Bobsyouruncle Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Hi all, I am not sure if this post belongs in the realestate section but here goes. About 5 years ago my Australian friend and I bought a Bangkok condo together. Everything has been good and we have seen good capital growth on the condo as well as a good constant rental returns. The problem now is that I need to sell but he does not. When we first bought this condo we had a gentlemans agreement that at anytime one of us would like to sell then the other must buy out the other 50% share within 3 months. Failing that the condo must be put on the market and sold at market price. This is where the problem lies. We have had 3 valuations that average out at about 10-12 million bht. 1 year ago we could have got more but as we all know the condo market is depressed at the moment. My partner is demanding 15 million! Basically he does not want to sell and he is in no financial position to buy my share. There is no way we will get this much in todays market but we have allready had 2 offers. We originally bought the condo for 7.5 million so with the rentals we have recieved over the years we will still make a good profit. My question is; can I force him to sell and except market value through a Thai court? It's a shame it has come to this but my position is I very much need to sell. Any information and/or advice will be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEENTHEREDONETHAT Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I assume you both have your names on the Chanote? If you do tell him to be reasonable or you will sell your 50% to whoever offers the best deal. He may end up with a partner he does not like, chances are it will be someone he does not want to share with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cognos Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 hey..Bob's my uncle too..but he passed on Have you read the book " how to make friends and influence people?" by Dale Carnegie its an old book, but a good one..you CANNOT make anyone do anything(except by force) unless they want to do it. read the book if you have time..you will find strategies in there to get you what you want...him to sell..he will move if you give him what he wants,and you get what you want too..think of it from HIS point of view..kill him with kindness.. You could sign an agreement with a lawyer that he pay you a certain lump sum and then monthly payments..maybe this is no good and you need the money asap...you will get ideas from this book.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cognos Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 also..when you communicate with him..think in terms of..say his name is Ted...Ted, what do you need? rather than..this is what I need!! You can work this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detox Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I think a main point you missed out is how the property was purchased. Was it in a company name? Was it in Thai Spouse names? was it in your own names via a 30 year lease? It sounds like a relationship breaker, but it need not be. Answer the question above and then lets have another look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotime Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Tell him you'll take 5 million, and he can keep the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capco1 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 he already said it was a condo!!...As for the OP.....when it comes to business and money a written contract holds a lot more weight than a handshake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4UCorsair Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Good luck, but this doesn't sound good to me. I have some experience in Indonesia owning property with a local, watertight contracts, mortgages, and I was still taken to the cleaners. I know it isn't a local you're dealing with, but you are dealing with laws in a foreign country, and from my experience in Indonesia, their courts like nothing more than seeing a couple of foreigners thrashing it out. I guess there is a way out for you, but I don't know what it is right now. Once again, good luck. he already said it was a condo!!...As for the OP.....when it comes to business and money a written contract holds a lot more weight than a handshake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Pay the current tenant to move out, and move in yourself. He can't kick you out of your own condo, and will not be able to find a new tenant with you living there, so no more rental income. This would force his hand... Of course this assumes that you are actually living in Bangkok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaimate Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Only goes to show my Dad was right when i was young he told me "Trust no one" and"buy as much land as you can,they arnt making it any more" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotime Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) Only goes to show my Dad was right when i was young he told me "Trust no one" and"buy as much land as you can,they arnt making it any more" Actually that was said by some other great American of the North. "Will" something. Tell him you'll take 4.5. What's it's a condo got to do with anything? Edited June 24, 2009 by Shotime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonrakers Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 When we first bought this condo we had a gentlemans agreement that at anytime one of us would like to sell then the other must buy out the other 50% share within 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobsyouruncle Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Pay the current tenant to move out, and move in yourself. He can't kick you out of your own condo, and will not be able to find a new tenant with you living there, so no more rental income. This would force his hand...Of course this assumes that you are actually living in Bangkok. Thank you all for the replies. I have thought about this option but unfortunately I live in Australia It goes to show you can THINK you know someone well enough to do business with but at the end of the day, money changes everything. Both our names are registered on the chanote. It looks like I am stuck with the condo untill the market catches up with his unrealistic valuation. Anymore ideas out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capco1 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I'll rent it for 10k baht per month! that should piss him enough to encourage a sell! pm if interested! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Osborne Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Only goes to show my Dad was right when i was young he told me "Trust no one" and"buy as much land as you can,they arnt making it any more" Obviously he has never been to Dubai then..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Pay the current tenant to move out, and move in yourself. He can't kick you out of your own condo, and will not be able to find a new tenant with you living there, so no more rental income. This would force his hand...Of course this assumes that you are actually living in Bangkok. Thank you all for the replies. I have thought about this option but unfortunately I live in Australia It goes to show you can THINK you know someone well enough to do business with but at the end of the day, money changes everything. Both our names are registered on the chanote. It looks like I am stuck with the condo untill the market catches up with his unrealistic valuation. Anymore ideas out there? Who handles the tenants? An agency? Couldn't you just call them i say you want to start charge some ridiculously low rent. (ie 100 THB per month). I'm sure the current tenant would be willing to sign a new lease paying 100 per month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundevil Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Let him know that you are going to sell your half (possibly to someone who wants to live there). Once you get an offer you would accept, give him the option to match the price and buy you out. If he doesn't sell it to the highest bidder. If you need the money now and you have been getting decent rental returns, certainly you'd consider anything that got you slightly better than your buy price. If you are in a pinch and the condo is attractive, you can always PM me and we can talk further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcity Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 My understanding in a partenership is You offer him to sell your share to him for 6 million He refuses You then offer him to buy his share for 6 million He refuses You go to court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobsyouruncle Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 My understanding in a partenership isYou offer him to sell your share to him for 6 million He refuses You then offer him to buy his share for 6 million He refuses You go to court Yes this is my understanding too. If I was to test this in an Australian court I am sure the ruling would be to sell at market price. But the point is I would need to front a Thai court and I am trying to gauge what the outcome of this type of civil action would be. Does someone know of a good lawyer that may be able to help me with this issue? Another question, if he was to sudenly die would I automatically inherit his 50% Just kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) May not be exactly fair, but if he is only willing to sell at 15 mil, but you need to sell now then... His portion of 15 mil would be 7.5 mil If sold at 12 mil and you take away his 7.5 mil, you would be left with 4.5 mil If you bough at 7.5 mil then your portion was 3.75 mil This means that if you "sold" at 4.5 mil you would realize a profit of 750,000 plus the rent you have received. It may seem remarkably unfair, but if you would be willing to sell "your half" to him at 4.5 mil, then its really the same thing (ish). Is this acceptable to you? Is this better than taking him to court and trying to get what is fair? Only you can answer this question... Edited June 24, 2009 by CWMcMurray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaimate Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Only goes to show my Dad was right when i was young he told me "Trust no one" and"buy as much land as you can,they arnt making it any more" Obviously he has never been to Dubai then..... why ,are people more trustworthy in Dubai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaicbr Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I like CWMcMurry's way easy and cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdeyedmt Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Hi all,I am not sure if this post belongs in the realestate section but here goes. About 5 years ago my Australian friend and I bought a Bangkok condo together. Everything has been good and we have seen good capital growth on the condo as well as a good constant rental returns. The problem now is that I need to sell but he does not. When we first bought this condo we had a gentlemans agreement that at anytime one of us would like to sell then the other must buy out the other 50% share within 3 months. Failing that the condo must be put on the market and sold at market price. This is where the problem lies. We have had 3 valuations that average out at about 10-12 million bht. 1 year ago we could have got more but as we all know the condo market is depressed at the moment. My partner is demanding 15 million! Basically he does not want to sell and he is in no financial position to buy my share. There is no way we will get this much in todays market but we have allready had 2 offers. We originally bought the condo for 7.5 million so with the rentals we have recieved over the years we will still make a good profit. My question is; can I force him to sell and except market value through a Thai court? It's a shame it has come to this but my position is I very much need to sell. Any information and/or advice will be greatly appreciated. how much do you need the money? would you accept 2.5 for your share? pm if yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Osborne Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Only goes to show my Dad was right when i was young he told me "Trust no one" and"buy as much land as you can,they arnt making it any more" Obviously he has never been to Dubai then..... why ,are people more trustworthy in Dubai? No, except they have built a load of man-made islands and the real estate market has gone tits up in a nightmare scenario... have a friend who bought a couple properties there and any horror stories in Thailand wouldn't touch it. Had another friend visit it last month and the place was deserted.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 May not be exactly fair, but if he is only willing to sell at 15 mil, but you need to sell now then...His portion of 15 mil would be 7.5 mil If sold at 12 mil and you take away his 7.5 mil, you would be left with 4.5 mil If you bough at 7.5 mil then your portion was 3.75 mil This means that if you "sold" at 4.5 mil you would realize a profit of 750,000 plus the rent you have received. It may seem remarkably unfair, but if you would be willing to sell "your half" to him at 4.5 mil, then its really the same thing (ish). Is this acceptable to you? Is this better than taking him to court and trying to get what is fair? Only you can answer this question... Very good reply. Actually it's very easy to see both sides of this story. Yes you partner is out of order for not standing by a gentleman's agreement but at the end of the day it sounds like he isn't that flushed and the thought of selling up whilst the market is depressed must be difficult for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4UCorsair Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I guess another consideration would be the time for it to come up in court; an action like this could take well over a year to rate a mention in an Australian court, and that's only a mention. The actual case could be another year out. The market could have improved a lot by then, and he'd be willing to sell...maybe Your partner sounds like an unco-operative jerk to me, and is possibly trying to wear you down so that you'll walk away with almost nothing. Life is a bed of roses...just watch out for the pricks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerbalm Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Do you know his reason for actually not wanting to sell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobsyouruncle Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Do you know his reason for actually not wanting to sell? The reason he gives me for not wanting to sell is that he thinks it is not a good time to sell and that if we wait another year or two we will get closer to 15 mil and not 10 that we could get now. He is right of course but the fact is I need to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Advertise your share at the price you want and sell to a Thai investor that will have no interest in selling it on in the near future, that way you get your money and your (ex) partner will be shafted when he wants to sell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Burr Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) No Thai is ever going to spend cash to get a half share in a condo that he can't sell at a time of his choice.. Edited June 25, 2009 by Sir Burr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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