Thai Airbus A330-300 Aircraft

[halarpohala]

thai airways flies about a dozen of the airbus a330-300 aircraft that are known to have either faulty pitot tube air speed measurements or a flaw in the fly-by-wire software or both that may have caused the af447 crash and other crashes and near crashes in a330 flights operated by air new zealand and quantas. i would like to know whether thai has upgraded their pitot tubes from thales to goodrich as recommended by airbnus and if they are aware of the software problems and whether their pilots have been trained to deal with them. how can i do that? whom should i ask? the reservation clerk did not appear to have a clue.

Edited July 25, 2009 by halarpohala

[trd]

I think that's probably because the reservation clerks job is to do.......um........reservations?

[QED]

Don't know about that, I just want to know if they have personal tv's these days the cheap bstards, flying out to Bali tomorrow. It's work unfortunately so I didn't get to choose the airline, if I did it definitely wouldn't have been Thai.

[mdechgan]

Don't know about that, I just want to know if they have personal tv's these days the cheap bstards, flying out to Bali tomorrow. It's work unfortunately so I didn't get to choose the airline, if I did it definitely wouldn't have been Thai.

THAI does not currently have PTV in economy class other than their 777-200ERs, and a340s.

They have 3 777-300 (very old) aircraft and 2 a330-300. Only 1 of each has PTVs in their economy cabin. So chances of having PTVs in economy on these planes are 50-50 at best. If royal silk no worries.

Edited July 25, 2009 by mdechgan

[halarpohala]

I think that's probably because the reservation clerks job is to do.......um........reservations?

thank you. i called back and got a number for their headquarters. that number is 0-2545-1000. i will call monday and will post what i find. again thank you. so stupid of me to ask the reservation clerk.....

[ozfarang81]

Don't know about that, I just want to know if they have personal tv's these days the cheap bstards, flying out to Bali tomorrow. It's work unfortunately so I didn't get to choose the airline, if I did it definitely wouldn't have been Thai.

THAI does not currently have PTV in economy class other than their 777-200ERs, and a340s.

They have 3 777-300 (very old) aircraft and 2 a330-300. Only 1 of each has PTVs in their economy cabin. So chances of having PTVs in economy on these planes are 50-50 at best. If royal silk no worries.

Unless you have some clue about what you are talking about why bother posting?

Actually, there is 6 777-300's, and they are not old at all (they are all between 8 and 10 yrs old), 4 of them have been refitted with new products, including PTV in economy class. The aircraft with new products are: HS-TKA, HS-TKB, HS-TKC, HS-TKF. Another one is now out of service and being refitted, so if you are on a 773 you have an 80% chance of new product. And 95% if your 773 is operating to Australia (they try to ensure the new refitted 773 aircraft are on the SYD/BNE flights).

Thai have a large fleet of 14 Airbus A330-300 aircraft, they have started taking delivery of new ones this year, so far 2 have been delivered. These newly delivered aircraft have all new products with PTV in economy class. The 2 new aircraft as HS-TEN and HS-TEO. It is intended to operate the new A330's on Japan and Australia services.

Thai Airways has been operating a long time and Airbus is always in consultation with operators of its aircraft. If Airbus issues a directive to its operators requiring them to change the pitot tubes then airlines around the world will do so. The last thing any airline wants is a crash. The final reports about the AF447 disaster have not been released, there is no need to speculate in advance.

For the poster asking about PTV's to Bali, todays service was operated by a B773, HS-TKA, with new products in economy including PTV. However, if your flight is on an Airbus A330, the chances are slim that PTV's will be available, unless you happen to score HS-TEN or HS-TEO. You can see the registration numbers on the nosewheel doors when you are in the gate area at BKK.

[halarpohala]

Thai Airways has been operating a long time and Airbus is always in consultation with operators of its aircraft. If Airbus issues a directive to its operators requiring them to change the pitot tubes then airlines around the world will do so.

yes, but is there a way to verify that it has been done? air france has put ou]t a press release saying that all its a330 aircraft have been retrofitted. has thai made a similar declaration? af447 is still a mystery but it did cause airbus to re-issue its earlier recommendation to change the pitot tubes. incidentally a similar dive by a quantas a330 was controlled manually by the crew and a disaster was averted. in this case the speculation is a glitch in the fly-by-wire software.

[ozfarang81]

Air France did that as a PR exercise to reassure the public. There has been no airworthiness directive from Airbus forcing carriers to replace the pitot tubes.

Perhaps you just better not fly mate, you could look into the history of almost every kind of aircraft designed on the planet and find a fatal crash and start speculating that this could happen on any upcoming flight you might be on.... Don't forget to check the service history of the taxi you get in when you go to the airport, call the taxi company and ask them for a copy of the records.

[halarpohala]

Perhaps you just better not fly mate, you could look into the history of almost every kind of aircraft designed on the planet and find a fatal crash and start speculating that this could happen on any upcoming flight you might be on.....

thanks mate. just paranoia? still, it's not just any old fatal crash but one that both airbus and air france say was probably due to a correctable equipment problem.

[QED]

Actually, there is 6 777-300's, and they are not old at all (they are all between 8 and 10 yrs old), 4 of them have been refitted with new products, including PTV in economy class. The aircraft with new products are: HS-TKA, HS-TKB, HS-TKC, HS-TKF. Another one is now out of service and being refitted, so if you are on a 773 you have an 80% chance of new product. And 95% if your 773 is operating to Australia (they try to ensure the new refitted 773 aircraft are on the SYD/BNE flights).

Thai have a large fleet of 14 Airbus A330-300 aircraft, they have started taking delivery of new ones this year, so far 2 have been delivered. These newly delivered aircraft have all new products with PTV in economy class. The 2 new aircraft as HS-TEN and HS-TEO. It is intended to operate the new A330's on Japan and Australia services.

Thai Airways has been operating a long time and Airbus is always in consultation with operators of its aircraft. If Airbus issues a directive to its operators requiring them to change the pitot tubes then airlines around the world will do so. The last thing any airline wants is a crash. The final reports about the AF447 disaster have not been released, there is no need to speculate in advance.

For the poster asking about PTV's to Bali, todays service was operated by a B773, HS-TKA, with new products in economy including PTV. However, if your flight is on an Airbus A330, the chances are slim that PTV's will be available, unless you happen to score HS-TEN or HS-TEO. You can see the registration numbers on the nosewheel doors when you are in the gate area at BKK.

Thanks for that, very informative. Just checked my ticket and it is a A330 so probably out of luck, it's only 4.5 hours but I find a movie or 2 helps the time to....err...fly.

I can't believe in this day and age that they don't have this in all their aircraft, all their competitors do and is quite a strong factor for me in selecting an airline, especially long haul.

[Datsun240Z]

Why bother to ask? Are you an engineer? Are you the chief director of Airbus? NO, so just fly.

[cdnvic]

Perhaps you just better not fly mate, you could look into the history of almost every kind of aircraft designed on the planet and find a fatal crash and start speculating that this could happen on any upcoming flight you might be on.....

thanks mate. just paranoia? still, it's not just any old fatal crash but one that both airbus and air france say was probably due to a correctable equipment problem.

Yes, and that was the only fatal crash ever of an A330 in airline service. Despite that crash only one airliner, the 777 boasts a better safety record. (A380 not being counted as few are in service yet)

Keep it in perspective.

[halarpohala]

Why bother to ask? Are you an engineer? Are you the chief director of Airbus? NO, so just fly.

as it turns out i am an engineer but i do get your point. a golf buddy (well connected thai) sent me this email that is in the same vein:

I spoke to 3 people in the know, 2 worked with Thai previously & one now sits in the govt oversight committee that has jurisdiction over govt & semi govt organizations. I can't answer explicitly that the said gadgets have all been replaced in all Thai Airbus A330-300 aircrafts. But I can give you assurance in many other ways. 1. The oversight committee is satisfied that Thai will not have that problem on hand. 2. It is not conclusively proven that the gadget caused the crash. 3. Even if the gadget is suspect, it will fail in extreme, rare flight condition & probably confined to long hauls. 4. The potential problem is well understood by the pilots so measures have been drawn up just in case. Hope this helps. Have a happy flight.

thank you for your post.

[ozfarang81]

Thanks for that, very informative. Just checked my ticket and it is a A330 so probably out of luck, it's only 4.5 hours but I find a movie or 2 helps the time to....err...fly.

I can't believe in this day and age that they don't have this in all their aircraft, all their competitors do and is quite a strong factor for me in selecting an airline, especially long haul.

I agree that its unfortunate and overdue. On the route you are flying there really is only one other airline option non-stop, that is Air Asia, also offering no PTV's. There will be main screen entertainment if that is any comfort at all ?? Along with audio entertainment.

Other option is Singapore Air via singapore, but you will be adding at least 2 to 3 hours, probably more, to the journey, and most of the 777-200's SQ use regionally don't have audio video on demand but instead play on a repeating loop on the various channels available on the PTV's.

Thai have now deferred A380 deliveries until 2012, these aircraft will have all new products and will replace several Boeing 747-400's currently being used on routes like London and Frankfurt. Once this is complete, the majority of flights over 5 hrs or so will have new products.

For those of us on east-coast of Australia Thai Airways is very competitive on products and pricing when flying to Bangkok, and the only 'full-service' airline flying non-stop to Bangkok out of Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth.

To the OP: have a pleasant flight on your Airbus A330, just like the other probably more than 100,000 people stepping on an A330 on that same day! (as they have been doing for over a decade)

[verydumbubba]

You are dead wrong - apologies to all for the exceedingly bad pun - the AF maintenance crew were 'waiting' for #447 to arrive in Paris, to change the suspect pitots. Clearly, it was too late.

Bubba

If Airbus issues a directive to its operators requiring them to change the pitot tubes then airlines around the world will do so. The last thing any airline wants is a crash. The final reports about the AF447 disaster have not been released, there is no need to speculate in advance.

Spoken like the Fuhrer!

Unless you have some clue about what you are talking about why bother posting?

[MarkyM3]

Do Thai have any plans to replace the 747-400 used on the London - BKK route??? Perfectly safe aircraft I'm sure but they've definitely seen better days. EVA have recently rolled out brand new 777-300ER's that are top notch (took a flight on one earlier this month). I would have thought this is a key route for Thai, then again maybe they ain't too bothered....

Edit - jus re-read Ozfarang's post. Wait until 2012 for replacement for 747-400, LOL..

Edited July 25, 2009 by MarkyM3

[tw25rw]

Will be interesting to see how they organise the withdrawal of the 744 considering the ones with the newer cabins are the older planes.

[cdnvic]

Will be interesting to see how they organise the withdrawal of the 744 considering the ones with the newer cabins are the older planes.

Probably will sell off the newer ones while they can still get a decent price for them.

[ozfarang81]

You are dead wrong - apologies to all for the exceedingly bad pun - the AF maintenance crew were 'waiting' for #447 to arrive in Paris, to change the suspect pitots. Clearly, it was too late.

Bubba

If Airbus issues a directive to its operators requiring them to change the pitot tubes then airlines around the world will do so. The last thing any airline wants is a crash. The final reports about the AF447 disaster have not been released, there is no need to speculate in advance.

Spoken like the Fuhrer!

Unless you have some clue about what you are talking about why bother posting?

Good to see your posts match your nickname

[cdnvic]

While I do believe the fear of the 330 is way exaggerated, it's nice to see someone picking out their flight by looking past what's simply the cheapest seat.

[dale8]

The last time I flew in that type of aircraft the people around me thought I might be a little paranoid as I put my carry on parachute in the overhead bin. It is good you worry about dying so much, but we can choose to not fly in an airplane so how many of us want to live forever? Cheers.

[halarpohala]

today, monday, i called the thai airways head office in bangkok (0-2545-1000) and they referred me to their "customer support" department (0-2137-5040). the man in charge of customer support is khun pairat pawseul. he was very kind and jai dee. he told me that yes, as per airbus recommendations, thai airways has indeed changed all the thales pitot tubes on their a-330 equipment to goodrich. so my question has been answered (to my satisfaction) and i would like to share this information. many thanks to the thaivisa forum for the kind posts that helped me along the way.

[bkkjames]

Perhaps you just better not fly mate, you could look into the history of almost every kind of aircraft designed on the planet and find a fatal crash and start speculating that this could happen on any upcoming flight you might be on.....

thanks mate. just paranoia? still, it's not just any old fatal crash but one that both airbus and air france say was probably due to a correctable equipment problem.

Yes, and that was the only fatal crash ever of an A330 in airline service. Despite that crash only one airliner, the 777 boasts a better safety record. (A380 not being counted as few are in service yet)

Keep it in perspective.

In terms of deaths perhaps, but try telling that to the 300 people who did the belly landing in the mud at Heathrow a couple years back - could have easily been worse.

[halarpohala]

In terms of deaths perhaps, but try telling that to the 300 people who did the belly landing in the mud at Heathrow a couple years back - could have easily been worse.

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also a quantas a330 was taken on a sudden and unexpected dive by the fly-by-wire software. the dive caused injuries to passengers and crew who were not seat-belted down. the pilot took manual control and saved the day. that too could have been worse - as bad as af447 perhaps if the dive had taken them all the way down.

[zzaa09]

thai airways flies about a dozen of the airbus a330-300 aircraft that are known to have either faulty pitot tube air speed measurements or a flaw in the fly-by-wire software or both that may have caused the af447 crash and other crashes and near crashes in a330 flights operated by air new zealand and quantas. i would like to know whether thai has upgraded their pitot tubes from thales to goodrich as recommended by airbnus and if they are aware of the software problems and whether their pilots have been trained to deal with them. how can i do that? whom should i ask? the reservation clerk did not appear to have a clue.

This might help. A very deep archive of subjective info http://www.pprune.org Professional Pilots Rumour Network Forum.

[halarpohala]

This might help. A very deep archive of subjective info http://www.pprune.org Professional Pilots Rumour Network Forum.

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very helpful. thanks.

[tw25rw]

today, monday, i called the thai airways head office in bangkok (0-2545-1000) and they referred me to their "customer support" department (0-2137-5040). the man in charge of customer support is khun pairat pawseul. he was very kind and jai dee. he told me that yes, as per airbus recommendations, thai airways has indeed changed all the thales pitot tubes on their a-330 equipment to goodrich. so my question has been answered (to my satisfaction) and i would like to share this information. many thanks to the thaivisa forum for the kind posts that helped me along the way.

Ah, but can you believe him?

[MarkyM3]

Perhaps you just better not fly mate, you could look into the history of almost every kind of aircraft designed on the planet and find a fatal crash and start speculating that this could happen on any upcoming flight you might be on.....

thanks mate. just paranoia? still, it's not just any old fatal crash but one that both airbus and air france say was probably due to a correctable equipment problem.

Yes, and that was the only fatal crash ever of an A330 in airline service. Despite that crash only one airliner, the 777 boasts a better safety record. (A380 not being counted as few are in service yet)

Keep it in perspective.

In terms of deaths perhaps, but try telling that to the 300 people who did the belly landing in the mud at Heathrow a couple years back - could have easily been worse.

True but that was traced to an engine issue. Not sure if it has been fixed yet (manufacturer quoted a year and that was around a year or so ago). In the meantime, there are established workaround procedures in place to prevent it (uncommanded loss of engine thrust) occurring.

Edited July 27, 2009 by MarkyM3

[cdnvic]

As I've stated elsewhere, fly-by-wire problems can occur, but not nearly at the rate that mechanical faults do. Look through the lists of aviation accidents where the cause has proven to be the mechanical flight controls, then look at the list of accidents caused by fly-by-wire since introduction in 1987. You'll find the first list long and the second one empty.

[wackysleet]

Perhaps you just better not fly mate, you could look into the history of almost every kind of aircraft designed on the planet and find a fatal crash and start speculating that this could happen on any upcoming flight you might be on.....

thanks mate. just paranoia? still, it's not just any old fatal crash but one that both airbus and air france say was probably due to a correctable equipment problem.

Yes, and that was the only fatal crash ever of an A330 in airline service. Despite that crash only one airliner, the 777 boasts a better safety record. (A380 not being counted as few are in service yet)

Keep it in perspective.

06/30/1994. A330 crashed due to pilot error, not counting the last Air France crash the total number of A300 series planes involved in crashes/incidents stand at 33.