing you have to learn yourself really.

[Rasseru]

I am now at home.

. . . . .

Have I learned my lesson?

In American slang.....Phukin A I have!

. . . . .

It's time for me to stop acting like I'm still a 20 year old paratrooper.

To start living as a grown up man.

Excellent! And in that case, now for the important question: Waddya want fer the Vespa?

[mcgriffith]

Glad you're home in one piece, gpd!

Keep the shiny side up, my friend....

[Blinky Bill]

It's time for me to stop acting like I'm still a 20 year old paratrooper.

To start living as a grown up man.

Don't do that John. You'll die of boredom.

Just had another weird thought........I envy all the nice posts you've received regarding your injury/pending dying. Had I been on the slab I'm sure there'd be pages of posts saying "Thank the Lord, he's gone".

Edited October 16, 2008 by Blinky Bill

[jackr]

It's time for me to stop acting like I'm still a 20 year old paratrooper.

To start living as a grown up man.

Good lad, but don't stop drinking

[Rasseru]

Just had another weird thought........I envy all the nice posts you've received regarding your injury/pending dying. Had I been on the slab I'm sure there'd be pages of posts saying "Thank the Lord, he's gone".

'Pages' of posts? Such an egoist you are!

[bergen]

Good to see you're back gpdjohn

You might want to add a wheel or two for future driving.............