"legally Entitled To Work In Thailand"

[photojourn]

I've been noticing a number of employment jobs being placed recently in some forums where the employer states how they are an equal opportunity employer and do not discriminate on the basis of nationality, race, sex, religion, ethnicity, etc., and then goes on to state "this position is only available for candidates who are legally entitled to work in Thailand without the need for the company to obtain a work permit".

This last requirement would seem to rule out anyone except for those with Thai citizenship.

Am I missing something here? How can a non-Thai citizen be legally entitled to work in Thailand for a company if that company doesn't obtain the work permit?

This requirement would seem to make farcical the claim that these employers do not discriminate on the basis of nationality for a start.

[InterestedObserver]

I believe they may mean Permanent Residents are acceptable for employment.

[Pakeha]

That's not descriminating on the basis of nationality. It's just a requirement of the job, the same as some jobs require a degree.

You could be any nationality and provided you are legally entitled to work in Thailand they will employ you.

[photojourn]

I believe they may mean Permanent Residents are acceptable for employment.

Correct me if I am wrong, but a PR would still require a work permit supplied by the company they are working for wouldn't they?

As work permits are tied to the company sponsoring them a work permit under the name of a different employer would fall under the description "legally entitled to work in Thailand" but only for the name of the company who supplied the WP.

"That's not descriminating on the basis of nationality. It's just a requirement of the job, the same as some jobs require a degree.

You could be any nationality and provided you are legally entitled to work in Thailand they will employ you."

What other nationalities are "legally entitled to work in Thailand" without a work permit supplied by their employer?

[Jimjim]

I've thought the same thing many times, OP. One person that could qualify would be a foreigner who owns his own company and could work on a contract basis? But then why would those kinds of people want to get a job if they already work for themselves.

[Pakeha]

I believe they may mean Permanent Residents are acceptable for employment.

Correct me if I am wrong, but a PR would still require a work permit supplied by the company they are working for wouldn't they?

As work permits are tied to the company sponsoring them a work permit under the name of a different employer would fall under the description "legally entitled to work in Thailand" but only for the name of the company who supplied the WP.

"That's not descriminating on the basis of nationality. It's just a requirement of the job, the same as some jobs require a degree.

You could be any nationality and provided you are legally entitled to work in Thailand they will employ you."

What other nationalities are "legally entitled to work in Thailand" without a work permit supplied by their employer?

Well done. You've worked them out.

I'd suggest these companies are trying to appear not to discriminate and are therefore stating they will not discriminate, but will simply use work permit status as a reason they can not employ you. Technically they are not discriminating on race etc. and are therefore not violating basic human rights.

I see it done every day in my own country. It's a good way to keep the Americans out

[Jimjim]

Nah, discrimination on nationality is not really bad in Thailand. You see other adverts all the time saying they will accept Thai national applicants only.

[Soutpeel]

I've been noticing a number of employment jobs being placed recently in some forums where the employer states how they are an equal opportunity employer and do not discriminate on the basis of nationality, race, sex, religion, ethnicity, etc., and then goes on to state "this position is only available for candidates who are legally entitled to work in Thailand without the need for the company to obtain a work permit".

This last requirement would seem to rule out anyone except for those with Thai citizenship.

Am I missing something here? How can a non-Thai citizen be legally entitled to work in Thailand for a company if that company doesn't obtain the work permit?

This requirement would seem to make farcical the claim that these employers do not discriminate on the basis of nationality for a start.

This is not farcical at all, go and look at the adverts on the internet for many jobs in many countries and you will find many examples which say they will only accept applicants who are permitted to work in specific country by virtue that that are a citizen of that country or have legal permission to work in that particular country.....so this is not unique to Thailand.

Look at the "big" sites which recruite for the Oil and Gas industry worldwide and you will see nationality/work permit requirements on just about every job

[photojourn]

The most recent I've seen is a listing for the Bangkok bureau chief of Reuters.

There's no argument that many companies advertise here with the notation "Thai applicants only".

However, to combine a wonderful spiel about non-discriminatory employment practices and then add the rider "legally entitled to work in Thailand" and "without the need for the company to obtain a work permit" appears to be contradictory. Hence the reason for asking in here.

If it's the case that only Thais can do this, then the advertisement either breaches Reuters' employment mission statement or the mission statement is being ignored.

Excluding people on the basis the company will not supply a WP along with the requirement to be "legally entitled" effectively rules out everyone except Thais, including foreigners who might have a WP they can use as that WP "legally entitles" them to only work for the company that provides that WP.

[BangnaBound]

Companies are not being discriminatory. The Thai government is, by making it very difficult for a company to employee non-Thai citizens. Everyone knows this, but whenever a company puts up ad that says “Thai citizen only” people cry discrimination. Companies are just following the rules. When they say “Thai citizen only”, or "legally entitled to work in Thailand" what they are indicating is that no matter how great an employee you are, the ROI for this position doesn’t justified the additional 2 million baht in capitalization, 4 extra Thai employees, and the headaches and costs to get a WP for an foreign employee.

[melmark]

I assume there is a fee involved in obtaining a work permit. Could it be these companies are actually willing to help you get the work permit as long as you Pay for it rather than them.

[IMA_FARANG]

I've been noticing a number of employment jobs being placed recently in some forums where the employer states how they are an equal opportunity employer and do not discriminate on the basis of nationality, race, sex, religion, ethnicity, etc., and then goes on to state "this position is only available for candidates who are legally entitled to work in Thailand without the need for the company to obtain a work permit".

This last requirement would seem to rule out anyone except for those with Thai citizenship.

Am I missing something here? How can a non-Thai citizen be legally entitled to work in Thailand for a company if that company doesn't obtain the work permit?

This requirement would seem to make farcical the claim that these employers do not discriminate on the basis of nationality for a start.

It may be a legal point, that doesn't mean a lot, but they are not technically discriminating against a foriegner as long as they simply comply with the Thai legal requirements for a foriegner to work in Thailand. They can say it's not discrimination, they are just following the Thai labor law.

There are some occupations a foriegner can legally work at in Thailand. If a person was in Thailand not on a Tourist visa (which does not permit work) couldn't he/she work in one of those permitted occupations without a work permit? Let's say a student who was here on a Education visa, who wanted to work at a part time job to earn a few extra Baht, as an example.

I'm not a lawyer, I'm just wondering.

At any rate, the company can always claim it's not discrimination, as long as they are only complying with the Thai labor law.

[photojourn]

The post was really inquiring who else would be legally entitled to work in Thailand without the company needing to obtain a work permit and that pretty well has been answered – no one except Thais. I had thought I was missing something so thanks to those who made that clear.

It's just amusing that in this case, a news and business information organisation the size of Reuters waxes lyrically about searching for the best people, the most talented people, and then stress their non-discriminatory employment polices and then add that statement at the end of their recruitment advertising for what is their most senior job in Thailand, that of bureau chief – responsible for the daily news and business information feeds into the Reuters world-wide network.

In addition, this is a media position as the bureau chief is required to write and edit, so technically that requires government registration as well.

Why not just state, which they are allowed to do, this position is only available for Thai nationals?

[Mario2008]

It may be a legal point, that doesn't mean a lot, but they are not technically discriminating against a foriegner as long as they simply comply with the Thai legal requirements for a foriegner to work in Thailand. They can say it's not discrimination, they are just following the Thai labor law.

There are some occupations a foriegner can legally work at in Thailand. If a person was in Thailand not on a Tourist visa (which does not permit work) couldn't he/she work in one of those permitted occupations without a work permit? Let's say a student who was here on a Education visa, who wanted to work at a part time job to earn a few extra Baht, as an example.

I'm not a lawyer, I'm just wondering.

At any rate, the company can always claim it's not discrimination, as long as they are only complying with the Thai labor law.

Any work in Thailand, including volunteer work, requires a Work Permit. On an educational visa you are not allowed to work, WP or not.

[kiakaha]

It may be a legal point, that doesn't mean a lot, but they are not technically discriminating against a foriegner as long as they simply comply with the Thai legal requirements for a foriegner to work in Thailand. They can say it's not discrimination, they are just following the Thai labor law.

There are some occupations a foriegner can legally work at in Thailand. If a person was in Thailand not on a Tourist visa (which does not permit work) couldn't he/she work in one of those permitted occupations without a work permit? Let's say a student who was here on a Education visa, who wanted to work at a part time job to earn a few extra Baht, as an example.

I'm not a lawyer, I'm just wondering.

At any rate, the company can always claim it's not discrimination, as long as they are only complying with the Thai labor law.

Any work in Thailand, including volunteer work, requires a Work Permit. On an educational visa you are not allowed to work, WP or not.

the only exception i know of is those foreigners working as diplomats in thailand.

[lectito]

Perhaps, by insisting applicants be able to work in the country without a work permit, the news organisation wants to make sure that there is no possibility that journalists could have their work permit revoked if they put the "wrong" spin on articles they write?

Coupling that requirement with stating that they don't discriminate on religion, sex or ethnicity etc suggests they could well be after dual nationals, either "Luk Krung" or expats who have gone through the process of taking out Thai citizenship.

[harrry]

Sounds a little like when in Australia firms advertised they were non dscriminAatory and then indicated that the wearer had to wear their uniform which consisted of low cut top and mini skirt. On second thoughts here it wouldn.t be discrimination would it

[BWPattaya]

I had some Jehovah's Witnesses at my door a couple of days ago. I really shook them when I asked about their Work Permits! They didn't believe they needed one, and I pointed out that volunteres helping with the Tsunami had problems because of a lack of permits. I had a great time debating things with them, until in the end they said they didn't want to take up any more of my time.

[CWMcMurray]

However, to combine a wonderful spiel about non-discriminatory employment practices and then add the rider "legally entitled to work in Thailand" and "without the need for the company to obtain a work permit" appears to be contradictory. Hence the reason for asking in here.

If it's the case that only Thais can do this, then the advertisement either breaches Reuters' employment mission statement or the mission statement is being ignored.

Excluding people on the basis the company will not supply a WP along with the requirement to be "legally entitled" effectively rules out everyone except Thais, including foreigners who might have a WP they can use as that WP "legally entitles" them to only work for the company that provides that WP.

This is a legal disclaimer and is most likely required by internal non descrimination policies that these companies need to comply with (especially the MNCs).

The statement "only Thai nations can apply" and "only those allowed to work in Thailand without the need for the company to sponsor a work permit" are very diiferent. The end result may be the same for now, but it appears to be the first step and clearly puts the spot light where it belongs (on the Thai govenment).

Companies will not hire foreigners for many positions, not because they aren't equally or more qualified in some cases or because they are racist. They are not considering foreign nationals because of the Thai government's restrictions upon foreign nationals being allowed to work in Thailand.

Based upon the above statements, if the Thai government implemented a "Green Card" system for PR then those foreign nationals would qualify.

[Soutpeel]

Companies will not hire foreigners for many positions, not because they aren't equally or more qualified in some cases or because they are racist. They are not considering foreign nationals because of the Thai government's restrictions upon foreign nationals being allowed to work in Thailand.

Based upon the above statements, if the Thai government implemented a "Green Card" system for PR then those foreign nationals would qualify.

After reading this thread I cant believe how much cr*p is being written....restrictions on employment are in force in every country in the world....Let "Somchai" turn up in the UK on a tourist visa and try and get a "legal" job....not going to happen.

[satiariyan]

Am I missing something here? How can a non-Thai citizen be legally entitled to work in Thailand for a company if that company doesn't obtain the work permit?

He could be employed by either another company, a limited partnership or a Thai national. All three kind of entity could - if requirements are met - provide him with a workpermit allowing him to work e.g. as a consultant. The non wp-providing company could then hire the former entity to do a job to witch they assign their foreign employee.

I suspect the job ads photojurn are referring to actually were about what would outright have been called free-lance engagements elsewhere. It actually is possible to set up legalities such that one in every practical respect - except paperworks and wording - can legally work as free-lance in Thailand

Edited March 23, 2009 by satiariyan

[andy1308]

Interesting to note the original "Applicants must be legally able to work in Thailand without the company having to provide a work permit" text has now been removed from the latest advertising for this position.

[KamnanT]

So now we know....Thomson Reuters reads Thaivisa.com.

[photojourn]

So now we know....Thomson Reuters reads Thaivisa.com.

They probably monitor Twitter too. Then again, it was the head of Reuters who twittered the economic summit live and scooped his own agency a couple of months ago.

The information from satiariyan is interesting though and one way around a problem such as no WP from an employer but it does set up a contractual obligation between the company the work is being done for and the company providing the "consultant". I can see that working in some instances but not in this one where a senior position would effectively be controlled by a contractor who would then not be covered by the normal employment conditions of the company he or she was performing the work for.

Soutpeel is perfectly correct. There is nothing wrong in the requirement of the Thai government for people to need WPs. Every country has conditions such as this. Would be nicer if the local requirements were easier for employers to meet though and the process less of a pain.

From memory - and it's been a long time since I had to worry about this - Australia requires an employer to advertise the position nationally and locally - for a month I seem to recall. If no suitable applicants with the skills can be found locally the company can then search outside Australia. There is also scope under the 457 visa scheme but that has been subject to abuse in recent years.

The information provided has been interesting. Thanks to everyone who responded either here or by PM.

[Soutpeel]

Would be nicer if the local requirements were easier for employers to meet though and the process less of a pain.

The thing is the Thai WP process is actually quite painless, if someone knows what they doing, confusing possibly, but the process is not that restrictive at all, you can get away with a lot more than you would in other countries...

When I worked in the US, the whole process took the best part of 6 months to sort out before I was even permitted to start work, lawyers, very expensive etc etc...

At least here....you can be up and running in about two weeks and "under consideration"

[samran]

Would be nicer if the local requirements were easier for employers to meet though and the process less of a pain.

The thing is the Thai WP process is actually quite painless, if someone knows what they doing, confusing possibly, but the process is not that restrictive at all, you can get away with a lot more than you would in other countries...

When I worked in the US, the whole process took the best part of 6 months to sort out before I was even permitted to start work, lawyers, very expensive etc etc...

At least here....you can be up and running in about two weeks and "under consideration"

Very true point. Getting my work papers for the UK was a 6 month affair and then there was the annual review...another month.

I tend to think most people who respond to these threads have never had to think of work permits in their life, or come from juristictions (ie the EU) where work permits are not needed if you are a member country. It gives the impression that to get them for their own countries is somehow easy...or easier.

For the rest of us, work permits are a fact of life, and in Thailand, while no means paper intensive, are a heck of a lot easier than in other places.

[Soutpeel]

Would be nicer if the local requirements were easier for employers to meet though and the process less of a pain.

The thing is the Thai WP process is actually quite painless, if someone knows what they doing, confusing possibly, but the process is not that restrictive at all, you can get away with a lot more than you would in other countries...

When I worked in the US, the whole process took the best part of 6 months to sort out before I was even permitted to start work, lawyers, very expensive etc etc...

At least here....you can be up and running in about two weeks and "under consideration"

Very true point. Getting my work papers for the UK was a 6 month affair and then there was the annual review...another month.

I tend to think most people who respond to these threads have never had to think of work permits in their life, or come from juristictions (ie the EU) where work permits are not needed if you are a member country. It gives the impression that to get them for their own countries is somehow easy...or easier.

For the rest of us, work permits are a fact of life, and in Thailand, while no means paper intensive, are a heck of a lot easier than in other places.

Strangely enough..the country I found the easiest getting a WP sorted out was China, considering its a communist country etc etc...Go in with a tourist visa...half day running around getting a medical done etc etc in country and two weeks later, your WP/ID book appears and you are done, a year later, put your WP book in with your passport, couple of days later all returned all stamped up....this was the early 90's so may have changed now, but was pleasantly suprised, just the political interview threw me for a little while..