Army Chief Urged To Stage Coup

[Bangyai]

People, this is not the solution. Some people will welcome this but others may not. Up until now we have seen that the police and Army have apparently wished to avoid shedding the blood of demonstrators. The word ' precedent ' has been used a lot lately. Have the PAD now set a new standard for protesting against authority. If a large number of people come out to protest against a coup which has been carefully stage managed from the begining, will the Army show the same kind of restraint in dealing with it if it escalates beyond control ???

After a coup there will be no going back. There will be no more voting. It would be farsical and every one would know it. That being the case...who will be left to act as watchdog over the ones in the driving seat ?? Sondhi ???? Apart from anything else it will be a carte blanche for more corruption and patronage and there would be no complaining about it. You won't even here about it.

[Sunderland]

Btw, PPP plans to bring 200,000 people to Bangkok. Perhaps those of you in the North can weigh in on the atmosphere there. Are the people prepared to fight and die for their democratic ideal of representation in government?

Very doubtful, but if there's free som tam, 500 baht and maybe a bit of "play game" thrown in, they might be able to mobilise 20,000 a fortnight from now.

[ozterix]

is there any internet TV station in english that broadcast news and messages?

oz

[ironhut]

"I would advise PAD backers to remember that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend."

Although this doesn't really say or prove anything, it's still a classic comment.

[cmsally]

A military coup is already underway, and has been for some time. Unlike the previous coup, this one is not being accomplished overtly through acts of commission, but rather through acts of omission. Namely, the military and the police are not fulfilling their their mandated responsibilities to protect the peace and follow the rule of law. The military and police leaders would prefer not to have to overtly overthrow the government, so they have been doing so by refusing to obey orders. If things continue to spin out of control they will be forced to take steps to finalize the coup, all the while claiming they are only doing so reluctantly. PAD are only the front men in this game, backed by powerful interests paying lip service to the principles of democracy and clean government, but in reality very opposed to those concepts as they are in direct conflict with the lucrative game they have been playing for many years. Thaksin and his cronies were/are indeed corrupt and have/had many faults, but PAD and its backers are not White Knights coming to Thailand's rescue. I would advise PAD backers to remember that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.

Spot on!

It's amazing the number of expat contributors who don't have a clue about "how things work here". Put down the beer bottle and use 5 minutes googling "20th century Thai history" while you still have internet access chaps!

Yep, spot on.

[belden]

I fear that a intervention of the police will lead to a stand off between police and army. If a coup by the army is being prepared, it better come sooner then later. I would hope then, that the army has the power to force an interim government of national unity until there can be new elections. The big problem I see with Gen Anupong's "suggestion" to hold new elections is that the PAD's support has been going down with the latest develoments, so new elections won't change a dam_n thing. The democrats would loose again, giving the PAD a reason to start this mess all over again.

It seems to me that the powerbrokers in the Thai polical landscape only care for democracy as window dressing, while looking to exploit the loopholes by changing the constitution, overruling court decisions, buying votes and what else you have. A Mickey mouse democracy, that's the way it looks to me sadly. A sad case of Thai shooting themselves in their own feet again by appointing Thaksin's brother in law as PM. a politcal party/movement not being able to consider the emotions of the minority and inable to foresee these consequences of their actions IMHO has no business in politics, majority or not.

[LinkPopularity]

please, explain this to me; I take 500 baht from 1 party, take 500 baht from second party and vote for third party ... how is party 1 and 2 going to know this?? it's a fundamental problem in this whole vote-buying debate ... it doesn't work !!

people don't sell their vote; they need the money to pay for transport and food to be able to vote; in other words; this whole vote buying is actually boosting democracy !

back to you ...

Do a search in the forum for vote buying, you'll find enough examples. And is it a fair vote, when the PPP pays the buses to drive people to their home towns for voting, and other parties do not offer this service. But the transportation is just the top if the iceberg.

You do not seriously argue that there is no vote fraud / buying in the villages...don't you?

I have been in a small village during elections ... believe me, there were 2 bus waiting!

the villagers would first argue and then decide which bus to take, they would get 500 baht anyway, no matter which bus they take ...

the rural population votes for the PPP because Thaksin has been the first one who has ever done anything for them, to the PAD the rural villagers should be enslaved ... that's why they don't vote for them !

to claim that the democrats don't buy votes is just ridiculous ...

again; you call it vote buying/fraud ... I call it sponsoring of democratic awareness !

keep trying ;-)

[oldexp]

Coup? Army or police? PPP or PAD? What will change?

As long as Thais are divided in country- and city-people, where first struggle for food and the others struggle for luxury, there will be democratic unjustice. The dictate of the uneducated.

As long as Thai-Leaders leave the vast masses of voters in intellectual-poverty, they can, with their money, win privileges (e.g.elections).

To be able to buy elections, these leaders must have funds. To have funds, they must be crooks.

Is there a the difference between Mister T. and Mister S.? None so far. Both want power.

Mister T. was clever enough to make the poor get the impression he cared about them, giving him time to collect tons of money for himself.

Mister S. tries to make the intellectual believe, that their more-education puts them in place to reign over everyone in a fascist-like, for sure undemocratic, way.

As long as no real democratic-thinking leader emerges, there will be no hope for LOS.

Stop smiling Thais! Stop asking/taking your little bribes! Kick the big crooks in their buts and out. Eat your somtam later!

I cannot see an easy way out of the mess Thailand is in right now.

Perhaps a military coup, somewhat unjustified, would be best though. Have T and S together in Dubai after that.

The long awaited and promised Internet for everybody, good education in rural areas and new elections let's say in 5 years ..........

[TukTukDriver]

can somebody pass me the gravy?

Just had my Thanksgiving dinner here in Japan and it was so good I completely forgot about Thailand and it's little problems. So nice and organized here in Japan I'm wondering if not going to Thailand in 2 weeks would be such a loss.

[asiawatcher]

I have been in a small village during elections ... believe me, there were 2 bus waiting!

the villagers would first argue and then decide which bus to take, they would get 500 baht anyway, no matter which bus they take ...

the rural population votes for the PPP because Thaksin has been the first one who has ever done anything for them, to the PAD the rural villagers should be enslaved ... that's why they don't vote for them !

Thaksin gave 1M Baht as an election promise to the villages from monies collected into consolidated revenues, knowing if he lost, no payment and if he won, Thai communities would pay his electoral promises. Nothing to lose! They got the money and distributed and the people were oh so happy. The majority bought a mobile phone - who owned the Phone Coy???

Thaksin is no different to Bush and Cheyney. Take from the coffers filled by innocents (yes even us Farang paid) and then find innovative ways to get it back into your own hands. Thaksinomics? What a joke.

Edited November 27, 2008 by asiawatcher

[h90]

is there any internet TV station in english that broadcast news and messages?

oz

www.thailandoutlook.tv

[FatherF]

Just on the radio, Thai Government have announced a SOE in Both Bangkok Airports.

FF

[Lopburi99]

If free elections cannot produce an effective governing body (for reasons discussed already), and the government cannot control the military, and the military can cause government coups at will, and corruption is pervasive, and the mobs control civility, what can this chaotic method of Thailand governing herself ever lead to?

[fauxie]

can somebody pass me the gravy?

Just had my Thanksgiving dinner here in Japan and it was so good I completely forgot about Thailand and it's little problems. So nice and organized here in Japan I'm wondering if not going to Thailand in 2 weeks would be such a loss.

Wow, that's pretty smug.

[Plus]

Just get rid of Thaksin and let PPP govern the country and wait for result of their court trial - the deal is simple.

Somebody has to convey to Thaksin that sponsoring PPP and UDD hasn't paif off in any sense, and never will. He can't stop court cases and resistance is futile. He should cut the losses and let it go.

Once the bulk of PPP realises that they have their own lives now, negotiations and compromise would be all over the place.

[ozterix]

is there any internet TV station in english that broadcast news and messages?

oz

www.thailandoutlook.tv

thanks a lot

oz

[MaiThaiMai]

I think to remove the protesters is legitimate and is the job of the police force...

There are police in Thailand? Could have fooled me...No Police mean no SWAT teams...this is SWAT team Police action removing whoever from whatever that is shutting down Thailand's economy (airport).

This is *NOT* a Military problem (or shouldn't be) at this point, this is clearly Police action, that is, *IF* it *IS* a democracy in LOS...sounds like everybody up top is corrrupt, if that is the case, they who have the most money to buy the best military will win every time...h e l l I was in the process of selling my place to come retire there (IOW spend all my remaining money), I still will unless a civil war breaks out and it most likely will if a *BLOODY* military coup goes down...

I still wouldn't mind coming no matter what, if I could get a flight in that is. We all gotta die sometime, why not die in what I consider one of the finest paradises on earth and that's the shame, the country is being destroyed and by it's own people...

Did somebody say PAD folk were the "educated" ones? Frankly, I have a hard time believing that...

My 2 baht's worth...

MaiThaiMai

[Lopburi99]

I think to remove the protesters is legitimate and is the job of the police force...

There are police in Thailand? Could have fooled me...No Police mean no SWAT teams...this is SWAT team Police action removing whoever from whatever that is shutting down Thailand's economy (airport).

This is *NOT* a Military problem (or shouldn't be) at this point, this is clearly Police action, that is, *IF* it *IS* a democracy in LOS...sounds like everybody up top is corrrupt, if that is the case, they who have the most money to buy the best military will win every time...h e l l I was in the process of selling my place to come retire there (IOW spend all my remaining money), I still will unless a civil war breaks out and it most likely will if a *BLOODY* military coup goes down...

I still wouldn't mind coming no matter what, if I could get a flight in that is. We all gotta die sometime, why not die in what I consider one of the finest paradises on earth and that's the shame, the country is being destroyed and by it's own people...

Did somebody say PAD folk were the "educated" ones? Frankly, I have a hard time believing that...

My 2 baht's worth...

MaiThaiMai

When "20 people were robbed then left abandoned on a bus in the middle of nowhere" (thread on TV). and there were NO criminal charges filed by the police on those responsible, it only speaks of police/government ineptitude and/or corruption. At times Thailand seems not to be a nation of laws. Scary indeed. Makes me worry if the "law" will be there to protect me, if ever needed.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Lopburi99

[MaiThaiMai]

Are Fahrangs eligible to vote for/against coups?

Since when is falang money no good to buy votes, err, goods and services in Thailand?

MaiThaiMai

[jdinasia]

I have been in a small village during elections ... believe me, there were 2 bus waiting!

the villagers would first argue and then decide which bus to take, they would get 500 baht anyway, no matter which bus they take ...

the rural population votes for the PPP because Thaksin has been the first one who has ever done anything for them, to the PAD the rural villagers should be enslaved ... that's why they don't vote for them !

to claim that the democrats don't buy votes is just ridiculous ...

again; you call it vote buying/fraud ... I call it sponsoring of democratic awareness !

keep trying ;-)

Link --- please share for the class what election the PAD ever stood in? They are not a registered political party and have not run in any elections.

[grandpops]

I have been in a small village during elections ... believe me, there were 2 bus waiting!

the villagers would first argue and then decide which bus to take, they would get 500 baht anyway, no matter which bus they take ...

the rural population votes for the PPP because Thaksin has been the first one who has ever done anything for them, to the PAD the rural villagers should be enslaved ... that's why they don't vote for them !

to claim that the democrats don't buy votes is just ridiculous ...

again; you call it vote buying/fraud ... I call it sponsoring of democratic awareness !

keep trying ;-)

Link --- please share for the class what election the PAD ever stood in? They are not a registered political party and have not run in any elections.

Then why don't they <deleted> off then. Be a party and stand or just go away and boil their heads. The PPP is a political party and and Elected on at that. PAD has no rights what soever.

Be part of the system or quit wingeing.

[grandpops]

sorry hit it twice

Edited November 27, 2008 by grandpops

[TAWP]

Then why don't they <deleted> off then. Be a party and stand or just go away and boil their heads. The PPP is a political party and and Elected on at that. PAD has no rights what soever.

Be part of the system or quit wingeing.

So you are saying no-one can protest unless they first lost an election?

That sure will make it hard for you and me if, as you claim PAD and their supporters are xenophobic and want to tighten VISA further further, to make any protests at all. You are effectivly gagging yourself.

I prefer to see it that anyone with any ties to any country in any way, physical, biological or emotional, can protest against anything the government does. That is a persons right.

Anything else is fascism.

[bniff]

Is coup needed? how much would it take for the army to round up the trouble makers and restore law and order??????????

which trouble makers? you mean the somchai cabinet?

get rid of somchai and the PAD disperses and there is no more problem.

much easier to move one man than 50,000

oh,, lets let one percent of one percent of the population dictate the rules of leadership. Monarchy or democracy, lets just go socialism or fasism and admit the truth.

[MaiThaiMai]

I think to remove the protesters is legitimate and is the job of the police force...

There are police in Thailand? Could have fooled me...No Police mean no SWAT teams...this is SWAT team Police action removing whoever from whatever that is shutting down Thailand's economy (airport).

This is *NOT* a Military problem (or shouldn't be) at this point, this is clearly Police action, that is, *IF* it *IS* a democracy in LOS...sounds like everybody up top is corrrupt, if that is the case, they who have the most money to buy the best military will win every time...h e l l I was in the process of selling my place to come retire there (IOW spend all my remaining money), I still will unless a civil war breaks out and it most likely will if a *BLOODY* military coup goes down...

I still wouldn't mind coming no matter what, if I could get a flight in that is. We all gotta die sometime, why not die in what I consider one of the finest paradises on earth and that's the shame, the country is being destroyed and by it's own people...

Did somebody say PAD folk were the "educated" ones? Frankly, I have a hard time believing that...

My 2 baht's worth...

MaiThaiMai

When "20 people were robbed then left abandoned on a bus in the middle of nowhere" (thread on TV). and there were NO criminal charges filed by the police on those responsible, it only speaks of police/government ineptitude and/or corruption. At times Thailand seems not to be a nation of laws. Scary indeed. Makes me worry if the "law" will be there to protect me, if ever needed.

This kind of robbery could happen to any tour bus anywhere in the world while "touring" out in the middle of nowhere but I wouldn't compare it to these Thai jerks causing nationwide grief (on itself) of the highest order short of bloodshed, this is just plain *DUMB* from so-called "educated" types...

Corruption is rampant and everywhere in LOS, I know it and don't even live there and I *DID* see it for myself when I was there this past summer...so if PAD is crying about corruption it is hypocritical at best because chances are they probably got their wealth from their own corrupt activties, that's what makes them "educated", they learned how to work the system to their finacial advantage

MaiThaiMai

[LPCustom69]

I think the fact that the PM is Taksins bother in law, and that there is talk of replacing the bil with the sis, makes most question the leadership qualities even before coming. If leadership is your most important criteria, you probably aren't coming here.

Coup is the last - and worst - option. I will not support it.

After a possible coup - so what? The army has shown before they cannot run the country, and it is not supposed to be their job either. So use the army only to maintain law and order together with the police. And let the elected govt run the country.

This implies to kick out PAD from the airport and parliament house.

It's clear the PAD will not leave the airports unless Somchai is history or the army forcibly removes them. One of these solutions has a violent outcome, the other does not. Which do you think is better for tourism, a protest ending in bloodshed and resentment or a military coup.

I think it is better for tourism, if the elected government is seen to be strong enough to direct the police/army to remove the protesters from ALL of the places it occupies.

The current perception is that Thailand has "Mob Rule", this is no good for any trade be it tourism, business or anything else!

FF

[grandpops]

The Genie is out of the bottle though now and the poor are not going back to the farms to provide children to work in bars, massage parlours and on building sites for the benefit of the Business Elite. Nor are they going to slave away to produce rice at 11baht per kilo for some fat chinese thai "Educated" business man to sell for 100 baht abroad.

All the rural poor have internet access now or friends and family that have it. They know what things cost, they know how much this idle rich make from them and it is definately the begining of the end of the feudal system.

When this PAD coup fails, which it will sooner rather than later whatever happens tonight, the real change will start.

I rising from the left could really have painful consequences for anybody in this business elite and the more chaos and poverty PAD inflict, the more painful it will be for them in their turn.

Watch when the list of PAD supporters is released. Can you imagine if it is big companies like DTAC, TRUE, Bangkok Bank, Siam Commercial and Thaibev that are behind this! There will be violent retribution on most of their outlets here. Can the army protect all these brance offices and outlets in Thailand... No. Can the Army prevent foreign companies takind retribution and suing against their assets. No.

PAD with this last through of the dice for the "educated elite" lose which ever way you look at it. It's just a matter of how long we wait.

Something has changed dramatically this week and even with Coups, Guns, Armies, Tanks and the best efforts of the PAD, there is no going back to the Status Quo!

Edited November 27, 2008 by sbk

[chutai]

Does it seem they are just "coup"ing each other. I'm quite naive with regards to this topic (except I couldn't fly to BKK today) and i'm wondering if the PAD things that the current goverment was wrongfully elected or is it that they just don't like Somchai (who seems to look eerily like Thaksin in my opinion)

Can anyone give me the short, summarized version as to what's going on?

A State of Emergency has been declared where the police are apparently going to deal with the mob who've occupied the the airports. But unsurprisingly not the military.

I'm actually not due to fly out until the 12th of next month - hopefully it'll be all sorted sooner - much sooner; in the next day or so ... could be.

But I got to thinking about my insurance if it were otherwise. I don't think that it covers things like revolutions, etc. How about your own insurance situation regarding this delay ?

[Tafia]

Channel 3 reporting Army spokesman saying tanks in Bangkok are nothing to do with a coup attempt, but are vehicles on their way back from a 'training exercise.'

LOL, that's funny... until one takes into account how many tanks are actually BASED in Bangkok...

Same report on TOC 7pm

[animatic]

A coup is a Banana Republic solution.

Which other solution do you suggest for a Monkey Government?

One coup, everybody will step back and then there is time to think about how to continue? Or do you still believe that PAD and PPP will find an acceptable solution in an acceptable time frame?

The United States of America had a Monkey Government from 2000 - 2004. They stupidly re-elected the Monkey Government again in 2004-2008. Like mature people, the rest of us waited it out until finally we could democratically "overthrow" the Monkey Government in 2008 after a well-run extended campaign in which everyone's views had free expression and the transition of power is orderly. Is that too much to ask?

Again, a coup is an immature short term fix that never really "fixes" it. If a coup really "fixed" the problem, you wouldn't need 17 coups in a row.

A coup teaches the people that...

...the gun is more important than the vote.

...expediency always trumps principle.

...for the Army to own and control most of the important electronic media (4 TV stations, radio, etc.) is an "OK" thing.

...the Army is REALLY the ultimate power that wags the tail of government.

Are you happier with THAT? If you are, you would probably enjoy life much more in Burma where the army finally and permanently "fixed" the problem of political diversity. With every coup, Thailand precariously teeters on the brink of permanently "fixing" things as our SE Asian neighbor has done. Don't forget that Thailand's military brass and Burma's murderous junta have been on "best buddy" terms since just before the 2006 coup. It's just too great a risk, in my opinion.

Yes, democracy is messy, but a coup is a rape of a nation's soul--it flies in the face of 20 centuries of political evolution in which democracy has helped restore value to the voice of the individual, bows to majority rule, and respects the rights of the minority. It doesn't work perfectly, but it's a heck of a lot better than monks and journalists being gunned down in the streets of Rangoon while trying to have the voice of the people heard.

Funny that you use this as an example.

I just had another american, very conservative wish I am safe,

but bemoand the recent Coupe d'Etate in the USA aided and abetted by liberal CNN.

I neglected to mention to him he was deeply up his one butt with myopia...

But it goes to show you the divide than can be between ostensibly civil

and intelligent people, when it comes to nationalism and a countries direction.

If enough dirt had been available to nail Bush it would have been done.

It may still be in the future, we'll see what skeletons he has buried.

The main point is the military still had checks and balances in place,

and some of the worst Bush indiscretions were finally backed off BY

judiciary and legislative methodes, but the world would have been better off

if Bush had fallen sooner...

Thaksin took many of Bush's plays to heart.

Prior to the war going bad critisism was hard to do in USA,

same as UNDER Thaksin Checks and balances of legislative press

and judiciary were jiggered by Bush to benefit his cronies.

For myself I was seeing all that I hated in the Bush tenure

revealing itself slowly but surely as Thaksin's motus operandi.

American had history of military corrections of exectutive misanthropy.

Thailand has and so it is more SOP to do it.

One can but wonder what the world might be like,

if Bush had been removed earlier...

Impeachement, senate conviction and incarceration the preferred methods of course.

Thailand doesn't seem to have that one yet....