Financial Crisis

[teletiger]

i like bonds because they provide me with 100% calculable facts as long as the debtor remains liquid. buying equities is my my [not so] humble view investing in 20% facts and 80% expectation and not too far away from putting some money on red or black in Vegas or Macau. but hey... chacun à son goût!

Obviously, some people have got it......and some haven't.

Swiss Re makes loss on bond bets

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8184740.stm

Regards

Edit:

"During the second quarter of 2009, our core business, despite the reported loss, continued to deliver strong underwriting results and solid earnings power," said Swiss Re chief executive Stefan Lippe.

Errr......right.

Edited August 5, 2009 by teletiger

[midas]

Yes pretty amazing

Also the cash for clunkers

You should see the financing they have offered too. Of course the majority do not have the money to buy a new car. But this way they got 4500 off the price & the NINJA Car loan this time.

But what is really funny & true American in some ways is a couple of dealers.....

One was offering a handgun with each car sold & another was offering a AK-47 for each truck sold.....LOL

Interesting times indeed

I messed up my other post & then dropped my connection so the you tube is gone.

If anyone want to see it just go directly...

http://www.youtube.com/user/PeterSchiffTV

But that is nothing ..........

Regarding " cash for clunkers " DEALERS did you see this about what Uncle Sam wanted to do ................?

Your computer is government property...

" The Government's Cash for Clunkers Website requires user to click on "accept" for a disclaimer. What a disclaimer! If you click "ok" it says in fine print that your computer is now considered the property of the Federal Government, including all content on your computer, and gives access to both the US and foreign governments. "

See the video at this link:-

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/101591

I said before these people at the Whitehouse are downright evil

Edited August 5, 2009 by midas

[midas]

i like bonds because they provide me with 100% calculable facts as long as the debtor remains liquid. buying equities is my my [not so] humble view investing in 20% facts and 80% expectation and not too far away from putting some money on red or black in Vegas or Macau. but hey... chacun à son goût!

Obviously, some people have got it......and some haven't.

Teletiger its only 1.1bn francs- thats pocket money

[teletiger]

i like bonds because they provide me with 100% calculable facts as long as the debtor remains liquid. buying equities is my my [not so] humble view investing in 20% facts and 80% expectation and not too far away from putting some money on red or black in Vegas or Macau. but hey... chacun à son goût!

Obviously, some people have got it......and some haven't.

Teletiger its only 1.1bn francs- thats pocket money

To Switzerland?....Hang on.....clunk....whirrr.....Thats about $350 million lost tax. 1150 jobs gone.....clunk.....whirr......12 million per year SS....Whirrrrr....Switzerlands GDP as of 2008 was $36.6 billion... 0.1% of GDP from 1 company. You're right. Chump change.

Regards.

[12DrinkMore]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=ajycUC9mfpQ8

Aug. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Companies in the U.S. cut fewer jobs in July as the worst recession since the Great Depression eased, a private report based on payroll data showed today.

The estimated 371,000 drop, higher than economists had forecast, followed a revised 463,000 decline the prior month, figures from ADP Employer Services showed today.

Stabilization in housing and manufacturing and help from the federal stimulus effort will usher economic growth this quarter, economists say. Consumer spending, which accounts for 70 percent of the economy, may be slow to gain speed as home prices fall, wages stagnate and unemployment climbs.

“We have seen the worst, but there is still more pain ahead,” said David Semmens, an economist at Standard Chartered Bank in New York. “Consumer spending will remain weak, especially as we head towards double-digit figures in unemployment.”

Well, so there we go, another third of a million people out of a job in July making a total of 840,000 over two months. With no end in sight. except in the rhetoric of the politicians.

And where is my pension scheme at the moment?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/persona...ecord-96bn.html

Actuaries Lane Clark & Peacock (LCP) said the financial crisis had helped send the combined deficit of FTSE 100 companies' pension schemes soaring from £41bn a year ago. It was £12bn two years previously.

The current £96bn funding gap, calculated from data last month, is the largest recorded shortfall recorded under the international accounting rules currently used for Footsie pension funds, the firm added.

Not much to expect from there, despite the latest surge in the stock markets, which the pension schemes seem to have missed out on. 12 Billion deficit ballooning to 96 billion deficit in just two years? They will never be able to pull that back. The money is gone forever. And compare it to the public service schemes, tax payer fully funded by definition.

Pity they can't take on a couple of these mega bonus bankers, who seem to be able to pocket billions even in times of economic plight.

[flying]

Well, so there we go, another third of a million people out of a job in July making a total of 840,000 over two months. With no end in sight. except in the rhetoric of the politicians.

And where is my pension scheme at the moment?

The money is gone forever. And compare it to the public service schemes, tax payer fully funded by definition.

Pity they can't take on a couple of these mega bonus bankers, who seem to be able to pocket billions even in times of economic plight.

Yeah but you know....As they say not to worry th eUnemployment is a lagging indicator

Same as they said a few monther back

As for the pension not coming back true but they say if it does expect a large tax on the increase/income

True about the bankers too they do quite well considering they were suppose to be...How did they describes it? On the edge of global collapse staring into an abyss? Something like that

Then again Wall streets boy are doing ok too it seems.

http://www.financialpost.com/news-sectors/...html?id=1850433

But even in this article as they say.....Multi-million-dollar bonuses are simply "the tail behind the dog," Mr. Smith added.

I say kill the dog & be done with the whole dog tail & all

[Abrak]

Multi-million-dollar bonuses are simply "the tail behind the dog," Mr. Smith added.

I say kill the dog & be done with the whole dog tail & all

One conclusion that I think will inevitably be reached about this crisis is that it was exacerbated by the massive increase in both wealth and income inequality.

The top 10% of wealth owners have approximately 40x the wealth of the median wealth guy. Not someone who is poor just mister average. In terms of income the median guys income has fallen in real terms over the last 30 years while the top 10% have seen their real incomes double. That is why there is so much bad debt compared to so much inherent wealth.

And ultimately such a system is bound to fail. A country cant grow solely on the basis of making a few people richer, there's not much hope for the poverty stricken but If you dont engender growth of both the size of the middle class as well as its income and wealth there is no driving force for the real economy.

[Naam]

NOW WHAT?! six hours without any ypacolaptic rides?

[midas]

NOW WHAT?! six hours without any ypacolaptic rides?

Sorry Naam ! Asleep on the job

What about this then .................?

Hezbollah reportedly stockpiling 40,000 rockets

Senior Israel Defense Forces staff and defense establishment personnel have expressed extreme concern over the possibility of a serious incident on the Lebanese border in the near future

According to the report, militants are now being trained in the use of both long-range ground-to-ground missiles as well as anti-aircraft missiles to use against Israel.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1105406.html

[flying]

NOW WHAT?! six hours without any ypacolaptic rides?

this is nice.....

“The most significant challenge ahead is for the regulatory framework to keep current with the rapid pace of innovation in the marketplace.”

From Goldman's own mouth - they say to the world: look - it is not our fault the regulators are behind the times. And we're certainly not going to tell them about our innovations or how we make money - we're a big black box, we just make money. Period. Until they (the regulators) catch up, we will have this sandbox and do as we please. By the time they (the regulators) ban what we are doing now, we'll have innovated to the next step of getting around the regulators.

http://www.fundmymutualfund.com/2009/08/go...centage-97.html

Edited August 6, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

NOW WHAT?! six hours without any ypacolaptic rides?

Sorry Naam ! Asleep on the job What about this then .................?

Hezbollah reportedly stockpiling 40,000 rockets

it's good news

[midas]

NOW WHAT?! six hours without any ypacolaptic rides?

Sorry Naam ! Asleep on the job What about this then .................?

Hezbollah reportedly stockpiling 40,000 rockets

it's good news

[12DrinkMore]

One conclusion that I think will inevitably be reached about this crisis is that it was exacerbated by the massive increase in both wealth and income inequality.

The top 10% of wealth owners have approximately 40x the wealth of the median wealth guy. Not someone who is poor just mister average. In terms of income the median guys income has fallen in real terms over the last 30 years while the top 10% have seen their real incomes double. That is why there is so much bad debt compared to so much inherent wealth.

And here's a good dose of that bad debt mounting up.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=ac9y1xr7yNhQ

Aug. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Almost half of U.S. homeowners with a mortgage are likely to owe more than their properties are worth before the housing recession ends, Deutsche Bank AG said.

The percentage of “underwater” loans may rise to 48 percent, or 25 million homes, as prices drop through the first quarter of 2011

And ultimately such a system is bound to fail. A country cant grow solely on the basis of making a few people richer, there's not much hope for the poverty stricken but If you dont engender growth of both the size of the middle class as well as its income and wealth there is no driving force for the real economy.

The system is working very successfully, at the least the capitalist bit of it, money is flowing faster than the Niagara Falls into the pockets of the wealth owners. Reminds me of playing Monopoly a few decades ago. In the end it's all in the stash of the "winner", but there is nobody left in the game to pay his rents.....

The other piece of the system, basically the government, which should provide the socialist balance on the scales has failed. Instead of subduing the rampant "exuberance" of the "compensation schemes", they rely on the finance of the "winners" to gain the votes, but then conjure up policies to ensure that the exuberance continues.

So how is the system going to fail? Are we heading back in a cycle to the start of this topic, with a revolution on the streets, or will the sheeple be satisfied with watching TV, or will the wealthy lot decide that they'll hand some back or will the government tax the bastards and plough the money back into the real stuff economy rather than the "finance" economy?

My guess is the TV option, I'm with Abrak on this.

[sokal]

When I said for how long can they keep the lid on it I meant for how long can they

go on " extending and pretending " ?

Yes consumerism was good work when we had it.

Was it really 70% of our GDP as they say? If so we are in deep sh!t because you saw the unemployment charts & the bankruptcies?

But your Q how long can USA extend & pretend? That is really for others to decide.

Extend & Pretend will continue as long as folks keep buying US debt/bonds I suppose. As long as China continues to trade their citizens wealth for our consumerism. I see their conundrum & wonder which way they will go.

China is not in as big of a conundrum as most economists think. If China slowly quits buying US paper then China's currency will slowly appreciate and as it appreciates the Chinese people will gain more purchasing power. Its the opposite for the US. I think China will keep doing the same old thing till they have bought another couple thousand tons of gold.

[sokal]

One conclusion that I think will inevitably be reached about this crisis is that it was exacerbated by the massive increase in both wealth and income inequality.

The top 10% of wealth owners have approximately 40x the wealth of the median wealth guy. Not someone who is poor just mister average. In terms of income the median guys income has fallen in real terms over the last 30 years while the top 10% have seen their real incomes double. That is why there is so much bad debt compared to so much inherent wealth.

And here's a good dose of that bad debt mounting up.

Aug. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Almost half of U.S. homeowners with a mortgage are likely to owe more than their properties are worth before the housing recession ends, Deutsche Bank AG said.

The percentage of "underwater" loans may rise to 48 percent, or 25 million homes, as prices drop through the first quarter of 2011

And ultimately such a system is bound to fail. A country cant grow solely on the basis of making a few people richer, there's not much hope for the poverty stricken but If you dont engender growth of both the size of the middle class as well as its income and wealth there is no driving force for the real economy.

The system is working very successfully, at the least the capitalist bit of it, money is flowing faster than the Niagara Falls into the pockets of the wealth owners. Reminds me of playing Monopoly a few decades ago. In the end it's all in the stash of the "winner", but there is nobody left in the game to pay his rents.....

The other piece of the system, basically the government, which should provide the socialist balance on the scales has failed. Instead of subduing the rampant "exuberance" of the "compensation schemes", they rely on the finance of the "winners" to gain the votes, but then conjure up policies to ensure that the exuberance continues.

So how is the system going to fail? Are we heading back in a cycle to the start of this topic, with a revolution on the streets, or will the sheeple be satisfied with watching TV, or will the wealthy lot decide that they'll hand some back or will the government tax the bastards and plough the money back into the real stuff economy rather than the "finance" economy?

My guess is the TV option, I'm with Abrak on this.

You need capital in order to have capitalism. 1%-4% interest rates is not what I call capital. The US has not had capitalism for the last 10 years. The whole problem was the result of too low of interest rates.

Would you lend out your money at .23% ? neither would I.

[Naam]

Would you lend out your money at .23% ? neither would I.

a lot of investors, especially institutional ones, do. who do you think is buying the billions of UST, Bunds, Gilts, etc. each and every day?

[Naam]

NOW WHAT?! six hours without any ypacolaptic rides?

Sorry Naam ! Asleep on the job What about this then .................?

Hezbollah reportedly stockpiling 40,000 rockets

it's good news

of course 400,000 rockets would be even better news

[Abrak]

China is not in as big of a conundrum as most economists think. If China slowly quits buying US paper then China's currency will slowly appreciate and as it appreciates the Chinese people will gain more purchasing power. Its the opposite for the US. I think China will keep doing the same old thing till they have bought another couple thousand tons of gold.

Whoppee dee da.... A couple of thousand more tonnes of gold. A thousand tonnes of gold is worth about US$30bn. In order to switch their USTs into gold they would need to buy 40,000 tonnes of the stuff - say a little over a third of the worlds total supply. Good luck...

And while they could stop buying USTs and allow their currency to appreciate, it would certainly make the cost of buying a Rolls Royce cheaper. The whole point of pegging to the US dollar was because they could have an undervalued exchange rate so investment would flow into the country.

[midas]

This thread has concentrated more on the economic and monetary aspects of this financial crisis.

But the personal freedom US citizens take so much for granted and at one time used to be the envy of

many people in places like the old USSR . But they are now under serious threat .....This is horrible and scary !

This below seems no different to the The McCarthy Witch Hunts of the 1950s

Read this letter by Senator Cornyn of Texas and I think he asks legtimate questions.. what is going to be done with the information?

Dear President Obama,

I write to express my concern about a new White House program to monitor American citizens' speech opposing your health care policies, and to seek your assurances that this program is being carried out in a manner consistent with the First Amendment and America's tradition of free speech and public discourse.

Yesterday, in an official White House release entitled "Facts are Stubborn Things," the White House Director of New Media, Macon Phillips, asserted that there was "a lot of disinformation out there," and encouraged citizens to report "fishy" speech opposing your health care policies to the White House. Phillips specifically targeted private, unpublished, even casual speech, writing that "rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation." Phillips wrote "If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to [email protected]."

I am not aware of any precedent for a President asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure political speech that is deemed "fishy" or otherwise inimical to the White House's political interests.

By requesting that citizens send "fishy" emails to the White House, it is inevitable that the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and private speech of U.S. citizens will be reported to the White House. You should not be surprised that these actions taken by your White House staff raise the specter of a data collection program. As Congress debates health care reform and other critical policy matters, citizen engagement must not be chilled by fear of government monitoring the exercise of free speech rights.

I can only imagine the level of justifiable outrage had your predecessor asked Americans to forward emails critical of his policies to the White House. I suspect that you would have been leading the charge in condemning such a program--and I would have been at your side denouncing such heavy-handed government action.

So I urge you to cease this program immediately. At the very least, I request that you detail to Congress and the public the protocols that your White House is following to purge the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and identities of citizens who are reported to have engaged in "fishy" speech. And I respectfully request an answer to the following:

? How do you intend to use the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and identities of citizens who are reported to have engaged in "fishy" speech?

? How do you intend to notify citizens who have been reported for "fishy" speech?

? What action do you intend to take against citizens who have been reported for engaging in "fishy" speech?

? Do your own past statements qualify as "disinformation"? For example, is it "disinformation" to note that in 2003 you said: "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care plan"?

I look forward to your prompt response.

Sincerely,

JOHN CORNYN

United States Senator

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/american-...-healthcar.html

Edited August 6, 2009 by midas

[hhgz]

John Cornyn is a Republican, trying to remain relevant in a Democratic congress, and failing miserably. As a eye poke, another website had this to report about your latest hero. Following the text that you quoted, the following comment was posted:

"This from the guy who cheered for warrantless, domestic spying against American citizens by the National Security Agency? Now he's upset? Because the White House is asking people to let them know when they're being bombarded with claims that Democrats want to kill senior citizens and all of the other 'pure speech' the Republicans are spewing about health care reform? Comedy."

midas, if want to be really scared about about absolute nonsense, check out "The Obama Deception". It's absolutely hilarious, which many TVers have taken way too seriously.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Doom and Gloom.......Things have been pretty slow at this thread lately and I know many of you enjoy a bit of doom and gloom to cheer you up. The attached is from a Panama Legal Firm, with their offices in Guatemala???

Now they want you to move to Central America and use their services. So this might be slightly biased for their benefit, you decide.

They not only cover the USA crumbling before our eyes but go into great detail as to why you should get out now. But first arrange with them to look after your money and arrange for a smooth entry into Central America.

http://www.panamalaw.org/what_will_happen_...is_worsens.html

enjoy

beenthere

[midas]

John Cornyn is a Republican, trying to remain relevant in a Democratic congress, and failing miserably. As a eye poke, another website had this to report about your latest hero. Following the text that you quoted, the following comment was posted:

"This from the guy who cheered for warrantless, domestic spying against American citizens by the National Security Agency? Now he's upset? Because the White House is asking people to let them know when they're being bombarded with claims that Democrats want to kill senior citizens and all of the other 'pure speech' the Republicans are spewing about health care reform? Comedy."

midas, if want to be really scared about about absolute nonsense, check out "The Obama Deception". It's absolutely hilarious, which many TVers have taken way too seriously.

Dont you think that by just criticising John Cornyn you are shooting the messenger ?

It's the sinister desires of Macon Phillips ( and the army of Czar's ) that I would be more worried about

And i already saw "The Obama Deception" and for me it gave quite a bit of food for thought -

but then each to their own

Edited August 6, 2009 by midas

[sokal]

Would you lend out your money at .23% ? neither would I.

a lot of investors, especially institutional ones, do. who do you think is buying the billions of UST, Bunds, Gilts, etc. each and every day?

Speculators are buying them so that they can sell to the federal reserve and the only reason the fed is buying is because nobody wants them. Nobody is buying a 30 year bond to collect a 3% return.

Also, central banks that are trying to peg their currency to the USD.

[sokal]

China is not in as big of a conundrum as most economists think. If China slowly quits buying US paper then China's currency will slowly appreciate and as it appreciates the Chinese people will gain more purchasing power. Its the opposite for the US. I think China will keep doing the same old thing till they have bought another couple thousand tons of gold.

Whoppee dee da.... A couple of thousand more tonnes of gold. A thousand tonnes of gold is worth about US$30bn. In order to switch their USTs into gold they would need to buy 40,000 tonnes of the stuff - say a little over a third of the worlds total supply. Good luck...

And while they could stop buying USTs and allow their currency to appreciate, it would certainly make the cost of buying a Rolls Royce cheaper. The whole point of pegging to the US dollar was because they could have an undervalued exchange rate so investment would flow into the country.

Who said that they would put all their reserves in gold ? I sure as hel_l didnt. They do need to get serious with gold though and a couple thousand more tons would be a good start. It would not surprise if they wanted to get close to the US at 8000 tons.

The reason they peg is so that exports are more competitive.

[sokal]

John Cornyn is a Republican, trying to remain relevant in a Democratic congress, and failing miserably. As a eye poke, another website had this to report about your latest hero. Following the text that you quoted, the following comment was posted:

"This from the guy who cheered for warrantless, domestic spying against American citizens by the National Security Agency? Now he's upset? Because the White House is asking people to let them know when they're being bombarded with claims that Democrats want to kill senior citizens and all of the other 'pure speech' the Republicans are spewing about health care reform? Comedy."

midas, if want to be really scared about about absolute nonsense, check out "The Obama Deception". It's absolutely hilarious, which many TVers have taken way too seriously.

Dont you think that by just criticising John Cornyn you are shooting the messenger ?

It's the sinister desires of Macon Phillips ( and the army of Czar's ) that I would be more worried about

And i already saw "The Obama Deception" and for me it gave quite a bit of food for thought -

but then each to their own

I am a Canadian, I thought I could trust the Americans not to vote Obama in but you blew it. I guess in order to be president now, all you need to do is open a koolaid stand.

[flying]

It would not surprise if they wanted to get close to the US at the claimed 8000 tons.

[Abrak]

Who said that they would put all their reserves in gold ? I sure as hel_l didnt. They do need to get serious with gold though and a couple thousand more tons would be a good start. It would not surprise if they wanted to get close to the US at 8000 tons.

Well you could be right, Marx was one of the great bulls of gold.

Das Kapital is probably 20% about gold. How paper money exacerbates wealth inequalities. How any economy must base its currency on a real commodity 'gold and silver being par excellence'. How governments should hold substantial reserves in gold. How paper money growth should not exceed that of gold.

I seem to remember though that rather than actually buying it, he simply recommended confiscating it.

[sokal]

It would not surprise if they wanted to get close to the US at the claimed 8000 tons.

That's right. Who knows what is left in fort Knox.

Some people mock a gold standard like its a big joke. They seem to forget that the US was off of the gold standard-then on the gold standard-and now back off the gold standard. My life would be a hel_l of allot easier if I had faith in the Obama greenbacks but there is absolutely no technical or fundamental reason to believe its safe.

[cloudhopper]

Worth a read IMO-

http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney08042009.html

I don't think they can keep this up forever, but the longer they do the badder it will end....

[midas]

Worth a read IMO-

http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney08042009.html

I don't think they can keep this up forever, but the longer they do the badder it will end....

And in a country which relies on 70% consumption - how can they expect much meaningful " consumption " with these figures ?

Half of mortgage borrowers will be 'underwater'

An estimated 25 million borrowers will owe more than their house is worth by 2011.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/06/real_estat...world/index.htm