Avocado Flowers

[soidog2]

While my garden looks more like Noah's Ark minus animals, I thought I'd share with you guys some pictures I just took of my West Indian Pollock avocado.

Grown from a NYC supermarket seed, it flowered for the first time exactly ten years to date, generating big excitement around here.

Welcome to organic gardening !

!

[jandtaa]

Welcome to the new organic sub-forum Soidog2 !!

Thanks for sharing the pics !! Please share any info you have on growing avocado using organic methods and keep us updated on the progress (after 10 years exciting times no doubt !!)

may your flowers all bear fruit

Jandtaa 

[jandtaa]

Hi Soidog2

I'm starting to organise the subforum and have moved your post re; fruit fly to the pinned thread on pest controlyour post. I do have info on some organic controls and as soon as I've finished knocking the threads into order will post . Please bear with me  !!

cheers J

[jandtaa]

Hi Mike I have moved your thread here your post

and added a reply

cheers J

[stoneman]

While my garden looks more like Noah's Ark minus animals, I thought I'd share with you guys some pictures I just took of my West Indian Pollock avocado.

Grown from a NYC supermarket seed, it flowered for the first time exactly ten years to date, generating big excitement around here.

Welcome to organic gardening !

!

Here are a couple of pictures of my 4 year old trees that I got through the govt program in Pak Chong...These are Booth 7s..Also have Hass and Petersons.. Should have a decent crop this year... Not 100% organic, but try to use mostly compost

Stoneman

[mikejphuket]

Stoneman,

I'm green with envy. My wife did manage to get some (8) grafted trees from Pak Chong so I hope to duplicate your success.

[jandtaa]

welcome to the organic forum Stoneman  !!

Thanks for sharing your pictures . I'm based up in Chiang Rai and want to put in a couple of Avo's myself !! Don't worry about not being 100 percent organic please post any info you have here ( I followed a few threads on avocados and your name always crops up, pardon the pun !!)

Hopefully between us all we can find a way to grow avocados organically without to much of a drop in yield !! As you may have noticed there's a wide range of pinned topics here and hopefully you will be able to find info to help you grow 100% organically whilst at the same time hopefully impart some of your wisdom to other growers  !!

cheers Jandtaa

[stoneman]

Jandtaa..

We are putting in another 160 trees in May/June...40% Hass, 60% Booth 7 and 10 Buccanaer..Hass and Buccanaer are both "A" type flowers and the Booth 7 is a "B"....So the mix should be good..

Also have about 50 trees started from seeds that we are currently grafting..Have found a teacher from the Agriculture Dept that is assisting our farm manager..

This year's crop really looks good...Was up at the farm yesterday and the fruit set is very big...only having a reasonably large fruit drop on one tree so far...

Stoneman

[stoneman]

welcome to the organic forum Stoneman  !!

Thanks for sharing your pictures . I'm based up in Chiang Rai and want to put in a couple of Avo's myself !! Don't worry about not being 100 percent organic please post any info you have here ( I followed a few threads on avocados and your name always crops up, pardon the pun !!)

Hopefully between us all we can find a way to grow avocados organically without to much of a drop in yield !! As you may have noticed there's a wide range of pinned topics here and hopefully you will be able to find info to help you grow 100% organically whilst at the same time hopefully impart some of your wisdom to other growers  !!

cheers Jandtaa

One of the main problems with trying to grow "all organic" avocados here in Thailand is the condition of the soil...In order to get the trees established and growing, it was necessary to use fertilizer as suggested by the University Division of Agriculture and Natural Resources... I am sure that without this "boost" we would not be at the stage that we are...If you have time(several years) to prepare teh soil then an all organic program makes sense..

New Zealand has an organic avocado growers association and they have a lot of good info on organic growing..Their website is www.nzavocado.co.nz

Stoneman

[jandtaa]

Hi Stoneman 

Thanks for that . Big operation you have !!

I'm just looking to put a few in a small "edible forest garden" along with mango, jackfruit, longan etc.. etc... Haven't really researched avocado yet but met some one recently that has a producing tree that I can graft from in the future .

Here's a couple of questions

What's the minimum number of trees I'm gonna need to get good pollination and is there a maximum spacing (i'd like to spread them out amongst the other fruit trees.

can you explain a bit more about A and B flowers and why you need a mix is it similar to the pollination of apples ?

How old are the seedlings you're grafting and what method are you using ?

Do you need to graft type A flowered varieties onto type A rootstock etc ? 

What NPK value fertiliser did you use as a booster (I recently came across some organic fruit tree fertiliser and wonder whether it would be similar)

cheers for any advice you can give 

Jandtaa

[Foreverford]

Hi Stoneman

Thanks for that . Big operation you have !!

I'm just looking to put a few in a small "edible forest garden" along with mango, jackfruit, longan etc.. etc... Haven't really researched avocado yet but met some one recently that has a producing tree that I can graft from in the future .

Here's a couple of questions

What's the minimum number of trees I'm gonna need to get good pollination and is there a maximum spacing (i'd like to spread them out amongst the other fruit trees.

can you explain a bit more about A and B flowers and why you need a mix is it similar to the pollination of apples ?

How old are the seedlings you're grafting and what method are you using ?

Do you need to graft type A flowered varieties onto type A rootstock etc ?

What NPK value fertiliser did you use as a booster (I recently came across some organic fruit tree fertiliser and wonder whether it would be similar)

cheers for any advice you can give

Jandtaa

Another green with envy type saying well done with your avos. Please stay in touch as we would be interested in purchasing some of your hass crop when it comes in Buri Ram is not a long way away for a few boxes to make a hot guacamole for the masses. I am also curious about your A and B flowers. We had a tree with nearly a half dozen different graphs on it (California) and it wouldn't produce in 20 years. I planted another small tree and immediately got fruit on the big monster.

I'm interested in purchasing a few dozen trees or more if you have any sources you can pass along. thanks and choke Dee

[soidog2]

What's the minimum number of trees I'm gonna need to get good pollination and is there a maximum spacing (i'd like to spread them out amongst the other fruit trees.

can you explain a bit more about A and B flowers and why you need a mix is it similar to the pollination of apples ?

http://www.avocado.org/growers/pages/proce...gs/p5_daven.php

[jandtaa]

What's the minimum number of trees I'm gonna need to get good pollination and is there a maximum spacing (i'd like to spread them out amongst the other fruit trees.

can you explain a bit more about A and B flowers and why you need a mix is it similar to the pollination of apples ?

http://www.avocado.org/growers/pages/proce...gs/p5_daven.php

Thanks Soidog2

Thats explained it nicely !! Looks like I'll be OK with my plan and on such a small scale a bit of hand pollination will be a cinch . Now just the questions of grafting !! I've found quite a nice organic cultivation guide which I will post later 

cheers J

[jandtaa]

Hi All 

I've just uploaded an organic avocado cultivation guide here jandtaas docs - organic crops

cheers J

[soidog2]

Now just the questions of grafting !!

You can start grafting at about average “finger” size , age is irrelevant. What you want is a vigorously growing young tree !

It will assume whatever character you graft on, no need to worry about “a” & “b”

The fertilizer I recommended earlier will do nicely !

And because you enjoyed it here’s an older but really interesting

study on avocado pollination.

regards.

[jandtaa]

Cheers Soidog2

Sorry I didn't credit you with the fertiliser, just been so many posts to wade through in the last week I couldn't remember who turned me onto it !!

OK I think I've got the pollination sorted but is there a recommended variety to use as root stock ( I have some experience of fruit trees in the UK where generally the root stock determines the size of the tree) is it similar with avocados or is there a variety that simply produces greater yields or is more resistant to Phytophthora cinnamomi - avocado root-rot  that is preferred? Indeed is this disease a problem in Thailand that you're aware of ??

cheers for any further assistance you may be able to offer J

nearly forgot grafting any particular method give outstanding results?

[soidog2]

Cheers Soidog2

Sorry I didn't credit you with the fertiliser, just been so many posts to wade through in the last week I couldn't remember who turned me onto it !!

OK I think I've got the pollination sorted but is there a recommended variety to use as root stock ( I have some experience of fruit trees in the UK where generally the root stock determines the size of the tree) is it similar with avocados or is there a variety that simply produces greater yields or is more resistant to Phytophthora cinnamomi - avocado root-rot  that is preferred? Indeed is this disease a problem in Thailand that you're aware of ??

cheers for any further assistance you may be able to offer J

nearly forgot grafting any particular method give outstanding results?

No credit necessary, it’s to help other people.

Grafting type depends on tree size .

For seedlings the inverted “V” type , (Cleft Graft ) is what we use.

The Whip Graft will work as well.

This will answer your remaining questions!

http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6902e/x6902e0b.htm

[jandtaa]

Cheers Soidog2

thats everything covered nicely !! look forward to eating home grown guacamole in about 10 years time  !!

J

[Happy Jack]

welcome to the organic forum Stoneman  !!

Thanks for sharing your pictures . I'm based up in Chiang Rai and want to put in a couple of Avo's myself !! Don't worry about not being 100 percent organic please post any info you have here ( I followed a few threads on avocados and your name always crops up, pardon the pun !!)

Hopefully between us all we can find a way to grow avocados organically without to much of a drop in yield !! As you may have noticed there's a wide range of pinned topics here and hopefully you will be able to find info to help you grow 100% organically whilst at the same time hopefully impart some of your wisdom to other growers  !!

cheers Jandtaa

I've never grown these in Thailand but in New Zealand (sub tropical coastal) have grown with great success just from seed. Plant in a heavily composted area and they just come up. We used to dig holes to bury our kitchen compost and the trees came up out of the holes. I then transplanted these into a light soil area (they don't seem to do so well in clay) and within about 6 years had huge fruiting trees. I planted three trees and 2 of them fruited. They may have a male/female thing going on - but I don't know about this.

In Thailand where everything seems to grow more you should have no problems. These trees are big and take care of themselves. No reason not to be organic. they just grow. Plant them, wait a few years, live off them. They're a complete food! Pretty simple really.

Hope this helps!

[stoneman]

welcome to the organic forum Stoneman  !!

Thanks for sharing your pictures . I'm based up in Chiang Rai and want to put in a couple of Avo's myself !! Don't worry about not being 100 percent organic please post any info you have here ( I followed a few threads on avocados and your name always crops up, pardon the pun !!)

Hopefully between us all we can find a way to grow avocados organically without to much of a drop in yield !! As you may have noticed there's a wide range of pinned topics here and hopefully you will be able to find info to help you grow 100% organically whilst at the same time hopefully impart some of your wisdom to other growers  !!

cheers Jandtaa

I've never grown these in Thailand but in New Zealand (sub tropical coastal) have grown with great success just from seed. Plant in a heavily composted area and they just come up. We used to dig holes to bury our kitchen compost and the trees came up out of the holes. I then transplanted these into a light soil area (they don't seem to do so well in clay) and within about 6 years had huge fruiting trees. I planted three trees and 2 of them fruited. They may have a male/female thing going on - but I don't know about this.

In Thailand where everything seems to grow more you should have no problems. These trees are big and take care of themselves. No reason not to be organic. they just grow. Plant them, wait a few years, live off them. They're a complete food! Pretty simple really.

Hope this helps!

Happy Jack..

Yes you are correct, they are very hardy trees and only have one really big problem and that is root rot...For that reason, they must be plated on well drained land with no standing water...

To get 2 out of 3 trees from seeds to produce large quantities of fruit that quickly is very unusual..In some cases it can take up to 10 years to produce and even then the production is very limited...It is much better to graft these with scions from good producing trees...But the other side of the coin...Every good producing variety of avocado started from a seed that was planted and not a grafting..

Stoneman

[jandtaa]

Hi guys 

more good info !!

I'm planning to use a mixture of "own root" and grafts of all my fruit trees as it should extend the life of the orchard whilst giving some earlier producers and also give  some good grafting material.

cheers J 

[Foreverford]

Now just the questions of grafting !!

You can start grafting at about average "finger" size , age is irrelevant. What you want is a vigorously growing young tree !

It will assume whatever character you graft on, no need to worry about "a" & "b"

The fertilizer I recommended earlier will do nicely !

And because you enjoyed it here's an older but really interesting

study on avocado pollination.

regards.

The avocado pollination thread was fantastic and finally spelled it all out for me. Excellent for a 90 year old report. Do you know what "Hass" is, A or B? . Ever see any "fuertes" out this way? Great for the home with wonderful flavor but not marketable. Thanks much

[soidog2]

Do you know what "Hass" is, A or B? . Ever see any "fuertes" out this way?

Haas is "A" . no Fuertes around here !

best

[soidog2]

For anybody, within reach of Pak Chong, looking for Avocado

I went there today to buy some orange trees but I ended up buying mostly avocados.

As of today this shop has a very nice selection of Grafted trees ( about 30 or so ) may be 5/6 varieties.

Asking 150 Baht per tree.

Shop originally recommended to me a long time ago a by “ Stoneman”

If you call, Thai only , use this cell phone + 0815474424

Best

[soidog2]

While my garden looks more like Noah's Ark minus animals, I thought I'd share with you guys some pictures I just took of my West Indian Pollock avocado.

Grown from a NYC supermarket seed, it flowered for the first time exactly ten years to date, generating big excitement around here.

Welcome to organic gardening !

!

OK , the saga continues.

The flowers are mostly gone; a smattering of self-pollinated fruit is setting. ( no other avocado trees in sight. )

Now we are holding our breath that it will stay !

Enjoy the picture .

[mikejphuket]

Wonders never cease! i was down in the dumps due to killing half of my perfectly healthy grafted tress due to applying fertilizer according ( I thought ) as was supposed to do, i.e. 3 months after planting. Oh well, now a confirmed organic dude.

Anyway, yesterday found 2 fruit on a 4 year old planted from seed tree. Life is good again!!

Stoneman,

I'm green with envy. My wife did manage to get some (8) grafted trees from Pak Chong so I hope to duplicate your success.

[stoneman]

Mike...

That is great...Our first year we had 11 avocados...This year looks like a good harvest...Have not had any fruit drop and the wind and storms that we have had have not effected the trees...Haven't taken any pictures since the ones I posted here several months ago...Will try to remember my camera and get some new pictures next week...

Stoneman

Wonders never cease! i was down in the dumps due to killing half of my perfectly healthy grafted tress due to applying fertilizer according ( I thought ) as was supposed to do, i.e. 3 months after planting. Oh well, now a confirmed organic dude.

Anyway, yesterday found 2 fruit on a 4 year old planted from seed tree. Life is good again!!

Stoneman,

I'm green with envy. My wife did manage to get some (8) grafted trees from Pak Chong so I hope to duplicate your success.

[soidog2]

The avocado pollination thread was fantastic and finally spelled it all out for me. Excellent for a 90 year old report. Do you know what "Hass" is, A or B? . Ever see any "fuertes" out this way? Great for the home with wonderful flavor but not marketable. Thanks much

If you are still interested, about three weeks ago I picked up some “Fuerte" trees at the Pak Chong research station.

Best

[stoneman]

Soidog...

I bought 8 Fuertes in Pak Chong last week...First time I have seen them...Also bought some Kanoes, Petersens and Valentine...Trying to get a mixture...I do not know whether Valentine is an A or B and no one seems to know...So will plant in the middle of everything...

My Booth 7's are ripe and we started picking last week

Petersens seem to be late this year...Should be ready now, but it looks like another month...Also not a great year for the few Hass trees...Every year, I always think that Next Year will be good for the Hass...

But I did get 130 Australian Hass trees in Pak Chong, so I hope they will do good...Mixing them with Booth 7s and Bucaneers..

Stoneman

[BigSnake]

Nice Plant, wish I could get mine to grow like that. Maybe I try a little crop rotation, hmmmmmm!! GOOD Job SoiDog