Thaksin: Special Security Protection For Me In Malaysia

[TAWP]

To hel_l with the dictatorial juntas and its networks of english intelligences !!!

How many threads are you going to post the same post in, Mr 're-registering red-fan troll'?

(Note: Report-btn still doesn't work, so...here is my report.)

[monkfish]

Someone mention Propaganda?

Did anyone else notice that most or all members privileged enough to post in news clipping seem to be very bias in there opinion?

Why is that?

[hammered]

Sure one person one vote is a facet of democracy but isnt everyone equal before the law too? Why should Thaksin receive special treatement and not have his day in court the same as every other Thai person? Popularity or wealth should never interfere with this basic in a democratic country or democracy ceases to exist. There are other facets of democracy too.

There are laws designed to protect certain people and other laws are used by and to protect the rich and powerful in Thailand.

There is no equality here in the eyes of the law here and never will be.

How can you guarantee Thaksin a fair trial when he was ousted by a military coup, ostracised and had a propaganda war conducted against him for the last 3 years? Simply put, you cannot.

Saying he should face justice now to serve as an example is laughably hypocritical considering his opponents were unwilling and unable to remove him by the very legal and proper means they now wish to subject him to.

They set the precedent.

My discussion was not of the real but theoretical. In reality Thaksin is also not a democract and a memebr of the elite who togethyer witjh his elite allies fell out with the rest.

In reality there is no equality in the eyes of the law anywhere in the world and it could be argued that democracy is at least in crisis if not retreat in most countries. An elite enjoy privileges everywhere

In the Thaksin case there for the reasons you say cannot be a fair trial now. Nor could there have been a fair trial when he was in power as he had already shown he was willing to manipulate checks and balances and had conducted a 5 year propoganda war to raise his own image.

In short everyone manipulated bits of democratic process that didnt serve their interests.

[somluck]

Waow........ had 20 cops around him, and still fled the country...........

MALAYSIA BOLEH!

[samran]

Thaksin's visit to Malaysia shows yet again the region's other governments aren't concerned about him nor do they fully recognise the current Thai government's charges for extradition and arrest.

to me is is less that, than the old saying 'birds of a feather flock together'. Malaysia and Singapore were his templates. He just needed more time to make his opposition fearful of him.

[Insight]

Someone mention Propaganda?

Did anyone else notice that most or all members privileged enough to post in news clipping seem to be very bias in there opinion?

Why is that?

Dunno. Try asking Scott.

[geriatrickid]

"If there is an election we will have to come out in force like we did in Sakon Nakhon and Si Sa Ket, [where the by-elections were won by Pheu Thai Party], and change the direction of Thailand," he said.

"For three years Thaksin has been facing accusations, and he has not been able to defend himself because the state media has shut its door on him. So, our community radios nationwide should allow him to be heard," the host said.

According to the experts of TV, these byelections must have been rigged. Amazing what happens when people vote and the army stops meddling either directly or via proxies. I do not believe that Mr. Thaksin was able to obtain a fair trial as long as some members of the Thai army and it's bangkok elite masters and cronies interfered.

Another huge problem is that millions of people like him as PM..Mind boggling.

That's the downside of democracy. The poor and the workers sometimes upset their 'masters".

quotes-if they all loved him why does he need protection?

answers- any good dictator in waiting needs his rent-a-crowds.

I think it is because some people in the the military are alleged to have murdered people and then let someone else get blamed for it. I could be wrong if the experts of Tv are correct and these rogue uniforms never wacked folks on their own, even under Thaksin's government. The stories of how they would kill people and let Thaksin take the heat must be fiction made up by dirty commies.

[geriatrickid]

Someone mention Propaganda?

Did anyone else notice that most or all members privileged enough to post in news clipping seem to be very bias in there opinion?

Why is that?

yes. Maybe it serves as cheap therapy.

[hammered]

The Malaysia story is just a PR/Propoganda move. It keeps Thaksin in the news. A few analystsa are now finally noticing this. It doesnt matter what actually happened there. It just gets into all media sources that he was there and that he was "welcomed". We await Malaysian confirmation of the security detail btw. It would not be the first time Thaisn story differed from his hosts.

The story is that the story is reported not what happened. Without the local media spouting off all he would have would be the limited cioverage of DTV and his call ins which reach relatively few. Fiji, Malaysia, Dubai, Germany investement talk all just ways to stay in the limelight. Even if later the host comes out and says what he has said is BS or he is now banned it doesnt matter. It is just publicity and works far better than his idiotic revolution and I will lead it faux pas of Songkhran time.

[Ferwert]

Thaksin never was and never will be pro-democracy. To claim so is to expose ones ignorance. You mustn't have lived her under his rule or gained such favors that your didn't care who or what rights that got trampled on.

But I am sure that by the time this post is sent to the site via the [Add Reply]-button you are already on your todays 7th post of propaganda-writing in several different treads with no interest whatsoever to back anything up with facts but to paint the same picture again and again, hoping that repetition will make the lie become true.

So according to you I am exposing my ignorance Huh! I write knowledgably my friend with exactly that - historical fact. I am not propagandizing my fellowposter and friend. It is not me "parrotting" the English language media. Backing up with facts and evidence? - try me, lets get it on. where do we start? I will enjoy debating with you or anyone else. I caution you however, that my cause is the cause of one-person-one-vote electoral democracy, of which icon Thaksin has the best record here in Thailand.

See, you cannot even write a single reply without sad propaganda injected into it.

And could you stop with you formatting into italic? Unless you are posting drunk and need your own text to look straight, it just annoys people.

Sorry, no more italics.

[grandpops]

The Malaysia story is just a PR/Propoganda move. It keeps Thaksin in the news. A few analystsa are now finally noticing this. It doesnt matter what actually happened there. It just gets into all media sources that he was there and that he was "welcomed". We await Malaysian confirmation of the security detail btw. It would not be the first time Thaisn story differed from his hosts.

The story is that the story is reported not what happened. Without the local media spouting off all he would have would be the limited cioverage of DTV and his call ins which reach relatively few. Fiji, Malaysia, Dubai, Germany investement talk all just ways to stay in the limelight. Even if later the host comes out and says what he has said is BS or he is now banned it doesnt matter. It is just publicity and works far better than his idiotic revolution and I will lead it faux pas of Songkhran time.

The current Government is the one putting up the propaganda by claiming to have him almost back under wraps and out of the media. On a weely basis SRJ is gleefully telling us of Thakins latest brush with arrest. Perhaps you should co-ordinate your pathalogical hatreds before you come on here and contradict each other.

Fact is it is the Thai's who lost face as the Malaysians totally ignored their little junta man requests to arrest a legitimately elected PM.. And as for Interpol, they are probably besides them self with worry thinking about Thaksin stopping over in Europe and spending vast wedges of money. More worried even that civil unrest in a recession and fanatical suicide bombers, major organised crime rings etc. etc.

You Junta lovers really think Interpol are pulling out all the stops to please the aging army generals of a third world country?

Rest of Asia probably see writing on the wall for Democrats and are looking to make working relationships with Thailand once (I belive it will be one day) democracy is restored.

Edited July 14, 2009 by grandpops

[hammered]

The Malaysia story is just a PR/Propoganda move. It keeps Thaksin in the news. A few analystsa are now finally noticing this. It doesnt matter what actually happened there. It just gets into all media sources that he was there and that he was "welcomed". We await Malaysian confirmation of the security detail btw. It would not be the first time Thaisn story differed from his hosts.

The story is that the story is reported not what happened. Without the local media spouting off all he would have would be the limited cioverage of DTV and his call ins which reach relatively few. Fiji, Malaysia, Dubai, Germany investement talk all just ways to stay in the limelight. Even if later the host comes out and says what he has said is BS or he is now banned it doesnt matter. It is just publicity and works far better than his idiotic revolution and I will lead it faux pas of Songkhran time.

The current Government is the one putting up the propaganda by claiming to have him almost back under wraps and out of the media. On a weely basis SRJ is gleefully telling us of Thakins latest brush with arrest. Perhaps you should co-ordinate your pathalogical hatreds before you come on here and contradict each other.

Fact is it is the Thai's who lost face as the Malaysians totally ignored their little junta man requests to arrest a legitimately elected PM.. And as for Interpol, they are probably besides them self with worry thinking about Thaksin stopping over in Europe and spending vast wedges of money. More worried even that civil unrest in a recession and fanatical suicide bombers, major organised crime rings etc. etc.

You Junta lovers really think Interpol are pulling out all the stops to please the aging army generals of a third world country?

Rest of Asia probably see writing on the wall for Democrats and are looking to make working relationships with Thailand once (I belive it will be one day) democracy is restored.

And what does that rant against me have to do with my analysis? I neither have pathological hatreds or like juntas by the way. I find it best to try and remain level headed, analytical and not get overly passionate about power struggles among rich and powerful groups that I cannot affect and choose not to take sides but rather dislike both as I tend not to be a fan of those who decide to take a career in politcs and certainly dont intend to be fooled into thinking any of them really cares abut those lesser than themselves

Peace

[Samuian]

Someone mention Propaganda?

Did anyone else notice that most or all members privileged enough to post in news clipping seem to be very bias in there opinion?

Why is that?

"biased" on what ecxactly?

that Mr.Thaksin has ripped off this country as no one ever before,

that he has taken the people giving him their votes

for a "ride", that he has taken corruption to never known hights,

that he has threatened and sued everyone in his path, silenced media,

simply bought critical TV_Stations and then sacked the critical voices,

that he shuffled Army, Politicians, anyone useful or not useful around as

long as it suited HIS very interests, that he manipulated the judiciary - "cookie-box-gate"?

That he "stepped" down, but not really...that he "retired", from politics,

that he recently actually called for an uprising '"worse and greater then 1973"?

That he has a officially engaged "Denier" called Noppadon who claims these

are all "rumours" by the Opponents of this marvelous savior of the Thai-Nation

Who is out of gratefulness going to build a House in Udon IF they vote his Party back in again ?

That he as a criminal fugitive is running an open election campaign from abroad and is

missing no chance of ever further dividing the nation and its people, into who favor him and his cronies

and a corrupt government?

That he targets an "Elite" he himself and his Clan have been part of and since his PM-Hood risen to it's very top?

Did you mean this by being "biased"?

[hammered]

Someone mention Propaganda?

Did anyone else notice that most or all members privileged enough to post in news clipping seem to be very bias in there opinion?

Why is that?

Everyone without exception has their own biases in life.

[hansnl]

wonder if the 'ambassador' will get summoned to explain this one.

way to lose face for your host.

The only people losing face about Thaksin are in Thailand. The Anti-Democrats of Thailand cannot have this icon of democratic electoral legitimacy running about continually reminding the world of their illegitimacy. If I was hoisted into power through non-electoral means, and need militia type protection any time I venture outside Bangkok, I wouldn't want someone running around reminding people of when it was otherwise - legitimate and able to travel about in his own country without protection.

*Yawn*

Thaksin never was and never will be pro-democracy. To claim so is to expose ones ignorance. You mustn't have lived her under his rule or gained such favors that your didn't care who or what rights that got trampled on.

But I am sure that by the time this post is sent to the site via the [Add Reply]-button you are already on your todays 7th post of propaganda-writing in several different treads with no interest whatsoever to back anything up with facts but to paint the same picture again and again, hoping that repetition will make the lie become true.

So according to you I am exposing my ignorance Huh! I write knowledgably my friend with exactly that - historical fact. I am not propagandizing my fellowposter and friend. It is not me "parrotting" the English language media. Backing up with facts and evidence? - try me, lets get it on. where do we start? I will enjoy debating with you or anyone else. I caution you however, that my cause is the cause of one-person-one-vote electoral democracy, of which icon Thaksin has the best record here in Thailand.

No party in Thailand, by whatever means, had a 51% majority in the last elections.

Which means, that any government formed will be one based on more-party get together.

All governments bar the first after the coup were formed in this way.

So, indeed, all governments formed since then were legal.

Mr Thaksin may be an icon for a lot of people, but he is also an negative example for a lot of other people.

The fact that Mr Abhisit has to travel around surrounded by security, is really a shame, and not worthy of a democratic country

But, let us face it and ask the one million dollar question:

Who will really trust politicians?

[Ferwert]

So according to you I am exposing my ignorance Huh! I write knowledgably my friend with exactly that - historical fact. I am not propagandizing my fellowposter and friend. It is not me "parrotting" the English language media. Backing up with facts and evidence? - try me, lets get it on. where do we start? I will enjoy debating with you or anyone else. I caution you however, that my cause is the cause of one-person-one-vote electoral democracy, of which icon Thaksin has the best record here in Thailand.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the notion of one person, one vote. It is the basis, but not the sole pre-requisite, of a healthy democracy. To believe in democracy you believe in the worth of a persons vote, you respect the voice of your opposition, you respect the need - and indeed fight for - independent balanced instututions such as courts, police, army etc. You don't close down opposition newspapers and threaten your opposition with liable suits at every turn.

So no, my question to you is simply this: Is Thaksin a democrat in the true sense of the word?

I could refute many of the Thaksin charges in this posting, but that is not of primary concern at the moment. I keep referencing the orchestrated Thaksin demonization campaign and believe it started prior to the coup. Many of his entanglements with the domestic media was Thaksin's earliest push-back to the attacks on him, which presaged the coup.

I am glad you agree with the one-person-one-vote electoral process, but contrary to what you say, many disagree with that. This process results in "rule of the majority", and many powerful sectors of Thai society are not in that majority. So they need to eliminate it. I believe the current initiatives dealing with so-called "Political Reform" and "National Reconciliation" are geared to diluting and diminishing this threat to this powerful minority.

Thx. for the post. I enjoy the interaction.

[timekeeper]

FUGITIVE EX-PM

Special security protection for me in Malaysia : Thaksin

By Seksanti Kanlayanawisut

The Nation

Udon Thani

Published on July 14, 2009

Fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra confirmed yesterday that he had stayed overnight in Malaysia and had been provided with special-branch police security.

"My private jet stopped for refuelling in Malaysia and they sent 20 special-branch policemen to guard me. They love and care about me," Thaksin said in a phone-in to FM 97.5 Udon Lovers community radio station yesterday morning.

This is the first time that Thaksin has been so close to Thailand since he fled last year.

Thai authorities had said earlier that Thaksin was in Malaysia on July 4 and had left the next day for Fiji before Thai police could take action. Thaksin ended his island hopping in the South Pacific and flew back to Dubai last Friday.

In the radio programme, host Kwanchai Praipana, a staunch supporter of Thaksin, asked the ousted PM about his thoughts on the current government's performance.

The radio programme was also broadcast via the Internet so communities across the nation could listen in.

During the hour-long chat, Thaksin called on his red-shirt supporters to unite and prepare for the next elections.

"If there is an election we will have to come out in force like we did in Sakon Nakhon and Si Sa Ket, [where the by-elections were won by Pheu Thai Party], and change the direction of Thailand," he said.

He also added that should Pheu Thai win the elections and form the next government, it would make reconciliation possible.

Some 200 members of the Udon Lovers Club, which is associated with the radio programme, greeted the former premier, saying they missed him and wanted him to return to Thailand soon.

"You people [udon natives] are role models for red-shirt supporters nationwide. If I have a chance to return, I will buy a plot of land and build a house [in Udon Thani]," Thaksin told his supporters.

Later Kwanchai said he would evaluate the response to the phone-in and added that he might ask the former PM to call again if he felt the need to defend himself.

"For three years Thaksin has been facing accusations, and he has not been able to defend himself because the state media has shut its door on him. So, our community radios nationwide should allow him to be heard," the host said.

-- The Nation 2009/07/14

i will be happy to buy him the land on the proviso that he gets in the hole i would be delighted to dig for him....

[Samuian]

"biased" on what ecxactly?

that Mr.Thaksin has ripped off this country as no one ever before,

that he has taken the people giving him their votes

......................................................................edited

That he targets an "Elite" he himself and his Clan have been part of and since his PM-Hood risen to it's very top?

Did you mean this by being "biased"?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"WOW" did you hit the nail on the head !!!

and yet there WILL be people that will aways love POND SCUM !!!!!

SCARY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

........sure and as simple as this - but Pond Scum will always remain Pond Scum!

[samran]

So according to you I am exposing my ignorance Huh! I write knowledgably my friend with exactly that - historical fact. I am not propagandizing my fellowposter and friend. It is not me "parrotting" the English language media. Backing up with facts and evidence? - try me, lets get it on. where do we start? I will enjoy debating with you or anyone else. I caution you however, that my cause is the cause of one-person-one-vote electoral democracy, of which icon Thaksin has the best record here in Thailand.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the notion of one person, one vote. It is the basis, but not the sole pre-requisite, of a healthy democracy. To believe in democracy you believe in the worth of a persons vote, you respect the voice of your opposition, you respect the need - and indeed fight for - independent balanced instututions such as courts, police, army etc. You don't close down opposition newspapers and threaten your opposition with liable suits at every turn.

So no, my question to you is simply this: Is Thaksin a democrat in the true sense of the word?

I could refute many of the Thaksin charges in this posting, but that is not of primary concern at the moment. I keep referencing the orchestrated Thaksin demonization campaign and believe it started prior to the coup. Many of his entanglements with the domestic media was Thaksin's earliest push-back to the attacks on him, which presaged the coup.

I am glad you agree with the one-person-one-vote electoral process, but contrary to what you say, many disagree with that. This process results in "rule of the majority", and many powerful sectors of Thai society are not in that majority. So they need to eliminate it. I believe the current initiatives dealing with so-called "Political Reform" and "National Reconciliation" are geared to diluting and diminishing this threat to this powerful minority.

Thx. for the post. I enjoy the interaction.

FWIW, nice answer, albelit a bit elusive. But you still haven't answered my question Is he or isn't he a democrat? Even Hitler needed to get elected (not that I am comparing them personally).

Edited July 14, 2009 by samran

[Ferwert]

Another huge problem is that millions of people like him as PM..Mind boggling.

Quite simple; they were much better off under him and his proxies than they were under the previous Chuan Leekpai Democrat government and under this current majority Democrat coalition.

Thaksin's visit to Malaysia shows yet again the region's other governments aren't concerned about him nor do they fully recognise the current Thai government's charges for extradition and arrest.

Agree wholeheartedly. I couldn't have said it better myself. I hear the same from my little professional Thai political activist who warms my bed at night. She will give me a litany of how Thaksin's Government was a vast improvement over what went on before. She has been immersed in Thai Politics for years. Thaksins Government was a breath of fresh air....And sentiments are not what spurs this opinion. Election results consistently support it. It was the first time a Politician listened to the electorate. An unheard of phenomenon before. No amount of Media and officially orchestrated Thaksin demonization campaign make those facts go away. The electorate will do it again in a heart-beat, if given a chance. And that is what is being actively resisted by powerful forces. Every red herring they can think of to bolster there intentions to eliminate that vexing electorally based democracy, be it desppicable vote buying, demonization of politicians using the courts, passively supporting the anti-democracy PAD and actively suppressing the pro-democracy Red Shirts. Being paranoid about Thaksin and pursuing him relentlessly is not by accident. He and all those electors are their biggest threat.

[Siripon]

Another huge problem is that millions of people like him as PM..Mind boggling.

Quite simple; they were much better off under him and his proxies than they were under the previous Chuan Leekpai Democrat government and under this current majority Democrat coalition.

Thaksin's visit to Malaysia shows yet again the region's other governments aren't concerned about him nor do they fully recognise the current Thai government's charges for extradition and arrest.

Which democracies have so far banned Thaksin?

UK, Germany, Japan, can he actually get in the EU or USA?. He doesn't seem willing to try.

Reduced to lurking around juntas and authoritarian regimes, very fitting.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Siripon

[LaoPo]

So according to you I am exposing my ignorance Huh! I write knowledgably my friend with exactly that - historical fact. I am not propagandizing my fellowposter and friend. It is not me "parrotting" the English language media. Backing up with facts and evidence? - try me, lets get it on. where do we start? I will enjoy debating with you or anyone else. I caution you however, that my cause is the cause of one-person-one-vote electoral democracy, of which icon Thaksin has the best record here in Thailand.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the notion of one person, one vote. It is the basis, but not the sole pre-requisite, of a healthy democracy. To believe in democracy you believe in the worth of a persons vote, you respect the voice of your opposition, you respect the need - and indeed fight for - independent balanced instututions such as courts, police, army etc. You don't close down opposition newspapers and threaten your opposition with liable suits at every turn.

So no, my question to you is simply this: Is Thaksin a democrat in the true sense of the word?

Oohh...I think a lot of people in Thailand disagree with you Samran....didn't Sondhi Limthongkul say that a one-man-one-vote system wouldn't work because the rural poor were uneducated and not fit for a proper vote ? The same powers, backing Sondhi, are now in and behind the present power.

I really wonder what would happen if there would be new -democratic- elections now.....one-man-one-vote indeed. I agree with those last words.

LaoPo

[emancipationthailand]

IT WOULD NOT BE FARE IF THERE ARE LITTLE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT TAKSIN'S OPPONENTS. I MEANT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE LONG LINES OF DICTATORIAL GENERALS IN WHICH ALLIED THEMSELVES FOR YEARS.

MOST THAI WHO ARE AWARE OF LONG AND LONG HISTORY IN THAI POLOTICS AND MILITARISTIC INTERVENTIONS/INTERUPTIONS, WOULD NOT CARE ABOUT TAKSIN'S COURT CASES FOR THE EXTREMELY WEAK FACTUAL PREDICATED CRIMES.

WE ARE MUCH AND MUCH MORE INTERESTED IN SEEING THE THROUGH AND COMPLETE INVESTIGATION AND INDICTMENT OF THE FIDF CASE WHICH 'ACTUALLY' COSTED THE COUNTRY 2 MILLION MILLION BAHT IN FINANCIAL LOST. >> 2,000,000,000,000 BAHT << IN WHICH THE MAIN CAUSE MAY COME FROM THE MISHANDLING ADMINISTRATION AND MANAGEMENT OF THE OVERULING BEREAU, DURING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S GOVT

FYI, THE ACCUSED FIGURES (W/ HARD EVIDENCES) AROUND THE FDI CASE HAD LONG HELP CAMPAIGNED AGAINST TAKSIN, AND WERE WELL AWARDED WITH EXTREMELY STRONG POSITIONS, AND THE INVESTIGATIONS AND THE MEDIA HAD GONE UTTERLY SILENCED.

HATE THE JUNTA'S NETWORKS AND I'LL PREDICT THAT YOU'LL PROBABLY IGNORE MY POSE COS IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO HOLD THE DISCUSSION WITH THE ACTUAL THAI GURU ON THE POLITICS.

I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE THOSE FARANGS TAKSIN HATERS (IF YOU ARE REAL FARANGS) TO HELD THE POLITICAL DISSCUSSIONS WITH THE PEOPLE IN PANTIP.COM TO SEE HOW IT'D PLAY OUT. WE DO NOT MIND THE ENGLISH POSTS, OF COURSE. ^^

Edited July 14, 2009 by emancipationthailand

[webfact]

IT WOULD NOT BE FARE TO DISCUSS ABOUT TAKSIN'S OPPONENT TOO. I MEANT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE LONG LINES OF DICTATORIAL GENERALS IN WHICH ALLIED THEMSELVES FOR YEARS.

MOST THAI WHO ARE AWARE OF LONG AND LONG HISTORY IN THAI POLOTICS AND MILITARISTIC INTERVENTIONS/INTERUPTIONS, WOULD NOT CARE ABOUT TAKSIN'S COURT CASES FOR THE EXTREMELY WEAK FACTUAL PREDICATED CRIMES.

WE ARE MUCH AND MUCH MORE INTERESTED IN SEEING THE THROUGH AND COMPLETE INVESTIGATION AND INDICTMENT OF THE FIDF CASE WHICH 'ACTUALLY' COSTED THE COUNTRY 2 MILLION MILLION BAHT IN FINANCIAL LOST. >> 2,000,000,000,000 BAHT << IN WHICH THE MAIN CAUSE MAY COME FROM THE MISHANDLING ADMINISTRATION AND MANAGEMENT OF THE OVERULING BEREAU.

HATE THE JUNTA'S NETWORKS.

could you please avoid typing in capital letters. It is hard to read and is considered as shouting. Thank you

Edited July 14, 2009 by webfact

[Ferwert]

So according to you I am exposing my ignorance Huh! I write knowledgably my friend with exactly that - historical fact. I am not propagandizing my fellowposter and friend. It is not me "parrotting" the English language media. Backing up with facts and evidence? - try me, lets get it on. where do we start? I will enjoy debating with you or anyone else. I caution you however, that my cause is the cause of one-person-one-vote electoral democracy, of which icon Thaksin has the best record here in Thailand.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the notion of one person, one vote. It is the basis, but not the sole pre-requisite, of a healthy democracy. To believe in democracy you believe in the worth of a persons vote, you respect the voice of your opposition, you respect the need - and indeed fight for - independent balanced instututions such as courts, police, army etc. You don't close down opposition newspapers and threaten your opposition with liable suits at every turn.

So no, my question to you is simply this: Is Thaksin a democrat in the true sense of the word?

I could refute many of the Thaksin charges in this posting, but that is not of primary concern at the moment. I keep referencing the orchestrated Thaksin demonization campaign and believe it started prior to the coup. Many of his entanglements with the domestic media was Thaksin's earliest push-back to the attacks on him, which presaged the coup.

I am glad you agree with the one-person-one-vote electoral process, but contrary to what you say, many disagree with that. This process results in "rule of the majority", and many powerful sectors of Thai society are not in that majority. So they need to eliminate it. I believe the current initiatives dealing with so-called "Political Reform" and "National Reconciliation" are geared to diluting and diminishing this threat to this powerful minority.

Thx. for the post. I enjoy the interaction.

FWIW, nice answer, albelit a bit elusive. But you still haven't answered my question Is he or isn't he a democrat? Even Hitler needed to get elected (not that I am comparing them personally).

Yes he is. I have no reason to believe otherwise. He was the victim of anti-democrat forces. Their actions were not based on protecting Democracy, quite the contrary. After launching the Thaksin demonization campaign, they were as surprised as anyone that Thaksin's supporters were re-elected. I was flabbergasted. To see the Thai electorate overcome the anti-Thaksin propaganda, and overcome the media onslaught of anti-Thaksin coverage made me respectful of that electorate. They knew which politician had been the first to apply electoral democratic practices of incorporating the interests of the electorate instead of only those of certain powerful sectors of society, and they didn't forget. The notion that NE voters are a bunch of intellectually challenged dolts who have no idea what is in their best self-interest and will vote for whomever gives them 20 baht, is pure propaganda by those who need to eliminate electoral, one-person-one-vote democracy.

[baht&sold]

The same powers, backing Sondhi, are now in and behind the present power.

Odd, those supposedly 'in and behind' the present power have just charged Sondhi & Co.

Today, the PAD had their suit against PM Abhisit and the Police Chief rejected by the court.

Hardly seems like 'backing' by the PM's office bringing charges and the court rejecting PAD's suit?

PAD aren't and shouldn't be above the law any more than Mr Thaksin. Good to see things going in the right direction.

Edit-

PS: anyone who wants to have an election in the midst of the largest economic downturn in memory, plus the flu-'frenzy', plus incited political mayhem, seeks to place theirs and their desired proxy's interests ahead of the Nation. Elections are likely by year-end, no need to vacate the Govt for minimum 3 months in order to rush the 'right honourable' Mr Chalerm into the waiting proxy-PM's seat...

Edited July 14, 2009 by baht&sold

[Samuian]

Thaksin a Democrat!

and now Thailand has a "Military Junta"...!

Da Joke of the century!

Can't believe there are people out there who genuinely believe this BS!

[Ferwert]

Another huge problem is that millions of people like him as PM..Mind boggling.

Quite simple; they were much better off under him and his proxies than they were under the previous Chuan Leekpai Democrat government and under this current majority Democrat coalition.

Thaksin's visit to Malaysia shows yet again the region's other governments aren't concerned about him nor do they fully recognise the current Thai government's charges for extradition and arrest.

Which democracies have so far banned Thaksin?

UK, Germany, Japan, can he actually get in the EU or USA?. He doesn't seem willing to try.

Reduced to lurking around juntas and authoritarian regimes, very fitting.

It would be very interesting to know the arm-twisting that took place between the paranoid Thai Government and those Governments who have acted against Thaksin. Business and international relations supercede many things. I have heard many stories from my pro-democracy friends in this regard, but find them unsubstantiated in the main.

[hammered]

Yes he is. I have no reason to believe otherwise. He was the victim of anti-democrat forces. Their actions were not based on protecting Democracy, quite the contrary. After launching the Thaksin demonization campaign, they were as surprised as anyone that Thaksin's supporters were re-elected. I was flabbergasted. To see the Thai electorate overcome the anti-Thaksin propaganda, and overcome the media onslaught of anti-Thaksin coverage made me respectful of that electorate. They knew which politician had been the first to apply electoral democratic practices of incorporating the interests of the electorate instead of only those of certain powerful sectors of society, and they didn't forget. The notion that NE voters are a bunch of intellectually challenged dolts who have no idea what is in their best self-interest and will vote for whomever gives them 20 baht, is pure propaganda by those who need to eliminate electoral, one-person-one-vote democracy.

There have been many democratically elected leaders around the world who have later turned out to be human rights abusers but they are not usually categorised as being democrats.

Thaksin did oversee a policy of extra-judicial killings that resulted in the deaths of several thousand people ( for perspective almost the same number as killed under the admittedly undemocratic Pinochet regime in Chile according to the Rettig report). In a democracy of course people are regarded as innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and hence we are talking about the death of many innocent people in a very undemocratic action. By international standards the head of a government is held ultimately responsible for these kind of abuses under government policy. Surely this would mitigate against Thaksin being described as a democrat in any less than simplistic defintion of the word democrat.

I even understand there are (a minority of) red activisits concerned at this side of Thakin's credentials.

[Datsun240Z]

Takkie has to come back period. He will change alot to the country to make it more modern and welfare. It's good that he get's that money from the rich. Corruption has the be fighted with corruption.