Is It Fair?

[meemiathai]

I don't have a problem.

In fact I feel very lucky.

It's just that I see someone looking for 100% fairness in another thread.

[chico]

I don't have a problem.

In fact I feel very lucky.

It's just that I see someone looking for 100% fairness in another thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

returning a favor?

no, i was never looking for 100% fairness, i never said that, i reiterated two times that i was just asking if someone could give me an undertandable answer -

but, "i am not disappointed", maybe i should polish my english to be better understood?

[astral]

If you don't think it is fair, why don't you adopt a Thai village and share your monthly money with them?

[jkwn]

Is it fair that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing is fair. Life is not supposed to be fair. It was not designed to be fair... it was designed so that the fittest, fastest, most deadly etc etc etc survive. Welcome to Life!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah nothing in life is fair or simple. So no matter how you don't like it, THAT'S LIFE and you have to live with it or try to make it better.

[Scallywag]

Is it fair that

farmers(thai) work all day long under the sun just to get 1 or 2 thousand baht a month.

factory workers working 12 hours a day to get 5000 baht a month.

whilst me working 9 days only a month and receive more than HK$20000/thai baht 100,000,

whilst some govt. on the other side of the planet buy people beer and send them to watch football matches.

Not criticizing anything, but what is "fair"?

There are people from Vietnam smuggling themselves into HK, committing crimes for the purpose of getting caught so they would be allowed? to stay in the prison in HK where they could earn some money to go back.

For some unlucky people on this planet, your so-called prisons are heaven to them already!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Give some of your cash to the needy then.

[mbkudu]

I suggest to anyone that is concerned with fairness in the world, read 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman,' by John Perkins. If you think that America is a beacon of freedom, democracy, justice, world peace and all that other nice BS, think again.

[Spee]

If you think that America is a beacon of ..... justice .....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Go to the courts looking for justice, that's what you find .... just us ....."

Richard Pryor ... circa 1975

[Spee]

On a more serious note ....

If you think that America is a beacon of freedom, democracy, justice, world peace and all that other nice BS, think again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm thinking "out loud" here .... so lemmee see .... American is not a beacon for all of these things ..... so that must mean that places like Iran, Cuba, Libya, Sudan, Brazil, Indonesia and places like that are the true beacons of "freedom, democracy, justice, world peace, and all that other nice BS."

Puh ---- leeeezze!

[Spee]

Just because oranges are a fruit and oranges are orange in color, does not mean all fruits are orange in color. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kao jai Rav ...

I'm just tired of people taking cheap shots at the American system and way of life, which despite its numerous flaws, has arguably the best model and track record for fairness and opportunity in the world.

If things were different, so many millions of people would be knocking down the doors of places like North Korea, or Ethiopia, or so many dozens of other countries with substandard ways of life, opportunities, and overall prosperity.

Cheers !

[JemJem]

whilst some govt. on the other side of the planet buy people beer and send them to watch football matches.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you mean by the above ?! Which government/s does/do such a thing ??!!

Cheers.

Jem

[meemiathai]

Without middle men, how would you expect produce to get from the farmer to your local supermarket?  The notion that they don't provide a valuable service is commie BS.

So you think it's fair for the amount of some of the middlemen charge?

If it were too expensive, someone else would come in and undercut them. Supply and demand, supply and demand.

The principles of free trade and supply and demand cease to work when anyone or anything holds a monopoly and can dictate any damned price they want.

[mbkudu]

If you think that America is a beacon of ..... justice .....

"Go to the courts looking for justice, that's what you find .... just us ....."

Richard Pryor ... circa 1975

Spee, I am asking nicely for a simple request: Just read his book and then come back here and tell what you think. There is a reason why America is afluent; it has

gotten there on the backs of others. I do also agree with Ravisher's general perception that it is a dog eat dog world and only the strongest will dominate at the top, but times will change.

Edited January 21, 2005 by mbkudu

[meemiathai]

I don't have a problem.

In fact I feel very lucky.

It's just that I see someone looking for 100% fairness in another thread.

returning a favor?

no, i was never looking for 100% fairness, i never said that, i reiterated two times that i was just asking if someone could give me an undertandable answer -

but, "i am not disappointed", maybe i should polish my english to be better understood?

I wasn't pointing at you, chico.

I did read clearly what you were saying.

So that's why you don't need to be disappointed.

[meemiathai]

whilst some govt. on the other side of the planet buy people beer and send them to watch football matches.

What do you mean by the above ?! Which government/s does/do such a thing ??!!

Cheers.

Jem

I heard people saying it about the UK. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Spee]

is a reason why America is afluent; it has gotten there on the backs of others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Complete steer manure, IMHO.

America thrives because our most wise founding fathers designed a very good system of checks and balances for government, and put into place the chance for anyone who wants to work hard, to build a successful life with the opportunity to do practically anything they might want to do. It ain't a perfect system by any stretch, but it is the best thing going.

Case in point. One of my nephews is married to a daughter of Vietnamese immigrants. Her family came to the US 30 years ago as boat people with little more than pennies in their pockets. Now 30 years later, they are prosperous US citizens, making an above average living, and own their own house in a nice well-to-do neighborhood. Just how many other places in the world is this possible?

America is affluent in part because people like these people are welcomed with open arms, and provided the opportunity to be successful. America is affluent because people like these people have a tremendous work ethic and take full advantage of the opportunities afforded to them.

[Richard Hall]

A while ago "Tornado" made a post in the joke section which I think fits nicely to answer to the original question. Actually, much more philosophy than a joke. People tend to have different approaches to life and understanding about life, happiness and fairness.

Make a read and start pondering. Thanks, again Tornado for this contribution:

"A boat docked in a tiny Mexican village. An American tourist complimented

the Mexican fisherman on the quality of his fish and asked how long it

took him to catch them.

"Not very long," answered the Mexican.

"But then, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more?" asked the

American.

The Mexican explained that his small catch was sufficient to meet his

needs and those of his family.

The American asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"

"I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, and take a siesta

With my wife. In the evenings, I go into the village to see my friends, have

A few drinks, play the guitar, and sing a few songs...I have a full life."

The American interrupted, "I have an MBA from Harvard and I can help

you! You should start by fishing longer every day. You can then sell the

extra fish you catch. With the extra revenue, you can buy a bigger boat.

With

the extra money the larger boat will bring, you can buy a second one and a

third one and so on until you have an entire fleet of trawlers. Instead of

selling your fish to a middleman, you can negotiate directly with the

processing

plants and maybe even open your own plant. You can then leave this little

village and move to Mexico City, Los Angeles, or even New York City! From

there you can direct your huge enterprise."

"How long would that take?" asked the Mexican.

"Twenty, perhaps twenty-five years," replied the American.

"And after that?"

"Afterwards? That's when it gets really interesting," answered the

American, laughing. "When your business gets really big, you can start

selling stocks and make millions!"

"Millions? Really? And after that?"

"After that you'll be able to retire, live in a tiny village near the

coast, sleep late, play with your children, catch a few fish, take a siesta,

and spend your evenings drinking and enjoying your friends!"

[meemiathai]

I read this as well and liked it very much.

[Gazza]

Something else to ponder.

An old Native American Indian Chief sat in his hut on the reservation smoking a ceremonial pipe and eyeing two United States government officials who had been sent to interview him on the subject of how he viewed the progress made over the years by the white man in the country which once was his domain.

One of the officials spoke, "Chief Two Eagles, you have observed the white man and his culture for over ninety years, you’ve seen his wars and his material wealth, you’ve seen his progress and the damage that he has done, so when you consider all the events that have happened during your lifetime, perhaps you would give us your opinion as to where the white men went wrong."

The Chief stared at the officials for a moment and then calmly pronounced, "When white men found this land, Indians were running it. No taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, women did all the work, medicine man consultations were free, Indian man spent all day hunting and fishing, and all night having sex".

Then the old Indian chief leaned back, smiled and said, "Only white men would be dumb enough to think that they could improve a system as good as that".

[mbkudu]

is a reason why America is afluent; it has gotten there on the backs of others.

Complete steer manure, IMHO.

America thrives because our most wise founding fathers designed a very good system of checks and balances for government, and put into place the chance for anyone who wants to work hard, to build a successful life with the opportunity to do practically anything they might want to do. It ain't a perfect system by any stretch, but it is the best thing going.

Case in point. One of my nephews is married to a daughter of Vietnamese immigrants. Her family came to the US 30 years ago as boat people with little more than pennies in their pockets. Now 30 years later, they are prosperous US citizens, making an above average living, and own their own house in a nice well-to-do neighborhood. Just how many other places in the world is this possible?

America is affluent in part because people like these people are welcomed with open arms, and provided the opportunity to be successful. America is affluent because people like these people have a tremendous work ethic and take full advantage of the opportunities afforded to them.

Actually it's not steer manure if you read history, just a little. The Founding Fathers

were slave traders. The American South was fully constructed from slave labor. Black slaves, Native Americans and women had NO voting righrts or rights to own property.

Your nephew's wife was welcomed with open arms by affluent Americans whose country destroyed her country in a pointless 'police action' as it's officially called.

Most of the recent immigrants (last 40 years) living in the USA are there because the USA has caused so much disruption and war in their homelands that they have nowhere else to go. The US government has wreaked such havoc in Central America that the US is full of desparate migrant workers from these countries trying to make it. Take a good look around the 'Melting Pot.' Why are these people in America? What caused them to end up there? What happened to them in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, El Salvador, Panama, Colombia, Guatamala, Nicaragua,

Cuba, Dominican Republic, Samolia, Afganistan and Iraq? They all have a tale to tell that most Americas will never hear. If you don't want to hear me out, go watch the inaguration on television; it's glossy and stress free.

[Erwin1011]

Just want to remind you that in the 120 odd years of it'd existance, there has been not a single year that the US of A under whatever format has been not involved in a war somewhere. Those wars were ALL of an aggressive nature. G. Bush is keeping up a 120 odd years of tradition of aggression.

[aughie]

Boy that example of the Native Americans is great. Lounge around never worrying about surviving the winter. Never worry about getting killed by other tribes. There was no crime amongst them. They danced with wolves. None of the native americans ever practiced slavery or attempted genocide. Read the journals of lewis and clark for starters and then move on to the history of the iroquois nation. The Native Americans were decimated by european settlers not Americans. It took awhile for the American psyche to develop. Ditto for slavery. You all gave birth to us.

Labor did this. Labor did that. There is no need for math and science. There is no need for public education. Anything worth knowing can be learned from a journeymen apprenticeship. A railroad can be built from a pick and shovel. Labor built the world. BTW how does a light switch chase away the dark at night?

And the Mexican on the beach, oh what a life. Once again there is no aggression outside his little world. His world will always be a safe place. There was never a need for NATO or any other military force. Afterall we could all take our cue from the native americans and the fishermen in the world. Or better yet let's learn from the gorillas. They don't build nuclear bombs. I remember reading an article about a teacher who wanted to stop world violence. He beleived we should look to the animals. He did sign language with Coco a gorrilla which communicated with humans via sign language. This is what he said to Coco: "Coco teach us to love. Show us the way, Coco." Brillant. And before anyone says animals don't fight to the death because they are more intelligent, animals would kill each other if they could. They will not risk a mortal wound, a wound that may not kill them on the spot but will finish them eventually.

Mexico's second largest source of income is the money illegal immigrants send home from the US. The Mexican government has no incentive to solve it's emmigration situation. They like it. They have no incentive to improve conditions so their people do not emmigrate. Mexico is a rich nation robbed by it's leaders. Blame the US. Do not look at their own leaders. It may induce a revolution. Point the finger and do not look at the failures and corruption of latin american governments. Always blame someone else for failure and always take the credit for good news. ######, blame the spanairds for coming over here. Blame progress. Blame time. I want to go back. I want to go back to the womb! It was so nice and warm there. Wah! Wah!

What period on earth has there never been war and agression? Hmmm? America has been envolved in war because it assumed the leadership role. If other nations were in the lead they would be envolved in the war of the times. If you don't want war then usher in the one world government ASAP or retain your identity and count on some nation to step up and take the flack and the lead. Does your nation want the job and the perks as well as the obligations that come with the leadership job? Be careful what you wish for folks.

Oh, I forgot about the UN. Let them lead. The UN, they don't kill anyone they just let people die while they skim billions of dollars into their personl retirement chest.

:peacebrother

[Spee]

Just want to remind you that in the 120 odd years of it'd existance, there has been not a single year that the US of A under whatever format has been not involved in a war somewhere. Those wars were ALL of an aggressive nature. G. Bush is keeping up a 120 odd years of tradition of aggression.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had typed out a long response to this warped logic, but why bother? As with the others, you are entitled to your own wrong opinion. We agree to disagree. Mai bpen rai.

[aaaaaa]

Actually it's not steer manure if you read history, just a little. The Founding Fathers

were slave traders. The American South was fully constructed from slave labor. Black slaves, Native Americans and women had NO voting righrts or rights to own property.

Your nephew's wife was welcomed with open arms by affluent Americans whose country destroyed her country in a pointless 'police action' as it's officially called.

Most of the recent immigrants (last 40 years) living in the USA are there because the USA has caused so much disruption and war in their homelands that they have nowhere else to go. The US government has wreaked such havoc in Central America that the US is full of desparate migrant workers from these countries trying to make it. Take a good look around the 'Melting Pot.' Why are these people in America? What caused them to end up there? What happened to them in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, El Salvador, Panama, Colombia, Guatamala, Nicaragua,

Cuba, Dominican Republic, Samolia, Afganistan and Iraq? They all have a tale to tell that most Americas will never hear. If you don't want to hear me out, go watch the inaguration on television; it's glossy and stress free.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I saw once a program on BBC called something like "State terrorism" or "Terrorism sponsored by state". one chapter of this progtram apart from such as Pinochet's regime or those black days in Argentina was about such terror or "economical blockade" of Nicaragua. they were even providing interviews with former CIA officers (I think even its former chief) who admited that actually they were doing what is by their own definition IS terrorism....

this came to my mind after reading your post - thanks.

and also for mentioning all the "freedom" shown on latest TV news here - tear gas etc etc on protesters for Bush's inagurations. so much for freedom - the word which accroding to Thai reporter Bush used 27 times in his speech ! people lying down on the pevements after sever beating, or carried away with mucus and tears all over their faces after that tear gas. nice!

not to mentione almost the exterminated native indians. at least Australia found modesty and fairness to apologise to its aborigenes (although funny, again - just sroyy is enough or fair?) - USA never did such thing, neither to red-skin indians whose land they stolen nor to black africans whom they used to build up their paradise and abused systematically.

yeah - Iraq, Afganistan... my wife told me that Iran is named next already on TV, she said - check about it on net. I can't find any info - can anyone give some reference?

and about - "cheap knocks" ? Ha! that is sweet !

personally I have nothing against american people. I have a lot of freinds, very nice people among them. one of them - professional translator of Chinese who lives in Taiwan about 14 years. he told me he participated in protests there during US invasion of Iraq....

anyway..... as mbkudud said: no need words, simply enough to watch those news: "it's glossy and stress free." my thai wife laughed ans told me: "ha! in Thailand if a king goes anywhere, people bowdon to him and offer wai as show of respect; and even Thaksin who is criticised by many farangs - he goes everywhere and mixes up with public and nobody ever thrown stones in his direction - as they show on these news americans do towards Bush"....

as for me - I know that every country has good and bad. yes, USA might definetely have a lot of progressive things. but I don't think it is a "best model". as I said elsewhere in this Forum - at least in Asia where I live 8 years I'd never seen on TV or read in news that student come to school with gun and shoot classmates. this was pointed out by one newspaper in Taiwan as I recall.... yes - in economical sense these might be "3rd world" contries - but in culture and many other important aspects - most of these countires are much ahead of even USA !

[aaaaaa]

by the way - Time magazine (BTW - american !) has printed quite big and scandalous article few years back - that one of US companies General Electrics or General Motors, I don't recall - was helping Nazis that time.

and then comes to mind that scandal - Watergeihgt? - when secretly wepons were being sold to oficial ENEMY - Iran ! ha! so funny! not to mention bombing of Yugoslavia - "national interest"!

many facts never even were allowed into mass media. some "secret wars"

I don't think these are "cheap knocks".

anyway.

such debate is useless. those who are staunch believers in "best model" will remain so. those who know alternative facts - will remain with their opinion.

I think history will show who is right.

my friend who lives in Chicago, IL, wrote me once: "this country as a nation has no future. already latinas dominate population of local comunities - not to mention the constant inflow of asians, east-europians etc.... some areas in this city speak solely in their own language" . although actually since very beginning of its existence it was a matter of never ending arguments- what is the definition of real american nation. is it those "natives" like shown int that movie - was it "Gangs of New York", or those first trappers and pioneers - although are there any "pure" descendents of them anymore nowdays?

[aaaaaa]

Is it fair that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing is fair. Life is not supposed to be fair. It was not designed to be fair... it was designed so that the fittest, fastest, most deadly etc etc etc survive. Welcome to Life!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this I can agree with you on. although after serious pondering through personal first-hand experience I came to conclusion: one shouldn't let him-/herself become cynical or bitter. it is not a "law of jungle" as I had impression in the begining. there is a lot of fairness too in this life. lot of people are fair. at least in this country, Thailand, I find much more fair people than in some other, if compared. I'd say Thai people are in average fair. of course - it is wrong to generalise in either direction. this is the problem - most of people go from one extreme into another, generalising, more often by selected evidences.

but yes - life isn't simple. it is tough - and a lot of things in it aint' fair. I think one has to face it at least to be ready for whatever unfainrness may come our way.

[aaaaaa]

Your observation here is wrong... You went wrong when you said..... "So that must mean... blah blah blah..."  YOU said it must mean... nobody is saying that here... Just because oranges are a fruit and oranges are orange in color, does not mean all fruits are orange in color. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hahaha! that is very cool comment! perhaps most cool I ever read in this Forum !

"all fruits are oranges" - typical generalisation.

exactly! nodoy says that Brazil or Iraq is a "best models'..... it is just another extreme. perhaps there is no any single country in the world nowdays which could be considerest such a best model. I think the best way to perceive this world is - to see what is good in each country and make sort of virtual model. but again I dount that US would be that. although sure, there are a lot of progressive and worth of following things there.

I just think: if such "3rd world country" for last few centuries was and is trying to follow such policy - why can't such a developed country as US do so, or some other leading countries. I think world would be much better place.

[aaaaaa]

Just want to remind you that in the 120 odd years of it'd existance, there has been not a single year that the US of A under whatever format has been not involved in a war somewhere. Those wars were ALL of an aggressive nature. G. Bush is keeping up a 120 odd years of tradition of aggression. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

exactly!

here I finally found fresh news:

http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news/?...859-1&c=&p=Iran

almost all of first 10 results related to possibility war with Iran .

U.S. Views Iran As Potential Trouble Spot

WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) refuses to rule out war with Iran. Iranian President Mohammad Khatami (news - web sites) says his country is ready to defend itself against a U.S. attack. The United States is pushing for a peaceful solution to its nuclear impasse with Iran but, with mistrust on both sides running high, encouraging signs are hard to find...

Beyond that, Rice listed Iran among six "outposts of tyranny...."

US sabre-rattling over Iran: military boldness or bluff?

The Pentagon (news - web sites) blasted the article by award-winning investigative reporter Seymour Hersh as "riddled with errors" but did not deny its overall premise or contention that Iran could be the next US target

Joseph Cirincione, a disarmament expert with the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, had little doubt that Bush and his hardline war council were gearing up for a showdown with Iran.

"They believe they have a mandate, they have a limited amount of time to act on that mandate, and that by taking bold action they can change world history -- and they intend to do it," he said.

John Pike, director of the GlobalSecurity.org think tank, said a campaign against Iran's nuclear, chemical, biological and missile facilities could be launched in a matter of "months, not years."

NATO urges EU, US to coordinate Iran pressure

Cheney Puts Iran on List of Trouble Spots

Britain unlikely to back any US attack against Iran: experts

A report in the New Yorker magazine this week said US commandos had been operating inside Iran since mid-2004 to search out potential targets for attack.

and by the way, about 'freedom' :

Army Sergeant Who Refused Iraq Duty Charged With Desertion

well, yeah, he will not be executed as in Saddam's regime though deserters soldiers, but ....

``I had no idea they'd be charging me with desertion, so I guess you could say I'm kind of surprised,'' Benderman said in an interview today with Bloomberg News. He faces a prison sentence of as long as seven years if convicted, the loss of pay and benefits, and a dishonorable discharge...

``If you take a look at the devastating effects of war, how much destruction and horror goes on, you can't even imagine it,'' said Benderman, 40. ``I'll never forget for as long as I live this one little girl standing by a road. Her arm was so badly burned it was black, burned to a crisp.''

.......

About 2,400 U.S. soldiers were classified as deserters or absent without leave last year, down from 3,600 in 2003 and 4,400 in 2002, said Dov Schwartz, an Army spokesman.

In the first half of 2004, 13 soldiers were granted conscientious-objector status and 10 were denied, Schwartz said. Figures for the second half weren't available, he said.

In 2003, 31 applications were approved and 30 denied. In 2002, 17 were approved and six denied; in 2001, 18 were approved and five denied.

surely I guess that little girl will be jumping at first opportunity to go to the country of "best model" which "liberated" her !

[Spee]

aaaaaa wrote ...

..... 17,073.045 reponses to the same thread .....

Anything else? Seems like you might have forgotten something.

[aaaaaa]

Anything else? Seems like you might have forgotten something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

seems like you are very good in maths ! did you use calculator or what to come this this figure?

but anyway - is there any limits for posts?

yeah, sure ! I like this thread about fairness ! I was gonna sleep already , but since you ask...

ok, here is another one - on your personal request:

Bush Turns Attention to Daunting 2nd Term

59 minutes ago

...As the world assessed the meaning of Bush's commitment, North Korea (news - web sites) condemned the United States as a "wrecker of democracy as it ruthlessly infringes upon the sovereignty of other countries." Tensions with North Korea have been raw since Bush branded it part of an "axis of evil" with Iran and prewar Iraq (news - web sites).....

seems like an interesting exchange of "fair" name calling between N. Korea and USA! speking of - what is FAIR ?

while :

With more than 1,360 Americans dead and 10,500 wounded in Iraq's violence, Bush hopes the elections will begin to bring stability and strengthen the foundations of democracy. Going into the elections, the administration readily acknowledges that four of Iraq's 18 provinces — including Baghdad — are unstable.

yeah, well, spreading of "democracy" does has its price - doesn't ?

[aaaaaa]

sorry, spee and others, can't help it!

here is what I feel like realy FAIR :

Icelanders Take Anti Iraq War Campaign to U.S.

By Vidir Sigurdsson

REYKJAVIK (Reuters) - A group of nationals from tiny Iceland slammed their government's support of the U.S.-led war in Iraq (news - web sites), apologizing to Iraqis in a full-page advertisement in The New York Times on Friday.

 

The advertisement, paid for with donations from more than 4,000 citizens which constitutes about 1.4 percent of the population, demanded "that Iceland be immediately removed from the list of invaders in the 'coalition of the willing."'

"We apologies to the Iraqi people for the Icelandic ministers' support for the invasion of Iraq," the ad said.

Four out of five Icelanders want their country off the list, according to a Gallup opinion poll published earlier this month....

although of course :

University of Iceland associate professor of political science Baldur Thorhallsson said the administration was "in trouble, but not in serious trouble" over the affair, which lately has dominated the news and public debate.

NO RIPPLE FROM AD

"The government is not going to back off and will not leave the coalition. ... In no way is this ad going to affect the policy of the government," he said....

because:

Some critics say the government sided with Washington in an effort to keep U.S. air force fighter jets at Keflavik air base. Reykjavik sees the base as vital for security and is worried by U.S. plans to close it due to the end of Cold War tensions.

"Several hundreds of jobs are at stake," said Hannibalsson, arguing that the base was probably "the real reason" for the cabinet's eagerness to please Washington....

well, so much for concern about "democracy" ! it sems like it is as always all about money only ! like source of crude oil in Iraq BTW .... the real interest ...

well, it is good to know that at least some people DO what is fair, not only talk, even though their voice isn't "oficial" one - not from their government !