Better Cultivation Of Rice In Issan.

[karstenf]

Better cultivation of rice in Issan.

My family has a small farm; they grow rice, among other things. The yield is not satisfactory.

We've tried to switch crops. It helped somewhat.

We harvesters about 300 to 400Kg per 1600m2.

We started to harvest with machine.

We will at some point try with seeding machine

It is very hard to get labour in the harvest period.

I have a feeling that the soil is acidic; the number of earthworms is low.

I think that we need a much better seeds.

My plan to improve the yield:

1. We must perform a soil analysis.
   
2. We must probably supplies lime or possibly dolomite lime.
   
3. We must make a fertilizer plan.
   
4. We must make a soil improvement plan.
   
5. We must get out and find (buy) new seed.
   
6. We need a type of rice that is suitable for mechanical sowing and harvesting.
   
7. We need a type of rice that still is tasty.
   

It should be possible to achieve a yield of approx. 800 to 900Kg per 1600m2 without it becoming very expensive to cultivate rice. This shut make a better economy.

My question which I am working with right now is:

Who can make a good soil analysis; I can possibly get results in English.

What does it cost?

How can we get (pay) contact to an agricultural consultant, who can help us? Preferably an English specking agricultural consultant.

What does it cost?

Where can I find a good / adequate seeds? From a private company or?

What is the cost of seeds per Kg.? What does it cost per Kg?

The cost shut indeed bee covered by a larger dividend.

Is there anything that can help with these issues?

Is there anything I have overlooked?

Is there something we should try first?

I've tried to read many of the old threads but can not find answers on my questions.

If I have overlooked a similar question / answer so please forgives me, because English is not my first language, I am from Denmark. It is not always easy to find the right search keywords in a new technical area.

Please point me to other threads on this subject.

Please point me to search keywords on this subject.

When I find answers I try to post them here.

When we get results on the work/seeking I will try to write a post of our experience.

The Danish government has called for a reduced use of fertilizers in several years. The Danish farmers have worked with cultivating of grain. Today, the have a significantly better yield with less use of fertilizer. The have switched to using only first and second generation of new hybrids. That means a high cost for seeds, but it does provide better returns and economy. The same trend may be possible with rice in Thailand. This is what I will try.

In advance thank you very much.

Karsten

[Foreverford]

Better cultivation of rice in Issan.

My family has a small farm; they grow rice, among other things. The yield is not satisfactory.

We've tried to switch crops. It helped somewhat.

We harvesters about 300 to 400Kg per 1600m2.

We started to harvest with machine.

We will at some point try with seeding machine

It is very hard to get labour in the harvest period.

I have a feeling that the soil is acidic; the number of earthworms is low.

I think that we need a much better seeds.

My plan to improve the yield:

1. We must perform a soil analysis.
   
2. We must probably supplies lime or possibly dolomite lime.
   
3. We must make a fertilizer plan.
   
4. We must make a soil improvement plan.
   
5. We must get out and find (buy) new seed.
   
6. We need a type of rice that is suitable for mechanical sowing and harvesting.
   
7. We need a type of rice that still is tasty.
   

It should be possible to achieve a yield of approx. 800 to 900Kg per 1600m2 without it becoming very expensive to cultivate rice. This shut make a better economy.

My question which I am working with right now is:

Who can make a good soil analysis; I can possibly get results in English.

What does it cost?

How can we get (pay) contact to an agricultural consultant, who can help us? Preferably an English specking agricultural consultant.

What does it cost?

Where can I find a good / adequate seeds? From a private company or?

What is the cost of seeds per Kg.? What does it cost per Kg?

The cost shut indeed bee covered by a larger dividend.

Is there anything that can help with these issues?

Is there anything I have overlooked?

Is there something we should try first?

I've tried to read many of the old threads but can not find answers on my questions.

If I have overlooked a similar question / answer so please forgives me, because English is not my first language, I am from Denmark. It is not always easy to find the right search keywords in a new technical area.

Please point me to other threads on this subject.

Please point me to search keywords on this subject.

When I find answers I try to post them here.

When we get results on the work/seeking I will try to write a post of our experience.

The Danish government has called for a reduced use of fertilizers in several years. The Danish farmers have worked with cultivating of grain. Today, the have a significantly better yield with less use of fertilizer. The have switched to using only first and second generation of new hybrids. That means a high cost for seeds, but it does provide better returns and economy. The same trend may be possible with rice in Thailand. This is what I will try.

In advance thank you very much.

Karsten

Welcome. Issan is a rather large area, where are you located?

[Foreverford]

Better cultivation of rice in Issan.

My family has a small farm; they grow rice, among other things. The yield is not satisfactory.

We've tried to switch crops. It helped somewhat.

We harvesters about 300 to 400Kg per 1600m2.

We started to harvest with machine.

We will at some point try with seeding machine

It is very hard to get labour in the harvest period.

I have a feeling that the soil is acidic; the number of earthworms is low.

I think that we need a much better seeds.

My plan to improve the yield:

1. We must perform a soil analysis.
   
2. We must probably supplies lime or possibly dolomite lime.
   
3. We must make a fertilizer plan.
   
4. We must make a soil improvement plan.
   
5. We must get out and find (buy) new seed.
   
6. We need a type of rice that is suitable for mechanical sowing and harvesting.
   
7. We need a type of rice that still is tasty.
   

It should be possible to achieve a yield of approx. 800 to 900Kg per 1600m2 without it becoming very expensive to cultivate rice. This shut make a better economy.

My question which I am working with right now is:

Who can make a good soil analysis; I can possibly get results in English.

What does it cost?

How can we get (pay) contact to an agricultural consultant, who can help us? Preferably an English specking agricultural consultant.

What does it cost?

Where can I find a good / adequate seeds? From a private company or?

What is the cost of seeds per Kg.? What does it cost per Kg?

The cost shut indeed bee covered by a larger dividend.

Is there anything that can help with these issues?

Is there anything I have overlooked?

Is there something we should try first?

I've tried to read many of the old threads but can not find answers on my questions.

If I have overlooked a similar question / answer so please forgives me, because English is not my first language, I am from Denmark. It is not always easy to find the right search keywords in a new technical area.

Please point me to other threads on this subject.

Please point me to search keywords on this subject.

When I find answers I try to post them here.

When we get results on the work/seeking I will try to write a post of our experience.

The Danish government has called for a reduced use of fertilizers in several years. The Danish farmers have worked with cultivating of grain. Today, the have a significantly better yield with less use of fertilizer. The have switched to using only first and second generation of new hybrids. That means a high cost for seeds, but it does provide better returns and economy. The same trend may be possible with rice in Thailand. This is what I will try.

In advance thank you very much.

Karsten

Welcome. Issan is a rather large area, where are you located?

OOPS (newbie me) also how many rai do you have?

[karstenf]

The farm is located in Maha Sharakam.

Currently we use about. 35 rai for farming rice.

Karsten

[Thai at Heart]

Many areas of Isaan are saline, that is the first and most important issue you must discover. Govt and private companies have been doing salinity test for years. I am sure there is something in the local agriculture office that will give you a guideline.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[Maizefarmer]

........ and also speak to as many farmers in your area as you can. There'll be lots who have been at it all their lives and their experiance will be very valauble.

Your statement regards the possibility of been able to harvest 800-900kg's per year versus the cost, is a very valid and an important point to understand.

Yes, there are things that could be done to improve yield, but many of them incurr extra cost(s), and its understanding whether or not the extra cost will be recoup'd come harvest time that determines whether or not its worth the effort to undertake whatever it is that is going to give you that extra yield.

Have the same problem with diary cows - it is possible to get 30 kg's plus of milk p/day from a good diary cow in Thailand, the problem is that to achieve that consistantly, the cost of "maintaining" a cow to produce that amount will leave the farmer with less money than he'd earn "maintaining" the cow to produce 10kg's per day!

What you need to keep in mind is that most North/North Eastern rice farmers grow rice not because its the first thing they'd like to grow, but because of the combination of geography and climate it just so happens that rice is the best crop to grow on such a large scale where they are - so thats what they grow, and other than for the high prices achieved in 2008, it is for many of them of them a constant struggle to make ends meet.

What about "poly-culture": mixing other products with rice growing - like fish, or freshwater prawns, fresh water crabs: I don't know much about the subject, but I do know it is practised in parts of Thailand with varying degrees of success. Thats something that may be worth investigating(?)

I wish you well.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Maizefarmer

[Foreverford]

........ and also speak to as many farmers in your area as you can. There'll be lots who have been at it all their lives and their experiance will be very valauble.

Your statement regards the possibility of been able to harvest 800-900kg's per year versus the cost, is a very valid and an important point to understand.

Yes, there are things that could be done to improve yield, but many of them incurr extra cost(s), and its understanding whether or not the extra cost will be recoup'd come harvest time that determines whether or not its worth the effort to undertake whatever it is that is going to give you that extra yield.

Have the same problem with diary cows - it is possible to get 30 kg's plus of milk p/day from a good diary cow in Thailand, the problem is that to achieve that consistantly, the cost of "maintaining" a cow to produce that amount will leave the farmer with less money than he'd earn "maintaining" the cow to produce 10kg's per day!

What you need to keep in mind is that most North/North Eastern rice farmers grow rice not because its the first thing they'd like to grow, but because of the combination of geography and climate it just so happens that rice is the best crop to grow on such a large scale where they are - so thats what they grow, and other than for the high prices achieved in 2008, it is for many of them of them a constant struggle to make ends meet.

What about "poly-culture": mixing other products with rice growing - like fish, or freshwater prawns, fresh water crabs: I don't know much about the subject, but I do know it is practised in parts of Thailand with varying degrees of success. Thats something that may be worth investigating(?)

I wish you well.

Maizefarmer is correct. We managed between 4-500 kilos a rai in a very very abnormally wet (4+ foot tall rice went under 7 feet of water once and then again to "once in a lifetime rains" and klong levees that blew out). That turned out about 22 tons of rice and as I could figure it we lost only a 1/4 million baht this year (I threw in a bit of depreciation for the tractor and other equipment). This is my first year getting involved in the family farming and we purchased two additional farms and leased aqnother to bring the rai up to 55+. It always seemed that in the previous 5 years they were always losing money growing rice and that is probably why the mortgage on the father-in-laws farm has gotten to the point that something has to change or he'll lose it for sure. Karsten 35 rai is no small farm by our standards. What kind of equipment do you have and do you have at least one or two folks that you can depend on to operate it at anytime? The minimum is a real kwai or a two wheeled Thai "buffalo" diesel tractor. Cover crops are an excellent way to make any earth more viable and you'll see the subject discussed under Green manure seeds that I started a few months ago, there are alot of good links there to look at. I feel that probably 900 kilos a rai is easily doable and if you plan on investing the time and money on equipment, research and seed then profit is a possibility. The key to making it profitable for us I believe is in the planting process as the traditional hand seedling transplanting is an instant ticket to losing money as I see it. We made about 50,000 baht on ten rai that I removed all the levees and planted (levelling that piece is the next major undertaking) the one parcel with a couple of guys in a few hours by broadcast seeding (in the Sacramento Valley in California while catfishing i watched them plant their rice with an airplane) and discing with an 18 blade adjustable disc-harrow and and a 3 meter wide X 5 meter long piece of cyclone fencing attached to 2, 3 meter long 8x8 pieces of rosewood dragged behind. That was the parcel that survived the extensive multiple flooding others that planted traditionally didn't plant for a few months later (yeah we were lucky, very lucky with early rains) and many of their parcels were destroyed. With hand planting of a parcel the cost are extremely high and if you don't have a good year for whatever the reason you are going to lose big. Broadcast seeding eliminates that huge amount of overhead cost. Still after seeing all the farmers in Kenya cut down their perfectly good cashew trees because they couldn't find buyers and start to farm cotton and too many other farmers in other places trying to make it and not doing so, I would never ever take on farming here in Thailand unless it was in Issan growing Hom Mali and growing it with sustainable and organic methods. You could give me all the land in Nakon Pathom to Ratchaburi to grow rice two to three times a year and grow it organically and I wouldn't touch it with a Ford 8n or a fleet of new 120hp Ford (well actually older ones are better) FWD tractors. It just doesn't make any economic sense. Like Maize said maybe you might try poly-culture, we're going to pump down the pond on our new farm and probably end up with at least a 55 gallon drum full of snakefish to be sold and bartered. The water will be used to plant another cover crop of green manure. It's all a big gamble a bunch of time and research and money and just tons of hard work and if nature doesn't co-operate then sometimes all of the above don't matter at all. I hope this helps I'll look on the map to see where you are though it appears to be somewhere near Korat I think. Good luck. Remember 30-40 years ago there was nothing but organic farming (maybe not sustainable as we see it now) so it can and will work but to get started can be very expensive for the average Thai farmer but times will change and it will continue to grow as more people can be held up as examples of its viability. Choke dee as I always say you can never have enough Choke Dee.

[JungleBiker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_of_Rice_Intensification

[karstenf]

Thank you for answers and the good wishes for our future.

We have one lake of one rai and 2 small ponds with fish.

We have a small group of cows.

We study the growing vegetables and breeding of frogs.

We have around 500 rubber trees.

We have around 600 gisanare trees.

We try to run the farm with a diversified production. It takes time and training of my family.

My wife and I have been working on this now for 7 years. Our part is controlled from Denmark and with visit to Thailand.

My wife's brother and sister's family work on the farm.

We expect to expand our production by lessee of family farming land (from grandfather generation).

I expect that over time it should be used more than 100 rai land for a farm in Thailand, if the development occurs in the same way as in Denmark. The historical development is similar to each other in several ways.

We have about 50 to 75% increase in turnover per year. It is just at the limit of what the family can cope with, with their current knowledge (more education).

This year we had a yield of approx. 12,000 Kg of rice. It gave a slight surplus. It probably requires that we has up around 50 rai with the same yield, if we most have a surplus which can also pay for our machines.

We try with 2-3 rai with an extra crop of rice. I have counted on the use of seeding as opposed to planting. I have not come to anything in conclusion. It is not essay to understand, that it provides a better economic returns, although it might provide less yield measured in Kg.

We have both an old 2 wheel tractor and a newer 4 wheel 40hp kubuta tractor.

Our harvesting machine is also a less used kubuta.

I expect that machines will be able to pay themselves around. 5 to 7 years.

When we need a big tractor, to heavy farm work, we pay ourselves from it.

Our machines are also working to a lesser extent for our families' land in return for payment.

The council to ask the nearest neighbors is used, but the grandfather generation, that is left, is unfortunately not trained for a mechanized agriculture. They also have only a yield of approx. 300 to 400Kg rice per rai. If they could do it better, then I think that they have done that. Some types of changes require, unfortunately, also investment capital.

The issue of separation of salt is appropriate. There are some small signs of salt crystals.

The question then, is how it should be handled. It is said that the way to irrigated has significance. I think it could be some chemical conditions. It could also be some prehistoric reasons.

Is there a State recognized agricultural training in Thailand?

In Denmark, The farmers are working hard with organic farming methods for agricultural production. It is something which I myself trying to learn from.

I hope that the sharing of knowledge can give us all a good future.

Happy new year to all.

Karsten

[karstenf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_of_Rice_Intensification

This is a good link.

Look at to at this page SRI on BBC

It looks like just my thoughts. However, I like to use a seed drills in the same way used in a Danish wheat field. In the long run I have not labor enough to use move seedlings from the nursery to the filed.

It is something which I will try next year.

[Foreverford]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_of_Rice_Intensification

This is a good link.

Look at to at this page SRI on BBC

It looks like just my thoughts. However, I like to use a seed drills in the same way used in a Danish wheat field. In the long run I have not labor enough to use move seedlings from the nursery to the filed.

It is something which I will try next year.

It will be an interesting concept that should be very successful for the small scale farmer and it is amazing that it hasn't been incorporated more here in Thailand. Obviously there are going to be many farms that won't be able to keep the water off their fields (we harvested one farm in more than a foot of leech infested water) but we will see even in those areas if the spacing methods are beneficial. KaRSTEN REMEMBERR this is going to be EXTREMELY labor intensive as you will have both the high water tolerant types of weeds and the others that will thrive in drier conditions. I believe labor is a big issue for you but there may be a way along with drilling seeds and the application and removal of flood irrigation, if possible, that you may be able to incorporate the best of many methods to optimize your production with a limited labor force. Good luck also flood irrigation definitely brings up salts in salty soils.

[tig28]

Better cultivation of rice in Issan.

My family has a small farm; they grow rice, among other things. The yield is not satisfactory.

Hi karstenf

Foreverford sums it up very well --- I am new to this and still trying to come to terms with many of the same problems. My belief re improving production by planting methods is the same as FF--- in our region there is no crop irrigation --- totally reliant on rain fall -- so for the average farmer here the risk involved in the increased cost of hand planting seedlings (dum nar) is unacceptable.

The result is that crops are planted in the least costly method ---- by hand scattering seed (wan cow) ...... then when the weather is the farmers enemy --- he has less to loose.

Our own crop this year was "seed scatter" we achieved about 360Kg per rai. A friend nearby used the "seedling plant" method He achieved about 680Kg per rai.

As far as assistance goes look closely at this site: http://www.ldd.go.th/indexEng50.htm

Soil tests--advice---Very Very good--free---cannot do enough to help (here at least) This excerpt may oversell their abilities --- but its a nice target ----- they can and will help.

Here is a section from their site----

Land Development : A Fundamental of Sustainable Agriculture

Land Development Department Services

Soil Consultant : Doctor Soils

1. What is a Doctor Soils?

Soil is like a living thing. Living thing can sick as well as soil also. Person who cure their patient we call "Doctor" namely Surgeon, Ophthalmologist, Dentist. So that person who cure soil we should call "Doctor Soils"

Land Development Department has a function about soil for richness and the highest utility for agriculture. It has staff more over 4,000 manpowers which include expert in each field 2,000 persons. These people service knowledge and look on soil total areas. From their responsibility we call them "Soil Doctor"

2. Which kind of Doctor Soils?

Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperative has strategy with soil and fertilizer development. Its has purpose to help farmers using chemical fertilizer mixture with organic fertilizer.

Farmers could manage their landuse plan by themselves. Land Development Department classified "Doctor Soils" on experience in 5 groups.

• Soil Hospital
  
• Mobile Soil Clinic
  
• Motion Doctor Soils
  
• Bare Foot Doctor Soils
  
• Volunteer
  

3. Doctor Soils activities?

Types 1 - 4 They have same activities, it different only theirs experience and level of problems such as "Bare Foot Doctor" is a base person who is staff of Land Development Department where scatter all country about 190 stations. Bare Foot Doctors service farmers at village the same as Doctor type 2 and 3. But "Bare Foot Doctor" has uncomplicated equipment for soil analysis and they solve at least basic problems.

4. How do you can get service?

Land Development Department put "Bare Foot Doctor" in each village every year, each year 5,340 villages, for service farmers especially poor village. Office of Land Developmet in each province inform that which village is target village and when they will get service. In case of farmers have problem facing, they acquire direct to office of Land Development in Province. Or farmers can collected their soil sample and send it direct to Office of Land Development which close to their home.

5. What do you gain from Doctor Soils service

You will know..

What kind of soil in your farm or your village, what kind of soil problem?

Which plants suit for your soil type? Which plants should be cultivate?

Which fertilizer able to use, how much?

Simplify and costless service for soil and fertilizer analysis

Consultant for soil utility, soil and water conservation and soil improvement

You have "self agriculture planing" strategy

You have opportunity of some service as seed for soil covering, seed for soil conservation and accelerated substance for decompose.

Land Development station Maha Sarakham haeng Sanit Road Km. 72 - 73,

Tambon Kaeng Loeng Jarn, Amphoe Muang,

Maha Sarakham 44000

Tel. 043-777-212 Fax. 043-777-612 C

cheers--- tig

[karstenf]

Today we have contacted:

Land Development Station Maha Sarakham adhering Sanit Road Km. 72 - 73

Tambon Kaeng Loeng Jarn, Amphoe Muang,

Maha Sarakham 44000

Tel. 043-777-212 Fax. 043-777-612 C

The services they offer are free.

The program educates local to perform tests and guidance. This program is trying to train one or more person as Dr. soil per village.

There is no Dr. Soil program with in our village. There was then referred to one near the Amphoe office in Borabue.

We shall take approx. 5-6 samples and then contact our local branch of Dr. Soil program.

I come to bake with our result and experience of Dr. Soil program.

[jopham]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...71014202450.htm

[tig28]

Today we have contacted:

Land Development Station Maha Sarakham adhering Sanit Road Km. 72 - 73

Tambon Kaeng Loeng Jarn, Amphoe Muang,

Maha Sarakham 44000

Tel. 043-777-212 Fax. 043-777-612 C

Hi Karstenf

Hope all works out well. If you noticed in an above post from Foreverford he gives valuable info re "green manure" (thanks) --- in particular one called Sunn Hemp. I found this is available free from our Land Development Station in Si Saket. Keep us informed if you have the time.

all the best--tig

[Greenside]

Thanks for this useful and informative thread. I have just finished a rather depressing review of the revenue and expenses on 15 rai of my wife's farm near Surin. My info to date came from some other helpful members of this forum who provided estimates for various inputs. While contemplating the miserable 158 Kg per rai that her brother has produced over the past season I noticed that someone has produced and income and revenue spreadsheet for rubber cultivation and wonder if anyone has a decent model for rice growing.

Her land area is set to double shortly when a leasing arrangement comes to an end but the thought of him cultivating extra land without a plan and with his yield record makes me want to run for cover when I know I should be trying to be supportive.

[karstenf]

Somebody is working with SRI method in Thailand.

See the website on SRI methods:

http://ciifad.cornell.edu/sri/

http://ciifad.cornell.edu/sri/countries/thailand/

http://ciifad.cornell.edu/sri/countries/th...cpfwrpt1007.pdf

If those results hold, it is a great step forward for the cultivation of rice.

It allows the world to feed many mouths.

Failure to improve cultivation methods of rice widely in Thailand will make Thailand a looser in the battle of sell rice.

SRI method means that the price of rice would bee under pressure downward.

I think that one can see the effect on the prices on rice in a maximum of 4 years.

There are three possibilities:

1. Improvement of cultivation methods for rice.

2. Find something else to use the land to.

3. Find something else to work with.

But we must remember that time is running now and it runs fast.

Best regards

Karsten

[bassman]

Last year I was working in S. Korea during the rice planting season and despite the high price of labor in this developed country rice was transplanted at a young age and not broadcast seeded. They did however use a rice transplanting machine similar to the one shown on the Thai Kubota website. If ther was an easier or cheaper way to get best production I would just about bet that they would be using it.

The informaition on the SRI is great to know for rice farming and thanks for posting the links. I noticed in the info that all rice was transplanted, none was broadcast seeded. Would be good if in future test plots they added this in comparison.