Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[yoshiwara]

Gold collapse now down to ~ $1360 nearly 10% on the day.

Edited April 15, 2013 by yoshiwara

[manarak]

wow, 10%!

I am gutted, I got a gold chain I want to sell :-(

on the other hand, draghi asking EUR states to sell their gold reserves somehow reminds me of personal bankruptcies where debtors would make sure to spend every last bit they own to prevent the bank from having it.

but indeed why keep gold reserves when Germany is footing the FPIIGS' bill?

[manarak]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22151474

seeing it with perspective... Cyprus announced that it wanted to sell its gold reserves AND Draghi talks about selling gold??

they talked about it so much that now Cyprus will not raise the cash they had hoped for by selling the reserves...

question: if you sat on heaps of gold big enough to move the market, would you go and tell everyone that you want to sell?

will we see any actual gold sales?

[Jayman]

http://news.sharpspixley.com/article/ross-norman-gold-crushed-by-400-tonnes-or-usd20-billion-of-selling-on-comex/159239/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=linkedin

ROSS NORMAN - Gold crushed by 400 tonnes or $20 billion of selling on COMEX

APR
15

The gold futures markets opened in New York on Friday 12th April to a monumental 3.4 million ounces (100 tonnes) of gold selling of the June futures contract (see below) in what proved to be only an opening shot. The selling took gold to the technically very important level of $1540 which was not only the low of 2012, it was also seen by many as the level which confirmed the ongoing bull run which dates back to 2000. In many traders minds it stood as a formidable support level... the line in the sand.

Two hours later the initial selling, rumoured to have been routed through Merrill Lynch's floor team, by a rather more significant blast when the floor was hit by a further 10 million ounces of selling (300 tonnes) over the following 30 minutes of trading. This was clearly not a case of disappointed longs leaving the market - it had the hallmarks of a concerted 'short sale', which by driving prices sharply lower in a display of 'shock & awe' - would seek to gain further momentum by prompting others to also sell as their positions as they hit their maximum acceptable losses or so-called 'stopped-out' in market parlance - probably hidden the unimpeachable (?) $1540 level.

[HardenedSoul]

These links will give you a good idea where Gold is going after today, down and out.

Billionaire loses $300 million in a day as gold plummets, 15 April.

John Paulson is the biggest loser as the precious metal falls to its lowest price in almost two years.

http://au.pfinance.yahoo.com/education/investing/article/-/16737432/billionaire-loses-300-million-in-one-day

Bloodbath as $20 billion wiped off market

Falling commodity prices and soft Chinese GDP data have hit the local market, with gold miners the worst hit.

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/market-bloodbath-20-billion-wiped-043514966.html

Gold going nowhere

A decade after the launch of the first gold exchange traded fund, the yellow metal is not looking like a great investment.

http://au.pfinance.yahoo.com/our-experts/michael-pascoe/article/-/16525112/gold-going-nowhere/

Live Gold Prices

http://au.finance.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A2KJjb1AZmtRoQgAs4K7vIlQ/SIG=12t4bfvol/EXP=1366021824/**http%3a//au.finance.yahoo.com/news/gold-plunges-1-500-lowest-175742137.html

It's always when commentary and newsflow is at its most bearish that the smart money moves in.

[yoshiwara]

And now a knife to the heart (apart from gold dropping $200 in 2 days)

Kathleen Kelley, Chief Investment Officer for Queen Anne's Gate Capital, who has been shorting gold since January was asked on CNBC today, 'why?' One of the reasons she gave was, wait for it, declining demand for gold coins.

Oh No! Not that! Please Mother of God the Coins are Sacrosanct!

Edited April 15, 2013 by yoshiwara

[midas]

Assault On Gold Update— Paul Craig Roberts

What happens when 500 tons of gold sales are dumped on the market at one time or

on one day?

Correct, it drivesthe price down. Investors who want to get out of large positions would spread

sales out over time so as not to lower their sales proceeds. The sale took gold down by about $73 per ounce. That means the seller or sellers lost up to $73 dollars 16 million times, or $1,168,000,000.

Who can afford to lose that kind of money? Only a central bank that can print it.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/04/13/assault-on-gold-update-paul-craig-roberts/

[Naam]

Who can afford to lose that kind of money? Only a central bank that can print it.

the real central bankers where replaced by shapeshifters from the Gamma Quadrant. they work hand in hand with the Ferengis who need Planet Earth's gold for the cross-quadrant trade currency gold-pressed Latinum.

[fletchsmile]

Assault On Gold Update— Paul Craig Roberts

What happens when 500 tons of gold sales are dumped on the market at one time or

on one day?

Correct, it drivesthe price down. Investors who want to get out of large positions would spread

sales out over time so as not to lower their sales proceeds. The sale took gold down by about $73 per ounce. That means the seller or sellers lost up to $73 dollars 16 million times, or $1,168,000,000.

Who can afford to lose that kind of money? Only a central bank that can print it.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/04/13/assault-on-gold-update-paul-craig-roberts/

A couple of questions about the photo:

- Is that aluminium foil or gold foil on the top of his hat?

- In your world of conspiracy theories do cats have any significance - you know like the Egyptians - guardians of the underworld and all that?

Edited April 15, 2013 by fletchsmile

[mccw]

So the gold is in fact a valuable reserve incase of disaster, banking

crises, currency crises or what you. Its value in this respect is

greater than the number on the the markets screen on any particular day.

in essence you might be proved right (long term),

in details you are completely wrong.

the details are:

-Bear Sterns bankruptcy and takeover March 2008 - Gold shoots to $1033/ounce

-Lehman Bros bankruptcy Sept 2008 - Gold at $740/ounce

-Gold gained in 2009 ~40% ($1220/ounce) whereas

the hammered financials gained 300, 400, 500% and more.

nd because we are only discussing "disaster, banking crises, currency crises"

i must add that this last big crisis did not propel Gold over and above the indices

of most major stock markets until this very day.

i humbly apologise for stating facts, which i did not make up

I'm sure you are right. I'm not talking about a gambled gain. I'm talking about having an easily concealable oops, convertible asset/ currency which has no counter party risk, can not be frozen, taxed or otherwise disappeared through corrupt trickery or stupid decisions taken far away and outside of my control or possibility to know about. Its protection from systemic failure. If everything's alright then I can pay my debts down with income from normal business. Reserves are reserves, not speculation , gambling or profiteering. Edited April 15, 2013 by mccw

[connda]

The BRICs and China are buying the dips. You should too. There should be more carnage over the next couple of days. Time to head for the gold shops after Songkran.

And hold on to your hats and keep your powder dry: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-15/what-happened-last-time-we-saw-gold-drop

[Jayman]

Assault On Gold Update— Paul Craig Roberts

What happens when 500 tons of gold sales are dumped on the market at one time or

on one day?

Correct, it drivesthe price down. Investors who want to get out of large positions would spread

sales out over time so as not to lower their sales proceeds. The sale took gold down by about $73 per ounce. That means the seller or sellers lost up to $73 dollars 16 million times, or $1,168,000,000.

Who can afford to lose that kind of money? Only a central bank that can print it.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/04/13/assault-on-gold-update-paul-craig-roberts/

I don't understand how the sellers are the ones to lose money when the price drops. Those shorting a falling market are the ones to make the profit. It's those buying gold during a falling market that lose.

[fletchsmile]

So the gold is in fact a valuable reserve incase of disaster, banking

crises, currency crises or what you. Its value in this respect is

greater than the number on the the markets screen on any particular day.

in essence you might be proved right (long term),

in details you are completely wrong.

the details are:

-Bear Sterns bankruptcy and takeover March 2008 - Gold shoots to $1033/ounce

-Lehman Bros bankruptcy Sept 2008 - Gold at $740/ounce

-Gold gained in 2009 ~40% ($1220/ounce) whereas

the hammered financials gained 300, 400, 500% and more.

nd because we are only discussing "disaster, banking crises, currency crises"

i must add that this last big crisis did not propel Gold over and above the indices

of most major stock markets until this very day.

i humbly apologise for stating facts, which i did not make up

I'm sure you are right. I'm not talking about a gambled gain. I'm talking about having an easily concealable oops, convertible asset/ currency which has no counter party risk, can not be frozen, taxed or otherwise disappeared through corrupt trickery or stupid des coins taken far away and outside of my control or possibility to know about. Its protection from systemic failure. If everything's alright then I can pay my debts down with income from normal business. Reserves are reserves, not speculation , gambling or profiteering.

If Obama takes a gold leaf out of Franklin D.Roosevelts books I think a few of the remaining assumptions would disappear too.

http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html

The freedom to own gold in the US is only around as long as they want it to be. I'd say there's a very good chance the privelege to own it would be withdrawn in the event of complete systematic failure. Not hard to imagine them levying a tax either if it suited them. Bottom line is its only a reserve for you as long as they allow it to be

[Khun Jean]

The second "G" will help to keep your first "G".

Otherwise you have to hide it.

Me, i moved to Thailand where people understand what gold is. A hedge against government and central bank induced inflation and devaluations.

Westerners have been slowly conditioned to forget about the role of gold. Bankers do know, that is why they buy and hoard it.

Dropping the price by selling paper contracts is a great way to pick up physical for a lower price.

Especially when that trade is backstopped by taxpayers. Nothing can go wrong, until the moment people catch on.

What else to do with that enormous pile of money, surely don't want to lend it out to businesses and people to stimulate and invest in the economy, how old fashioned. Use it to speculate and profit.

[mccw]

I am 99% sure this is a manufactured down turn in the prices.

I am taking this as an indicator that the next wave of the financial crises will soon be causing mayhem on the other markets. Months rather than years. I think the Japanese bonds flapping about has a lot to do with it.

The powers are Squeezing out the physical before all hell breaks loose in the bonds markets and the rush to saftey will be the only place left = PMs. Government will be forced to step in to 100% print and buy buy buy thier own bonds (they at 60-80% doin that already anyway) Currencies screwed and devalue an awful lot faster than this past 6months. Hold on to your pants fellas.

30bht to 1 £ and 20bht to 1 $ by this time next year...... If we're lucky

[manarak]

Assault On Gold Update— Paul Craig Roberts

What happens when 500 tons of gold sales are dumped on the market at one time or

on one day?

Correct, it drivesthe price down. Investors who want to get out of large positions would spread

sales out over time so as not to lower their sales proceeds. The sale took gold down by about $73 per ounce. That means the seller or sellers lost up to $73 dollars 16 million times, or $1,168,000,000.

Who can afford to lose that kind of money? Only a central bank that can print it.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/04/13/assault-on-gold-update-paul-craig-roberts/

I don't understand how the sellers are the ones to lose money when the price drops. Those shorting a falling market are the ones to make the profit. It's those buying gold during a falling market that lose.

Yes, but you assume they sell first, then speak, whereas in this case, it has been all talk, no sale. So Cyprus and the other Draghi friends are still sitting on their pile of gold, which is now worth 10% less.

If they had wanted to sell, I suppose they would have begun with keeping it a secret and letting it out on the derivatives market first where big sizes can be sold without attracting too much attention in the first hours.

[mccw]

So the gold is in fact a valuable reserve incase of disaster, banking

crises, currency crises or what you. Its value in this respect is

greater than the number on the the markets screen on any particular day.

in essence you might be proved right (long term),

in details you are completely wrong.

the details are:

-Bear Sterns bankruptcy and takeover March 2008 - Gold shoots to $1033/ounce

-Lehman Bros bankruptcy Sept 2008 - Gold at $740/ounce

-Gold gained in 2009 ~40% ($1220/ounce) whereas

the hammered financials gained 300, 400, 500% and more.

nd because we are only discussing "disaster, banking crises, currency crises"

i must add that this last big crisis did not propel Gold over and above the indices

of most major stock markets until this very day.

i humbly apologise for stating facts, which i did not make up

I'm sure you are right. I'm not talking about a gambled gain. I'm talking about having an easily concealable oops, convertible asset/ currency which has no counter party risk, can not be frozen, taxed or otherwise disappeared through corrupt trickery or stupid des coins taken far away and outside of my control or possibility to know about. Its protection from systemic failure. If everything's alright then I can pay my debts down with income from normal business. Reserves are reserves, not speculation , gambling or profiteering.

If Obama takes a gold leaf out of Franklin D.Roosevelts books I think a few of the remaining assumptions would disappear too.

http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html

The freedom to own gold in the US is only around as long as they want it to be. I'd say there's a very good chance the privelege to own it would be withdrawn in the event of complete systematic failure. Not hard to imagine them levying a tax either if it suited them. Bottom line is its only a reserve for you as long as they allow it to be

Thankfully I do not live in USofA and I think its completely possible to happen in EU or even UK. I live in Thailand. I think that if the government tried such a thing there would be armed resistance, making the prospect of attempting such a thing unlikely. Similarly land or other excessive taxes are unlikely I think.

Also my gold is bought with out any record or paper trail + well hidden.

If buying in west it must be bought cash and not recorded to serve its proper purpose.

[connda]

Assault On Gold Update— Paul Craig Roberts

What happens when 500 tons of gold sales are dumped on the market at one time or

on one day?

Correct, it drivesthe price down. Investors who want to get out of large positions would spread

sales out over time so as not to lower their sales proceeds. The sale took gold down by about $73 per ounce. That means the seller or sellers lost up to $73 dollars 16 million times, or $1,168,000,000.

Who can afford to lose that kind of money? Only a central bank that can print it.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/04/13/assault-on-gold-update-paul-craig-roberts/

I don't understand how the sellers are the ones to lose money when the price drops. Those shorting a falling market are the ones to make the profit. It's those buying gold during a falling market that lose.

The market is rigged and highly manipulated. This is not conspiracy theory -- it's fact. Start at GATA http://www.gata.org/ There has been a huge outpouring of articles documenting the manipulation over the last couple of years, and this info is finally being covered by the MSM. JPMorgan is the primary player shorting the market, prices are being driven down, and the insiders are buying. Physical gold is in short supply and some banks have been unable to delivery on future contracts. Educate yourself, keep a cash position and don't be surprised if we watch a 2008 Lehman moment hit soon.

[connda]

Assault On Gold Update— Paul Craig Roberts

What happens when 500 tons of gold sales are dumped on the market at one time or

on one day?

Correct, it drivesthe price down. Investors who want to get out of large positions would spread

sales out over time so as not to lower their sales proceeds. The sale took gold down by about $73 per ounce. That means the seller or sellers lost up to $73 dollars 16 million times, or $1,168,000,000.

Who can afford to lose that kind of money? Only a central bank that can print it.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/04/13/assault-on-gold-update-paul-craig-roberts/

I don't understand how the sellers are the ones to lose money when the price drops. Those shorting a falling market are the ones to make the profit. It's those buying gold during a falling market that lose.

Yes, but you assume they sell first, then speak, whereas in this case, it has been all talk, no sale. So Cyprus and the other Draghi friends are still sitting on their pile of gold, which is now worth 10% less.

If they had wanted to sell, I suppose they would have begun with keeping it a secret and letting it out on the derivatives market first where big sizes can be sold without attracting too much attention in the first hours.

Unless you're a day trader, you need to keep your focus on the long game.

[cheeryble]

.

I've got mortgage debt totalling about 1.2million quid.

.

You owe 1.2 million quid?

For Chrissakes mccw

You and the articles you quote have been ranting and raving obsessively about inflation (odd timing just as the Fed gave meaningful signals about cutting QE).

Don't you realise the one person that gains from inflation is the debtor?

[GAS]

I am 99% sure this is a manufactured down turn in the prices.

I am taking this as an indicator that the next wave of the financial crises will soon be causing mayhem on the other markets. Months rather than years. I think the Japanese bonds flapping about has a lot to do with it.

The powers are Squeezing out the physical before all hell breaks loose in the bonds markets and the rush to saftey will be the only place left = PMs. Government will be forced to step in to 100% print and buy buy buy thier own bonds (they at 60-80% doin that already anyway) Currencies screwed and devalue an awful lot faster than this past 6months. Hold on to your pants fellas.

30bht to 1 £ and 20bht to 1 $ by this time next year...... If we're lucky

I too thought last year that we will end up at 20 baht to the US$...not sure when it will happen, but it will.

[manarak]

Unless you're a day trader, you need to keep your focus on the long game.

10% qualifies for long game, even if done in a day.

[mccw]

.

I've got mortgage debt totalling about 1.2million quid.

.

You owe 1.2 million quid?

For Chrissakes mccw

You and the articles you quote have been ranting and raving obsessively about inflation (odd timing just as the Fed gave meaningful signals about cutting QE).

Don't you realise the one person that gains from inflation is the debtor?

QE can not be cut. It is impossible. 100% impossible. Deficits are huge and no one but the fed are prepared to buy tresuries any more (80%+ fed bought; google it) talk of ending QE is just to keep an idea in the market that dollars are still somehow limited so that the dollar doesn't completely crash (algos and such maybe want to hear such <deleted> also) but it is never going to happen.

I quote articles about inflation / currency devaluation to serve the purpose of awareness and my point illustration.

I'm perfectly aware of the implications, which is why I am positioned as I am.

I see massive money creation going forward and bonds / interest rates will be kept low by continued gov support for bond markets / even if it means 100% self bought. Japan is just another step on the way.

I often like to debunk claims that there is no inflation or very low inflation because its a dangerous falsehood to believe and propagate.

[cheeryble]

BTW mccw

We suddenly are amazed to learn you sold your gold at $1050......ie nearly four years ago.

Don't you think it's disingenuous to not eat your own cooking?

[mccw]

BTW mccwWe suddenly are amazed to learn you sold your gold at $1050......ie nearly four years ago.Don't you think it's disingenuous to not eat your own cooking?

£s not $s

[mccw]

It was about 1650sell if dollar I guess. And come to think of it closer to the £1000 by the time margin taken. In all I lost about 3 grand but if I were to rebuy now I'd get more oz back for what I sold at so my net cash in and gold held from that intiatal cash after the buy sell buy will balance out to be roughly the same or better hopefully. Not that that's the point of holding it anyway but its a welcome bonus and makes me feel a bit better about it. It was unavoidable to have to sell and rebuy when I did. I posted on here when I sold it. Was about 2 months ago.

Edited April 15, 2013 by mccw

[cheeryble]

QE can not be cut. It is impossible. 100% impossible. Deficits are huge and no one but the fed are prepared to buy tresuries any more (80%+ fed bought; google it) talk of ending QE is just to keep an idea in the market that............

You may think that and I may think that and maybe even Naam thinks that, but on learning of discussions investors moved the stock and oil markets measurably lower on removal of stimulus becoming a real possibility.

Who do I trust?

The markets, or mccw?

[connda]

Unless you're a day trader, you need to keep your focus on the long game.

10% qualifies for long game, even if done in a day.

In the 2008 debacle, I watch some stocks lose in excess of 70% of their value and rebound 300%. The long game is you don't sweat cyclical market fluctuations. You can play the timing game, but I suck at it. I just go with buy low and sell high, and try to stay informed.

[cheeryble]

BTW mccwWe suddenly are amazed to learn you sold your gold at $1050......ie nearly four years ago.Don't you think it's disingenuous to not eat your own cooking?

£s not $s

Wow Baird and Co who take Kruggerrands and so on through the mail are the only people I know who write gold in £

Edited April 15, 2013 by cheeryble

[mccw]

Markets are lemmings, largely computer driven lemmings at that, if your a lemming then you'll always buy too high and sell in the midst of a crash.

You should trust in cheerbly, not lemmings.