Privy Council Denies Discussing Pardon Petition

[Gary A]

I would bet that the Thaksin hater camp are mostly recent arrivals and have no idea about previous administrations. Those ill informed farangs have somehow gotten the idea that other Thai politicians are reasonably honest.

[rixalex]

I would bet that the Thaksin hater camp are mostly recent arrivals and have no idea about previous administrations. Those ill informed farangs have somehow gotten the idea that other Thai politicians are reasonably honest.

Gary, why do you take an attack on Thaksin as being a defence of other politicians, past and present? It's not.

[Gary A]

I would bet that the Thaksin hater camp are mostly recent arrivals and have no idea about previous administrations. Those ill informed farangs have somehow gotten the idea that other Thai politicians are reasonably honest.

Gary, why do you take an attack on Thaksin as being a defence of other politicians, past and present? It's not.

Because I don't think he is any worse than the others. The rest hate him because he is smarter than they are. He created a lot of enemies by shortening the feed trough.

The others are not even smart enough to throw a few crumbs to the poor farmers.

[Plus]

..you are absolutely correct about your characterization of Fox news. But that I see. Their agenized version is blatantly apparent to me, because I come from the opposite political pursuasion. So what that tells me, is that when the news agrees with one's basic ideas, it is seen as objective and when not, it is perceived as agenized.

Is he saying that everything he agrees with is objective, and everything he doesn't agree with is "agenized"?

First, I think Fervert meant "subjective". What one sees through his own eyes is subjective.

Second, if he uses "agenized" to mean filtered, edited, washed, distorted etc, then it's a one big assumption about everyone who disagrees with him. That is not a gentleman's approach to a discussion. I hope he didn't mean that.

[Scott]

I teach a couple of adult classes and we enjoy discussing politics quite a lot. Fortunately, they are fairly middle of the road, or at least rational in their approach. So the pro-yellow and pro-red people can talk about what is happening and why they feel the way they do. I moderate all discussions and make sure things stay civil (they are all friends with one another anyway, but I like to make sure it doesn't get personal).

From the discussion, however, I can glean that a great deal of the Red Shirt material is poorly reported and reported in a more negative light than the other side. This I get from the discussion of the two sides and information they are presenting--a fair amount of which isn't reported in the English press. This, as far as I know is a clear bias.

To be fair, however, I must admit the activity level of the Red Shirts is currently higher than the yellow-shirts and therefore is likely to attract more negative attention.

When I read the local English newspapers I feel very much like I do when I watch Fox news.

[Publicus]

It's a pleasure to meet Ferwert the gentleman.

A gentleman?

Most gentlemen i meet don't tell me everyday that i'm too stupid to form an educated opinion on an issue without being fooled by bias in the local media that they alone are clever enough to perceive.

Because E=Mc2 I am referring to Post # 53 to this thread.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Publicus

[rixalex]

I would bet that the Thaksin hater camp are mostly recent arrivals and have no idea about previous administrations. Those ill informed farangs have somehow gotten the idea that other Thai politicians are reasonably honest.

Gary, why do you take an attack on Thaksin as being a defence of other politicians, past and present? It's not.

Because I don't think he is any worse than the others. The rest hate him because he is smarter than they are. He created a lot of enemies by shortening the feed trough.

The others are not even smart enough to throw a few crumbs to the poor farmers.

You didn't answer my question.

If someone in the "Thaksin hater camp" as you call it, attacks Thaksin for one of his wrong-doings, why do you assume that that person must be ignorant or unaware of previous corrupt Thai politicians? I'm fully aware Thaksin wasn't the first and won't be the last to abuse power. I hate them all. Question is, why don't you?

Oh that's right, "Thaksin was bad, but did some good" - so that's alright then!

If i asked you to choose one serial rapist to defend would you select the one who had raped the least, or would you tell me to eff off and that you wouldn't waste your breath defending any of those evil bast*rds?

[Plus]

..From the discussion, however, I can glean that a great deal of the Red Shirt material is poorly reported and reported in a more negative light than the other side. This I get from the discussion of the two sides and information they are presenting--a fair amount of which isn't reported in the English press. This, as far as I know is a clear bias...

Supporting Thaksin in the name of democracy and trying to get a pardon for him are plain wrong.

It's not bias.

There are lots of other issues that have put reds permanently in "delusional" camp.

They, of course, do not see themselves as such, and so if you listen to them, mingle with them, read their news, they seem like normal, nice people who wouldn't hurt a fly, and most of the time they are.

Perhaps it's this extra familiraty that distorts some people's views. Pretty much like family members will always stand up for their own, no matter what.

To be objective means keeping distance, among other things.

[Gary A]

You didn't answer my question.

If someone in the "Thaksin hater camp" as you call it, attacks Thaksin for one of his wrong-doings, why do you assume that that person must be ignorant or unaware of previous corrupt Thai politicians? I'm fully aware Thaksin wasn't the first and won't be the last to abuse power. I hate them all. Question is, why don't you?

Oh that's right, "Thaksin was bad, but did some good" - so that's alright then!

If i asked you to choose one serial rapist to defend would you select the one who had raped the least, or would you tell me to eff off and that you wouldn't waste your breath defending any of those evil bast*rds?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What have I written to make you think that I am a Thaksin supporter? All I TRIED to say is that he is a smarter crook. They ALL belong to the good ole boys network. You don't tell on me and I won't tell on you. Thaksin was thrown out of the network because he outsmarted all of them.

[rixalex]

What have I written to make you think that I am a Thaksin supporter?

I'm not saying you are a Thaksin supporter but your posts do seem to defend him.

As for him being so smart, i hardly think he would be in the position he is in right now were that the case, do you?

[animatic]

I would genuinely be interested in knowing what version of democracy the red shirts support.

I would rather ask how red shirts reconcile their personality cult with ANY kind of democracy?

I also want to remind that Thaksin was banned from politics for a very serious offence against the same electoral democracy the red shirts are campaigning for. He has created fake parties with fake credentials and fake candidates and even went as far as to break into official election commission database and falsify official records.

Everybody must be equal before the law for ANY kind of democracy. Why do red shirts think that Thaksin deserves special treatment - i.e. not being punished for those actions?

Yes these MAJOR points have been left out of the debate for too long.

Thanks for the timely reminder of still MORE convictions of Thaksin's minions AND Thaksin himself.

Oh yes and THESE criminal political actions were committed under 1997 constitution

and BEFORE the coup, and tried based on laws from before.

The new constitution changed some fundamental basis laws, or added some

but didn't globally throw out the regular laws of the land.

Yet that set of constitutional changes were irrelevant to TRT's demise.

They cheated and broke SEVERAL laws and were duly disbanded.

"created fake parties

with fake credentials

and fake candidates

and even went as far as to break into official election commission database

and falsify official records."

Just so TRT could 'Run Opposed"

and thus significantly lower the threshold of votes needed to win a seat.

In other words

TRT was worried many of their candidates could NOT get enough votes running unopposed.

But lets bring back to the trough these fraudsters and cheats for the sake of 'national resolution'.

What a cheap idea and degrading to the entire Thai populous.

[animatic]

You didn't answer my question.

If someone in the "Thaksin hater camp" as you call it, attacks Thaksin for one of his wrong-doings, why do you assume that that person must be ignorant or unaware of previous corrupt Thai politicians? I'm fully aware Thaksin wasn't the first and won't be the last to abuse power. I hate them all. Question is, why don't you?

Oh that's right, "Thaksin was bad, but did some good" - so that's alright then!

If i asked you to choose one serial rapist to defend would you select the one who had raped the least, or would you tell me to eff off and that you wouldn't waste your breath defending any of those evil bast*rds?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What have I written to make you think that I am a Thaksin supporter? All I TRIED to say is that he is a smarter crook. They ALL belong to the good ole boys network. You don't tell on me and I won't tell on you. Thaksin was thrown out of the network because he outsmarted all of them.

Well he may have been a rapist,

but says he is supporting all the kids anyway?

Righty O.

There was another rapist before and he was very bad,

since you didn't mention him, you must be supporting his lifestye?

Such absurd arguments.... and essentialy the arguments above.

Could it just be that Thaksin is the current threat: Clear and Present Danger?

He is actively making moves on the country, not sitting in a quiet retirement.

Thaksin is fomenting revolution for his own ends. That is something to be quite fearful of.

So maybe the so called Thaksin-Haters are more rightfully fearful of his vindictive return.

Because the way the cards are stacked now, his return to power will be a whirlwind of revenge,

and vindictiveness and that is ascary prospect. Much more so than a gradual changing of the stutus quo,

to some more modern and balance state for the Thai people.

Big difference.

[TAWP]

From the discussion, however, I can glean that a great deal of the Red Shirt material is poorly reported and reported in a more negative light than the other side.

So you take their perception and position on the truth and world and compare it to what the news say and deduct that the news must be under-reporting all the good things and skewing the medium-bad things to be worse?

I mean, what is the facts you base this assumption on? What you are saying is just a proof that the more radical the reds (or yellow) get in the rhetoric, the more they at the same time can claim others are mis-reporting them and then at the same time gain creds as some savior of the truth.

Wow, guess there is such a thing as eating a cake and still having it...when it comes the 'truth'.

[animatic]

..you are absolutely correct about your characterization of Fox news. But that I see. Their agenized version is blatantly apparent to me, because I come from the opposite political pursuasion. So what that tells me, is that when the news agrees with one's basic ideas, it is seen as objective and when not, it is perceived as agenized.

Is he saying that everything he agrees with is objective, and everything he doesn't agree with is "agenized"?

First, I think Fervert meant "subjective". What one sees through his own eyes is subjective.

Second, if he uses "agenized" to mean filtered, edited, washed, distorted etc, then it's a one big assumption about everyone who disagrees with him. That is not a gentleman's approach to a discussion. I hope he didn't mean that.

Pseudo literacy is no substitute for actual comprehension of the words in use....

agenize –verb (used with object), -nized, -niz⋅ing.

to bleach (flour) with nitrogen trichloride.

Also, especially British, a⋅ge⋅nise.

Origin:

1945–50; agene U.S. trade name for nitrogen trichloride + -ize

agenda

1. A list or program of things to be done or considered:

"They share with them an agenda beyond the immediate goal of democratization of the electoral process" (Daniel Sneider).

2. A plural of agendum.

[Latin, pl. of agendum, agendum; see agendum.]

Origin : agenda

1657, from L., lit. "things to be done," from neut. pl. of agendum, gerundive of agere (see act).

Originally theological (opposed to matters of belief),

sense of "items of business to be done at a meeting" first attested 1882.

Mucxh more appropo might be

ax to grind noun

Definition: hidden motive

Synonyms: agenda, driving force, hidden agenda, incentive, motivation, motive, reason, score to settle

Of course agenda must have a possessive before it.

Their hidden agenda gives versions....

His motive driven versions....

Owing to their agenda FoxNews is skewed to the right....

etc.

Fox News is anything but bleached flour, while remaining oh so white bread.

Edited July 31, 2009 by animatic

[animatic]

A much smarter crook is a more dangerous crook.

[Livinginexile]

Does the Privy Council have certain limited duties? Does that include receiving penitent beggings directly from convicted criminals admitting their crimes and pleading for mercy to be graciously granted by We-Know-Whom? Do the Council's duties require them to waste time on an irrelevant issue raised by sycophant supporters of a defiant criminal/revolutionary?

I do believe you and I are at opposite ends of the Thaksin love-hate spectrum Peaceblondie. I think it is much more crowded at your end then mine. The agenda-driven media is very effective............................. But I hope my posting #4 added some substance to the discussion.

FINALLY someone that admits that more people hate Thaksin than people that loves him.

If that is the case TAWP, why then in every election for the past 10 years or so has Thaksin, or his suporting politicians, won by a landslide?

Is it because everyone who hates Thaksin votes for him?

What a silly comment

[Livinginexile]

I would genuinely be interested in knowing what version of democracy the red shirts support.

I would rather ask how red shirts reconcile their personality cult with ANY kind of democracy?

I also want to remind that Thaksin was banned from politics for a very serious offence against the same electoral democracy the red shirts are campaigning for. He has created fake parties with fake credentials and fake candidates and even went as far as to break into official election commission database and falsify official records.

Everybody must be equal before the law for ANY kind of democracy. Why do red shirts think that Thaksin deserves special treatment - i.e. not being punished for those actions?

Ohhh c'mon Plus! how can you say that with a straight face?

If every Thai politician was investigated and then prosecuted they would ALL be in jail! As a matter of fact every living ex-politician would be in jail too.

And you know this is true.

They are ALL corrupt.

[animatic]

There was no landslide,

he STILL had to make pacts with the devils to make a coalition.

His only real feat was keeping said coalition together long enough to win a second election.

And then threw that away because the Temasek sale pissed off far to many people to leave it lieing.

[hammered]

I would genuinely be interested in knowing what version of democracy the red shirts support.

I would rather ask how red shirts reconcile their personality cult with ANY kind of democracy?

I also want to remind that Thaksin was banned from politics for a very serious offence against the same electoral democracy the red shirts are campaigning for. He has created fake parties with fake credentials and fake candidates and even went as far as to break into official election commission database and falsify official records.

Everybody must be equal before the law for ANY kind of democracy. Why do red shirts think that Thaksin deserves special treatment - i.e. not being punished for those actions?

Ohhh c'mon Plus! how can you say that with a straight face?

If every Thai politician was investigated and then prosecuted they would ALL be in jail! As a matter of fact every living ex-politician would be in jail too.

And you know this is true.

They are ALL corrupt.

Now there's a good idea

[TAWP]

Does the Privy Council have certain limited duties? Does that include receiving penitent beggings directly from convicted criminals admitting their crimes and pleading for mercy to be graciously granted by We-Know-Whom? Do the Council's duties require them to waste time on an irrelevant issue raised by sycophant supporters of a defiant criminal/revolutionary?

I do believe you and I are at opposite ends of the Thaksin love-hate spectrum Peaceblondie. I think it is much more crowded at your end then mine. The agenda-driven media is very effective............................. But I hope my posting #4 added some substance to the discussion.

FINALLY someone that admits that more people hate Thaksin than people that loves him.

If that is the case TAWP, why then in every election for the past 10 years or so has Thaksin, or his suporting politicians, won by a landslide?

Is it because everyone who hates Thaksin votes for him?

What a silly comment

Yes, indeed, it would be a silly comment. If your statement was true.

Which it isn't.

And one doesn't have to love someone to vote for them.

[MILT]

Does the Privy Council have certain limited duties? Does that include receiving penitent beggings directly from convicted criminals admitting their crimes and pleading for mercy to be graciously granted by We-Know-Whom? Do the Council's duties require them to waste time on an irrelevant issue raised by sycophant supporters of a defiant criminal/revolutionary?

I do believe you and I are at opposite ends of the Thaksin love-hate spectrum Peaceblondie. I think it is much more crowded at your end then mine. The agenda-driven media is very effective............................. But I hope my posting #4 added some substance to the discussion.

FINALLY someone that admits that more people hate Thaksin than people that loves him.

Yes. As an admitted Thaksin supporter, I make that claim unequivocally.. the Thaksin haters on this board vastly outnumber the others. The primary users of this board are Farangs (an assumption on my part) Their primary source of English language news is from the agenized English language media. I fully understand why Farangs draw the conclusions that they do. This agenda is couched in a balanced objective journalism mode. I dont blame Farangs for that, and hope if nothing else, I give them an alternative to consider....That said, the whole "Petition' thing will be an exciting thing for us outsider political-junkies to observe, to see how it plays out.

I personally do not love Thaksin nor hate him. I just want to remind everyone that when Thaksin first ran for the PM position he just eeked in because of trying to hide his wealth. Point is that from day one there was a moon shadow over this guy. I believe that he should make his return and fight this in the courts like the rest of the Thai people would have to do. End of story. As far as Farangs go following the "agenized English Language media" well what about us Farangs that know how to read Thai? If you can read Thai, try reading any of the Thai news papers and I think you would quickly retract that statement.

[mca]

..................If I dissapear from this board, you will know why!....

You've got a Maxnet internet connection?

[animatic]

Does the Privy Council have certain limited duties? Does that include receiving penitent beggings directly from convicted criminals admitting their crimes and pleading for mercy to be graciously granted by We-Know-Whom? Do the Council's duties require them to waste time on an irrelevant issue raised by sycophant supporters of a defiant criminal/revolutionary?

I do believe you and I are at opposite ends of the Thaksin love-hate spectrum Peaceblondie. I think it is much more crowded at your end then mine. The agenda-driven media is very effective............................. But I hope my posting #4 added some substance to the discussion.

FINALLY someone that admits that more people hate Thaksin than people that loves him.

Yes. As an admitted Thaksin supporter, I make that claim unequivocally.. the Thaksin haters on this board vastly outnumber the others. The primary users of this board are Farangs (an assumption on my part) Their primary source of English language news is from the agenized English language media. I fully understand why Farangs draw the conclusions that they do. This agenda is couched in a balanced objective journalism mode. I dont blame Farangs for that, and hope if nothing else, I give them an alternative to consider....That said, the whole "Petition' thing will be an exciting thing for us outsider political-junkies to observe, to see how it plays out.

I personally do not love Thaksin nor hate him. I just want to remind everyone that when Thaksin first ran for the PM position he just eeked in because of trying to hide his wealth. Point is that from day one there was a moon shadow over this guy. I believe that he should make his return and fight this in the courts like the rest of the Thai people would have to do. End of story. As far as Farangs go following the "agenized English Language media" well what about us Farangs that know how to read Thai? If you can read Thai, try reading any of the Thai news papers and I think you would quickly retract that statement.

Those wishing to prevent Thaksin from obscuring the facts with PR methods are not full majority here.

But aren't PAID to re-present a less biased point of view au contraire to the PR exercise before out eyes.

I suspect Thaksin is feared more than hated. At this point he really is more a pathetic figure than anything.

If he ever gets back power by the methods he is shown to be using, it will be hel_l in this country based on

his past patterns of action. That is most likely the real reasons behind anti-Thaksin posts in most cases.

Agenized means to bleach flour white with a chemical, it is part of a brand name.

It had NOTHING to do with having an agenda or agendum of items to be done.

Yes the media has an agenda to get the news out to the people,

and then comment on it as their masthead philosophy determines.

The idea that ALL MEDIA walk to the same tune is daft. It only takes reading 2-3 journals

to see they EACH have different points of view, and use varying importance of placement of similar stories.

That they agree on something only points to it's relative truth, rather than their relative biases.

It only serves those getting bad press too often to decry the messengers, rather than clean up ones own act.

The Thaksin PR machine's main aim is to keep him in the press positively,

and discredit those media outlets that print ANYTHING negative.

While in power Thaksin sued, or financially harassed, or had Caravan of The Poor attack,

media outlets that printed ANY negative stories about him. Since he has not that level of power

still, he is trying the less effective 'discredit by accusing of bias' method and attempting to do it

in farang eyes here, through a rotating cast of PR hacks and shills...

.

It's not at all surprising considering Thaksins PAST actions against the Thai press,

that most are dead set against his return....

again; HE made his mirror image in the press by his actions.

Why does he bother with this spuriousness? I think it is business and ego gratification needs.

And certainly he LOVES to WIN, and control what the body politic sees and hears. Totalitarian style.

Thaksin IS Big Brother without the beard and beret. Double Speak and Party Line.

Twisting words from one meaning to another for a different end, and the proles buy it whole cloth.

But the middle class is the danger to him; they see both sides of the coin. As he tries to spin it.

Some here individually seek to slow or counter that PR spin.

Edited August 2, 2009 by animatic