Cambodia Threatens War With Thailand Within 24 Hours

[jfchandler]

Hey...you guys are getting really picky here....

So we aim at Kuwait and hit Iraq.... So we aim at Afghanistan and hit Pakistan.... Stuff like that. Happens all the time to the best of us...

Not really much difference there... Just a border and different country.... Easy to get lost in route....

[Payboy]

seen many people on internet showing off photos of polished rtac's F16s in their hangers..........

there's no doubt that they have superior fire power compared to the khmers....

and their f16 have been detailed at meguiars this week, but when it comes to war the siamese are the french of asia....

[mdechgan]

I wonder if this conflict could affect the deal to buy 12 Gripens or if it's already too late. I can't imagine the Swedes would be very happy with Thailand using their shiny new jets to beat up on tiny Cambodia.

The six Gripens weren't to be delivered until 2011. 4 are single seaters 2 are double seaters, possibly trainers. They have an option of buying another 6 in 2013. These are to replace old F5s staioned in Surat. I think 7th wing.

I always thought they would buy more F-16s but I guess Thailand got a good deal from Sweden.

Maybe the Gripens are a better plane.

However it doesn't matter how new or expensive a jet is, all it takes is one SAM missle if Cambodia has any.

[LongThaimer]

Hey...you guys are getting really picky here....

So we aim at Kuwait and hit Iraq.... So we aim at Afghanistan and hit Pakistan.... Stuff like that. Happens all the time to the best of us...

Not really much difference there... Just a border and different country.... Easy to get lost in route....

air strikes if ever comes will most likely concentrated around the temple..........because that is where the cambodians are dugged in.........you aimed at the cambodians and you hit the 700 yrs. old temple......now that would be shooting at your own foot.........

[gazza2498]

This is just a pretty blatant way to promote nationalism and break the will of the PAD.

You may not have been aware that the three trespassers in July into Phreah Viharn after the border closed are Asoke temple members the parent group of PAD? So how is it breaking the will of PAD? They started it for their own reasons at the time one of which is nationalism.

[LongThaimer]

seen many people on internet showing off photos of polished rtac's F16s in their hangers..........

there's no doubt that they have superior fire power compared to the khmers....

and their f16 have been detailed at meguiars this week, but when it comes to war the siamese are the french of asia....

spot on....

[Plus]

The war talk is over, while we may argue the nationalism, it was Hun Sen who started it and Hun Sen who finished it, and he's not even counting the military losses, the war itself was not his goal at all.

Theoretically Thais can easily occupy the disputed land and it would very difficult for Cambodians to retake it as Thais will have artillery postions at the top of the hillside that will have clear shots at anything Cambodians bring in the area. It would simply be impossible to dislodge them with ground troops only.

I don't believe people suggest that Cambodians can use the temple itself as their forepost, that is simply unthinkable.

[jts-khorat]

The war talk is over, while we may argue the nationalism, it was Hun Sen who started it and Hun Sen who finished it, and he's not even counting the military losses, the war itself was not his goal at all.

Theoretically Thais can easily occupy the disputed land and it would very difficult for Cambodians to retake it as Thais will have artillery postions at the top of the hillside that will have clear shots at anything Cambodians bring in the area. It would simply be impossible to dislodge them with ground troops only.

I don't believe people suggest that Cambodians can use the temple itself as their forepost, that is simply unthinkable.

The Khmer Rouge did, and were successful with it.

As the Thais decided that they rather would not wish to have a political solution involving a third international party, what else was there to do for the Cambodians?

I am assuming you hear some of the rhetoric that the PAD is spewing out on the temple complex, even being able to force the foreign minister to resign over this issue (and now calling for open war). Now is the last moment that the Cambodians can force their right.

[sriracha john]

the foreign minister to resign over this issue

which one? we've had 5 this year...

[Plus]

If Cambodians decided to fight there war from the temple ruins, they don't deserve to have in the first place. That would be the worst barbaric behaviour imaginable.

[bangkokrick]

If Cambodians decided to fight there war from the temple ruins, they don't deserve to have in the first place. That would be the worst barbaric behaviour imaginable.

Well the khmer Rouge apparently did and the old artillery weapons are pointing towards Thailand. I posted a picture in a previous post.

Cheers, Rick

[Plus]

Would you let Khmer Rouge manage a world heritage site?

[bangkokrick]

Bergen I believe the national park is still full of uncleared mines. That would slow down any Khmer attempts to come in around the sides.

Here is a sign from the temple grounds. I froze when i saw this because i had never been in a mined area before. There are many signs around the temple area.

You may have to enlarge to read the words on the sign.

Cheers, Rick

[bangkokrick]

Would you let Khmer Rouge manage a world heritage site?

I certainly would not but they did occupy that area in the past. Only trying to add to the debate.

Cheers, Rick

[animatic]

I wonder if this conflict could affect the deal to buy 12 Gripens or if it's already too late. I can't imagine the Swedes would be very happy with Thailand using their shiny new jets to beat up on tiny Cambodia.

The six Gripens weren't to be delivered until 2011. 4 are single seaters 2 are double seaters, possibly trainers. They have an option of buying another 6 in 2013. These are to replace old F5s staioned in Surat. I think 7th wing.

I always thought they would buy more F-16s but I guess Thailand got a good deal from Sweden.

Maybe the Gripens are a better plane.

However it doesn't matter how new or expensive a jet is, all it takes is one SAM missle if Cambodia has any.

I think USA wanted JUST dollars, but the Swedes were happy with 40% chicken parts.

[Foggy Bottom]

If Cambodians decided to fight there war from the temple ruins, they don't deserve to have in the first place. That would be the worst barbaric behaviour imaginable.

Well the khmer Rouge apparently did and the old artillery weapons are pointing towards Thailand. I posted a picture in a previous post.

Cheers, Rick

If they did, it would be no different to Allied and Axis units using medieval church towers as OP's and sniper nests during WW2

.... The consequences of which is brought home graphically in the closing battle in the movie "Saving Private Ryan"

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?

(and Yes! I would also be indignant if it happened)

.

[CuriousGeorge77]

seen many people on internet showing off photos of polished rtac's F16s in their hangers..........

when it comes to war the siamese are the french of asia....

spot on....

That's a tough sell... Thailand was the only country in Asia never to be colonized, save Japan. n They haven't won everything, but they've some pretty impressive wins, too. Rama 5 had gotten the Thai empire pretty powerful, expanding the borders on al sides, even controlling parts of China. The Thais were also the only country in SE Asia to attack anyone outside of SE Asia (Sri Lanka) ... Although technically speaking they weren't Thai quite yet ... the Country currently known as Nakhon Sri Thammarat attacked Sri Lanka, but were shown the door when many of the Tamils they hired turned on them on the battlefield, so weakening the country that it accepted membership into Siam.

Edited October 17, 2008 by CuriousGeorge77

[TAWP]

I wonder if this conflict could affect the deal to buy 12 Gripens or if it's already too late. I can't imagine the Swedes would be very happy with Thailand using their shiny new jets to beat up on tiny Cambodia.

The six Gripens weren't to be delivered until 2011. 4 are single seaters 2 are double seaters, possibly trainers. They have an option of buying another 6 in 2013. These are to replace old F5s staioned in Surat. I think 7th wing.

I always thought they would buy more F-16s but I guess Thailand got a good deal from Sweden.

Maybe the Gripens are a better plane.

However it doesn't matter how new or expensive a jet is, all it takes is one SAM missle if Cambodia has any.

I think USA wanted JUST dollars, but the Swedes were happy with 40% chicken parts.

Well, US was trying to sell older airplanes (F-16 and F-18) and if memory recalls they might have pitched the F-22 too, but with it's price-tag it could never come into consideration. The Gripen is built using a smaller body frame than for instance an F-16 and is in the next generation of aircrafts. It's also better suited for countries that doesn't rely on pure air superiority for their warfare, included with the fact that it can take off from a 800m long segment of an public tarmac road...

[Payboy]

Thailand was the only country in Asia never to be colonized

there's that old jolly again.....

but i dont think military prowess had anything to do with that...

Edited October 17, 2008 by Payboy

[LongThaimer]

seen many people on internet showing off photos of polished rtac's F16s in their hangers..........

when it comes to war the siamese are the french of asia....

spot on....

That's a tough sell... Thailand was the only country in Asia never to be colonized, save Japan. n They haven't won everything, but they've some pretty impressive wins, too. Rama 5 had gotten the Thai empire pretty powerful, expanding the borders on al sides, even controlling parts of China. The Thais were also the only country in SE Asia to attack anyone outside of SE Asia (Sri Lanka) ... Although technically speaking they weren't Thai quite yet ... the Country currently known as Nakhon Sri Thammarat attacked Sri Lanka, but were shown the door when many of the Tamils they hired turned on them on the battlefield, so weakening the country that it accepted membership into Siam.

was not colonized not because it had a mighty army to thwart the western powers but it was mainly due due to the fact that siam had became very war weary after many centuries of wars with her neighbours and particularly after getting painful punishings by the burmese which to this day is fed into school children like their version of the jews holocaust.......

anyhow subsequent rulers realized that wars were to be avoided at almost any cost..........check out how much concessions they had to make to the brits and the french to save itself from being colonized...............

as for the japanese.......instead of standing up to the agressors...........they let the japs cross it's territory to attack allies forces and it's neighbours.............they even decleared war on the americans and the brits .............

[LongThaimer]

seen many people on internet showing off photos of polished rtac's F16s in their hangers..........

when it comes to war the siamese are the french of asia....

spot on....

That's a tough sell... Thailand was the only country in Asia never to be colonized, save Japan. n They haven't won everything, but they've some pretty impressive wins, too. Rama 5 had gotten the Thai empire pretty powerful, expanding the borders on al sides, even controlling parts of China. The Thais were also the only country in SE Asia to attack anyone outside of SE Asia (Sri Lanka) ... Although technically speaking they weren't Thai quite yet ... the Country currently known as Nakhon Sri Thammarat attacked Sri Lanka, but were shown the door when many of the Tamils they hired turned on them on the battlefield, so weakening the country that it accepted membership into Siam.

was not colonized not because it had a mighty army to thwart the western powers but it was mainly due due to the fact that siam had became very war weary after many centuries of wars with her neighbours and particularly after getting painful punishings by the burmese which to this day is fed into school children like their version of the jews holocaust.......

anyhow subsequent rulers realized that wars were to be avoided at almost any cost..........check out how much concessions they had to make to the brits and the french to save itself from being colonized...............

as for the japanese.......instead of standing up to the agressors...........they let the japs cross it's territory to attack allies forces and it's neighbours.............they even decleared war on the americans and the brits .............

[AlKing]

seen many people on internet showing off photos of polished rtac's F16s in their hangers..........

when it comes to war the siamese are the french of asia....

spot on....

That's a tough sell... Thailand was the only country in Asia never to be colonized, save Japan. n They haven't won everything, but they've some pretty impressive wins, too. Rama 5 had gotten the Thai empire pretty powerful, expanding the borders on al sides, even controlling parts of China. The Thais were also the only country in SE Asia to attack anyone outside of SE Asia (Sri Lanka) ... Although technically speaking they weren't Thai quite yet ... the Country currently known as Nakhon Sri Thammarat attacked Sri Lanka, but were shown the door when many of the Tamils they hired turned on them on the battlefield, so weakening the country that it accepted membership into Siam.

was not colonized not because it had a mighty army to thwart the western powers but it was mainly due due to the fact that siam had became very war weary after many centuries of wars with her neighbours and particularly after getting painful punishings by the burmese which to this day is fed into school children like their version of the jews holocaust.......

anyhow subsequent rulers realized that wars were to be avoided at almost any cost..........check out how much concessions they had to make to the brits and the french to save itself from being colonized...............

as for the japanese.......instead of standing up to the agressors...........they let the japs cross it's territory to attack allies forces and it's neighbours.............they even decleared war on the americans and the brits .............

Couldn't agree more. Historically Siam is usually the weaker country, especially relative to Burma. Cannot remember how many time the Burmese has invaded Siam, rob their subject, burned the cities kill the men and bring home Siamese cute girls. There are only a handful account whereby The Siamese managed to defense for themselves. Not even sure if they have even tried to invade Burma before.

I know that many Siamese will be angry at me. But that's a fact.

[animatic]

Yes they did a deal with Japan, and weren't technically occupied,

but Japan had free run of the place, except for a resistance movement.

When the war ended and the inevitasble fall of another Thai government,

the resitance people got an upper hand, and were allowed to save face

and made a working deal with USA and UK which went on for quite sometime.

Basically right up through Viet Nam.

[Foggy Bottom]

Animatic -

Japan invaded Thailand at Prachuap Khiri Khan Airfield on December 8th 1941. The Thais defended strongly for 48 hours, despite being heavily outgunned, before their government capitulated without checking on progress of the battle. Had the airfield been reinforced from the Central Plains, Thailand could have held out allowing the Brits & Allies in Malaya and Singapore time to get organised (and distracting other Japanese landings further south) .... remember the Aussies had a full Army Corps midway between Sri Lanka and Singapore at the time.

(Disclosure - I had a 5-page article on this battle published in the UK, in March this year)

On the same date (8th) the Japanese also invaded at Pattani and Songkla as a co-ordination with landings at Khota Bharu that cumulatively deployed 75% of the forces they ultimately used to capture Malaya, then Singapore. No resistance within Thailand was given to these landings other than by the Punjab Brigade of the British 5th Indian Division that were despatched from Malaya (they got trounced and had to pull back into NW Malaya where they made a stand at Jitra.

(Disclosure - I've been commissioned to write a major series about the WW2 campaign for Malaya up to the eve of invading Singapore - the first 4 parts (9,000+ words) are submitted and accepted .... only another 27,000 words to go, research is done, it's all typing from here on in .... then I might do the book - maybe! .... IF I can get the "Tai Millennium" one (600AD-1600AD) completed first.)

[bergen]

Hey...you guys are getting really picky here....

So we aim at Kuwait and hit Iraq.... So we aim at Afghanistan and hit Pakistan.... Stuff like that. Happens all the time to the best of us...

Not really much difference there... Just a border and different country.... Easy to get lost in route....

air strikes if ever comes will most likely concentrated around the temple..........because that is where the cambodians are dugged in.........you aimed at the cambodians and you hit the 700 yrs. old temple......now that would be shooting at your own foot.........

To say the temple is 700 yrs. old is not correct

The construction of the temple complex started in 895.

It was built by 5 Khmer kings and finished approx. 300 years later, and it is 300 years older than Angkor Wat.

[bangkokrick]

Hey...you guys are getting really picky here....

So we aim at Kuwait and hit Iraq.... So we aim at Afghanistan and hit Pakistan.... Stuff like that. Happens all the time to the best of us...

Not really much difference there... Just a border and different country.... Easy to get lost in route....

air strikes if ever comes will most likely concentrated around the temple..........because that is where the cambodians are dugged in.........you aimed at the cambodians and you hit the 700 yrs. old temple......now that would be shooting at your own foot.........

To say the temple is 700 yrs. old is not correct

The construction of the temple complex started in 895.

It was built by 5 Khmer kings and finished approx. 300 years later, and it is 300 years older than Angkor Wat.

Most of the info that i have read on line states the temple is 900 years old?

Last week, UNESCO declared the temple a World Heritage Site, which reignited the dispute. In 1962, the International Court of Justice said that it belonged to Cambodia, but the dispute over who owns the 4.6 square kilometres where it stands has never died down. 900 years old, the temple belongs to Cambodian culture, and its style shows Hindu influences, like the more famous Angkor complex in northwestern Cambodia.

Asianews.

Cheers, Rick

[fidelio]

seen many people on internet showing off photos of polished rtac's F16s in their hangers..........

when it comes to war the siamese are the french of asia....

spot on....

That's a tough sell... Thailand was the only country in Asia never to be colonized, save Japan. n They haven't won everything, but they've some pretty impressive wins, too. Rama 5 had gotten the Thai empire pretty powerful, expanding the borders on al sides, even controlling parts of China. The Thais were also the only country in SE Asia to attack anyone outside of SE Asia (Sri Lanka) ... Although technically speaking they weren't Thai quite yet ... the Country currently known as Nakhon Sri Thammarat attacked Sri Lanka, but were shown the door when many of the Tamils they hired turned on them on the battlefield, so weakening the country that it accepted membership into Siam.

was not colonized not because it had a mighty army to thwart the western powers but it was mainly due due to the fact that siam had became very war weary after many centuries of wars with her neighbours and particularly after getting painful punishings by the burmese which to this day is fed into school children like their version of the jews holocaust.......

anyhow subsequent rulers realized that wars were to be avoided at almost any cost..........check out how much concessions they had to make to the brits and the french to save itself from being colonized...............

as for the japanese.......instead of standing up to the agressors...........they let the japs cross it's territory to attack allies forces and it's neighbours.............they even decleared war on the americans and the brits .............

Couldn't agree more. Historically Siam is usually the weaker country, especially relative to Burma. Cannot remember how many time the Burmese has invaded Siam, rob their subject, burned the cities kill the men and bring home Siamese cute girls. There are only a handful account whereby The Siamese managed to defense for themselves. Not even sure if they have even tried to invade Burma before.

I know that many Siamese will be angry at me. But that's a fact.

You don't have to apologize for simply telling the truth .

[animatic]

Animatic -

Japan invaded Thailand at Prachuap Khiri Khan Airfield on December 8th 1941. The Thais defended strongly for 48 hours, despite being heavily outgunned, before their government capitulated without checking on progress of the battle.

(Disclosure - I've been commissioned to write a major series about the WW2 campaign for Malaya up to the eve of invading Singapore - the first 4 parts (9,000+ words) are submitted and accepted .... only another 27,000 words to go, research is done, it's all typing from here on in .... then I might do the book - maybe! .... IF I can get the "Tai Millennium" one (600AD-1600AD) completed first.)

Gaz old bean, very cool details.

I lent my book on said subject to a hard drinking english neighbor,

who moved to Issan with it.

I will amend mine post to after 48 hours made a deal.

2 days to save face and do the deal, and that's that.

I'd like to see the recent article.

I will happily look for your book when available,

Unless you want a local, slightly dyslexic, proof reader prior to publishing?

I am actual better read on 13th centuray Fench wars and American Revolution,

but once did get through abourd 10 volumes on WWII,

but little was said about Thailand to my memory.

Nice to get authoritative detail always.

[Plus]

Hun Sen has backed off with his war mongering, now it's back to sharing rice cookers and joint patrols.

What a <deleted>!

Two of his soldiers were killed, next time they shoot ship him out to fight his own battles himself.

[imaneggspurt]

Bergen I believe the national park is still full of uncleared mines. That would slow down any Khmer attempts to come in around the sides.

Here is a sign from the temple grounds. I froze when i saw this because i had never been in a mined area before. There are many signs around the temple area.

You may have to enlarge to read the words on the sign.

Cheers, Rick

We ride bikes all over rural thailand and all the tracks/roads near the borders are very much alive with land mines,we often pass different world agencies clearing mines just off the tracks,..stick to used paths/tracks and all is ok, off it is still very dangerous,.