Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[yoshiwara]

It has been going down, so for all those snippets of those buying there has been greater pressure for selling.

But don't let the price get in the way of a good story.

[mccw]

Where is all this "greater pressure for selling" coming from?

Looks like Paper in the face of physical demand. All the stories are CBs, investors etc buying physical, none for major physical holders selling.

The fact gold as a % of reserves is still so small, but now recognised as something desirable to increase, is hugely bullish for gold I think.

[Naam]

presumably this will lead to shortage and gold spike?

the story as written says

“From a government perspective, gold is seen as currency, and the government is slowly releasing the controls on currency. We expect the [gold] market will be opened up to more foreign banks,” he said.

Given their trading volumes, Chinese banks already play a significant role in determining international gold prices, so the move will have a limited impact on prices, Mr. East said.

China offers a massive gold market, albeit one that is tightly controlled. The country is the world’s biggest gold producer and ranked as the No. 2 gold consumer in the third quarter of this year. It has official gold reserves of 1,054 metric tons, the world’s sixth-largest, World Gold Council data show. But gold exports are banned and only a handful of banks hold import licenses.

Until now, member banks have been able to trade physical gold between themselves on the Shanghai Gold Exchange, but the absence of an over-the-counter market restricted them from becoming market makers in gold. In an over-the-counter market, transactions are quoted and conducted between parties on a principal-to-principal basis rather than being traded through a broker on an exchange.

"It's widely believed that the majority of the gold flowing into Hong Kong ends up in China, so its total is probably close to double what the chart reflects. Even if none of it went to China, coin and jewelry demand is 35 times greater than the US, based on GDP.

The contrast between how our two nations can buy bullion is striking…

In China, you can buy gold and silver at the bank. My teller looked at me oddly when I asked.

Bullion is available for purchase at Chinese post offices. I wonder how my local postman would respond if I asked for a tube of silver Eagles.

Mints are readily accessible to retail customers. Here, I can only order proof and commemorative products from the US Mint and am forced to go to an independent dealer.

A new product design is manufactured every year. This being the Year of the Dragon, many bullion products are emblazoned with dragons. You can still buy last year's rabbit, and next year it will be a snake. The US has two designs, the Eagle and Buffalo; the latter was introduced in 2006 and is available only in gold (if you see a silver Buffalo, it is a "Round" manufactured by a private mint, not the US Mint)."

[cheeryble]

. You can still buy last year's rabbit, and next year it will be a snake. ]

No, I'm told next year's coin is being changed to the "year of the mccw" for his services in defence of the gold standard in the face of it being dumped for decades by just about everyone.

[jacnl2000]

presumably this will lead to shortage and gold spike?

the story as written says

“From a government perspective, gold is seen as currency, and the government is slowly releasing the controls on currency. We expect the [gold] market will be opened up to more foreign banks,” he said.

Given their trading volumes, Chinese banks already play a significant role in determining international gold prices, so the move will have a limited impact on prices, Mr. East said.

China offers a massive gold market, albeit one that is tightly controlled. The country is the world’s biggest gold producer and ranked as the No. 2 gold consumer in the third quarter of this year. It has official gold reserves of 1,054 metric tons, the world’s sixth-largest, World Gold Council data show. But gold exports are banned and only a handful of banks hold import licenses.

Until now, member banks have been able to trade physical gold between themselves on the Shanghai Gold Exchange, but the absence of an over-the-counter market restricted them from becoming market makers in gold. In an over-the-counter market, transactions are quoted and conducted between parties on a principal-to-principal basis rather than being traded through a broker on an exchange.

"It's widely believed that the majority of the gold flowing into Hong Kong ends up in China, so its total is probably close to double what the chart reflects. Even if none of it went to China, coin and jewelry demand is 35 times greater than the US, based on GDP.

The contrast between how our two nations can buy bullion is striking…

In China, you can buy gold and silver at the bank. My teller looked at me oddly when I asked.

Bullion is available for purchase at Chinese post offices. I wonder how my local postman would respond if I asked for a tube of silver Eagles.

Mints are readily accessible to retail customers. Here, I can only order proof and commemorative products from the US Mint and am forced to go to an independent dealer.

A new product design is manufactured every year. This being the Year of the Dragon, many bullion products are emblazoned with dragons. You can still buy last year's rabbit, and next year it will be a snake. The US has two designs, the Eagle and Buffalo; the latter was introduced in 2006 and is available only in gold (if you see a silver Buffalo, it is a "Round" manufactured by a private mint, not the US Mint)."

Jewellers told to avoid PostNL for delivery after packages vanish

PostNL has denied the accusations, telling the Telegraaf the system makes it impossible for items to disappear.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/12/jewelers_told_to_avoid_postnl.php

[Naam]

Jewellers told to avoid PostNL for delivery after packages vanish

PostNL has denied the accusations, telling the Telegraaf the system makes it impossible for items to disappear.

http://www.dutchnews...void_postnl.php

only ignorant people send precious items uninsured.

[jacnl2000]

Jewellers told to avoid PostNL for delivery after packages vanish

PostNL has denied the accusations, telling the Telegraaf the system makes it impossible for items to disappear.

http://www.dutchnews...void_postnl.php

only ignorant people send precious items uninsured.

In this case more needs to be done than only sending precious items insured.

Above, I left out, did not copy-paste, a crusial piece of information from the article.

Why?

I find following quote quite hard to believe. When the federation says something it will be based upon more than only hearsay. Personally I've not experienced problems yet with registered mails of PostNL:

Both registered and non-registered parcels are affected, the federation says.

So, also insured parcels e.g. containing an irreplaceable item carrying a priceless emotional value of a customer may vanish. That's bad for business.

First step of risk management by members of the federation limiting their cost of insurance ignorance is not insuring a precious item when knowing that also these items will be delivered just as bad, but selecting a different partner for a more reliable delivery of their parcels. A lot of time is involved for solving delivery problems. Time is money. Try e.g. DHL. Don't forget DHL is also using humans...

Second step, yes, I agree, would be insuring a precious parcel at most likely a relative lower insurance cost.

[mccw]

http://rt.com/programs/capital-account/barry-habib-butler-housing/

First part is gold interest

[yoshiwara]

Gold is currently definitely going up, down around and around.

[JSixpack]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/has-gold-lost-its-midas-touch-for-good-2012-12-07?siteid=rss&rss=1

[Naam]

Gold is currently definitely going up, down around and around.

not to forget a little back and forth

but in the long run the value of Gold, measured in worthless fiat money, will reach hyperparamountsupreme unseen heights.

i have it from the mouths of several horses, namely the World Gold Council, Dyler Turd, Jesse's Crooked Lanes Diner, FT-Omegaville and... Mrs Naam. can these experts be wrong? no way!

[Naam]

four days no postings! it seems impossible that four full days passed without any central bank or a famous godzillionaire-investor buying a few hundred tons of the yellow metal. conspiracy of the media suppressing victorious news? Supreme Paramount Imperial World Gold Council already in Christmas idle gear?

[falkan]

we are waiting for the "dip"

[yoshiwara]

we are waiting for the "dip"

Well you have had over a year and a drop of 200 points, so what are you waiting for now?

[Jayman]

Here are some gold nonsense stories for those needing something gold related to talk about

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2247578/How-ones-gold-Queen-inspects-bullion-deep-Bank-Of-England-holds-stocks-worth-197billion.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/dont-do-it-again-prince-philips-advice-to-bankers-over-global-financial-collapse-8412982.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/royalfamilyvideo/9742780/Queen-and-Duke-of-Edinburgh-visit-gold-vault-at-Bank-of-England.html

[yoshiwara]

Where is all this "greater pressure for selling" coming from?

Looks like Paper in the face of physical demand. All the stories are CBs, investors etc buying physical, none for major physical holders selling.

The fact gold as a % of reserves is still so small, but now recognised as something desirable to increase, is hugely bullish for gold I think.

Sure shares aren't the real thing. Another bit of gold bug nonsense constantly peddled to explain prices not matching the fairy tale stories.

[jacnl2000]

Her Black Gloves remind me of Geelman's pharmacy and following picture:

[mccw]

Muppets:-

http://goldbasics.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/gold-investores-beware-of-thailand.html?m=1

[midas]

Muppets:-

http://goldbasics.bl...ailand.html?m=1

surely they should have know something wasn't quite right when they were described as being

GOLD " Investores "

[mccw]

"Afghanistan, one of the worlds poorest countries, has reportedly seen travelers taking large quantities of gold out of the country, mostly to Dubai. Heroin money laundering and sanctions evasions by Iran are the rumored causes.

The surge in gold trafficking began this past summer, the New York Times reported. Passengers carry bags full of gold on commercial flights leaving Kabul, most of them to Dubai.

One passenger reportedly boarded a morning flight in mid-October with 37 kilograms of gold bars. The load was worth more than $1.5 million. Over the last two weeks of October, more than 250 kg of gold worth $14 million left the country through the airport.

The gold is fully declared and legal to fly. Some of it, if not most, is being sent by gold dealers seeking to have jewelry refashioned by craftsmen in the United Arab Emirates and other countries in the region, an Afghan official said.

But Noorullah Delawari, the governor of Afghanistans central bank, acknowledged that the spike in gold transport was suspicious. I dont know where so much gold would come from, he told the New York Times. Delawari said that an investigation into the issue is underway, and that Afghan authorities are prepared to intervene if they find evidence of money laundering."-RTapp

[yoshiwara]

"Afghanistan, one of the worlds poorest countries, has reportedly seen travelers taking large quantities of gold out of the country, mostly to Dubai. Heroin money laundering and sanctions evasions by Iran are the rumored causes.

The surge in gold trafficking began this past summer, the New York Times reported. Passengers carry bags full of gold on commercial flights leaving Kabul, most of them to Dubai.

One passenger reportedly boarded a morning flight in mid-October with 37 kilograms of gold bars. The load was worth more than $1.5 million. Over the last two weeks of October, more than 250 kg of gold worth $14 million left the country through the airport.

The gold is fully declared and legal to fly. Some of it, if not most, is being sent by gold dealers seeking to have jewelry refashioned by craftsmen in the United Arab Emirates and other countries in the region, an Afghan official said.

But Noorullah Delawari, the governor of Afghanistans central bank, acknowledged that the spike in gold transport was suspicious. I dont know where so much gold would come from, he told the New York Times. Delawari said that an investigation into the issue is underway, and that Afghan authorities are prepared to intervene if they find evidence of money laundering."-RTapp

1001 Arabian Nights.

[mccw]

One is not amused:

"It was meant to be a visit without any high politics but the Queen still managed to quiz the Chancellor about British gold as she visited Downing Street.

Walking along the line of ministers in the Terracotta Room inside Number 10 before sitting in on part of a Cabinet meeting, the monarch came to George Osborne.

Until that point, every minister had been introduced by Prime Minister David Cameron but he failed to announce his friend Mr Osborne.

The Queen queried "someone?", to gales of laughter from the assembled politicians, before going on to ask about "gold bars".

Some of her words are indistinct on video footage of the exchange but she can be heard saying "regrettably" in a reference to their sale.

Mr Osborne told the Queen: "Some of them were sold but we still have some left."

Gordon Brown sold more than half of the UK's gold reserves when he was chancellor - a decision that has led to major criticism in recent years as the economy floundered.

Between 1999 and 2002, Mr Brown sold almost 400 tonnes of the precious metal for up to $296 (£183) an ounce - only to see prices soar to above $1,600 (£986).

Sky's deputy political editor Joey Jones said the comment suggests that the financial management of the UK in the last 15-20 years is on the monarch's mind.

It comes days after she told staff at the Bank of England that people "had got a bit lax" during the financial crisis sparked in 2008."- sky news apps

She is clearly advocating massive gold purchases while these freshly printed fiat £s still hold some value ;-)

[yoshiwara]

One is not amused:

"It was meant to be a visit without any high politics but the Queen still managed to quiz the Chancellor about British gold as she visited Downing Street.

Walking along the line of ministers in the Terracotta Room inside Number 10 before sitting in on part of a Cabinet meeting, the monarch came to George Osborne.

Until that point, every minister had been introduced by Prime Minister David Cameron but he failed to announce his friend Mr Osborne.

The Queen queried "someone?", to gales of laughter from the assembled politicians, before going on to ask about "gold bars".

Some of her words are indistinct on video footage of the exchange but she can be heard saying "regrettably" in a reference to their sale.

Mr Osborne told the Queen: "Some of them were sold but we still have some left."

Gordon Brown sold more than half of the UK's gold reserves when he was chancellor - a decision that has led to major criticism in recent years as the economy floundered.

Between 1999 and 2002, Mr Brown sold almost 400 tonnes of the precious metal for up to $296 (£183) an ounce - only to see prices soar to above $1,600 (£986).

Sky's deputy political editor Joey Jones said the comment suggests that the financial management of the UK in the last 15-20 years is on the monarch's mind.

It comes days after she told staff at the Bank of England that people "had got a bit lax" during the financial crisis sparked in 2008."- sky news apps

She is clearly advocating massive gold purchases while these freshly printed fiat £s still hold some value ;-)

From the Queen of Sheba to the Queen of England you are certainly lurching around like a drunken sailor. Gold down again today.

[Jayman]

One is not amused:

"It was meant to be a visit without any high politics but the Queen still managed to quiz the Chancellor about British gold as she visited Downing Street.

Walking along the line of ministers in the Terracotta Room inside Number 10 before sitting in on part of a Cabinet meeting, the monarch came to George Osborne.

Until that point, every minister had been introduced by Prime Minister David Cameron but he failed to announce his friend Mr Osborne.

The Queen queried "someone?", to gales of laughter from the assembled politicians, before going on to ask about "gold bars".

Some of her words are indistinct on video footage of the exchange but she can be heard saying "regrettably" in a reference to their sale.

Mr Osborne told the Queen: "Some of them were sold but we still have some left."

Gordon Brown sold more than half of the UK's gold reserves when he was chancellor - a decision that has led to major criticism in recent years as the economy floundered.

Between 1999 and 2002, Mr Brown sold almost 400 tonnes of the precious metal for up to $296 (£183) an ounce - only to see prices soar to above $1,600 (£986).

Sky's deputy political editor Joey Jones said the comment suggests that the financial management of the UK in the last 15-20 years is on the monarch's mind.

It comes days after she told staff at the Bank of England that people "had got a bit lax" during the financial crisis sparked in 2008."- sky news apps

She is clearly advocating massive gold purchases while these freshly printed fiat £s still hold some value ;-)

From the Queen of Sheba to the Queen of England you are certainly lurching around like a drunken sailor. Gold down again today.

Yes gold down and the euro up. Dollar also down. Guess you can throw your correlation theories out the window.

[yoshiwara]

One is not amused:

"It was meant to be a visit without any high politics but the Queen still managed to quiz the Chancellor about British gold as she visited Downing Street.

Walking along the line of ministers in the Terracotta Room inside Number 10 before sitting in on part of a Cabinet meeting, the monarch came to George Osborne.

Until that point, every minister had been introduced by Prime Minister David Cameron but he failed to announce his friend Mr Osborne.

The Queen queried "someone?", to gales of laughter from the assembled politicians, before going on to ask about "gold bars".

Some of her words are indistinct on video footage of the exchange but she can be heard saying "regrettably" in a reference to their sale.

Mr Osborne told the Queen: "Some of them were sold but we still have some left."

Gordon Brown sold more than half of the UK's gold reserves when he was chancellor - a decision that has led to major criticism in recent years as the economy floundered.

Between 1999 and 2002, Mr Brown sold almost 400 tonnes of the precious metal for up to $296 (£183) an ounce - only to see prices soar to above $1,600 (£986).

Sky's deputy political editor Joey Jones said the comment suggests that the financial management of the UK in the last 15-20 years is on the monarch's mind.

It comes days after she told staff at the Bank of England that people "had got a bit lax" during the financial crisis sparked in 2008."- sky news apps

She is clearly advocating massive gold purchases while these freshly printed fiat £s still hold some value ;-)

From the Queen of Sheba to the Queen of England you are certainly lurching around like a drunken sailor. Gold down again today.

Yes gold down and the euro up. Dollar also down. Guess you can throw your correlation theories out the window.

I think the suggestion was that gold goes down when the euro goes down. Gold has not been a good play this year, so fund managers may be jumping into 'successful' stocks into year's end to tart up their portfolios. It will be interesting to see whether the specialness of year end portfolio adjustment persists into the new year. You can at least console yourself that the euro shorts have yet again taken a bath.

[Jayman]

One is not amused:

"It was meant to be a visit without any high politics but the Queen still managed to quiz the Chancellor about British gold as she visited Downing Street.

Walking along the line of ministers in the Terracotta Room inside Number 10 before sitting in on part of a Cabinet meeting, the monarch came to George Osborne.

Until that point, every minister had been introduced by Prime Minister David Cameron but he failed to announce his friend Mr Osborne.

The Queen queried "someone?", to gales of laughter from the assembled politicians, before going on to ask about "gold bars".

Some of her words are indistinct on video footage of the exchange but she can be heard saying "regrettably" in a reference to their sale.

Mr Osborne told the Queen: "Some of them were sold but we still have some left."

Gordon Brown sold more than half of the UK's gold reserves when he was chancellor - a decision that has led to major criticism in recent years as the economy floundered.

Between 1999 and 2002, Mr Brown sold almost 400 tonnes of the precious metal for up to $296 (£183) an ounce - only to see prices soar to above $1,600 (£986).

Sky's deputy political editor Joey Jones said the comment suggests that the financial management of the UK in the last 15-20 years is on the monarch's mind.

It comes days after she told staff at the Bank of England that people "had got a bit lax" during the financial crisis sparked in 2008."- sky news apps

She is clearly advocating massive gold purchases while these freshly printed fiat £s still hold some value ;-)

From the Queen of Sheba to the Queen of England you are certainly lurching around like a drunken sailor. Gold down again today.

Yes gold down and the euro up. Dollar also down. Guess you can throw your correlation theories out the window.

I think the suggestion was that gold goes down when the euro goes down. Gold has not been a good play this year, so fund managers may be jumping into 'successful' stocks into year's end to tart up their portfolios. It will be interesting to see whether the specialness of year end portfolio adjustment persists into the new year. You can at least console yourself that the euro shorts have yet again taken a bath.

I need no console..

Here is a a nice chart showing how gold and the USD and now tracking each other

[midas]

It seems 2012 is not yet done with its surprises. The Central Bank of Russia has issued three values of bullion (300,000 31.1g silver pieces with a 3RUB face value, 300,000 7.78g gold pieces with 50RUB face, & 100,000 15.55g gold pieces with a 100RUB face value) that can be used as legal tender beginning, well, TWO DAYS AGO! If you don’t yet understand the ramifications of such a move, don’t worry, it’s not too late. But you want to begin reading now –

http://sandeproject.wordpress.com/2012/12/19/well-arent-these-fine/

[mccw]

It seems 2012 is not yet done with its surprises. The Central Bank of Russia has issued three values of bullion (300,000 31.1g silver pieces with a 3RUB face value, 300,000 7.78g gold pieces with 50RUB face, & 100,000 15.55g gold pieces with a 100RUB face valuue) that can be used as legal tender beginning, well, TWO DAYS AGO! If you don’t yet understand the ramifications of such a move, don’t worry, it’s not too late. But you want to begin reading now –

http://sandeproject.wordpress.com/2012/12/19/well-arent-these-fine/

7.8 grams with a face value of 50rbl or about 1£ , so just a nominal currency value but clearly stating legal tender

From RT app:

"The Russian Central Bank has issued into circulation 700,000 Sochi 2014 bullion coins.

All the coins have a square-cut form and depict the Russian double-headed eagle on one side and a white bear, one of the Sochi 2014 mascots, on the other.

The issues include 300,000 silver coins with the value of 3 roubles, 300,000 gold coins with a nominal value of 50 roubles and 100,000 gold coins worth 100 roubles.

(Image from http://www.cbr.ru)

The Russian Central Bank stressed in its press-release that from now on the coins could be used as legal tender."

Similar to china they are expanding gold and silver as alternative mediums of exchange and saving. Much more to follow I think.

Although i recognise these numbers of Sochi issue are mainly just commemorative

Edited December 19, 2012 by mccw

[Jayman]

It seems 2012 is not yet done with its surprises. The Central Bank of Russia has issued three values of bullion (300,000 31.1g silver pieces with a 3RUB face value, 300,000 7.78g gold pieces with 50RUB face, & 100,000 15.55g gold pieces with a 100RUB face value) that can be used as legal tender beginning, well, TWO DAYS AGO! If you don’t yet understand the ramifications of such a move, don’t worry, it’s not too late. But you want to begin reading now –

http://sandeproject....ent-these-fine/

I'm sorry but I don't at all understand the importance of this. The mints of many countries have been issuing both gold and silver coins with face value legal tender amounts printed on them. Of course, no one in their right mind would try and spend them for the face value amount with is many many times less than the melt value of the metal.

For instance, the $1 US silver eagle which is 1oz of fine silver. An oz of Silver is over $30 an oz. Or the US eagles and buffalo. They are also 1 oz of gold and have face value of $50.

So you are saying that now the russians have joined the rest of the world in creating gold and silver coins with low values printed on them. 1 rub=1thb.. so the 1 oz silver coin is valued at 3thb. And the gold coins which are 1/4 and 1/2 oz are valued at 50thb and 100thb? What am I missing here? Obviously these have no intention of being used as legal tender unless the banks plan to sell these coins for the legal tender value printed on them. In which case, when's the next flight for Moscow?

[jbrain]

Someone can explain this ? Look at the chart, which makes big jumps all day, but look especially at the difference between the numbers in the day's range and the numbers on the chart