Thai Girl Travelling Wih Sister

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Hi all,

My mate is travelling with his Thai gf to the UK in April this year. They made the trip last year, no problem. But can she bring her sister?

I am an interested party in this because the sister is my gf. My gf hasn't been to the UK before. Will the fact that her sister has been to the UK before have any bearing on her ability to get a visa if she travels with her? Or could this adversely affect the sister, who could presumably expect no visa problems if just travelling with him?

I am quite prepared to sponsor my gf for a tourist visa through the normal channels (I am getting the necessary documentation together now), but thought it would look good if we could take that route later in the year, and we could show that she had already been to the UK, and had behaved and had returned to Thailand when required to do so.

I've not come across this predicament in any other posts I have seen on this site.

Is my plan feasible or bonkers?

Cheers,

djmm

[the scouser]

I take it you mean that for the 1st visit your g/f's sister would act as the sponsor.

There is nothing wrong per se with this approach. Your g/f would have to show that she has access to sufficient money, either her own or her sister's to pay for her holiday, that she has somewhere to stay in the UK, and that she has a reason to return to Thailand at the end of the visit. Should she get the visa and comply it would be easier for her to get one subsequently, although if you suddenly feature in the next application the visa officer may enquire why you were not mentioned previously. I recall from your previous posts that your g/f runs her sister's bar in her absence. One question a visa officer would have, therefore, is who is taking care of the business when both are travelling to the UK together?

Scouse.

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

I take it you mean that for the 1st visit your g/f's sister would act as the sponsor.

There is nothing wrong per se with this approach. Your g/f would have to show that she has access to sufficient money, either her own or her sister's to pay for her holiday, that she has somewhere to stay in the UK, and that she has a reason to return to Thailand at the end of the visit. Should she get the visa and comply it would be easier for her to get one subsequently, although if you suddenly feature in the next application the visa officer may enquire why you were not mentioned previously. I recall from your previous posts that your g/f runs her sister's bar in her absence. One question a visa officer would have, therefore, is who is taking care of the business when both are travelling to the UK together?

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

I take it you mean that for the 1st visit your g/f's sister would act as the sponsor.

There is nothing wrong per se with this approach. Your g/f would have to show that she has access to sufficient money, either her own or her sister's to pay for her holiday, that she has somewhere to stay in the UK, and that she has a reason to return to Thailand at the end of the visit. Should she get the visa and comply it would be easier for her to get one subsequently, although if you suddenly feature in the next application the visa officer may enquire why you were not mentioned previously. I recall from your previous posts that your g/f runs her sister's bar in her absence. One question a visa officer would have, therefore, is who is taking care of the business when both are travelling to the UK together?

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scouse,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Apologies for the earlier blank reply. I'm still getting the hang of this board.

Yes, you remember correctly, my gf does run the bar in her sister's absence. They have a friend who can look after the place in their absence (she has done the job previously).

As for mentioning me in any subsequent visa application, would that matter? Could she not plead ignorance of the requirement to stipulate if she knew anyone in the UK at the time of her first visit? Would the fact that she had complied with the terms of the visa not outwiegh such considerations?

The reason I want to take this route is that I don't think I can get out to Thailand for a couple at least the next 3 months, and I'd like to help her through the visa process if I am to sponsor her, and accompany her on the flight here. Her sister is visiting here anyway, so it seems like a good opportunity to sort things out with little intervention oin my part (part from money, naturally ).

Much obliged,

djmm

[the scouser]

djmm,

It is probable that your g/f will be given a full interview for her visa. In the course of this any visa officer worth his salt would ask whether she knows anyone in the UK. Your g/f would then either have to lie or tell the truth. If she lies then this would become apparent when the subsequent application is made and the proof of your relationship identies you as having known each other since before her initial visit. If she tells the truth the visa officer will enquire why you haven't been presented as the sponsor etc. Should she lie and then reveal all at the second application then her positive immigration history would be counterbalanced by the "deceipt" employed in previously concealing your existence. A visa officer may smell a rat whether one exists or not.

The biggest circumstance in her favour is the fact that her sister successfully obtained a visa and complied by its conditions. Whereas this doesn't preclude the visa officer from refusing her application it will place a degree of pressure upon him as it would appear to be inconsistent to grant one application and refuse another where the applicants' circumstances are very similar.

Cheers,

Scouse.

Edited January 14, 2005 by the scouser

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

djmm,

It is probable that your g/f will be given a full interview for her visa. In the course of this any visa officer worth his salt would ask whether she knows anyone in the UK. Your g/f would then either have to lie or tell the truth. If she lies then this would become apparent when the subsequent application is made and the proof of your relationship identies you as having known each other since before her initial visit. If she tells the truth the visa officer will enquire why you haven't been presented as the sponsor etc. Should she lie and then reveal all at the second application then her positive immigration history would be counterbalanced by the "deceipt" employed in previously concealing your existence. A visa officer may smell a rat whether one exists or not.

The biggest circumstance in her favour is the fact that her sister successfully obtained a visa and complied by its conditions. Whereas this doesn't preclude the visa officer from refusing her application it will place a degree of pressure upon him as it would appear to be inconsistent to grant one application and refuse another where the applicants' circumstances are very similar.

Cheers,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scouse,

As ever, your reply makes perfect sense. As you point out, I had could hardly claim to have known her for over a year if she had denied all knowledge me a couple of months earlier! Honesty is the best policy.

Regarding possible favourable circumstances due to her sister's previous visit to the UK, a paragraph on the UK Visas website caught my eye. It said:

"Those accompanying a multiple-entry visa holder

Where you issue a multiple-entry visa, a similar visa may be issued to a member of the holder’s family or member of staff who usually accompanies the main applicant abroad on trips."

I assume this applies to a sister. As you pointed out above, this probably doesn't offer any guarantee, but does give me cause for hope.

So do I have to formally sponsor my gf if she acconmpanies her sister to the UK and she has declared that she will see me when she comes to the UK? I have no problem doing that, but I want my involvement in this process to be a help rather than a hindrance.

Thanks.

djmm

[the scouser]

Djmm,

You don't have to formally sponsor your g/f if she can show that she has the wherewithal to do so either independently or with her sister's assistance. However, if she were not to rely upon your sponsorship the visa officer may, depending upon her finances, refuse the application on the basis that the trip will cost an amount that is disproportionate to her earnings: i.e. would you spend a year's salary on a one month holiday?

To be honest, I can't see your acting as sponsor as being a hindrance to your g/f's application. If you do sponsor her make sure that you provide, inter alia, a covering letter that fully explains the situation; i.e. that she is your g/f and will be travelling with her sister, a holder of a multi-entry visa, who is in a relationship with your friend. Also get the sister to provide a letter confirming that your g/f is in her employment and stating what will be happening to the business in their absence.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Djmm,

You don't have to formally sponsor your g/f if she can show that she has the wherewithal to do so either independently or with her sister's assistance. However, if she were not to rely upon your sponsorship the visa officer may, depending upon her finances, refuse the application on the basis that the trip will cost an amount that is disproportionate to her earnings: i.e. would you spend a year's salary on a one month holiday?

To be honest, I can't see your acting as sponsor as being a hindrance to your g/f's application. If you do sponsor her make sure that you provide, inter alia, a covering letter that fully explains the situation; i.e. that she is your g/f and will be travelling with her sister, a holder of a multi-entry visa, who is in a relationship with your friend. Also get the sister to provide a letter confirming that your g/f is in her employment and stating what will be happening to the business in their absence.

Cheers,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scouse,

Thinking about it, what I want here is the best of both worlds. I want to be able to sponsor my gf, but I want them to look favourably on her application because of her sister's previous good behaviour. So when I say I don't want to be a hindrance I guess I mean that I don't want my part in this to lead them to ignore the positive aspects of her sister's involvement. Hope that make sense!

Anyway, I have managed to pull together the documentation required to prove that I can sponsor my gf (bank statements, phone records, etc) . Do I need to send this to the embassy as well or will the letter suffice in this instance?

would you spend a year's salary on a one month holiday?

Depends how many scams I fell for!

Cheers,

djmm

[the scouser]

You'd also need to send your g/f your bank statements and proof of your relationship for her to presen to the embassy in support of her application. Also some evidence of your ability to accommodate her; e.g. your mortgage statement.

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

You'd also need to send your g/f your bank statements and proof of your relationship for her to presen to the embassy in support of her application. Also some evidence of your ability to accommodate her; e.g. your mortgage statement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can I send copies of my documents? She's still waiting to receive a letter I sent her 6 weeks ago, so I have limited faith in the Thai postal service! Is it standard parctice to send such documents to the gf or to the embassy?

I don't own a place yet. I'm renting. There's no problem for her to stay at my place though, and I can show rent payment receipts. Is that good enough?

Cheers,

djmm

[the scouser]

Djmm,

As far as possible all documents should be originals. Alternatively have copies of the originals certified/notarised as such by a solicitor. You should submit:-

1. Bank statements for about the last 6 months;

2. Wage/salary slips for the last 8 weeks/3-4 months;

3. A copy of your tenancy agreement and if necessary a letter from the landlord allowing your g/f to stay there;

4. Proof of your relationship; i.e. letters, e-mails, phone bills/cards, photos, greetings cards etc.; and

5. A covering letter as outlined in my previous post.

You can send these to the embassy once your g/f has lodged her application but they are predisposed to losing stuff. I recommend that you send it to your g/f and let her present it to the embassy.

Your g/f should submit:-

1. The application form (you can download this, fill it in and send it to her with the other stuff. She then only needs to sign it);

2. Her passport;

3. 2 x passport-sized photos

4. The fee (about 3000 baht for a single visit visa);

5. A letter from her sister detailing your g/f's employment, what's happening to the business in their absence, the fact that she's a fine, upstanding citizen who is already the proud possessor of a UK multi-entry visa who has not transgressed whilst in the UK and who will ensure that her sister does not besmirch the otherwise unsullied family name (I wouldn't write it in those terms but I'm sure you get my drift. Just dress it up as best you can.); and

6. Proof that she and her sister are related as claimed (birth certificates should do).

Cheers,

Scouse.

Edited January 14, 2005 by the scouser

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Djmm,

As far as possible all documents should be originals. Alternatively have copies of the originals certified/notarised as such by a solicitor. You should submit:-

1. Bank statements for about the last 6 months;

2. Wage/salary slips for the last 8 weeks/3-4 months;

3. A copy of your tenancy agreement and if necessary a letter from the landlord allowing your g/f to stay there;

4. Proof of your relationship; i.e. letters, e-mails, phone bills/cards, photos, greetings cards etc.; and

5. A covering letter as outlined in my previous post.

You can send these to the embassy once your g/f has lodged her application but they are predisposed to losing stuff. I recommend that you send it to your g/f and let her present it to the embassy.

Your g/f should submit:-

1. The application form (you can download this, fill it in and send it to her with the other stuff. She then only needs to sign it);

2. Her passport;

3. 2 x passport-sized photos

4. The fee (about 3000 baht for a single visit visa);

5. A letter from her sister detailing your g/f's employment, what's happening to the business in their absence, the fact that she's a fine, upstanding citizen who is already the proud possessor of a UK multi-entry visa who has not transgressed whilst in the UK and who will ensure that her sister does not besmirch the otherwise unsullied family name (I wouldn't write it in those terms    but I'm sure you get my drift. Just dress it up as best you can.); and

6. Proof that she and her sister are related as claimed (birth certificates should do).

Cheers,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scouse,

Thanks a lot for the check-list. Much appreciated.

My gf has already completed the application form (we did that the last time I was over there), so I've no need to send her that. Although I wouldn't mind betting she's lost the bloody thing.

The reason I asked about sending the documents to the embassy rather than the gf is that I don't really want her seeing the details of my bank account and earnings. My finances are now a bit healthier than I tell her, and I'd like to keep that information to myself. She generally never asks for money, but why tempt her!

Also, the tenancy agreement may be a problem. I stay in a cheap and cheerful rented place. They're generally rented out on a weekly basis as short-term accommodation (one or two months or so). I pay a weekly rent, I receive a receipt, and that's it. The place is cheap, but it is clean and tidy, and a decent size. I'd rather stay there for the time being because, being so cheap, it allows me to save money. I could get a note from the landlord confirming I stay there and that my gf can stay. Is that OK?

Incidentally, why is my accommodation such an important point when she is only coming over here as a short-term tourist? Is it just a case of them knowing where I am, and hence where she will be?

Thanks,

djmm

[the scouser]

I could get a note from the landlord confirming I stay there and that my gf can stay. Is that OK?

Incidentally, why is my accommodation such an important point when she is only coming over here as a short-term tourist? Is it just a case of them knowing where I am, and hence where she will be?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, a note from your landlord should be fine.

Accommodation is relevant even for a visit because the visa applicant has to show that they have somewhere to stay, either a hotel or a private dwelling, that is not linked to access to public funds.

About your finances, even if you send the details directly to the embassy they will return the documents to your g/f at the end of the process. One way or another she's going to get a pretty good idea of your nett worth. "Oh, you rich man. I want stay you long time."

Cheers,

Scouse.

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

About your finances, even if you send the details directly to the embassy they will return the documents to your g/f at the end of the process. One way or another she's going to get a pretty good idea of your nett worth. "Oh, you rich man. I want stay you long time."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly! I want her to love me for my mind. I guess I'll have to try a tactical bank account transfer.

Scouse,

You've been a great help. I think I can finally stop asking you questions now. Cheers.

Can anyone advise a reliable way of sending my documents to Thailand so that they actually arrive at their intended destination?

[britmaveric]

About your finances, even if you send the details directly to the embassy they will return the documents to your g/f at the end of the process. One way or another she's going to get a pretty good idea of your nett worth. "Oh, you rich man. I want stay you long time."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly! I want her to love me for my mind. I guess I'll have to try a tactical bank account transfer.

Scouse,

You've been a great help. I think I can finally stop asking you questions now. Cheers.

Can anyone advise a reliable way of sending my documents to Thailand so that they actually arrive at their intended destination?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fedex/UPS

[bkk_mike]

Can anyone advise a reliable way of sending my documents to Thailand so that they actually arrive at their intended destination?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fedex/UPS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually - UK to Thailand, you're better off with DHL (as long as there's usually someone at the delivery address...)

Last time I sent something by Fedex, it went the long way around (via the US, so took a day longer than DHL). I always avoid UPS because, in the past, when I ordered stuff from the US to be delivered in the UK, they always wanted you to be in to pay the VAT (where Fedex simply bill you). It's not so useful when you rely on the security guard signing for things while you're at work (no issues signing for packages, but handing over money is a different matter).

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Can anyone advise a reliable way of sending my documents to Thailand so that they actually arrive at their intended destination?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fedex/UPS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually - UK to Thailand, you're better off with DHL (as long as there's usually someone at the delivery address...)

Last time I sent something by Fedex, it went the long way around (via the US, so took a day longer than DHL). I always avoid UPS because, in the past, when I ordered stuff from the US to be delivered in the UK, they always wanted you to be in to pay the VAT (where Fedex simply bill you). It's not so useful when you rely on the security guard signing for things while you're at work (no issues signing for packages, but handing over money is a different matter).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bkk_mike / britmaveric,

Thanks for the advice .

djmm

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Djmm,

As far as possible all documents should be originals. Alternatively have copies of the originals certified/notarised as such by a solicitor. You should submit:-

1. Bank statements for about the last 6 months;

2. Wage/salary slips for the last 8 weeks/3-4 months;

3. A copy of your tenancy agreement and if necessary a letter from the landlord allowing your g/f to stay there;

4. Proof of your relationship; i.e. letters, e-mails, phone bills/cards, photos, greetings cards etc.; and

5. A covering letter as outlined in my previous post.

You can send these to the embassy once your g/f has lodged her application but they are predisposed to losing stuff. I recommend that you send it to your g/f and let her present it to the embassy.

Your g/f should submit:-

1. The application form (you can download this, fill it in and send it to her with the other stuff. She then only needs to sign it);

2. Her passport;

3. 2 x passport-sized photos

4. The fee (about 3000 baht for a single visit visa);

5. A letter from her sister detailing your g/f's employment, what's happening to the business in their absence, the fact that she's a fine, upstanding citizen who is already the proud possessor of a UK multi-entry visa who has not transgressed whilst in the UK and who will ensure that her sister does not besmirch the otherwise unsullied family name (I wouldn't write it in those terms    but I'm sure you get my drift. Just dress it up as best you can.); and

6. Proof that she and her sister are related as claimed (birth certificates should do).

Cheers,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scouse,

I just noticed that your checklist doesn't include my gf's bank records. Do the visa people not worry about this because I am footing the bill for her visit?

djmm

[the scouser]

No, you're right, she should submit her bank book too. Sorry for the oversight.

Scouse.

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

No, you're right, she should submit her bank book too. Sorry for the oversight.

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No problem, mate. I like to keep you on your toes!

Regarding bank statements, mine usually come in two parts: a list of transactions for the last month, and a summary page showing a starting balance, the net change of balance, and a current balance.

Can I get away with sending just the summary sheets or do they want to examine the financial minutiae of my amazing jet set lifestyle?

Same goes for my phone records, except that here I would like to send the list of transactions (obviously they want to see some evidence that I have phoned my gf's number consistently), but hold on to the summary sheets.

Basically, I want to send the minimum amount of documents that I can get away with, in case they get lost.

Much obliged.

djmm

[the scouser]

You should submit the statement that lists the transactions as the visa officer will want to know where the money is coming from and where it's going. In the past people have borrowed, for example, ten grand from a friend, put it in their bank and turned round to the visa officer saying, "but look I've got ten grand in my account". Needless to say once the visa was issued the money was returned.

Scouse.

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

You should submit the statement that lists the transactions as the visa officer will want to know where the money is coming from and where it's going. In the past people have borrowed, for example, ten grand from a friend, put it in their bank and turned round to the visa officer saying, "but look I've got ten grand in my account". Needless to say once the visa was issued the money was returned.

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do I need to submit my passport also?

djmm

[the scouser]

Yes. If you are not in Thailand when the application is made then a copy will suffice. It serves as proof that you were actually present in Thailand when you claim to have met your g/f.

Scouse.

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Thanks to the efforts of the good people on this board I have sent my documents in support of my gf's visit visa application to her, and thanks to Fedex, it has been received.

A huge thanks to the Scouser for providing detailed guidance on here.

Now my main worry is how my gf's circumstances can be shown in the best light. She and her sister will be toddling off to the UK embassy soon to apply for their visas. Obviously I would expect my gf to be interviewed.

I worry about her details. Her, and her sister's earnings right now, are pretty low due to a decline in tourist numbers. I am helping her out, naturally , and I insist she puts the money I send into her bank account. (Bless her, she really can't understand the concept of saving: why wait to spend money when there are so many shoes to buy now? )

I expect tourist numbers to pick up eventually, and then I would like her to open a shop so that she can earn more money, and I'll have somewhere to stay on my visits.

Anyway, right now the only money going into her bank account is from me. Her earnings from her sis include rent and accommodation, but none of the actual mnoney part seems to hit her account (that'll be the shoes again ).

But does it look bad if there is a regular income (well, for the last few months) from me? I don't know WHY it would look bad, but the visa process doesn't always seem completely logical. Let's face it, I'm not the first guy to send money to their honey in LOS, but how do the wonderful ( ) people of the UK embassy's visa section regard such matters?

Thanks.

djmm

[the scouser]

djmm,

As with most things there are 2 ways of looking at it. The first is that the relationship must be genuine if you are sending her money and the second is if the hand that feeds your g/f is in the UK, what incentive does she have to return to Thailand at the end of her holiday?

Which route the visa officer goes down will be depend upon all of your g/f's circumstances. So, to answer your question, it's can have either a positive or adverse effect upon the application depending upon the applicant's situation.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

djmm,

As with most things there are 2 ways of looking at it. The first is that the relationship must be genuine if you are sending her money and the second is if the hand that feeds your g/f is in the UK, what incentive does she have to return to Thailand at the end of her holiday?

Which route the visa officer goes down will be depend upon all of your g/f's circumstances. So, to answer your question, it's can have either a positive or adverse effect upon the application depending upon the applicant's situation.

Cheers,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cheers, mate.

My gf is off to the embassy next week to hand in her application and then hopefully be given an interview date. What kind of questions can she expect at the interview?

I don't want her to lie, but I do want her to prepare her answers, like you would do for any interview.

I know they will ask her about me: how we met, what I do, about my family, what do we like to do, where I live, etc.

But what other questions can she expect, and will there be any trick questions?

Cheers,

djmm

[the scouser]

djmm,

There will be no trick questions but if there appears to be a flaw in her knowledge of you they will press the point. They can basically ask about anything to do with your life together and your circumstances. I'd make sure your g/f has a sound knowledge of your family, what you do, how you met, etc.

I know it sounds daft, but don't submit any dodgy e-mails. It's not unheard of for people to support their application with an e-mail from their loved one saying, "Don't worry, love, when you get here the woman at the restaurant has said she'll fix you up with a job...."

Scouse.

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

djmm,

There will be no trick questions but if there appears to be a flaw in her knowledge of you they will press the point. They can basically ask about anything to do with your life together and your circumstances. I'd make sure your g/f has a sound knowledge of your family, what you do, how you met, etc.

I know it sounds daft, but don't submit any dodgy e-mails. It's not unheard of for people to support their application with an e-mail from their loved one saying, "Don't worry, love, when you get here the woman at the restaurant has said she'll fix you up with a job...."

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Scouse.

No dodgy emails, thankfully.

I have sent her a crib sheet of my details, so she should be up to speed soon. And I'll bet she's memorised my bank statements!!

When they question her about me, how would they know if there was anything wrong with her answers? For example, she could say my brother is 22, but they would not know that this is incorrect.

Cheers,

djmm

[the scouser]

That's true but what the visa officer doesn't want to hear is a string of "don't know" answers. So, in this situation, it's better to say something than nothing.

Make sure she doesn't take the crib sheet in to the interview with her. I've interviewed people before and wondered why they were continuously looking at the floor, only to realise that they were answering my questions from a prepared list which they'd attempted to hide on their lap.

Scouse.

[GU22]

What kind of questions can she expect at the interview?

I don't want her to lie, but I do want her to prepare her answers, like you would do for any interview.

I know they will ask her about me: how we met, what I do, about my family, what do we like to do, where I live, etc.

But what other questions can she expect, and will there be any trick questions?

Cheers,

djmm

Have a look at Bringing a visitor or fiance to the UK, FAQ and Tips

About halfway down the page you will find "Tips and advice: Questions that may be asked in the interview."

Very useful.