Psychiatric Patient Advice Need For Lady Friend

[Gobbledoc]

I have a lady friend form Laos living with who is going nuts. She is a compulsive liar, she is the exact definition and suicidal. She has attacked me several times with large kitchen knives, I mean real attempts on me, she is totally irrational, and is inflicting self harm to her self, drinking quantities of ‘Vim’ bathroom cleaner, trying to cut her self etc…..

I can not handle this anymore, but she clearly need medical help. My question is what is available for her? She is dangerously jealous, and that over powers her thinking. I don’t want her locked up in a hospital for Psychiatric patients, I care for her good health and help still, and defiantly don’t want her to top her self. She is in Bangkok.

Apart from Run, I would love some suggestions.

[Datsun240Z]

What is the reason she goes like this? I would certainly call police, if she starts with knives.

[dee123]

do what she says,....

Edited July 8, 2009 by dee123

[IanForbes]

It's been my experience that Thai pharmacists speak reasonably good English, whereas Thai doctors often do not. I would ask a pharmacist who to seek for help. They will know better than anyone on an internet forum.

[ukrules]

Kick her out. A psychiatric hospital will be the best place for her and she will probably be able to get some drugs to control whatever it is that's wrong.

There is a stigma against doing a stint in the nut house but it will probably work out for the best.

[saintofsilence]

Leave her with family and get out of the relationship It will never stop.

[sriracha john]

You are extremely limited in your options.

The only one that can make a true determination of her mental status is a qualified psychiatrist....and that's a psychiatrist, NOT a pharmacist, who are unqualified to determine if medication is appropriate in the first place.

Now then, if you want her to receive proper treatment, it will be upon you to pay for it at a private psychiatric hospital.

If you don't wish to pay for private care, what's available to her is the understaffed and overworked 1950's-mode of mental asylums.

That's the reality.

Best of luck to her and to you.

[sriracha john]

I forgot to mention a third option. Complete abandonment.

Kick her out.

[highlander76]

might not sound nice but throw her out door she has already attacked you with a knife

[isanb]

I can not handle this anymore

Apart from Run, I would love some suggestions.

so walk then

you have only one life

[idrankwhat]

You could try to PM Jungian see if he cooled off, but he seems kind of serious. Jungian was running a free clinic at the university hospital where he works.

[IanForbes]

The only one that can make a true determination of her mental status is a qualified psychiatrist....and that's a psychiatrist, NOT a pharmacist, who are unqualified to determine if medication is appropriate in the first place.

I wasn't recommending a pharmacist for treatment, but just as some place to go for advice. Many Thai doctors do not speak English well enough to understand the OP's problem.

[sriracha john]

You could try to PM Jungian see if he cooled off, but he seems kind of serious. Jungian was running a free clinic at the university hospital where he works.

Sheesh... after reading some of his posts, I'm not so sure.

Anyway, like I said... a "qualified psychiatrist" is what she needs to be evaluated.

[jpolten]

I have a lady friend form Laos living with who is going nuts. She is a compulsive liar, she is the exact definition and suicidal. She has attacked me several times with large kitchen knives, I mean real attempts on me, she is totally irrational, and is inflicting self harm to her self, drinking quantities of ‘Vim’ bathroom cleaner, trying to cut her self etc…..

I can not handle this anymore, but she clearly need medical help. My question is what is available for her? She is dangerously jealous, and that over powers her thinking. I don’t want her locked up in a hospital for Psychiatric patients, I care for her good health and help still, and defiantly don’t want her to top her self. She is in Bangkok.

Apart from Run, I would love some suggestions.

It's your call!....stay or leave!

Like someone said above state hospitals that deal with these things are out dated,if you go private you'll pay for it....and it could be a long process!

Go to some hospital any hospital and ask for advice,maybe some on can point you in the right direction!

But i think you better decide quickly before you both pay for it....you being dead......and her in prison!

[Bobsyouruncle]

You could try to PM Jungian see if he cooled off, but he seems kind of serious. Jungian was running a free clinic at the university hospital where he works.

Sheesh... after reading some of his posts, I'm not so sure.

Anyway, like I said... a "qualified psychiatrist" is what she needs to be evaluated.

Failing that, he could sell you a half price BMW.

At least that would cheer you up.

[idrankwhat]

You could try to PM Jungian see if he cooled off, but he seems kind of serious. Jungian was running a free clinic at the university hospital where he works.

Sheesh... after reading some of his posts, I'm not so sure.

Anyway, like I said... a "qualified psychiatrist" is what she needs to be evaluated.

He is a qualified psychiatrist and has helped many people on Thai Visa for free, even got one a free trip back to England. I read his posts too, and I know him but I think he was going off at the delusional members and quit frankly I can see why. I'm not pushing his services but I hate to see him pull out because of a few idiots that attack him in one breath and ask for help in the next, he is not cut out to be on a forum like this he has his own opinion that people are generally good and kind, I have mine that people are full of shit and only 45% of the posters on Thai Visa are even in Thailand!

[sriracha john]

You could try to PM Jungian see if he cooled off, but he seems kind of serious. Jungian was running a free clinic at the university hospital where he works.

Sheesh... after reading some of his posts, I'm not so sure.

Anyway, like I said... a "qualified psychiatrist" is what she needs to be evaluated.

He is a qualified psychiatrist and has helped many people on Thai Visa for free, even got one a free trip back to England. I read his posts too, and I know him but I think he was going off at the delusional members

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of his abilities to deal effectively with people that have mental problems... but alas, that's not the point as it doesn't sound like he's willing to help out any one any further.

btw, is he a psychologist or psychiatrist? Given his nick, I presumed he was not a psychiatrist.

Edited July 8, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

The only one that can make a true determination of her mental status is a qualified psychiatrist....and that's a psychiatrist, NOT a pharmacist, who are unqualified to determine if medication is appropriate in the first place.

I wasn't recommending a pharmacist for treatment, but just as some place to go for advice. Many Thai doctors do not speak English well enough to understand the OP's problem.

Fair enough. Go to the pharmacist to see if he/she knows of a good psychiatrist.

Edited July 8, 2009 by sriracha john

[simon43]

Having endured 4 years of hel_l with my mentally ill ex, I have to say that the best decision that ThaiVisa members gave me when I first raised the problem was:

RUN!!!

(even tho you said don't mention run....)

To elaborate, unless you have deep pockets, the chances of this woman receiving competent medical and psychiatric assessment and care are extremely limited. My experience of government hospitals/doctors was that if the patient was not willing to enter a mental institution, (and that often means if her family were unwilling to agree to this), then they would simply prescribe strong sedatives to render the person incapable of walking or causing any problems to the carer. So it turns them into a zombie, but at least they are unable to attack you!

There is a private psychiatric hospital in Bangkok, but the fees rapidly add up and I'm pretty sure that this woman will not have insurance to cover it, especially if she is Lao.

If you want to try to assist her out of the goodness of your heart, then you are putting your own health (mental and physical) at risk. Mentally, you will be under a great strain as you try to cope with her 'insanity'. Physical - well you mentioned the knifes! I had the same problem with my ex (knives and bottle throwing). The local police were totally uninterested when I reported her actions... Now I have to live 800 km away from her, in an unspecified location so that she cannot stalk me

Importantly, if you cannot get the support of her family (does she have any here in Thailand?), then no-one in authority is going to listen to you - unless you pay....

Good luck, because you will need it - a lot of it!

Simon

Edited July 9, 2009 by simon43

[Bobsyouruncle]

Having endured 4 years of hel_l with my mentally ill ex, I have to say that the best decision that ThaiVisa members gave me when I first raised the problem was:

RUN!!!

(even tho you said don't mention run....)

To elaborate, unless you have deep pockets, the chances of this woman receiving competent medical and psychiatric assessment and care are extremely limited. My experience of government hospitals/doctors was that if the patient was not willing to enter a mental institution, (and that often means if her family were unwilling to agree to this), then they would simply prescribe strong sedatives to render the person incapable of walking or causing any problems to the carer. So it turns them into a zombie, but at least they are unable to attack you!

There is a private psychiatric hospital in Bangkok, but the fees rapidly add up and I'm pretty sure that this woman will not have insurance to cover it, especially if she is Lao.

If you want to try to assist her out of the goodness of your heart, then you are putting your own health (mental and physical) at risk. Mentally, you will be under a great strain as you try to cope with her 'insanity'. Physical - well you mentioned the knifes! I had the same problem with my ex (knives and bottle throwing). The local police were totally uninterested when I reported her actions... Now I have to live 800 km away from her, in an unspecified location so that she cannot stalk me

Importantly, if you cannot get the support of her family (does she have any here in Thailand?), then no-one in authority is going to listen to you - unless you pay....

Good luck, because you will need it - a lot of it!

Simon

Wow!

I have just finished reading through your posts Simon.What a journey you have had!

It is all too common that Thai wives suddenly get mentally ill, usually it is after the farang husband has spent all his money!

A friend of mine is going through it at the moment, the problem is his wife has completely convinced him that she has mental problems. It is obvious she is just trying to push him away!

Good luck with your new life.

[simon43]

Good luck with your new life.

[\quote]

The new life is so 'new' and so 'good' that I even changed my avatar to a phoenix rising from the ashes

Simon

[Bobsyouruncle]

The new life is so 'new' and so 'good' that I even changed my avatar to a phoenix rising from the ashes

Simon

Nice one, very appropriate. Enjoy your new found freedom.

[najman]

I have a lady friend form Laos living with who is going nuts. She is a compulsive liar, she is the exact definition and suicidal. She has attacked me several times with large kitchen knives, I mean real attempts on me, she is totally irrational, and is inflicting self harm to her self, drinking quantities of 'Vim' bathroom cleaner, trying to cut her self etc…..

I can not handle this anymore, but she clearly need medical help. My question is what is available for her? She is dangerously jealous, and that over powers her thinking. I don't want her locked up in a hospital for Psychiatric patients, I care for her good health and help still, and defiantly don't want her to top her self. She is in Bangkok.

Apart from Run, I would love some suggestions.

Since Psychiatry openly admits they have no cures for their voted in "mental illnesses" and no scientific tests for their so called "chemical imbalances" I wouldn't put any human being in their "care".

The best place for someone like that is far out of the city in a calm and safe environment, perhaps with her family or close friends on a farm. After several month she will chill out by herself.

I would also stay away from her as she is obviously not a suitable long term partner. I understand you care for her and want to see that she is ok. Turning her into a drug induced zombie with a cocktail of Psychiatric drugs helps no one in the long run. Get her out of her current environment and into a calmer saner surroundings ASAP.

Anyone recommending Psychiatric treatment obviously has very little knowledge of their history, techniques and long term statistics.

[simon43]

The best place for someone like that is far out of the city in a calm and safe environment, perhaps with her family or close friends on a farm. After several month she will chill out by herself.

[\quote]

An admirable suggestion, but in practice it may not work, depending upon the patient. I took these actions several times with my ex, placing her back in her Issan village with family, (she ran away several times until they sedated her so she could not walk). I also took her to a remote town in north Thailand and stayed with her for several months. She would run away each day (because I did not sedate her), and the whole attempt finally failed after she was persuaded by a village friend to forge my signature on buying a 3 million baht condo. That cost me a lot of money to annul....

I think the type of treatment really depends upon the illness that they have (if indeed, they are ill), their ability to comprehend and accept that they have an illness, and whether they want to recover or not.

I have seen mentally ill Thais living in wats, and perhaps the tranquility/meditation etc in this type of environment can be helpful to them.

But if you want my own view on mental health care and understanding in Thailand - absolute diddly-squat understanding, by the vast majority of both lay persons and doctors. Lay persons associate mental illness with low IQ, the slow brained, and treat them as such. Competent doctors are few - unless you pay....

Simon

[mrtoad]

Since Psychiatry openly admits they have no cures for their voted in "mental illnesses" and no scientific tests for their so called "chemical imbalances" I wouldn't put any human being in their "care".

The best place for someone like that is far out of the city in a calm and safe environment, perhaps with her family or close friends on a farm. After several month she will chill out by herself.

I would also stay away from her as she is obviously not a suitable long term partner. I understand you care for her and want to see that she is ok. Turning her into a drug induced zombie with a cocktail of Psychiatric drugs helps no one in the long run. Get her out of her current environment and into a calmer saner surroundings ASAP.

Anyone recommending Psychiatric treatment obviously has very little knowledge of their history, techniques and long term statistics.

I think that you are looking at it rather simplisticaly. Certainly any Psychiatric worker would not advocate turning anyone into a drug induced zombie, as you put it. However, in acute phases of illness it is often required to use strong medication to cosh the acute phase, slowly lower the dose, until a maintenance dose is all that is required - all of this needs to be done with the right care and attention, along with proper therapy. Having worked in Psychiatry for a number of years, I can certainly attain that environmental factors are important, however if the person is acutely unwell, then some for of medication is certainly required. The frst thing that this person needs is to have a full assesment, for her safety and that of others. I very much doubt sticking her on a farm in the middle of nowhere is going to do here a great deal of benefit in the present situation.

[simon43]

MrToad makes very good comments. But if the person is unwilling to visit a psychiatrist for initial assessment, or if their family does not agree to this, or the person is too ill to comprehend the request/logic etc in visiting the doctor, then this can be a non-starter!

The only way for me to get a good assessment of my ex's mental state by competent doctors was to have her taken (physically and against her will) to the private hospital where this assessment was provided. There were 3 reasons why the hospital acted:

1 - I was her legal husband

2 - She had gone totally 'nuts' and was a danger to herself/others

3 - I was paying money

In the OP's case, I don't think 1 applies, and that can make a big difference. (Now that I am divorced, the hospitals are not keen to take my ex into the hospital against her will if I request this.)

2 seems to apply in the OP's case. 3 we do not know yet whether the OP is willing to pay for this expensive treatment, (expensive because you will almost certainly have to use a private hopsital).

Bottom line - it really is stacked against you here in LoS. If the person admits that they have a problem, and is willing to accept treatment, then you will have made some small progress. But if they will not admit it, or are too ill to comprehend, then what chance have you got??

Simon

[ThaiBasil]

Honestly admitting I haven't personllay been in the situation I still want to place my thoughts on here on how I would try to solve the problem.

I would try to take her back to her roots, as someone else said: take her to her friends n family (if she still has them) and take her to a familiair and safe place. I also would try to figure out what my exact place is in her "crazyness" (I mean what is she trying to say by attacking you with knives, it seems like a "get the hel_l away from me"). Is it better for her if I'd leave for a while, sending some money to the family to take care of her for a while? Hope it helps and good luck with it.

[mrtoad]

MrToad makes very good comments. But if the person is unwilling to visit a psychiatrist for initial assessment, or if their family does not agree to this, or the person is too ill to comprehend the request/logic etc in visiting the doctor, then this can be a non-starter!

The only way for me to get a good assessment of my ex's mental state by competent doctors was to have her taken (physically and against her will) to the private hospital where this assessment was provided. There were 3 reasons why the hospital acted:

1 - I was her legal husband

2 - She had gone totally 'nuts' and was a danger to herself/others

3 - I was paying money

In the OP's case, I don't think 1 applies, and that can make a big difference. (Now that I am divorced, the hospitals are not keen to take my ex into the hospital against her will if I request this.)

2 seems to apply in the OP's case. 3 we do not know yet whether the OP is willing to pay for this expensive treatment, (expensive because you will almost certainly have to use a private hopsital).

Bottom line - it really is stacked against you here in LoS. If the person admits that they have a problem, and is willing to accept treatment, then you will have made some small progress. But if they will not admit it, or are too ill to comprehend, then what chance have you got??

Simon

Simon I agree with what you are writing, especially as you have been in a similar position to what the OP is describing, here in Thailand.

There is clearly a root cause to why this behaviour is happening, and that needs to be found out through the history of the individual, such as : previous Psychiatric history, family history, alcohol or substance missuse. It's far to early to ascertain what is exactly happening, but clearly to me she needs to offered professional help.

As you say, actually getting her to agree to assesment may be a problem, as it is all to often the case - even in the UK for example where I worked as a CPN and CNS. Howvever, there in The UK there is legal framework available to ensure that it can happen, even without the requirement of a NOK. The other issue appears to be that the person is not Thai, but is actually from Laos. I would certainly suggest that the OP contacts the Laos embassy as well. All inall, it is not a nice situation, and all toO clearly highlights the lack of develpment in effective Mental Health Services in Thailand. I wish the OP luck, he is going to need it.

[Maizefarmer]

My personal opinion - time to pack up and move on - but, its an honourable position you have adopted in wanting to help - so your options come down to ... to not too many I am afraid: State or Private.

No shortage of Psychologists/Psychiatrists in Thailand - all the big private hospitals have regular clinics for both disciplines (and as this sounds like a medication case - a Psychiatrist it will be). problem is: it won't be cheap.

And theres the State option - but as a self-harmer, with a history of threatening others (with a weapon), it will take just one such incident, with police involvement, for her to risk been sectioned and sent off to Surat Thani (Thailands largest secure psychiatric hospital) - and once in the secure "system" I know from having tried to help a former Uni friend of the wifes' some years ago, it can be very very difficult to get out, in both senses of the world (i.e. out of the institution phsyicaly, and free from the conditions attached to any release) . Patient safegaurds & rights patients in Thailand are not what they are in the West.

[Mario2008]

Considering she is a Lao national, she runs the risk of being deported as a public danger.