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[eek]

There is a row of pet shops across from KSK (the underpass area, side entrance, where the Taxi's hang out).

Maybe there set up is typical of Pet shops in Thailand, but the animals dont look to be comfortable or in good condition (im not a vet, so of course cant make a diagnosis, but they dont look too good).

Often the same animals are in there week after week, month after month even, inside small cages, with nothing soft to sit or sleep on, nothing to play with, and in areas with no visible ventilation/fresh air. The smell inside the shops is pretty strong from the detergent they use (bleach?). Its hard to walk/stay in there, so i wonder how this affects an animals respiratory system. The shops are air con and the doors are often closed. The animals look bored and listless. I often see what looks like eye infections too.

A few nights ago i went to check out if the animals stayed there at night, and they do. One shop had a fan on, but air con off. The other shops had air con on.

I would like to know if this is normal for Thailand, or if something can be done about it. (Obviously if normal, there is really nothing i can do... right?) If not normal then does anyone know who i can contact? I dont wish to put anyone out of business! I just would like them to at least re-evaluate how the animals are housed.

I dont mean to sound like someone who is sitting on my backside pointing out what is wrong and doing sod all about it..but i cant see what i can do about it. So, im asking advice. If its a lost cause, then I will just sadly move on. But if not, indicators about what i can do, would be great. Just please dont suggest i go buy them all!

I can get some photos also if people wish to see where i mean and what im talking about.

Thanks!

[st11x]

I have seen them too and unfortunately, I think that is how it is generally. If you had seen the market close to airport plaza, it would be more revolting. Other than not giving them your business, I doubt there is much you can do about it except to start a similar business that "shows" them the right way and if/when you are successful, they will start to copy your model.

[elektrified]

I've made the same observations as you. It's a very sad situation. The shop at the far end (closest to Thanon Huay Kaew) is the worst of the lot.

[Nash]

The other shops had air con on.

Then the pets were being treated better than the vast majority of Thai PEOPLE... most of which either don't have air con (by choice) or else only use it during the hottest part of the day.

I would like to know if this is normal for Thailand, or if something can be done about it. (Obviously if normal, there is really nothing i can do... right?) If not normal then does anyone know who i can contact? I dont wish to put anyone out of business! I just would like them to at least re-evaluate how the animals are housed.

Thanks!

Hahaha... someone to report it to? Thai people are sane in a way that Westerners are not. They put the welfare of people far above the welfare of animals. Any complaints you make to Thai authoraties would certainly fall on deaf ears as they have plenty of work to do helping Thai PEOPLE.

If you would like to take care of pets, perhaps you should return to your home country, where the standard of living is so high that the only thing left to worry about is if your pet is "comfy-wumphy" or not.

I don't mean to be crass, but it seems like if you want to do some volunteer work here, there are much more productive ways your time can be spent helping people...

That said, if you really want to take care some pets, there are plenty of local stray animals that are much worse off than their furry friends getting regular meals, Air Conditioned accommodation and plenty of attention in a pet shop. Your nearest temple is always accepting donations of food for the stray dogs they take care of. If you run into language barrier problems, many of the monks at Wat Suan Dok (on sutthep road behind CMU) speak English well.

[freddy123]

Maybe you could take an approach the Thais might recognise... Buy a fake official looking badge, slap it on their counter and tell them your from the International RSPCA. Tell them that your gonna take photos today, and then come back in a week and if nothings changed for the better your gonna start fineing them 1000B a day.

If your convincing enough they may even try to bribe you, then you could use that to feed the temple dogs or another animal welfare program. At least you would get their attention that some people think its not ok to get animals like that.

Btw do buddist believe in reincarnation? Maybe you could take that approach if they do.

[Nash]

Maybe you could take an approach the Thais might recognise... Buy a fake official looking badge, slap it on their counter and tell them your from the International RSPCA. Tell them that your gonna take photos today, and then come back in a week and if nothings changed for the better your gonna start fineing them 1000B a day.

If your convincing enough they may even try to bribe you, then you could use that to feed the temple dogs or another animal welfare program. At least you would get their attention that some people think its not ok to get animals like that.

Btw do buddist believe in reincarnation? Maybe you could take that approach if they do.

If they believe that, tell them I have a bridge in Brooklyn available for purchase...

[Priceless]

The other shops had air con on.

Then the pets were being treated better than the vast majority of Thai PEOPLE... most of which either don't have air con (by choice) or else only use it during the hottest part of the day.

I would like to know if this is normal for Thailand, or if something can be done about it. (Obviously if normal, there is really nothing i can do... right?) If not normal then does anyone know who i can contact? I dont wish to put anyone out of business! I just would like them to at least re-evaluate how the animals are housed.

Thanks!

Hahaha... someone to report it to? Thai people are sane in a way that Westerners are not. They put the welfare of people far above the welfare of animals. Any complaints you make to Thai authoraties would certainly fall on deaf ears as they have plenty of work to do helping Thai PEOPLE.

If you would like to take care of pets, perhaps you should return to your home country, where the standard of living is so high that the only thing left to worry about is if your pet is "comfy-wumphy" or not.

I don't mean to be crass, but it seems like if you want to do some volunteer work here, there are much more productive ways your time can be spent helping people...

That said, if you really want to take care some pets, there are plenty of local stray animals that are much worse off than their furry friends getting regular meals, Air Conditioned accommodation and plenty of attention in a pet shop. Your nearest temple is always accepting donations of food for the stray dogs they take care of. If you run into language barrier problems, many of the monks at Wat Suan Dok (on sutthep road behind CMU) speak English well.

I happen to know that eek is already supporting the local temple Wat Pa Pao that takes care of cats

Apart from that, I'm afraid that there isn't much one can do about places that mistreat animals I have chosen to buy all my pet supplies from "Pet Mart" on Canal Road (near the Night Safari) because they do not sell any animals at all, just food and other supplies plus they do dog grooming. This, and supporting the same temple eek supports, are the ways I've chosen to support animal welfare in Chiang Mai. There are of course also a couple of dog shelters that one can support (Care for Dogs and Lanna Dog Rescue spring to mind).

/ Priceless

Edited August 7, 2009 by Priceless

[eek]

The other shops had air con on.

Then the pets were being treated better than the vast majority of Thai PEOPLE... most of which either don't have air con (by choice) or else only use it during the hottest part of the day.

I would like to know if this is normal for Thailand, or if something can be done about it. (Obviously if normal, there is really nothing i can do... right?) If not normal then does anyone know who i can contact? I dont wish to put anyone out of business! I just would like them to at least re-evaluate how the animals are housed.

Thanks!

Hahaha... someone to report it to? Thai people are sane in a way that Westerners are not. They put the welfare of people far above the welfare of animals. Any complaints you make to Thai authoraties would certainly fall on deaf ears as they have plenty of work to do helping Thai PEOPLE.

If you would like to take care of pets, perhaps you should return to your home country, where the standard of living is so high that the only thing left to worry about is if your pet is "comfy-wumphy" or not.

I don't mean to be crass, but it seems like if you want to do some volunteer work here, there are much more productive ways your time can be spent helping people...

That said, if you really want to take care some pets, there are plenty of local stray animals that are much worse off than their furry friends getting regular meals, Air Conditioned accommodation and plenty of attention in a pet shop. Your nearest temple is always accepting donations of food for the stray dogs they take care of. If you run into language barrier problems, many of the monks at Wat Suan Dok (on sutthep road behind CMU) speak English well.

I think you certainly did mean to be crass. You have absolutely no idea what i do or dont do regarding how i help others or the environment globally, nationally or locally. You have made a lot of presumptions and i dont need to justify myself. Get off your soap box please. Your attitude stinks and is unhelpful.

Btw, i also dont need to go to a Temple where they speak English well. My Thai is good enough. No need to be so condescending. But i guess you are one of the "go back to your own country" brigade (where i havent lived permanently in since i dont know how many years..). Some people...

[brycat]

Oooh ahh- Eek 1/ Crass poster 0

Thought that response was a bit harsh and uncalled for. Your post was sincere, Eek. I don't know why anyone would try to lay into you, but then again, you pretty much said it all in your response.....

Wish I could offer some advice. I've seen the shops you're talking about. It always pulls at my heart a bit. I love animals but have to admit I've been a little desensitized since living in Thailand. I've seen a lot of animals in really poor condition here. I, unfortunately, have done nothing about it.

Good for you. You're trying to make a difference. Keep up the footwork. It's nice to see someone observing something that makes them feel uncomfortable then trying to figure a way to make it better. A lot of people just complain and do nothing, or they just make themselves feel better by ripping into others when they have the chance!

[eek]

I did think it might be a lost cause to be honest, but always worth a shot. I think often just bringing something up for discussion is worth the effort, in the hope that there is an answer...and, Ive often found discussions on this board have led to some good things. Attempting to do small things is better than waffling on about the bigger things, then doing nothing (which i have found out that many people seem to do). I just re-read Nash's reply, and i realise in that last paragraph he wasnt taking a pot shot at me, was actually trying to be helpful, so my going on about Temples and speaking Thai etc wasnt necessary, but by then i was seeing red and didnt think straight. Silly me! But, i am not quite convinced that the animals in the Temple have a worse life than the animals in the pet shop. They may not have a healthy diet, or long life, but its likely better to have life outdoors doing things that entertain them. The only thing good about the pet shop is that hopefully the animals will get housed in a good home.

Anyway, seeing as it seems to be normal practice here, I guess its one of those things that you have to become immune to.

One last thing addressed to Nash. If you would like to bring up any subject regarding human rights, charitable projects, etc, (particularly those you have personal experience and/or are personally involved with), I would be most happy to read about that, and, where possible, get involved. Regards.

[catmac]

How do you do it, Eek?

First you have the cheek to come on TV and show some compassion and a desire to help when you see animals in a distressing situation, and then you show compassion to a total misfit who slags you off!

Yes, indeed, it's Eek 1, Nash 0!

[sassienie]

The maltreatment of these animals seems to be general practise in so-called pet shops and in markets all over Thailand.

I have seen puppies kept in tiny cages with no soft floor supports, only wire and no food or water in the cages.

The puppies appear to be in a deplorable state, where these animals are only considered as a product on sale for profit.

It’s the same scenario for rabbits, cats, hamsters, birds, fish and turtles.

I have often looked in these shops and walked away feeling distressed and upset.

Doubt whether in Thailand if there is any sort of legal action that could be taken against the proprietors of these shops.

In my case I would never purchase or part with my money in any of these shops and that is really the most we can do as our protest against this disgusting trade.

And as for those who have told posters to go back to their own countries, where they consider the welfare of animals as a higher priority to people, well my message is: go and take some further education, because you are an idiot.

Edited August 9, 2009 by sassienie

[IanForbes]

As much as I dislike the street dogs, I like those small cages for dogs even less. However, some breeds do better in cages than others. I saw those poor creatures locked up for hours in those pet stalls and it bothers me. I walk right by there when I go to Rimping market near the airport.

[Nienke]

I always wonder what a dog would prefer: having a hard time to find sufficient food (often) resulting in malnutrition and disease but having the freedom to interact with other dogs and play and run, or being stuck in a little cage 24/7 with two meals a day (which is insufficient for puppies) no proper socialization and no opportunity to exercise, which often results in life-time fear for other dogs and can result in all sorts of skeleton problems.

And for those who think that it is so much better in the west, please, go and have a look in the many shelters that exist there.

Many people concentrate primarily on the physical health of the (pet) animal, but the mental health is as important as the physical one.

Many pet dogs (around the world) miss sufficient mental stimulation, many stray do not have a good physical health.

[eek]

I have wondered that myself too Nienke. I imagine if anyone here were to have an informed feel about that, it would be you. The animals in the pet shop are like zombies. I do go in there or to the window, just to have a little play with them. For some though, its hard to get them to even respond. Look right through me.

Anyway, thanks for the responses guys.

[Greenside]

I always wonder what a dog would prefer: having a hard time to find sufficient food (often) resulting in malnutrition and disease but having the freedom to interact with other dogs and play and run, or being stuck in a little cage 24/7 with two meals a day (which is insufficient for puppies) no proper socialization and no opportunity to exercise, which often results in life-time fear for other dogs and can result in all sorts of skeleton problems.

And for those who think that it is so much better in the west, please, go and have a look in the many shelters that exist there.

Many people concentrate primarily on the physical health of the (pet) animal, but the mental health is as important as the physical one.

Many pet dogs (around the world) miss sufficient mental stimulation, many stray do not have a good physical health.

.....and it's so difficult getting them motivated to even help themselves.

More silly stuff here

[Ulysses G.]

And as for those who have told posters to go back to their own countries, where they consider the welfare of animals as a higher priority to people, well my message is: go and take some further education, because you are an idiot.

Don't buy pets. Take in animals with no owner. You will be paid back with their love.

[IanForbes]

I always wonder what a dog would prefer: having a hard time to find sufficient food (often) resulting in malnutrition and disease but having the freedom to interact with other dogs and play and run, or being stuck in a little cage 24/7 with two meals a day (which is insufficient for puppies) no proper socialization and no opportunity to exercise, which often results in life-time fear for other dogs and can result in all sorts of skeleton problems.

And for those who think that it is so much better in the west, please, go and have a look in the many shelters that exist there.

Many people concentrate primarily on the physical health of the (pet) animal, but the mental health is as important as the physical one.

Many pet dogs (around the world) miss sufficient mental stimulation, many stray do not have a good physical health.

Very true, Nienke. But, many breeds are different in what degree of human interaction they need. Some working breeds hardly need any interaction at all, whereas a breed like the Golden retriever is almost human in its action. A Golden will go nuts if left alone too long.

Some Alaskan sled dogs don't want any interaction with humans other than pulling the sled. English pointers do quite well in pens, whereas many of the toy dogs don't.

There is a street dog near where I go to eat. A young Thai boy seems to have adopted it and I often see the boy stroking the dog for hours while the dog just lies there. Whenever I see them together I give the boy 50 baht for himself or food for the dog.

[Nienke]

Very true, Nienke. But, many breeds are different in what degree of human interaction they need. Some working breeds hardly need any interaction at all, whereas a breed like the Golden retriever is almost human in its action. A Golden will go nuts if left alone too long.

Some Alaskan sled dogs don't want any interaction with humans other than pulling the sled. English pointers do quite well in pens, whereas many of the toy dogs don't.

There is a street dog near where I go to eat. A young Thai boy seems to have adopted it and I often see the boy stroking the dog for hours while the dog just lies there. Whenever I see them together I give the boy 50 baht for himself or food for the dog.

That there are differences between breeds is certainly true, depending on what they were bred for in the early days. However, at the kennel I notice it more in breeds like the boxer, bull terrier and pitbulls that, almost without exception, really need extra attention. Huskies often can't stay alone, but do well with a doggy companion. The other breeds, including the toy breeds and Thaix ones, often do fine when boarded. But I did have Goldens, some toy dogs and Thai mixes (and some other breeds) that showed more dependency on human contact.

This is often caused more by how the dog is raised from puppyhood on, which often includes lack of socialization with other dogs and environments other than the owners house and garden, and a bond between owner/s and dog where the dog depends too much on his owner for his sense of security. These dogs (can) experience separation anxiety in a more or lesser extent. Most of them, however, will improve within a few days with the help of doggy companions and some extra attention. However, there are exceptions and I usually inform the owners about it.

And coming back to my remark about what a dog would prefer; concerning exercise and mental stimulation many strays are often better off than the pet shop dogs. But if pet shop dogs are better off concerning their physical health, I often doubt that. Sure, when confined they are less prone to get venereal diseases, accidents, etc. But certainly for the puppies being confined for 24/7 in a small area and on only two meals of crap dog food isn't very good for their fast-growing bones and disastrous for their mental development.

Either way, being a stray or a pet shop dog, it's crap.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Nienke

[elektrified]

I needed to take the shortcut through the KSK underground parking lot this evening and happened to walk right past this row of shops. Hadn't walked past there in a year or so. What I saw was shocking. I could see two cages of dogs that had no water bowls inside, or bottles attached to the outside of the cages at all. I could see a full bottle of water sitting next to one cage where someone forgot to attach it to the cage before leaving. There was no fans on at all. A bit further down was another 2 cages with Golden Retriever puppies in them. By 19:00 they had both already drank all the water in those little bottles. No fans either. Leaving those animals without water and fans for at least 14-15 hours until they open again at 10:00 or so the next day is cruel. I know there is nothing that can be done but it sure made me angry to see that.

[Beetlejuice]

And as for those who have told posters to go back to their own countries, where they consider the welfare of animals as a higher priority to people, well my message is: go and take some further education, because you are an idiot.

Don't buy pets. Take in animals with no owner. You will be paid back with their love.

So true UG. That is exactly what the missies and me did and never looked back.

Heart breaking isn’t it? To see these animals kept in such a way.

I have witnessed the same thing in local markets and those back street excuses for pet stores.

The problem is that these poor animals have been so mistreated for such long periods that if you do buy one from a dealer the pet is usually half dead before you get it home. In many cases the animals never recover from their lack of care and abuse and often die soon after purchase no matter how hard you try to save them, even way passed any medical treatments by the vets. This is what happened to us a long time ago when we bought a dog from a market.

Best to avoid these places and hope they go out of business. Besides that, not much else we can do in Thailand without proper law enforcements or animal rescue organisations to help.