george Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 World's largest expat survey reveals crunch hits expats hard US, Thailand and South Africa are most affected expat locations BANGKOK: -- The US, Thailand and South Africa are most affected expat locations. Almost half of expats in UK are considering returning home. Emerging markets rank above established centres for expat finances, while UK is the worst for saving behind Spain and France. Despite economic crisis, expats are wealthier and save more than in country of origin. HSBC Bank International today revealed that the current economic crisis has had a significant impact on expats' financial situation, according to the world's largest survey of expats, Expat Explorer. The first of three instalments of this year's survey, Expat Economics, showed that expats have reduced spending across the board, with the UK and the US identified as having some of the highest numbers of expats considering a move home. Expat Explorer, now in its second year, surveyed over 3,100 expats from more than 50 countries and is the largest survey of its kind, with 46% more respondents than last year. Expat Economics is the first of three reports on the results and is a new addition to this year's survey which looks at an expats' economic quality of life. This is determined by four main economic factors: -Annual income in excess of US$200,000. - A monthly disposable income in excess of US$3,000. - An increase in saving while living/working abroad (in their current country of residence). - Having at least two luxury items in the country they live in. Paul Say, Head of Marketing and Communications for HSBC Bank International, said that this year's survey revealed interesting insights into a dynamic segment of the world's population, and also stands as a key indicator into how expats had been affected by global economic events. "Last year's survey gave us some really valuable insights into such a fascinating group of people and we are pleased to see even more expats participating in this year's survey" said Mr Say. "As the world continues to undergo a significant economic shift, we are seeing some interesting patterns amongst the expat population, particularly in the changes to their spending habits. Despite expats in the UK and US considering a move home we also found that the majority of expats are staying put despite growing employment uncertainty across many regions." Overall, the US, Thailand and South Africa have been most affected by the credit crunch, reducing their spending on essential and luxury items, general household maintenance and the money allocated to savings and investments. The largest reduction in essential day-to-day items was seen in Spain, where almost two-thirds (81%) of expats have cut back. Almost four-fifths of expats in the US (79%) and three quarters in the UK (75%) have also scaled down their spending on essential day-to-day items. Not surprisingly, almost half (44% - the highest recorded figure in the survey) of expats in the UK and close to a quarter (23%) of expats in the US are considering returning home in light of the current financial crisis. This provides a stark contrast when compared to the average of only 15% of expats overall who are considering the same move. 26 countries now feature in the ranking table (compared with 12 last year), with Russia (1st place) scoring highly as a result of the number of expats saving more, high annual salaries and the amount of disposable income available. Qatar (2nd place) and Saudi Arabia (3rd place) also scored highly in the areas of increased savings and disposable income, however had their scores affected by lower annual salaries. Interestingly, two-thirds of expats in Qatar (63%) said that their attitude to spending had not changed as a result of the economic crisis. Geographically, Switzerland and the UK ranked 1st and 2nd respectively for Europe, with Qatar and Saudi Arabia leading the charge in the Middle East, Russia and Hong Kong top for the Asia-Pacific region and Mexico and the United States highest in the Americas. Many expatriates have taken advantage of their current location to increase the amount of money allocated to savings. Expats in the Middle East are strong savers, with the UAE ranking fifth (after Saudi Arabia, Russia, Qatar and India) as a country where expats are increasing their savings. The UAE and India were also top countries to save in the 2008 Expat Explorer report. Expats in the UK were the worst savers/investors globally, with over a quarter of expats living in the UK (27% - the highest recorded in the survey) saying that they had reduced their savings and investments when compared to their home country. Savings accounts are the most popular way to save for expats across virtually all markets, with the exceptions of Mexico, Malaysia, Japan and South Africa. Asia is home to the highest paid expats in the world, with one in four expats (25%) earning more than US$200,000 per year. Individually, the survey identified Russia, Japan and Qatar as home to the wealthiest expats, defined as an annual income in excess of US$200,000 and a monthly disposable income in excess of US$3,000. Over one-third (43%) of expats surveyed in Russia, 40% in Japan and 22% in Qatar answered that their annual income was over this US$200,000 mark. Belgium and Australia are home to the least wealthy expats, with almost two-thirds (61%) of expats in Belgium and 63% of expats in Australia stating that their annual salary was US$100,000 or less. This compares to an average figure of 35% across all expats surveyed. Almost three-quarters (74%) of expats surveyed said that they have more disposable income than they did living in their country of origin, except those living in France (47%) and the UK (47%). Almost all expats in Qatar (94%), Russia (97%) and Saudi Arabia (98%) have more disposable income than they did living in their home country. More expats in these countries also have more than US$4,000 (70%, 59%, 52% respectively) of disposable income each month compared to the survey average of 36%. Food and accommodation has seen the largest increase in spending for expats, a continuing theme from the 2008 Expat Explorer report. Expats in the UK spend more of their income on accommodation than in anywhere else in the world, with almost two-thirds (86%) ranking it as their greatest expenditure, a continuing trend from the 2008 report. "As with our 2008 survey, we are generally seeing that although expats are spending more in their new countries of residence, they are also saving more," said Mr. Say. "There is no doubt that we have seen some interesting trends in terms of how expats are reacting to the credit crunch, but what is also interesting to see is that they remain to be a wealthy group of individuals. Over half of the expats surveyed are actually earning US$100,000 and over - no mean feat particularly in the current climate." The next instalment in the Expat Explorer series, Expat Existence, will be released in August this year and will focus around expats' quality of life. -- travelmole.com 2009-06-26 Related link: The results of Thaivisa Member Survey 2009: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Results-Thai...ey-t276064.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingtodd Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 hONESTLY??? The worse it gets here, the more money I make... I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys. I am going to make a fortune... I love where we are, and I love Thailand... Kit meshu-hopn na-nake todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravingbangkok Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 hONESTLY???The worse it gets here, the more money I make... I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys. I am going to make a fortune... I love where we are, and I love Thailand... Kit meshu-hopn na-nake todd I saw some guys like you at the airport last November in rayong, I always wondered who the security guys were and what they were doing in Thailand, were they specially flown in ? So there are farang professional security guards in Thailand ? Do you all work for a company ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungy007 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 hONESTLY???The worse it gets here, the more money I make... I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys. I am going to make a fortune... I love where we are, and I love Thailand... Kit meshu-hopn na-nake todd I saw some guys like you at the airport last November in rayong, I always wondered who the security guys were and what they were doing in Thailand, were they specially flown in ? So there are farang professional security guards in Thailand ? Do you all work for a company ? Nahhh! Out here in Thailand and is this game you work for a colour I would guess 'pink' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdanielsesq Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Doncha just love 'studies'?! Where have they been for the past 12/18 months?! Now HSBC throws it lot in with the latest & greatest. Little wonder the banks & accountants caused the big wipeout. They aint that kleber - how did they say they were gonna fix it - did I miss that part?! BR>Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprq Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 "Are you as expat affected by the crunch?" What about "Are you as a person affected by the crunch?"? What the hel_l does being an expat or not matter in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbhh Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) I'm doing quite a lot of hosting and domain registrations... been a bit low in new registrations, but hardly any drop outs. Business is ok I guess, but will definitely not hit the numbers I calculated for this year. The other part of the company is doing not so well... I'm just happy it is carrying it's own weight and I wont have to fire the staff it took me years to get together. p.s. This is a news about an expat survey, so it makes sense that TV is asking expats in their own survey attached to this news... Edited June 26, 2009 by jbhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josefbl Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 hONESTLY???The worse it gets here, the more money I make... I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys. I am going to make a fortune... I love where we are, and I love Thailand... Kit meshu-hopn na-nake todd Hallo Tod , ex Thai naval guys !!!!! I am ex Royal Dutch Navy ,could you bring me in contact with these guys ????Not for a job but just " old shipmates " you know. Thanks , josef Thanks , Josef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGreaves Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 We're doing good also. We sell underpants and sales havn't slipped. still believe that 60% of guys here change there's everyday and replace them at least every 9 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiawatcher Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Many of the larger companies like Diethelm with expats have laid off, others have returned home by their own free will. Others like me who are self employed in Thailand have been hit hard. The yellow shirts destroyed our business completely in 11 days and the red shirts added the nails in the coffin. As business has now just started to turn slightly - the news of red short demonstrations again on 27th June is simply frickin stupid. Expats are happy to be here as long as they earn... and we employ Thai's. And we provide services Thai's to date, have been unable to supply, as well as penetrate markets unavailable to Thai's. Of all the people I know here in similar fields, all have suffered, Thais and expats, due to the stupidity of the politics and that means about 50% of the expats have already left with more planning the same thing. If The Govt stands by and allows the world to see protests, security being ignored, beheadings n the South, expats in general will have to leave as no point bringing their expertise and knowledge to a country that ignores the importance of knowledge transfer and seeking security of tenure. They may as well sit back home and retire to a social security system as there is no longer an incentive to remain here! HSBC may have done a 'survey' but I bet most of the information has not taken into account loss of deposits and funds transfers out. No deposits, no leveraged funds against deposits so the banks will start losing money too. Put a value on that and HSBC should be the one liaising with the Thai Govt to improve the situation. Tourism may be the majority and their target but with an image as tarnished as it now is, perhaps they should address the brain drain and business insolvency. I have fired all my Thai staff in the last month so that puts hardships on Thai's let alone Expats. I know another in the same business who put off 25 to save 800,000 a month in wages. We feel sorry for them all but survival is survival. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meelousee Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Well hey just think for a moment if I or YOU had: -Annual income in excess of US$200,000. - A monthly disposable income in excess of US$3,000. - An increase in saving while living/working abroad (in their current country of residence). - Having at least two luxury items in the country they live in. You would stay where ever the h_ell you wanted. Me I would move to Cuba.. No joking No matter income disposable or not, or 200k annual. There is not 1 single expat that has not been touched. Reasoning COL Cost of living Every single country has its "problems" with the over all world economy in effect it does not matter if you live in a 9 Star hotel in Dubai or a flop house in Kaosan road. I have a very well off friend, former CEO of Alcatel, he told me that he was selling his Porsche race cars to cover his taxes in Switzerland. Humm wow. Does anybody get it? This so called economic slowdown is no slowdown it is a depression and this time is so wide spread that not one soul on this planet is not touched in some way no matter if it be no straw in bottled water on Kaosan or Caviar on the buffet at a 9 star hotel. This is no scare tactic this is reality IN YOUR FACE! I can go on and ramp and rave but too little use. 1000's of examples like rice cost fuel cost condom cost and so on. Just remember those of us who have no kitty are essentially broke on the world market No matter disposable income or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I suspect the expats being surveyed were earning big Western style, full package salaries with big MNC's, well over 300,000 baht per month. Pardon me, pass the caviar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSnake Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 No SH#T hit most of us where it really HURT in the ols POCKETBOOK/saving account/retirement funds or whatever you wish to call your. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycjoe Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Feel the love I think most expats here in thailand are here for the weather and the cost of living. Getting a massage for $5. I grow my toenails 3 inches and wait til I get to thailand to cut them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancelot Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) Expats in the UK were the worst savers/investors globally, with over a quarter of expats living in the UK (27% - the highest recorded in the survey) saying that they had reduced their savings and investments when compared to their home country.Belgium and Australia are home to the least wealthy expats, with almost two-thirds (61%) of expats in Belgium and 63% of expats in Australia stating that their annual salary was US$100,000 or less. This compares to an average figure of 35% across all expats surveyed. I would have guessed that Americans were the worst savers. We never met a sale we didn't like, 555+ Also suprised that Belgians an Aussies are among the least wealthy... Edited June 26, 2009 by Lancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesWayne Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 hONESTLY??? The worse it gets here, the more money I make... I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys. I am going to make a fortune... I love where we are, and I love Thailand... Kit meshu-hopn na-nake todd [/quote Horray for Todd and screw the rest of the world. Jerks like this are what gives expats and Americans a bad name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibkk Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 belgium people... what do you want... 50-55% of their gross income goes directly to taxes !!!!! who earns 3.300.000 baht per year ??? djees full or rich people here on this forum, specially the owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrecker Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Doncha just love 'studies'?!Where have they been for the past 12/18 months?! Now HSBC throws it lot in with the latest & greatest. Little wonder the banks & accountants caused the big wipeout. They aint that kleber - how did they say they were gonna fix it - did I miss that part?! BR>Jack Hmm you must be a expat under 100k otherwise you would have realized that HSBC is one of those banks hardly affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personchester Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 hONESTLY???The worse it gets here, the more money I make... I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys. I am going to make a fortune... I love where we are, and I love Thailand... Kit meshu-hopn na-nake todd Well, that may be alright for those fellows that work here in Thailand, but what about the chaps that are here in retirement in particular the (Brits) in the first place they had to live with their frozen state pension, and now as a result of the current economical crisis they have seen the value of the British Pound fallen by some 30%, a double Whammy so to speak, as a result some expat (Brits) can't no longer afford to remain here, and have to return back to the UK, so that they can claim social benefits there in order to live somewhat decently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob6023 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Gosh,Todd, you sound like a real hero type. Good on you, make lots of dough "protecting" the big boys some where. i think its all a load of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skorchio Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I suspect the expats being surveyed were earning big Western style, full package salaries with big MNC's, well over 300,000 baht per month. Pardon me, pass the caviar. I was asked to contribute to the HSBC - I think they asked all salaried customers who are offshore customers. Most people working abroad under a different tax regime to that of their home country would elect to keep their money offshore. And yes I agree that the majority of people working abroad (for large companies) will be earning in excess of 300,000 THB per month, or certainly in or around that figure - except perhaps the "English teachers" in Thailand and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyholly1 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Why would anyone earning over $200,000/year only have $36,000 of disposable income? Maybe it is just the usual tendency of Thai journalism to get numbers completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 The Travelmole article is poorly written. Many posters appear to be confusing expats in with expats from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Expats are being stripped out of the management of many companies over here, and naturally they return home. Ironically, I completed this survey and remember there are many different versions of expat. Full deal-short secondment, full deal-long term, long term stayers with offshore payments etc etc. The survey was attached to the HSBC offshore banking website, so by definition it has some pretty high earners in it's customers. I know of at least 10 pretty senior people with families in Bangkok who have been repatriated, 6 with jobs back home and 4 basically fired and repatriated. This is the way it goes. You come overseas and take the benefits and the cash, but it is wise to remember where you come from and make sure the benefits allow you to create something to go back to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texpat Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 hONESTLY??? The worse it gets here, the more money I make... I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys. I am going to make a fortune... I love where we are, and I love Thailand... Kit meshu-hopn na-nake todd Horray for Todd and screw the rest of the world. Jerks like this are what gives expats and Americans a bad name. I missed the reference to Todd being American. Can you kindly point it out? Thanks a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torrenova Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 $3000 a month to spend is only Bt100,000 (approx) which is not that much and certainly not a luxurious living. Double that and you begin to have a nice lifestyle. $100k a year is not a lot of money really. Sure isn't after taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunholidaysun1 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Ok , There maybe a few Expats on huge pensions or they have sold their properties / businesses from home and moved here to live the high life. Good for them , Im sure they have earned the life they have now. However , realistically , there are possibly thousands of Expats here who dont have anywhere near the sums of money people think WE have. I am not complaining about what I dont have but I am happy to have JUST enough to get by on every month and that is living on the bread line. I chose that instead of having to put up with the daily grind and crap of the UK, in all better to be here . When you look at the amount of items for sale in many websites for Thailand. I dont think I have ever seen so many houses and condos for sale in the 5 years I have been here, with prices being slashed dramatically in the hope of finding a buyer for their houses etc and just to get something of their investment back before getting out of here. You name it , cars , bikes , boats , its obvious to most of us in our own comunities in Thailand that not only has the crunch financially hit most of us but the general feeling here is no longer what it was. Changing Thailand to the real days of 'Smiles' has long gone and I dont see too many Expats grinning from ear to ear as before. Most of my buddies stay home every day , dont go anywhere apart from each other houses etc now and again or the occassional meet at the local Expat bar .So with regard to the Thais and Thai Government who seem to be kicking most of us in the teeth , they will only have themselves to blame when so many will uproot and leave . Lets see what happens to the local economies over the next few months with countless businesses going bust , rental properties empty , and countless other ways that we spend our monnies here that will affect every Thai business . With OUR contribution not being spent in Thailand , regardless of the amount , we all spend without it - Lets see who smiles then when NO money is coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skorchio Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 hONESTLY??? The worse it gets here, the more money I make... I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys. I am going to make a fortune... I love where we are, and I love Thailand... Kit meshu-hopn na-nake todd Horray for Todd and screw the rest of the world. Jerks like this are what gives expats and Americans a bad name. I missed the reference to Todd being American. Can you kindly point it out? Thanks a bunch. Yes I was thinking the same thing myself. Just because he demonstrates an attitude consistent with that of an American does not necessarily mean Todd is an American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skorchio Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 So with regard to the Thais and Thai Government who seem to be kicking most of us in the teeth , they will only have themselves to blame when so many will uproot and leave .Lets see what happens to the local economies over the next few months with countless businesses going bust , rental properties empty , and countless other ways that we spend our monnies here that will affect every Thai business . With OUR contribution not being spent in Thailand , regardless of the amount , we all spend without it - Lets see who smiles then when NO money is coming in. When I was reading this, it seemed to me you are blaming Thais (people and Govt) for what is more or less accepted as a global economic meltdown (one which didn't originate in Thailand, or Asia for that matter). And further, you seem to be reveling in delight that when you leave, Thais will be getting what they deserve "som num naa style". Well, by your own admission, you live on the bread line in Thailand, so you are hardly the contribution that you may think you are to the local economy. And with that attitude, perhaps Thais would be happier to see the back of you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerone Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 World's largest expat survey reveals crunch hits expats hardUS, Thailand and South Africa are most affected expat locations... I was doing nothing before and I didn't change with crisis.... Hope to keep going this way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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