Thailand To Negotiate With Protesters

[Plus]

That Thaksin interview was pathetic.

Never mind the drivel about respect for the rule of law from a fugitive with a conviction and six outstanding arrest warrants, the simple fact that it appeared on some blogger's website instead of CNN or at least Al-Jazeera speaks volumes, asdoes the room setting behind him - soma backpackers get better rooms.

It also speaks volumes about this so called journalism - unlike a respectable news organisation the blogger would do any amount of ass kissing to get a famous name on his site - look at the comments after the interview - almost everyone mentions drug war killings, everyone except the Thomas and Interviewer - he's not in the position to ask questions like that, he's just a mouthpiece.

I'd remember this sorry incident when blogs come up here again.

[quiksilva]

There are several possible ends to the current conflict, each of which has been discussed, dissected and rejected here ad nauseum

it should be decided on a penalty shoot out , surely both sides would agree to that.

LOL I know its early but surely a contender for post of the day!

[Martin]

"2. Thailand is suffering the karma of its Bangkok and Central Thai ethnocentric injustice towards the Lao-speaking Isaan people over many, many years. This has improved over the past 30 years or so, but until recently (and still to some extent) Isaan people have been the butt of contempt and neglect. Some of this has been at the hands of their local grandees, who've benefitted by their Bangkok and government-based networks, but generally the Bangkok Thais have not seen their Isaan compatriots as equals. Now they're reaping the harvest of bitterness and mistrust."

That is a very exact, and well-phrased, summary; except that we don't do bitterness----just distaste and disdain----and get on with harvesting the rice.

It is an ill wind that blows no good, however.

I was recently hurrying down to Khon Kaen an€d got caught in a radar trap.

It was open-and-shut; as there is no way of maintaining that 147 kph is 'only a bit' over the limit!!

However, when the traffic cop asked "Pood Thai, mae?", my reply of "Phum Farang Isaan. Farang Isaan mae pood Thai. Farang Isaan pood Lao!" (which means that a northeastern farang doesn't speak the language of those thieving buggers in Bangkok), he gave an approving laugh and let me go.

[grandpops]

Interesting comment I read on another forum, may well have already been posted here so apologies.

Based on the ideology of the PAD , are these protesters or whatever you want to call them demonstrating to achieve less democracy?

Would that not dramatically reduce their rights to legitimate protest in the future?

Thats the point. If the elite use PAD to get Thaksin out and their aging muppets in thats on thing.

If they they turn on Sondhi and he tries this with them they will kill him instantly. They would't wait for him to inflict this damage with them in charge.

Perhaps a glimmer of light is that this if affecting PAD supporters much much worse than Thaksins poor farmering supporters in the north. I have yet to see farmers being unable to get to work!! Yet to hear of local businesses in Buri Ram hurting with lost tourist revenue and cancellations. No Bitching in Pai about Fed-Ex not getting through.

Sure everybody is affected, but really, its the Democrat areas of the South Phuket and The Bangkok "oh so Educated" Business sectors of Bangkok that will take the real hits. Sure factory jobs, maids jobs and "entertainment Girls jobs" will take a hit but these people are poor all their lives as well as historically.

There is no real loss there to the poor, and in the long term if this Educated Rich find themselves broken on the wheel of the PAD, the poor stand to gain in the long term when Thakisin comes back. When not if now Sondhi and its only a matter of time before somebody very very rich starts ringing round Nakornsithamorats gun for hire community!

Yes its the rich that are going to pick up the tab for this. Probably better leave the PAD there until they have pissed of every single Thai in the country, then shoot them. Hopefully, plenty of "rich Educated" will be getting their houses and cars re-possessed and perhaps having to sell their selves to slobbering falangs to make ends meet.

EDIT - well said Martin above. this could turn out very badly for the rich... I do hope so

Edited November 29, 2008 by grandpops

[topsecret]

Do we have to start in with labelling PAD as terrorists in yet another thred, they are nothing of the sort.

Using terrorist means to over throw a democratically elected government means they are terrorists.

The PAD have now put me out of business. I'll get over it but how many Thais are on the verge of bankruptcy?

Perhaps the country will soon be known as the 'Land of Idiots'. The PM's request for the police to remove the protesters by 'gentle means' typifies the absurdity of the Thai Psyche (trying to save face and not offend anyone) when faced with a seriously confrontational situation.

When terrorists (of any discription) take over a country's main airport, a government must react swiftly and decisively. Gentle means are no longer an option.

Personally i detest the PAD, but I have now lost any little faith I had in the current government to restore law and order.

No matter what happens, I fear there WILL be bloodshed in Thailand on a scale never seen before in modern times.

[jts-khorat]

What I'm missing in the OP article, posted by Sabaijai, is the part in the end in the TIME article, (see link above):

"The Bangkok Post quoted experts as saying that the damage from the airport shutdown could range between 134 billion baht and 215 billion baht ($3.7 billion and $6 billion) if the standoff extends to December. The meeting and convention business has already suffered losses of 11 billion baht ($310 million), it said."

I'm a bit surprised that the supposedly PAD supporting Elite (and even higher up), next to the middle class (without as much power as the Elite), are still not calling upon withdrawing Sondhi's PAD ''protesters'' in order to re-open the airports...This is not the decision of Sondhi cs alone anymore. It's way more complex than that.

It is quite obvious that this whole PAD movement has support from high up, but at the same time the damage is growing into monstrous proportions and this must be hitting the Elite and middle calsses very seriously also.

If one only realizes that the TOTAL income from tourism in Thailand (by 14.4 million tourists) is $ 15,6 Billion, the above mentioned losses of between $ 3,7 and $ 6 Billion are becoming so enormous that most businesses (read: the Elite) will call upon a total withdraw of the PAD very soon.

LaoPo

Food for thought:

if you woul'd have known beforehand what would happen, it would not become a monstrous loss, but a monstrous 'buying opportunity' after all competition has been wiped out.

[dominique355]

The longer this airport siege is lasting the more people will suffer and loose money; not just THAI Airways, but also the simple farmer who cannot get their fruits shipped to Europe, USA etc. Of course also the industry, who cannot deliver and cannot get part etc., not to mention tourism.

More and more people, businesses and the country as a whole will suffer and will blame PAD. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of PAD.

Maybe that's also the reason why the present government is simply doing nothing.

On the other hand, when the government did not react to the seizure of the government house, they practically invited PAD to go on, do what they want. The policy of avoiding conflict at all cost is getting absurd.

What will PAD do next? Occupy military installations and getting weapons?

[JUDAS]

Just logged on and looks like it's another day of no action and rhetoric. Same, same.....

[Jazzmaster]

How many more days do the domestic terrorists get to occupy and hold hostage a major International Airport????. Negotiating with terrorists almost never works........and the band played on.......

[Jomtien]

I hope parties will come together soon and the PM will step down.

But to all the people here who not agree with the actions of the PAD,

if in the country you where born, family of a convicted criminal (on widespread corruption charges) is pushed by influential friends to become PM, what would you do? Just accept?

Don’t think so…… you would stand up, and protest those actions taken by your ‘government.’

Jomtien

[janneman]

Yes its the rich that are going to pick up the tab for this. Probably better leave the PAD there until they have pissed of every single Thai in the country, then shoot them. Hopefully, plenty of "rich Educated" will be getting their houses and cars re-possessed and perhaps having to sell their selves to slobbering falangs to make ends meet.

EDIT - well said Martin above. this could turn out very badly for the rich... I do hope so

Not so much the "unusual rich"but more so the whole middle class will suffer. And these are generally the biggest supporters of democracy.

[Carib]

How many more days do the domestic terrorists get to occupy and hold hostage a major International Airport????. Negotiating with terrorists almost never works........and the band played on.......

Neither does starting wars, most of the world have known that for a long time already, some are still learning.

[janneman]

How many more days do the domestic terrorists get to occupy and hold hostage a major International Airport????. Negotiating with terrorists almost never works........and the band played on.......

Hasn't anybody thought of cutting off all utilities to the airport? Electricity, water - possibly mobile phone system etc. That would drive them out eventually......

[old wanderer]

Here is the latest new I just got from my wife (Now there is an un-impeachable source)

1. Thaskin has flown from Dubai to Hong Kong and is presently there. (Note the interview he did today, and the location of the blogger....)

2. He has ordered the police to silence ASTV....If Sonthi gets shot...well he asked for it.

It appears that the negotiations between the riot police and the Airport group has swung again in favor of the PAD.

Situation around Suvarnabhumi airport became tense on Saturday morning after police set up barriers and checkpoints on all roads leading to the airport to prevent more protesters from coming to the airport.

The measures were implemented after Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat issued state of emergency issued on Don Muang and Suvarnabhumi Airports which were under seizure of the protesters since last week.

However the protesters managed to make police retreat from all roads after about half and hour heated negotiation.

A protester leader dismissed a report by manager online that police fired at protesters.

They may have also seized 2 of the police riot vehicles.

Edited November 29, 2008 by old wanderer

[Thaddeus]

well said Martin above.

Agreed.

I live in a small town in lower Isaan and life here is carrying on pretty much as it always has done, every time there has been a 'crisis' in Bangkok my neighbours have just shrugged and got on with what they were doing. The closest I have seen to any vocal opposition so far was a friends wife watching the news on Television and she just said the Lao equivalent of "stupid c**nts" and her attention then returned to the food she was eating.

Isaan people do have more than a grain of sense.

People here are just too busy, the rice harvest will be coming to an end soon, but then the sugar cane harvest gets in to full swing..... neither of those product fly, they sail, so the current actions have no direct effect on them (it may do later, but that's tomorrow, boh pben yang dork)

The yellow shirted sheeple are doing more damage to the people that they really despise than they ever could.

[Seneque]

Yes Thailand is (will) losing a lot of money ... and so what ... why is it always about money (the actual world financial collapse is far more damaging)... could we look at this a little further and then perhaps realise that here comes an opportunity for a REAL revolution in Thailand ...

Is it the chance to reset this country and get it out of middle age social, political behaviors ...

Most Thais are sensible, reasonable, compassionate people ... they want to have a normal life under the governance of well thought policies adapted to their way of life. Thais are tired of endemic corruption and political racketeering.

Has the time come for a revolution ? it may be the solution, it will be painful but the reward might be beyond most of their expectations... During these times always emerge someone with a genuine ideology.

[Jazzmaster]

Now..if only Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Jimmy Carter were to show up at the airport....this surrealistic acid trip would be complete!!!

Free Tibet, Free Burma, Free Thailand

[Plus]

I live in a small town in lower Isaan and life here is carrying on pretty much as it always has done, every time there has been a 'crisis' in Bangkok my neighbours have just shrugged and got on with what they were doing. The closest I have seen to any vocal opposition so far was a friends wife watching the news on Television and she just said the Lao equivalent of "stupid c**nts" and her attention then returned to the food she was eating.

Actually Thaddeus, your little story supports the case that Isanese should be excluded from political process altogether.

Country's main airport closed - mai pen rai, lets get back to food.

They just don't give a <deleted>, do they?

That's one more argument for "new politics" - let them select representatives from fellow rice farmers so they'd vote for something they have direct stake in, maybe that will make them interested in political process. Voting for a generic MP to do whatever he pleases up in Bangkok clearly doesn't work.

[shunima]

Yes Thailand is (will) losing a lot of money ... and so what ... why is it always about money (the actual world financial collapse is far more damaging)... could we look at this a little further and then perhaps realise that here comes an opportunity for a REAL revolution in Thailand ...

Is it the chance to reset this country and get it out of middle age social, political behaviors ...

Most Thais are sensible, reasonable, compassionate people ... they want to have a normal life under the governance of well thought policies adapted to their way of life. Thais are tired of endemic corruption and political racketeering.

Has the time come for a revolution ? it may be the solution, it will be painful but the reward might be beyond most of their expectations... During these times always emerge someone with a genuine ideology.

WHOOOA wake up boy even if you like this dream a lot. Do you really think that Sonthi & Co. are after a country with democratic values? They want back what was taken from them under the Thaksin regime. Simple as that. Bangkok elite does not like the butter on northern breads & pocktes of telecom tycoons as it makes their own bread taste kind of dry.

[Thaddeus]

I live in a small town in lower Isaan and life here is carrying on pretty much as it always has done, every time there has been a 'crisis' in Bangkok my neighbours have just shrugged and got on with what they were doing. The closest I have seen to any vocal opposition so far was a friends wife watching the news on Television and she just said the Lao equivalent of "stupid c**nts" and her attention then returned to the food she was eating.

Actually Thaddeus, your little story supports the case that Isanese should be excluded from political process altogether.

Country's main airport closed - mai pen rai, lets get back to food.

They just don't give a <deleted>, do they?

That's one more argument for "new politics" - let them select representatives from fellow rice farmers so they'd vote for something they have direct stake in, maybe that will make them interested in political process. Voting for a generic MP to do whatever he pleases up in Bangkok clearly doesn't work.

Would they be allowed to do that in a shift towards 'New Politics'? ...... I doubt that very much, so do they.

And we are straying off topic.

[neverdie]

What a joke!

One of the most important factors of a successful cell extraction is to make sure the receipiant feels as if he or she has been removed from a cell! This rule applies to all these types of situations.

There is absolutely no point in sending one or two, or even one or two hundred police who are most likely poorly equipted and trained to carry out a job of this scale.

Perhaps Thailand has forgotten the entire world is watching now......oooops there I go again, I forgot the thais don't give a dam_n about what mere 'farangs' might think....afterall what would a farang know?

[TheJoker]

I think somebody needs to make a phone call right now.....

[britmaveric]

I hope parties will come together soon and the PM will step down.

But to all the people here who not agree with the actions of the PAD,

if in the country you where born, family of a convicted criminal (on widespread corruption charges) is pushed by influential friends to become PM, what would you do? Just accept?

Don’t think so…… you would stand up, and protest those actions taken by your ‘government.’

Jomtien

But those protesting are thugs/criminals who have a bloody history. PAD are scum and supporters are bought. Not much different than what they are whinging about - pretty ironic.

[sabaijai]

There are several possible ends to the current conflict, each of which has been discussed, dissected and rejected here ad nauseum The Thais will come up with a solution -- if only temporary. Some say the only longterm solution is something along the lines of what the PAD are proposing, ie, half the national assembly appointed and half elected, like the UK had until relatively recently. Many Thais support the idea while most Western democracy advocates do not.

I hope you're right Sabaijai, but the weakness in your argument is that "The Thais" are now no longer one (if they ever were?), and numerous chances to "come up with a solution" have been squandered over the last few months to sort the gathering storm out amicably. As long as Mr T is lording it over his elites and another set of elites are protecting their interests, while the middle classes and politically engaged poor are not pleased with the uneasy status quo that existed up until August and the taking of Govt House, then finding a mutually acceptable "middle way" is going to be a darn hard act to muster.

The only thing that is clear is that past "democracy" versions have only been pale imitations of the real thing and that the No. 1 priority is the establishment of an independent judiciary, as the primary building block. I've noticed that there are more "People's Politics" advocates in Thailand than many other countries and just wonder how many of them are still supporting the PAD. That Ji Ungpakhorn has become so virulently anti-PAD, while somebody like Prawase Wasi is a firm supporter shows how split the nation is these days. I can imagine that a lot of old allies are so factionalised these days, that they might even have problems talking to each other in the future. This is a big concern for anyone who truly cares about Thailand's future.

I agree. This is why the PAD is advocating a mixed assembly where all the factions have representation. It could be a miserable failure. But would it be any more miserable than the continued cycle of coup/constitution/election/protest/coup etc?

The irony is that the PAD are very much a link in the very cycle they hope to break. It's like the 'war to end all wars' or 'the coup to end all coups.'

[neverdie]

lol to thejoker

[Insight]

I live in a small town in lower Isaan and life here is carrying on pretty much as it always has done, every time there has been a 'crisis' in Bangkok my neighbours have just shrugged and got on with what they were doing. The closest I have seen to any vocal opposition so far was a friends wife watching the news on Television and she just said the Lao equivalent of "stupid c**nts" and her attention then returned to the food she was eating.

Actually Thaddeus, your little story supports the case that Isanese should be excluded from political process altogether.

Country's main airport closed - mai pen rai, lets get back to food.

They just don't give a <deleted>, do they?

That's one more argument for "new politics" - let them select representatives from fellow rice farmers so they'd vote for something they have direct stake in, maybe that will make them interested in political process. Voting for a generic MP to do whatever he pleases up in Bangkok clearly doesn't work.

Would they be allowed to do that in a shift towards 'New Politics'? ...... I doubt that very much, so do they.

And we are straying off topic.

I think it's pretty reassuring actually. Please correct me if I'm wrong Thad, but it doesn't match what were lead to believe from the usual Thaksin/PPP propaganda machine about the humble north being up in arms, ready to don red shirts and kick the beep out of anything wearing a hint of yellow...? Instead people, like the rest of the country, are just getting on with it hoping for a peaceful outcome?

[old wanderer]

Let me push this thread back on topic:

Chamlong also added that the People's Alliance for Democracy is willing to negotiate with the government but it must be done face to face and not via telephone.

This is a quote from within the hour....

Also I really do not understand why nobody is talking much about the Court moving up the corruption trial of the PPP to Tuesday Dec 2. The court is not allowing further testimony, stating it has enough evidence to reach a conclusion.

So the current government may be out in just a few more days.

As to all the people theorizing about why the police or military will not get their hands bloody....well if the person giving the orders may well be out of power in a few days, they who wants to stick their neck out.

[Thaddeus]

I think it's pretty reassuring actually. Please correct me if I'm wrong Thad, but it doesn't match what were lead to believe from the usual Thaksin/PPP propaganda machine about the humble north being up in arms, ready to don red shirts and kick the beep out of anything wearing a hint of yellow...? Instead people, like the rest of the country, are just getting on with it hoping for a peaceful outcome?

Well, obviously, I can't speak for all of Isaan, but I am yet to see any pick-ups loaded with red shirts here, and I pray that that is representative of the whole area.

(but I haven't seen a yellow shirt since last Monday either)

Edited November 29, 2008 by Thaddeus

[Insight]

I think it's pretty reassuring actually. Please correct me if I'm wrong Thad, but it doesn't match what were lead to believe from the usual Thaksin/PPP propaganda machine about the humble north being up in arms, ready to don red shirts and kick the beep out of anything wearing a hint of yellow...? Instead people, like the rest of the country, are just getting on with it hoping for a peaceful outcome?

Well, obviously, I can't speak for all of Isaan, but I am yet to see any pick-ups loaded with red shirts here, and I pray that that is representative of the whole area.

(but I haven't seen a yellow shirt since last Monday either)

Understood - Thanks Thaddeus.

[dtarasin]

Do we have to start in with labelling PAD as terrorists in yet another thred, they are nothing of the sort.

or insurgent or freedom fighter: a rebel

www.bigpedia.com/encyclopedia/List_of_euphemisms

One who utilizes the systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve political objectives, while disguised as a civilian non-combatant. ...

www.aeroflight.co.uk/definitions.htm

One who engages in the unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence individually or with an organized group against people or property with ...

nallaseth.com/documents/GlossaryS-W.htm

often names for rebel, revolutionary, or folk heroes, especially by oppressive governments

www.startsurfing.com/encyclopedia/d/o/u/Doublespeak.html

The use of - or threatened use of - criminal violence against civilians or civilian infrastructure to achieve political ends through fear and intimidation, rather than direct confrontation. ...

www.readycolorado.com/glossary.php

IMHO, ever since the PAD took over Suvarnaphum, they became terrorists.