From: At Least 77 Injured In Bangkok Clashes

coconutmonkey · April 13, 2009

No offence, Rainman. Actually, I like your posts.... funny.... but not well thought out, that's all.

Says a guy called 'coconutmonkey'.

I thought of that all by myself.

Anyway, I like that you show you care about Thailand, and even if it's through Taksin that you find that care, then you have a good heart too. Cheers

Edited April 13, 2009 by coconutmonkey

OldenAtwoody · April 13, 2009

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

Agreed. I blame the spineless & corrupt Police force. This is a crowd-control issue. They ought to hire some trainers from LAPD for this work. That'd settle it quickly. "Crack heads and ask questions later."

blackman · April 13, 2009

So anyways, what does everyone suggest the solution to the problems are? I see fighting and attacking on here but nobody offers a solution. Do we all agree that there is no solution? Or is there a genius around that has one?

i am your man, in fact i have been offering solutions all afternoon

the problem is none of them lead to the return of your man Thaksin so you have not responded

like many armchair protaganists, if it does not suit you just ignore it

i would advise you to watch Thaksin interviewed on CNN

he looked like a bumbling fool.

he is a spent force and after watching that interview anyone who thinks he could run this country again in my opinion is an idiot

Netfan · April 13, 2009

So, what's the solution?

Yep, thats the big question. Unfortunetly it seems to be in the hands of the guy sitting in Dubai (or koh Chang or wherever). Because the govt blew it in Pattaya, he's got the upper hand. But if he were to tell everyone to go home and settle this thru discussion and voting - the democratic way, then maybe some progress would be made. But he won't do that, because its his money and power he's after. Anarchy suits his purpose. An election does not. Not now. He's done as far as a democratic solution is concerned.

robblok · April 13, 2009

Your reply is absolutely mind-boggling! I can see you have never visited people in a small village in the North and Northeast. "Even in Holland" indeed. I suspect you have no idea of what life is like for low income people in The Netherlands, much less a poorer country like Thailand.

I think i have more then enough information about Holland seeing that i have grown up there. I know for a fact that now in Holland there is not an university in every big town. Ppl have to travel to get to them. I also know that many students in Holland have debts after they stop studying because of the expenses of universities.

I think you don't have an idea about the recources Thailand has. It just can't afford to build Universities everywhere. Are you telling me that there are really no universities in Isaan ? or are you telling me they are not conveniently close.

But you are right about one thing i have never been in one of the poor villages in the North and Northeast. I do however have seen poverty in Thailand. As far as i know everyone could go to universities and there are special student loans for them. I have heard that there are even free places for those that are real good.

I might have been misinformed but this is what i know.

OldenAtwoody · April 13, 2009

Rubber Bullets , Tear gas , and Water Cannons.. Effective enough ......
All Farang are requested to wear Green Shirts and stay home and do nothing , or attend a Local Irish Pub and moan some more..

after 15 years in the Kingdom , I am still constantly amazed by the basic problem solving abilities of the Powers that Be..

AMAZING THAILAND is still my favorite Motto...

Based on what I saw in Pattaya last week, the shirt of choice for the properly dressed Farang is a a bare, flabby yet hairy chest, lightly doused with warm UK beer.

OldenAtwoody · April 13, 2009

This is my first posting ever. I am in business here in Thailand for over 7 years and live in the north with my wife and soon 3 children. The first thing I would do if I was in charge is to revoke the passport of Taksin, and notify all embassies to not honor his passport to bring him home to face criminal charges. I would also confiscate all frozen assets known to belong to Taksin or controlled by him in relatives names, and reimbuse Thailand for the damages he has inflicted by inciting civil unrest, and the remaining to the Thai citizens who have lost their jobs and businesses caused by Taksin damaging the economy. There is only one way to kill a snake, and that is to cut its head off, and you can read into that as you wish. There is a rule of law in Thailand, and a process to make changes, and that process must be respected and restored and not manipulated by a billionaire employing thugs which many were also the same ones wearing yellow shirts I suspect. These factions are killing Thailand financially speaking, and they do not care if a few innocent people die in the process, so why should the police and military care if a few of these animals also die to make a point.

Frankly, with Thaksin quoted widely (yesterday) as calling for a revolution, I'm surprised that he has not been denounced at the highest levels of Thai Government, or even by the Monarchy. This is serious business now.

By fomenting open warfare, he is committing what is universally considered "treason", and I imagine he’d be strongly demanded to be returned (extradited) from whatever government (Dubai?) is currently giving him shelter.

smallprawn · April 13, 2009

So anyways, what does everyone suggest the solution to the problems are? I see fighting and attacking on here but nobody offers a solution. Do we all agree that there is no solution? Or is there a genius around that has one?

Solution........ Tanks, tear gas n bullets will just provoke an angry response. These people are fighting for something they beleive to be right and attcking them will only add fuel to the flames... However, dropping big sack of snakes on the massing crowds of protestors could possibly do the trick..... Thai folk hate them, Just the sight of a snake and they're off!!. They're scared sh1tless of them. A stratigicly dropped sack of snakes onto any crowd of thai protesters would see them scatter in all directions pronto.. May cause mayhem but i rekon it might do the trick

Streets cleared peacefully, job done...

quite simple really

rogerdee123 · April 13, 2009

This is my first posting ever. I am in business here in Thailand for over 7 years and live in the north with my wife and soon 3 children. The first thing I would do if I was in charge is to revoke the passport of Taksin, and notify all embassies to not honor his passport to bring him home to face criminal charges. I would also confiscate all frozen assets known to belong to Taksin or controlled by him in relatives names, and reimbuse Thailand for the damages he has inflicted by inciting civil unrest, and the remaining to the Thai citizens who have lost their jobs and businesses caused by Taksin damaging the economy. There is only one way to kill a snake, and that is to cut its head off, and you can read into that as you wish. There is a rule of law in Thailand, and a process to make changes, and that process must be respected and restored and not manipulated by a billionaire employing thugs which many were also the same ones wearing yellow shirts I suspect. These factions are killing Thailand financially speaking, and they do not care if a few innocent people die in the process, so why should the police and military care if a few of these animals also die to make a point.

Frankly, with Thaksin quoted widely (yesterday) as calling for a revolution, I'm surprised that he has not been denounced at the highest levels of Thai Government, or even by the Monarchy. This is serious business now.

By fomenting open warfare, he is committing what is universally considered "treason", and I imagine he’d be strongly demanded to be returned (extradited) from whatever government (Dubai?) is currently giving him shelter.

Yeah .... looks to me like Thaksin is proving to everyone that the coup in 2006 was justified.

george · April 13, 2009

Update:

94 people injured and 24 in severe conditions

BANGKOK: -- Thai PBS reports 94 people injured from the government's crackdown on the protesters. The doctors confirm there is no dead victim. The patients are sent to five hospitals including Rama, Phra Mongkut and Rajviti.

The station interviewed a doctor who is in charge and the report says 24 people are in serious conditions. The majority of injured people have gone home.

-- The Nation 2009-04-13

Indra · April 13, 2009

Not to nitpick, but while the velocity of a falling round certainly does not have the same velocity as a directly-fired round, it still can be deadly. If the woman in our compound in Iraq had been hit in the body armor, the round almost certainly would not have penetrated (as it would have if it had been fired directly at her.) As it was, it hit her in the neck above the collar of her vest, and it killed her. She died within a minute or so.
While Mythbusters certainly provide good entertainment, and they do bust some myths, the fact of the matter is that rounds falling back to earth can still pose a threat. If you hear a lot of gunfire, the prudent thing to do is take some sort of cover (although a spent round may be coming from a rifle fired beyond your hearing.)

I have to laugh when Abhisit says that his troops only fired live bullets into the air. He obviously believes that bullets fired into the air will remain up there forever and never come down somewhere. This guy is beyond ridiculous. Some poor farmer might get hit in the head in the field kilometers away without even knowing where it came from. If you don't want to hurt somebody, don't fire with live bullets, period.

And if you don't want bullets fired, then don't try to kill the soldiers. And yes, a burning runaway bus aimed at a group of people will kill them. And dont throw bricks at unarmed firemen. Or is that okay? And btw, the fireman first went out and tried to ask the reds to NOT throw things at them,. Red response- threw a brick at the guy.

The reds have been the ones starting the violence, trying very hard to provoke a response. The reds have been very lucky so far that so much restraint has been shown.

That's the difficulty between the law enforcer and the outlaw.

With your logic "if you don't want bullets fired, then don't try to kill the soldiers.", it seems that you are just a coleslaw.

Gangsters use violence to pressure somebody to get information they need. Do you think that policemen should follow the way?

Indra · April 13, 2009

Only in Thailand you can see soldiers are restraining seriously while a civilian is simply (and seriously as well) taking photograph

OldenAtwoody · April 13, 2009

Excuse me... but Thaksin is not part of the problem... he IS the problem! None of this would have ever taken place if he'd paid his taxes. He got caught with his pants down and was run out of office. Now he wants his stolen assets back. Sorry A-hole, crooks who get caught don't get their booty back. They get "hard time". Stop destroying the country because you got caught. Come back and take your punishment like a man instead of crying like the baby that you are. And tell all of your brainwashed/duped lackeys to go back to their farms and sheds and get a life. They're only hurting themselves and everyone else in this country for the sake of a lunatic madman.

My understanding of Thaksins' rise to wealth (corrections welcomed):

· He was a lowly police officer in the North.

· He opened a PC repair shop as a sideline, and suddenly gets a cell phone company operating license for the Northern part of Thailand, without previous experience to run a cell phone company.

· He acquires other cell companies and becomes the cell magnate of Thailand.

· He enters politics.

· He sells his cell phone company to Singaporean interests to avoid and sales tax in Thailand.

· He gets pinned for some real estate deals (along with his wife), buying undervalued Government land, and immediately re-selling to commercial developers for a huge profit (while in office as Prime Minister).

· He flees country, two steps ahead of the Jailer.

· He has a vast number of assets seized by the Thai government.

· He divorces wife (possibly to shield financials).

· His children, who became millionaires overnight, have assets seized for Thai taxes.

· He leads a rebellion to return to Thailand as the head of a new government (today) and exonerate his reputation and bank account.

Indra · April 13, 2009

Why would there have to be a good school everywhere. Thailand isn't a rich country just center it around important places. If you want your child to go somewhere you should move closer to the spots. Even in Holland it was quite normal for ppl to either find a room close to school or travel 4 hours a day to a school. If you want something it can be done.
Things don't always have to be handed to you you have to put a lil effort in it. You put effort in it and she got her education... good. I have seen ppl from other provinces study in BKK its quite normal.

You cant expect a good school everywhere within walking distance.

I am more pro democrats then pro taksin but i think all them are big crooks who only care about their own money. It really doesnt mather much who is in charge they are there for their own not to help the ppl.

Your reply is absolutely mind-boggling! I can see you have never visited people in a small village in the North and Northeast. "Even in Holland" indeed. I suspect you have no idea of what life is like for low income people in The Netherlands, much less a poorer country like Thailand.

robblok,

I think that there is something wrong with your mind or your standard.

Do you think that everybody has enough money to rent a room? Or you think that they can always sell/rent their body so that they can earn enough money to rent a room.

Nevertheless, I agree with your last sentence, yes, all of them are crooks.

teddy_bare · April 13, 2009

The Thai Armed Forces will probably be using a version of 'The Rules for the Use of Force'. This is a common set of procedures that clearly instruct the armed personnel when to open fire, and often, how to graduate that use of force. Some of the reported incidents would certainly justify 'directing live rounds at the individual'. The incidents, many videoed, show that some individuals are attempting to harm personnel or property. The Armed Forces have a duty to protect the monachy and governmental personnel and property.

Fairly black and white if they are using this guidance document.

Having been on the receiving end of people trying to kill me, and having used this guidance, it protects the attacker as much as the attacked. The only problem is that they often use innocent people around them as protection, in that they hide in a crowd. Then again, if you wear a scarf around your head, take up a weapon and join the crowd, you are placing yourself at risk. Just as soldiers do when the don a uniform and take up arms to defend their country.

The difference is one has the Rule of Law behind it (no matter how badly that is administrated), the other is just thuggery, and undoubtably orchastrated by power players who remain out of the 'line of fire'.

Thailand maybe not be a model democracy, but it isnt exactly a dictatorship either. There are law courts and other ways to make a change.

When individuals arm themselves and are prepared to carry through their intention, then be prepared to be injured or die. You may become a Mayter, but a very dead one.

Perhaps that's the problem. reincarnation offers an alternative to being dead forever, hence no reason to be scared. Still it cant be that inviting if the protesters keep running away.

The solution, don't throw stone, petrol bombs etc at government forces because at some point they will shoot you.

Edited April 13, 2009 by teddy_bare

Tigs · April 13, 2009

I am losing track of all the threads nd where to put what.

Thaksin has just been interviewed on the BBC News. The newswoman tried to give him a hard time and his body language spoke volumes. Having been asked direct questions, Thaksin has just stated on live news.

He wants the fighting to stop

The reason for aggression is only because the soldiers are firing live bullets into the crowd.

There have been many many deaths of innocent Thai people

He says all the red shirts are protesting for is a true democracy

If the soldiers had not started firing there would be no trouble

The protesters are not armed, they may have sticks and stones

He is loyal to the king

He did not ask for revolution

He does not direct the red shirts what to do, he just gives them moral support

Under no circumstances is he giving them any money

The red shirts are there because they want to be, nobody is getting paid

All the media has been closed down and the truth is not getting out of Thailand, the people are being oppressed by a military government

He will be coming back

Well frankly I don't know how he has the neck. The BBC reporter saw straight through him. He is a complete utter lying bar steward. Where will it all end?

brickroad · April 13, 2009

think i saw the same clip and it was the first one i saw where the soldiers took aim, at a moving bus that had clearly been used to try and break their lines, a moving bus is as lethal as a bullet, the soldiers have a right to defend themselves and their colleagues.

POLITICAL TURMOIL

CRACKDOWN BEGINS

Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd, Army spokesman, said 300 protesters were in the area when security forces including soldiers and police moved in. He said the troops first tried to negotiate with the protesters, who were allegedly armed with molotov cocktails and tear gas themselves.

He said the talks broke down after some protesters tried to ram buses against the troops.

"The troops had to fire into the air. I repeat. They fired into the air and took action against the protesters," he said.

well despite what the army spokesman has to say - i saw a brief new clip - and i mean brief - and only aired once of soldiers taking aim with their rifles = no way shooting in the air or do they conside the air is front of them while they take aim of human targets to be shooting into the air - suggest they undergo weapons training again -- but if they think the people will believe what they are told - really dont think so - no like in the old days -- or is this another case of mushroom mentality -- keep the people in the dark and feed them bullsh+t --- the masses are getting a little smarter -

wolf5370 · April 13, 2009

About the bullets fired in the air coming down and killing...If I remember my A Level Physics, F=MA (Force = Mass * Acceleartion).

As acceleartion is gravity, that's about 10m/s/s. What's the mass of a spent bullet (remember its only the lead bit at the end - at worse stell jacketed) - 8g perhaps (that's 9mm at about 100-150 grains). So the maxmum force would be something like 0.8 Newtons.

If it hits point down (which is unlikely as it would be spinning and tumbling) the diameter is 9mm, so the area is about 64mm2.

This all works out to a little under 0.1777875 PSI - it takes at least 1 PSI to break skin, so its doubtful it could realy cause any damage at all.

Feel free to correct my physics - its been a while (like 20 years ).

On another note, could Thaksin be prosecuted (in his absense I guess) for treason now (Webster's definition)?

LawnGnome · April 13, 2009

Troops regain control of seized roads

By: Veera PrateepchaikulPublished: 13/04/2009 at 05:45 PM An uneasy calm returned to Bangkok after red-shirt protesters were forcibly dispersed by troops on Monday and retreated to their base in front of Government House, where they said would make a final stand.

The army regained control of all the main road intersections seized by supporters of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) in their attempt to cause traffic chaos and bring down the government.

Police and military sources said soldiers had dispersed the protesters from Victory Monument, Ratchathewi road, Din Daeng intersection and a long stretch of Vibhavadi Rangsit highway from Din Daeng to Lat Phrao intersection.

The debris left by the protesters, which included burned car tyres and torched public buses, would have to be cleared before all roads in these areas were reopened to normal traffic.

At least 30 public buses belonging to the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA) were hijacked by the protesters and used to block traffic and slow the advance of the troops.

About 10 were torched as the military moved to break up the protests.

Bus services in the inner city were suspended most of the day as the BMTA feared more would be taken over by UDD followers. Train services out of Hua Lampong station, the city's major termnal, were also suspended, with provincial servcies leaving from Bang Sue for the North and Northeast and Makkasan for the South. About 20,000 commuters were reported to have been affected.

The dispersed protesters mostly obeyed instructions to regroup at Government House, where several thousand protesters have been camping since March 26, when the followers of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra began their latest push to topple the government.

With the recapture of the city's major intersections, a nervous peace settled over the capital as night settled in. A minor clash was reported at the army headquarters on Ratchadamnoen road when hardcore protesters lobbed several petrol bombs into the grounds.

Army spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnoed denied claims spread by the red-shirts that a handful of protesters were shot dead by soldiers during the pre-dawn clashes at Din Daeng.

He said troops fired only blanks on that occasion, with wads of paper replacing the bullets. They were not lethal but might cause very minor injury up close.

The government announced about 70 people were injured in the early morning clashes, including 23 soldiers. Most of those treated were suffering the effects of teargas. The prime minister said four soldiers had bullet wounds.

The government, health officials and the military insisted there were no fatalities among the protesters.

Informed sources said troops might try to break up the main protest at Government House before dawn on Tuesday to ensure peace and order was restored in the city before business resumes after the long Sonkran holiday ends on Wednesday night.

Protesters who are not totally committed supporters of the UDD were advised the government to leave the protest site and return to their homes.

Bkk Post - http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1404...of-seized-roads

way2muchcoffee · April 13, 2009

About the bullets fired in the air coming down and killing...If I remember my A Level Physics, F=MA (Force = Mass * Acceleartion).
As acceleartion is gravity, that's about 10m/s/s. What's the mass of a spent bullet (remember its only the lead bit at the end - at worse stell jacketed) - 8g perhaps (that's 9mm at about 100-150 grains). So the maxmum force would be something like 0.8 Newtons.

If it hits point down (which is unlikely as it would be spinning and tumbling) the diameter is 9mm, so the area is about 64mm2.

This all works out to a little under 0.1777875 PSI - it takes at least 1 PSI to break skin, so its doubtful it could realy cause any damage at all.

Feel free to correct my physics - its been a while (like 20 years ).

On another note, could Thaksin be prosecuted (in his absense I guess) for treason now (Webster's definition)?

Actually your physics is incomplete, sorry. The relevant factors would be:

1) The pressure of the bullet (force per unit area). a relatively small force exerted over a small area can do considerable damage.

2) The impulse (change of momentum). When fast-moving objects are brought to rest in a very short time this can also result in great damage.

3) The work (the average force through a distance) required to slow the bullet. The body is responsible for the work involved in decreasing the kinetic energy of the bullet. If this occurs over a short distance the forces can be quite large.

4) You may also remember that in absence of any air resistance a projectile will have the same speed striking the ground as it does when it leaves the muzzle of the gun. Actually it would strike the ground at a slightly higher speed due to the difference in heights of the muzzle and the ground. Of course air resistance cannot be neglected in the case of a bullet, but there it is.

Edited April 13, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

dollysamson · April 13, 2009

On 2 March 1935, King Rama VII abdicated leaving many to ponder on his profound observation that Thailand in 1932 was not ready for democracy.

Appears like not ready in 2009

kujirasan · April 13, 2009

Logic response ... ( you cannot argue with common sense )
Agreed ..... The Red shirts have shown complete disrespect for the law and therefore should be held accountable.

You can have a peacefull protest to get your point accross... but they had no intention of a peacefull protest ....

I was watching Aljazara TV this morning and the head huncho was just making excuse after excuse when asked why the government car was attacked ... why was the government building siezed .... he said the protesters were enraged ... Well if they are so enraged why not go home and tip a cold bucket of water over there heads to cool down....

These guys are breaking the law .. they deserve the punishment...good on the army for taking action against these protesters.

Also, I blame Taksin as part of the problem as he is enticing them to cause mayhem and revolt... he should be extradited and charged accordingly... Thats what happens in a democratic society...

IMO..

May be the democracy that you are talking about is different than one generally accepted! The Law Breakers are the trash that do and been doing the Coups d'etat , in a boring and monotonous fashion!

You may live there but have no concept of nature of the Establishment Elite that is heavily link with the top brass of the Military through marriages and various pilfering partnership etc! They were weary of Taksin for one reason that he was an upstart muscling in on their racket!

The master puppeteer is in full control and the approval for anything of that nature comes from local US embassy, the so called retired former Generals are there and keep an eye on the whole show through their protege, Just try to look at these people and their Million Dollar life style should give you an idea about the whole show! here is a short list, Air Vice marshal Tin Sulenang, SIT SVETSILA, PREM, CHAVLEET YAN CHAYUT,

Manu Rupkachang, and the one that order the shooting and killing at Thamast University, the Thai members can correct the names and their correct spellings!

teddy_bare · April 13, 2009

About the bullets fired in the air coming down and killing...If I remember my A Level Physics, F=MA (Force = Mass * Acceleartion).
As acceleartion is gravity, that's about 10m/s/s. What's the mass of a spent bullet (remember its only the lead bit at the end - at worse stell jacketed) - 8g perhaps (that's 9mm at about 100-150 grains). So the maxmum force would be something like 0.8 Newtons.

If it hits point down (which is unlikely as it would be spinning and tumbling) the diameter is 9mm, so the area is about 64mm2.

This all works out to a little under 0.1777875 PSI - it takes at least 1 PSI to break skin, so its doubtful it could realy cause any damage at all.

Feel free to correct my physics - its been a while (like 20 years ).

On another note, could Thaksin be prosecuted (in his absense I guess) for treason now (Webster's definition)?

I won't correct your physics as you seem to enjoy it, if you have been at it for that long, but..........

Trust me, as stray bullet is just as deadly.

July 23, 2007

BAGHDAD: A stray bullet from Iraqi football fans celebrating a victory in the Asian Cup landed less than a metre from Australia's Chief of Army, Lieutenant General Peter Leahy. Elsewhere in Baghdad two people were killed and 15 wounded by celebratory gunfire.

It was early Saturday evening and General Leahy had just begun addressing about 100 Australian soldiers when small-arms fire could be clearly heard in the distance, hardly unusual in a city gripped by violence for four years.

Minutes into his address, outdoors at the Australian military compound in the tightly secured green zone, a bullet ricocheted off concrete between Regimental Sergeant Major Kevin Woods and Brigadier Justin Kelly.

"It just hit the concrete and bounced," Warrant Officer Woods said.

Brigadier Gerard Fogarty, Australia's commander in Iraq, also standing nearby, said it was the closest he had come to being shot in his career.

The official party retreated under cover as gunfire continued to echo around the city. Police said the two people were killed in central Baghdad straight after Iraq's national team beat Vietnam 2-0.

More than 200 people a year die in Iraq from the custom of celebrating events such as weddings and sporting victories with a burst of gunfire in the air. The bullets can travel more than a kilometre.

General Leahy joked that it was probably best to get out of the "lead rain".

PAUL1774 · April 13, 2009

Government ignores the problem like when Somchai was PM, Thai Visa experts complain and moan.
Government does it's job and takes control of Violent protesters disrupting everyones life, Thai Visa experts complain moan.

What is it with people here,?

What? I havent read a complaint on this thread YET!

But since you brought it up REMEMBER some of the folks here are pro Red Some are Con Red and yet still some are pro con's

im back home in ireland and watching all this on news here it is more serious than thai news say it is getting bad and can see everything from here

wolf5370 · April 13, 2009

About the bullets fired in the air coming down and killing...If I remember my A Level Physics, F=MA (Force = Mass * Acceleartion).
As acceleartion is gravity, that's about 10m/s/s. What's the mass of a spent bullet (remember its only the lead bit at the end - at worse stell jacketed) - 8g perhaps (that's 9mm at about 100-150 grains). So the maxmum force would be something like 0.8 Newtons.

If it hits point down (which is unlikely as it would be spinning and tumbling) the diameter is 9mm, so the area is about 64mm2.

This all works out to a little under 0.1777875 PSI - it takes at least 1 PSI to break skin, so its doubtful it could realy cause any damage at all.

Feel free to correct my physics - its been a while (like 20 years ).

On another note, could Thaksin be prosecuted (in his absense I guess) for treason now (Webster's definition)?

Actually your physics is incomplete, sorry. The relevant factors would be:

1) The pressure of the bullet (force per unit area). a relatively small force exerted over a small area can do considerable damage.

2) The impulse (change of momentum). When fast-moving objects are brought to rest in a very short time this can also result in great damage.

3) The work (the average force through a distance) required to slow the bullet. The body is responsible for the work involved in decreasing the kinetic energy of the bullet. If this occurs over a short distance the forces can be quite large.

4) You may also remember that in absence of any air resistance a projectile will have the same speed striking the ground as it does when it leaves the muzzle of the gun. Actually it would strike the ground at a slightly higher speed due to the difference in heights of the muzzle and the ground. Of course air resistance cannot be neglected in the case of a bullet, but there it is.

Sorry, I don't understand. We are talking about a bullet fired up, not parallel to the ground. The only force acting on the bullet is gravity (the explosion that sent the bullet up has been nullified by this point otherwise it would not be returning). PSI is Pounds Per Square Inch, so (1) is covered, yes? - the area (64mm2 at minimum) with 80Newtons of force.

(2) skin is soft and elastic, so it would only deccelerate quickly if the force is low enough that the skin can resist it - if it was more forceful it would penetrate and thus not slow quickly. However the force would not be enough to break good skin, if it hit a collorbone or forehead perhaps it would compress the skin and cause a bruise. Surely, the damage would mostly be experienced by the bullet (like shooting a block of iron), so it is possible that the bullet could break a little and shrapnel could penetrate as the surface area is much smaller.

(3) this would only be the case for penetration, otherwise, the elasticity of the skin would push back against the bullet and maybe sent the bullet a few feet away.

(4)I don't believe this. When it leaves the nozzle it has an awful lot of energy provided by the explosive force chemicals inside the cartridge. Once it uses up all this energy (in heat and sound) as it goes up, its only gravity that is causing it to return. Its shape now causes it to interact with air currents (Brownian motion) rather than cut through like when it was fired. emeber this is a gun not a sling-shot.

Again I may be wrong, but I can't see it doing much damage (maybe take an eye out if unlucky).

robblok · April 13, 2009

robblok,
I think that there is something wrong with your mind or your standard.

Do you think that everybody has enough money to rent a room? Or you think that they can always sell/rent their body so that they can earn enough money to rent a room.

Nevertheless, I agree with your last sentence, yes, all of them are crooks.

I have been around Thais for a while now and they can live in real small rooms and don't need much. I also know (or at least i have been told) that uni students can get loans for school. I also know that some real good students can go to school for free.

I don't think there is something wrong with my mind i think that if someone really wants to go to BKK and study there are ways to do it. I have seen my wifes family and my wife sleep in real small rooms or sleep with family. They don't need a whole house for themselves.

Combine that with a student loan and there are possibilities. Is it ideal.. no do ppl who live in bkk advantages yes but to say its impossible is also incorrect.

Johpa · April 13, 2009

I personally beleve a democracy works only in a high educated country, like in Europe US or Australia, etc. In third world countries is better to be in dictatorship, because peaple aren't educated enought to understand politics and economics.

Would that be like the "highly educated" people in the west, the cream of the crop having taken up jobs in the financial sector over the past 20 years? Would that be like the democracy that allowed for 25 highly educated and extremely welathy hedge fund managers to pay off a certain Sen. Schumer from New York to insure that a certain glaring US tax loophole that affected only those 25 plus a few more was not closed? Or to keep it more regional and put it into some historical perspective, would that be like the "best and the brightest" back in the early 1960s who brought us the war in Vietnam?

So excuse me if I fail to see a connection between education and democracy. What I see amongst the former PPP supporters, the redshirts, are some poor people who were given a few crumbs in exchange for their votes, a prominent feature of democracy, who are now facing an opposing faction that advocates taking away their votes and their few crumbs. What I see in Thailand is a group of what you call "educated people" who don't understand politics and democracy as well as the uneducated poor do, and whose only understanding of economics is just like those highly educated folks in the west, limited to the economics of me-me-me.

So Stingray, step right up and don a yellow shirt and raise your right arm to Sondhi.

teddy_bare · April 13, 2009

About the bullets fired in the air coming down and killing...If I remember my A Level Physics, F=MA (Force = Mass * Acceleartion).
As acceleartion is gravity, that's about 10m/s/s. What's the mass of a spent bullet (remember its only the lead bit at the end - at worse stell jacketed) - 8g perhaps (that's 9mm at about 100-150 grains). So the maxmum force would be something like 0.8 Newtons.

If it hits point down (which is unlikely as it would be spinning and tumbling) the diameter is 9mm, so the area is about 64mm2.

This all works out to a little under 0.1777875 PSI - it takes at least 1 PSI to break skin, so its doubtful it could realy cause any damage at all.

Feel free to correct my physics - its been a while (like 20 years ).

On another note, could Thaksin be prosecuted (in his absense I guess) for treason now (Webster's definition)?

I won't correct your physics as you seem to enjoy it, if you have been at it for that long, but..........

Trust me, a stray bullet is just as deadly.