Lost Divers Off Pattaya

[AleG]

My girfriend called me last night, she heard the news that a diver got carried away by the current off the coast of Pattaya, the instructor of the diving company (Dive Evolution) went in to try to help and was also swept away too.

The instructor is an aquaintance of my GF and we are wondering if they have been found already or they are still looking for them; anyone has heard any news about this?

[CHdiver]

Two Divers are missing after a Dive in the Area of the Hardeep, Samae San. They are still not found.

[Basil B]

I am not a religious person but I have said a prayer for them to be found safe and well.

The currents can be very strong and unpredictable down there and divers could easily be out of sight of the boat in minutes if the boat was recovering other divers.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Basil B

[skippybangkok]

Two Divers are missing after a Dive in the Area of the Hardeep, Samae San. They are still not found.

On a bad day, some of the most extreme currents you will encounter. Hope they find them, little perplexed that they got lost by the boat.

[John 1]

The 2 missing divers were recovered by the Navy on Monday evening sorry to say they died.

[AleG]

The 2 missing divers were recovered by the Navy on Monday evening sorry to say they died.

Darn...

Thanks for the update.

I haven't been to the HardDeep wreck in particular, but I know currents can be strong in Pattaya. However I don't understand how they could have been lost like that. I'll try to find details of what happened and why.

[skippybangkok]

Maybe time to keep a Tally of Hardeep deaths. Brings it up to 4 that i know of

[Basil B]

The 2 missing divers were recovered by the Navy on Monday evening sorry to say they died.

Darn...

Thanks for the update.

I haven't been to the HardDeep wreck in particular, but I know currents can be strong in Pattaya. However I don't understand how they could have been lost like that. I'll try to find details of what happened and why.

Sorry the new was bad, my sincerest condolences to family, friends and colleagues.

Would like to know facts but please this is not the time for speculation.

[Absingjul]

You can follow news here /www.diveevolution.com/webboard_view.php?bid=156 (Thai)

[John 1]

When I posted they had been found it's what I had been told my my Thai staff now after asking again it's what they had heard. So sorry if it's wrong and it would be nice if found alive.

[bubblehead]

When I posted they had been found it's what I had been told my my Thai staff now after asking again it's what they had heard. So sorry if it's wrong and it would be nice if found alive.

Your a fool posting on here rumours you heard from a Thai

[John 1]

Well Bubblehead who said they were missing a Thai. I assume you have to listen to someone.

I just recieved a e-mail from someone involved who says I person found on seabed by team of divers and other still missing. Would you like me to forward the e-mail. This forum is about trying to help.

[Phil Conners]

Body of diving student found

Navy rescue team on Wednesday retrieved body of a 25-year-old diving student who was swept away by strong current off Samesarn island in Chon Buri's Sattahip district on Sunday.

However the team failed to find Wiwat Tiraronkornkul, 35, diving instructor, who was also washed away.

The team found body of Pote Sawangwongseri stuck in a channel which is 49 metres deep under the sea. His body was already retrieved.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/30102...g-student-found

[skippybangkok]

Sad.....

What course was it ? I know that many instructors take students for their advanced course ...( a diver with maybe 10 dives under their belt? ) ...... I believe that place should be off limits for newer divers.

That place can rip off your face mask, and you can barely hold the anchor line when the currents are at their peak. How any instructor can come to the aid of a student under such extreme circumstances i beyond me.

RIP.

[MeetJohnDoe]

I agree with others who have said the Hardeep should only be dived by experienced divers. Reports say the missing were a student and instructor...unless the student was doing a wreck-diving course, with at least 40-50 dives under their dive-belt, they had no business on this wreck. It's fairly deep, currents can be very strong, and visibility is often a meter or less.

Wishing a good re-birth for those lives lost.

[bubblehead]

Well Bubblehead who said they were missing a Thai. I assume you have to listen to someone.

I just recieved a e-mail from someone involved who says I person found on seabed by team of divers and other still missing. Would you like me to forward the e-mail. This forum is about trying to help.

If you want to help get your scuba gear on and get out there and start searching

[CHdiver]

I agree with others who have said the Hardeep should only be dived by experienced divers. Reports say the missing were a student and instructor...unless the student was doing a wreck-diving course, with at least 40-50 dives under their dive-belt, they had no business on this wreck. It's fairly deep, currents can be very strong, and visibility is often a meter or less.

Wishing a good re-birth for those lives lost.

I dive the hardeep often. Currents can be strong, however visibility is mostly at least 4 to 5 meters. If you look at the tide tables you can plan your dive according to the tables. But as soon as you reach the wreck you are protected from currents and its ok. As Instructor or Dive Leader you have to have a good eye on your fellow Divers then its safe. But its not a place for a novice diver or for dives without giving out the proper rules how to dive the place.

RIP and my condolences to the Family´s and Friends

[AleG]

I was under the impression that the divers where swept by the current while they where on the surface, not underwater...

I wouldn't want to speculate at this point over what may have happened, the facts are that there's a dead student and a missing (I think we must presume dead too at this point) instructor; and whatever the instructor may or may have not done in the situation he went after the student and never came back.

[raro]

Remember my first dive at the Hardeep...Advance course with some 10 dives under my belt. Coming back up you have to hold on to that rope at 5 m for your decompression time. It felt like a flag on a pole in a storm.

Had there also dives with extremely good visibility and even a night dive entering the wreck...but the currents can be extremely tricky and there are whirlpools around, i.e. vertical currents, that drag you down.

Agree with other posters, this is not beginner's territory and RIP for the fellow divers!

[JR Texas]

Remember my first dive at the Hardeep...Advance course with some 10 dives under my belt. Coming back up you have to hold on to that rope at 5 m for your decompression time. It felt like a flag on a pole in a storm.

Had there also dives with extremely good visibility and even a night dive entering the wreck...but the currents can be extremely tricky and there are whirlpools around, i.e. vertical currents, that drag you down.

Agree with other posters, this is not beginner's territory and RIP for the fellow divers!

Don't most divers wear a safety vest that can be inflated in an emergency?

I am not trying to blame anyone here.......tragic event.

I am really curious. Are dive masters allowing people to dive without a safety vest? Why?

Would a safety vest saved these two victims?

[H2oDunc]

JR divers wear a buoyancy control jacket that they can inflate or deflate. It can be inflated from the air in your tank or manually by an oral inflation valve. If they were on the surface something has gone terribly wrong. That said, the majority of accidents and fatalities in diving happen because the person does not make themselves positively buoyant at the surface. RIP the divers and thoughts to the families

[MeetJohnDoe]

Don't most divers wear a safety vest that can be inflated in an emergency?

I am really curious. Are dive masters allowing people to dive without a safety vest? Why?

Would a safety vest saved these two victims?

Yes, all divers wear many pieces of safety gear and train for various emergency contingencies, but tragedies can and do still occur.

[Basil B]

Not wanting to speculate I do hope there will be a full enquiry and report made public.

What I feel any enquiry should ask:

• Was the “student” actually undergoing diver training?
  
• If so what? O/W, A/O/W, Wreak Spec?
  
• Had the “student” fully inflated his BCD (buoyancy Compensation Device, a jacket to which the air tank is attached, that under water is used to achieve neutral buoyancy by adding or releasing air and on the surface can be fully inflated like a life jacket).
  
• Was the Instructor who jumped in after the student actually that students instructor and if so why was he on the boat before the student?
  
• When the instructor jumped in what kit did he have on?
  
• Did the instructor and/or student have a SMB? (surface Marker Buoy, a device that can be filled with air to inflate like a sausage, normally florescent orange or yellow in colour that makes divers easier to spot at a distance or rough seas).
  
• Had they ditched their weight belts?
  
• How long after loosing contact with the divers did the dive boat ask for assistance/report the lost divers?
  

Not pre-empting any enquiry I have these comments to make:

• I agree with previous posters the Harddeep is not suitable for inexperienced divers, I did do my “wreak spec” on the “Harddeep” but at the time it was the only accessible wreak in the area.
  
• I also feel that all divers should be encouraged to carry SMB’s on all dives, and should regularly practice deploying them, too often have I been told when packing one in my BCD that I do not need one.
  
• Mandatory training for O/W on the use and deployment including practical deployment of SMB,s.
  
• Mandatory requirement for all dive boats to have a working Marine VHF Transceiver (with GMDSS if used in Thailand) and to keep good “radio watch” while at sea.
  
• I also have concern regarding the pier used at Sami-San as being a hazard for getting on and off boat particularly at low tide.
  

Just for the record, my diving qualification:

PADI Master Scuba Diver with 293 logged dives, 47 on the Harddeep

P.S. I also think this topic should be moved to the "Diving" section.

[MeetJohnDoe]

Not wanting to speculate I do hope there will be a full enquiry and report made public.

Stop that...you're killing me...

[AleG]

Remember my first dive at the Hardeep...Advance course with some 10 dives under my belt. Coming back up you have to hold on to that rope at 5 m for your decompression time. It felt like a flag on a pole in a storm.

Had there also dives with extremely good visibility and even a night dive entering the wreck...but the currents can be extremely tricky and there are whirlpools around, i.e. vertical currents, that drag you down.

Agree with other posters, this is not beginner's territory and RIP for the fellow divers!

Don't most divers wear a safety vest that can be inflated in an emergency?

I am not trying to blame anyone here.......tragic event.

I am really curious. Are dive masters allowing people to dive without a safety vest? Why?

Would a safety vest saved these two victims?

As said, almost all divers (and for sure a student) wear BCDs, Buoyancy Control Device; is a kind of vest with inflatable bladders and bits and pieces to keep all the SCUBA gear and diver together.

I've seen people getting in trouble for misusing them or from equipment failure, like a student failing to inflate the BCD on the surface, taking his regulator off and start sinking again... a mild panic ensues and instead of inflating the BCD, or putting the regulator back in his mouth the instructor had to pull him up.

Once my GF had a leaky BCD inflator and almost does an uncontrolled ascent because of it, I had to pull her down and pull on the BCDs dump valve to release the air.

Anyway, the BCD can be inflated either from the tank or by mouth, so if you run out of air you are properly screwed in terms of inflating the BCD. However a diver should still have positive buoyancy by dropping the weighs, specially with an empty air tank.

I've also experienced strong horizontal currents, as Raro aptly described , feeling like a flag in the wind hanging on to the mooring line. But I've never encountered vertical currents strong enough to pull me down against my intentions to go up. I'd think that there must be a really big current to go against the buoyancy force of a fully inflated BCD, let alone after dropping the weightbelt.

But I don't know what happend here, as Basil B I'd like to have an answer to the same questions. As a general safety issue and for that particular dive site conditions.

I also agree that at this point it would be better to move the thread to the Dive forum, so if a moderator happens to see this please do your magic.

[ubonjoe]

There have been 2 reports requesting this topic be moved to the dive forum.

It has be decided this is the best forum for this topic considering that those most interested in this topic would be reading this forum.

[H2oDunc]

" As said, almost all divers (and for sure a student) wear BCDs, Buoyancy Control Device"

Aleg it is not almost all divers but actually ALL divers that wear a BCD. People have not dived without a BCD since the time of the early Cousteau days.

" so if you run out of air you are properly screwed in terms of inflating the BCD "

No you can inflate the BCD orally by blowing into the low pressure inflation hose or other such manual inflation hose depending on the type of BCD you are wearing.

" I'd think that there must be a really big current to go against the buoyancy force of a fully inflated BCD, let alone after dropping the weightbelt "

You should never inflate your BCD whilst attempting to surface, especially fully as this leads to an uncontrolled ascent which is very dangerous and can lead to serious injury or death.

There is and has been lots of speculation here. Nobody can say for sure whether the dead guy was an OW or AOW or whether they surfaced and was carried away or was swept away underwater. Lets wait and see what has actually happened ?

[dogleg]

I was told by staff at dive shop which provided search team members that the student was found on the sea bed, no facemask, 100bar of air left in tank (half full).

[dogleg]

btw, this was a party of Thai's from BKK hired a boat for themselves - nothing to do with local dive shops.

(it was the 'chicken' boat for those who know the captain)

[AleG]

Aleg it is not almost all divers but actually ALL divers that wear a BCD. People have not dived without a BCD since the time of the early Cousteau days.

Well, there's the free spirits out there to like to ride as bare as possible. And if Jacqueline Bisset could dive in nothing but a skimpy bikini and a transluscent top, by golly any decent diver should be able too!

No you can inflate the BCD orally by blowing into the low pressure inflation hose or other such manual inflation hose depending on the type of BCD you are wearing.

If you are out of air at depth, I don't know you, but I'd rather keep whatever air left in my lungs inside them.

You should never inflate your BCD whilst attempting to surface, especially fully as this leads to an uncontrolled ascent which is very dangerous and can lead to serious injury or death.

Again, your millage may vary, but between being dragged to unknown depths and the risk of suffering decompression sickness, I'll take my chances with the later. If you end up deeper than 50 meters there's a distinc risk of nitrogen narcosis and not being able to think straight enough to sort out a way to extricate yourself from a hairy situation.

In any case, the idea would be to inflate it enough to have enough buoyancy to overcome any downward current, and release air while going up to maintain a constant buoyancy volume in the BCD and a constant ascension speed.