A Great Article From Citylife About Yellows And Reds

[Ulysses G.]

Office Politics

In the beginning, when PAD stood for the termination of Thaksin's government through peaceful means, I would have proudly worn a yellow shirt (had it not clashed with my skin tone). I admired their dogged digging of the government's wrong doings and their startling exposés of the depths of depravity of the then administration. We were up against something so insidious and so far reaching that I felt that PAD with their tenacity was the only means towards cleansing us of the man and his tentacles.

So for many months, because myself and our production manager (two old school friends) are both anti the government's shenanigans, our lunch hours were filled with outraged soliloquies about the evils of government - the source of the prime minister's wealth, his human rights records, his intimidation of the free press (thankfully he has never heard of Citylife), his purchase of power, his policy corruption, his transparently fake rhetoric…yada yada. They were grand times. Such discourse, such debate.

It took me a while to realise that lurking among the nodding heads were a few naysayers, a couple of dissenting voices, in short, an underground clique of red shirts! It all came about one day after work when I was waxing political, as I tend to do when provided with an audience, and someone said, "I love Thaksin, and I voted for him. Who are you to say that my vote is wrong?" Suddenly programmers, messengers and all sorts of other people at work began to reveal their love for Thaksin and their divergence from Citylife's mainstream rhetoric.

Well, that was interesting. I felt most sheepish that I had created an environment where the reds didn't feel comfortable speaking up, and immediately (and admittedly, slightly reluctantly) rectified the situation. So we all rubbed along as always, and while we knew which side of the political divide we were on, it was never an issue. Jokes began to emerge. When the television was brought in to work for big ASTV events, the red lot would make a point of putting on their earphones. When, a parade of reds walked past our office on the way to greet the ex Prime Minister at the airport, our reds clapped their hands while the yellows threatened to withhold Secret Santa presents.

But as time went by, things got even more confusing. I had long stopped supporting PAD's actions, though I maintain that I support their goal of rooting out insidious corruption, and wish for an alternative means. The PAD spectrum at work became as diverse as that within the nation. PAD extremes: those who got hourly updates on their mobile phones, gleefully announcing the latest developments by instant messaging to computer screens throughout the office, and those who sympathised, but disapproved of the methods being deployed and were disgusted at the airport raid. DAAD extremes: those who would wear red to protest sites, clapping their feet and shouting slogans, to those who loved Thaksin, but saw that the government was misbehaving and would drop their loyalties to Thaksin in a heartbeat for the sake of peace. One long term loyal DAAD clapped his hands in glee when he heard of Suvarnabhumi's closing. Startled, I asked him why he was clapping, to which he answered, "sa jai" - serves them right.

I was terribly confused at this point as he was one of our staunchest pro Thaksin supporters. "It is not so simple anymore," he said, "the government should have sacrificed themselves for the country by now."

And that is the sad truth. Red. Yellow. PAD. DAAD. We are all feeling so disillusioned at the lack of those worthy of our support. Fewer of us are now identifying with these labels. We simply just want to be Citylifers at work and get on with things. We simply want to be Thai.

by Pim Kemasingki

http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=2408

[sceadugenga]

That pretty well sums up the confusion many Thais now feel.

My wife, a staunch Democrat, won't even discuss politics any more... once a favored subject.

[Loaded]

The Thais have very successfully killed their own country.

It may take many years before foreign investment and tourism recovers and during that time Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and China will have met the demand of foreigners to invest and travel in this part of the world. Som nam na.

Of course they'll throw another lesse majeste charge at the BBC reporter Jonathan Head and the Foreign Minister will write letters to the Bangkok Post attacking articles in the Economist by referencing subjects not even discussed in the original article. Thais are a wonderful race of people and I dearly love living here, but their ability to live in a land of denial of the facts is incredible. After all it's not their fault, is it?

Edited December 30, 2008 by Loaded

[ricklev]

My country, through ignorance and massive denial, elected George Bush and Dick Cheney twice. Remembering that helps me keep Thai politics in perspective.

Edited December 30, 2008 by ricklev

[adjan jb]

My country, through ignorance and massive denial, elected George Bush and Dick Cheney twice. Remembering that helps me keep Thai politics in perspective.

Mine elected a crazy garden gnome. I have no reason to look down on Thai people.

[cmsally]

The Thais have very successfully killed their own country.

It may take many years before foreign investment and tourism recovers and during that time Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and China will have met the demand of foreigners to invest and travel in this part of the world. Som nam na.

Of course they'll throw another lesse majeste charge at the BBC reporter Jonathan Head and the Foreign Minister will write letters to the Bangkok Post attacking articles in the Economist by referencing subjects not even discussed in the original article. Thais are a wonderful race of people and I dearly love living here, but their ability to live in a land of denial of the facts is incredible. After all it's not their fault, is it?

I totally agree.

Also there has to be a massive sociological shift in political debate and its parameters. While you have a society that cannot question Why? it is going to be impossible to move forward.

The ruling strata of Thai society has to realise that the consensus has somewhat broken down. When that happens there are questions to be answered and actions to be explained. Attempts to push issues under the carpet and pretend that they don't exist won't bring that consensus back.

There maybe more success in recognising the divisions and regions within Thailand, it could be that the way forward is to acknowledge diversity rather than to push for conformity.

[WaiWai]

The Thais have very successfully killed their own country.

It may take many years before foreign investment and tourism recovers and during that time Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and China will have met the demand of foreigners to invest and travel in this part of the world. Som nam na.

Of course they'll throw another lesse majeste charge at the BBC reporter Jonathan Head and the Foreign Minister will write letters to the Bangkok Post attacking articles in the Economist by referencing subjects not even discussed in the original article. Thais are a wonderful race of people and I dearly love living here, but their ability to live in a land of denial of the facts is incredible. After all it's not their fault, is it?

I totally agree.

Also there has to be a massive sociological shift in political debate and its parameters. While you have a society that cannot question Why? it is going to be impossible to move forward.

The ruling strata of Thai society has to realise that the consensus has somewhat broken down. When that happens there are questions to be answered and actions to be explained. Attempts to push issues under the carpet and pretend that they don't exist won't bring that consensus back.

There maybe more success in recognising the divisions and regions within Thailand, it could be that the way forward is to acknowledge diversity rather than to push for conformity.

Two very good posts and an excellent article from Pim, whose honesty I always admire. Her article does catch the spirit of the times here.

[Rasseru]

My country, through ignorance and massive denial, elected George Bush and Dick Cheney twice. Remembering that helps me keep Thai politics in perspective.

Mine elected a crazy garden gnome. I have no reason to look down on Thai people.

I do not say it would be better, but another conclusion would seem to be that you have reason to look down on both French and Thai people.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Good article.

But Pim, you know very well that the only limitation in press freedom that you ever had (and still have) is the one that would stop you from getting to the core of the matter.

You can't analyse any of this conclusively when limiting yourself to the likes of Thaksin, Abbyshit, Yellow & Red. But if you raise the topic at your office too, you may again be surprised.

Edited December 30, 2008 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Gravelrash]

Seems to be a lot of shades of grey from both sides. And yes, the topic is too diverse to actually discuss in Thailand. Pity they can't cut a deal together to both rob the country equally, so everyone else can get on with their lives.

[Ajarn]

As some of my reasearch says, nothing stays the same. But the worst is limited to an 'instance' or two, then they have always recoverd with a limited loss.

Some of the PAD's actions went overboard, like the airport closure, which suceeded, with very few injuries, but BIG MONEY Losses, which has made interest in this matter a much broader interest than it deserves..

All this is just regular Thai Politics on a daily basis in my view. Nothing to worry about

Here is an article on Thai corruption from 97 to 06

[m02]

Well, I remember back not so long ago when it was shocking that a ruling Thai general would step down of his own accord over, of all things, a rise in the price of oil that was completely beyond his control. It was also a shock to have Prem then tell coup leaders a little later that no, there wasn't going to be another coup, and for them to fold their tents and get on the plane and just go away for awhile, as he and the Thai people were tired of Thailand being viewed by the world as not much more than a banana republic - (No, I am not talking about anything that happened in this century...).

Democracy is new here, and the Thai people have come a long ways. The jousting between differing views hasn't destroyed anything, and in fact it would be very very nice if the United States had a Constitutional Court like Thailand with the power to investigate criminal activities related to elections, ban politicians and political parties, and at least require that candidates meet Constitutional requirements.

It is better to have the problems out in the open, regardless if you miss a flight or two, as how else are the issues to be dealt with and the crooks exposed if crooks control the government machinery? Thailand will be in real trouble if the political climate ever gets to the point like the US where the political process and news outlets have been controlled by special interests and crooks for generations and the two major parties differ in name only.

The main issue isn't PAD or their opposition, it is the fact that Thai citizens care enough about their country to become actively engaged in the political process. Pim's article actually highlights the positive aspects of this process which is that people can go from being completely polarized to thoughtful. While some will give up in disgust at being unable to figure things out, others will gain from the experience. Its like learning to ride a bike, you really need to be prepared to dump it a few times and deal with the skinned knees. If you don't you'll never figure it out. Better a few skinned knees and to be involved than to be a bunch of dumb witless sheep like US voters.

Be that as it may: Happy New Year everyone...

[palander]

Office Politics

In the beginning, when PAD stood for the termination of Thaksin's government through peaceful means, I would have proudly worn a yellow shirt (had it not clashed with my skin tone). I admired their dogged digging of the government's wrong doings and their startling exposés of the depths of depravity of the then administration. We were up against something so insidious and so far reaching that I felt that PAD with their tenacity was the only means towards cleansing us of the man and his tentacles.

So for many months, because myself and our production manager (two old school friends) are both anti the government's shenanigans, our lunch hours were filled with outraged soliloquies about the evils of government - the source of the prime minister's wealth, his human rights records, his intimidation of the free press (thankfully he has never heard of Citylife), his purchase of power, his policy corruption, his transparently fake rhetoric…yada yada. They were grand times. Such discourse, such debate.

It took me a while to realise that lurking among the nodding heads were a few naysayers, a couple of dissenting voices, in short, an underground clique of red shirts! It all came about one day after work when I was waxing political, as I tend to do when provided with an audience, and someone said, "I love Thaksin, and I voted for him. Who are you to say that my vote is wrong?" Suddenly programmers, messengers and all sorts of other people at work began to reveal their love for Thaksin and their divergence from Citylife's mainstream rhetoric.

Well, that was interesting. I felt most sheepish that I had created an environment where the reds didn't feel comfortable speaking up, and immediately (and admittedly, slightly reluctantly) rectified the situation. So we all rubbed along as always, and while we knew which side of the political divide we were on, it was never an issue. Jokes began to emerge. When the television was brought in to work for big ASTV events, the red lot would make a point of putting on their earphones. When, a parade of reds walked past our office on the way to greet the ex Prime Minister at the airport, our reds clapped their hands while the yellows threatened to withhold Secret Santa presents.

But as time went by, things got even more confusing. I had long stopped supporting PAD's actions, though I maintain that I support their goal of rooting out insidious corruption, and wish for an alternative means. The PAD spectrum at work became as diverse as that within the nation. PAD extremes: those who got hourly updates on their mobile phones, gleefully announcing the latest developments by instant messaging to computer screens throughout the office, and those who sympathised, but disapproved of the methods being deployed and were disgusted at the airport raid. DAAD extremes: those who would wear red to protest sites, clapping their feet and shouting slogans, to those who loved Thaksin, but saw that the government was misbehaving and would drop their loyalties to Thaksin in a heartbeat for the sake of peace. One long term loyal DAAD clapped his hands in glee when he heard of Suvarnabhumi's closing. Startled, I asked him why he was clapping, to which he answered, "sa jai" - serves them right.

I was terribly confused at this point as he was one of our staunchest pro Thaksin supporters. "It is not so simple anymore," he said, "the government should have sacrificed themselves for the country by now."

And that is the sad truth. Red. Yellow. PAD. DAAD. We are all feeling so disillusioned at the lack of those worthy of our support. Fewer of us are now identifying with these labels. We simply just want to be Citylifers at work and get on with things. We simply want to be Thai.

by Pim Kemasingki

http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=2408

Read : less advertisement revenue.

[femi fan]

For me, living in thailand now is pretty similar to when i got here nearly 20 years ago. Daily life i mean.

But politics and its direction these days are reflecting the growth and development of thailand from a rural nation to a more modern one of our new global era. I find thailand to be a deeply impressive nation with some magnificent traits. One of those is their ability to get up off the floor when they suffer knockbacks.

Thailand will easily recover from their problems of the last couple of years: they have the art of compromise in their blood, and foreigners love coming to the country. It didn't become the favoured destination over the rest of the countries in this region by accident.

Still a good article, and some great posts in reply. I think one of the lessons to be learned for the common people is that politics is divisive and negative, and that whatever they get up to to not let it come between friends and family. Leave the ugly stuff for those that chose to seek power. Just keep an eye on them and keep them in check, but without creating animosity between thai and thai.

[brennanstimpy]

Did anyone else snicker under their breath when they read the part about free press? That is hilarious. Could Pim actually believe that?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Probably not. But in all honestly there's other things that stand in the way of press freedom, not just the one obvious law that cannot be discussed.

If you run a publication then you'll find that it's best to apply some self censorship before writing something less favorable about a local business, politician or influential person. Thailand can still be a very dodgy place if you're inclined to rock the boat.

[realthaideal]

I take the article for what it is and it's a welcome one. Pim certainly isn't new to any attacks, nor does she need us to defend her really. For me it's nice that she shares her personal experiences and growth thru the issues along with what her friends n workers are struggling with. As a luk kreung she understands two worlds and gets an inside view of Thai life many of us think we have, but don't, no matter the language ability. I'm always happy to hear what she knows or has seen. I may not fully agree, but that's fine. Winnie expresses what many of us know was an underlying sticking point.

[infernalman7]

In the heart of many Thais, they are waiting for a few more years for real freedom.