Hostility Towards Farang Women?

[Sir Burr]

I always hold open doors  and carry things for girls, I have never recived abuse for it. Maybe you are doing it in a condesending way, with myself it is just a courtesy and practical as I am a strapping fella and I can lift eavy fings. Chivalry is not in conflict with feminism, I suppose I have never been acused of chauvanism because I am not: and have as many female mates as male ones. Women are my equal and I treat them as such, Thats why I would feel uncomfortable in a relationship that was not built on equality

Erm....how do you open a door for a complete stranger condescendingly????

[kat]

Here's to you Shola - and every other person on this thread who can handle talking, arguing, debating, loving, kissing, making love to, and yes, hating real, grown-up women with unprogrammable minds.

Wish I could find the icon that pours a glass of Guinness Just spend 10 minutes looking for it.

[Boo]

Wish I could find the icon that pours a glass of Guinness  Just spend 10 minutes looking for it.

I'll ask darknight to add one for next time Great post kat, very eloquant

[Shola]

I always hold open doors  and carry things for girls, I have never recived abuse for it. Maybe you are doing it in a condesending way, with myself it is just a courtesy and practical as I am a strapping fella and I can lift eavy fings. Chivalry is not in conflict with feminism, I suppose I have never been acused of chauvanism because I am not: and have as many female mates as male ones. Women are my equal and I treat them as such, Thats why I would feel uncomfortable in a relationship that was not built on equality

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Erm....how do you open a door for a complete stranger condescendingly????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps you just look far too superior in your bright shiny armour Sir Burr?

[Sir Burr]

I always hold open doors  and carry things for girls, I have never recived abuse for it. Maybe you are doing it in a condesending way, with myself it is just a courtesy and practical as I am a strapping fella and I can lift eavy fings. Chivalry is not in conflict with feminism, I suppose I have never been acused of chauvanism because I am not: and have as many female mates as male ones. Women are my equal and I treat them as such, Thats why I would feel uncomfortable in a relationship that was not built on equality

Erm....how do you open a door for a complete stranger condescendingly????

Perhaps you just look far too superior in your bright shiny armour Sir Burr?

Da.mn! Have told my squire a thousand times to go easy with the Brasso!

[Vit42]

As for feminism, it doesn't really exist here (sorry Boo).  Yes, there are empowerment agendas, but it is much different than the West.  If you study some of the material and dialogues from the big women's orgs here, they emphasize handling men with velvet gloves and nudging, rather than "Western" confrontation.  By the way, most MPs have mia nois and defend this as a "right".    Men can seek a divorce on the grounds of infidelity, but women cannot.  Good luck with changing things for women by first seeking the approval of unquestioned male privilege    But hey, the smile is real pretty.

*edit

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For the most parts i agree with your post kat, however, the point of contention i have is through my experience with very powerful women role models in thailand. Albeit, feminism is not an active or upfront part of society, i believe there's a lot of changes happening behind the scenes.

I know countless thai women who have been given the "burden" of heading the household or being the business leader due to the fact that the men they were married to have died. The fact that thai men do frequent prostitutes and have unprotected sex, like to drink and drive, and do all sorts of things that lead to their early demise has opened up the opportunity for these surviving spouses to take the reigns.

I know this to be a fact from my mother, my aunt, and so many of my friends. I'm quite amazed by the ability of these women to persever and the power that they hold in thai society. It's still far from being equal to men and these women aren't exactly announcing themselves to the world but there is a definite change happening. These women are affecting the socio-economic-political environment not just with velvet gloves but with intelligent management and leadership capabilities.

[aaaaaa]

........You can't deny that this is hostility.  Period. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

.... the "modern" material-girl ain't the same. Forget about traditional values etc...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

However, he should realise that the REAL problem is not the women themselves but the society and values they have been raised with. It ain't anyones fault as to the way they are - we're all just a product of our environemt.

The difference IMHO is that some people realise the shortcomings of western society (not women or feminism) and eschew those values and some people don't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think these few guys hit the point(s) here.

1) hostility - nobody would be happy with it - neither man nor woman.

2) modern material, modern "values" - well, it is a big separate topic, but obviously many things have changed. some - to better, some to worse. although again from different points of view it'd be argued too.

3) the origin of problems in society - that is I think the main issue. and it is also separate subject and VERY HUGE. and one which we can not change by discussing it here - except may be in our own lives. like peter said here - if we try to realise these things and be aware of them.

Sad really, something good has definitely gone with regard to male/female relationships.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, I agree with that. this is a fact. but then again - it has a deeper roots. and also - that something good has gone not only from male/female relations, but kids/parents and many other levels / dimentions of society. and all of them inter-related.

It seems that some guys at least have truly embraced equality of the sexes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ha ! this point I like ! yeah - this is just one of examples of "side-effects" of such "equality"

I'd say: equalty was and even IS granted to all human beings (disregarding gender, skin color, race, karma, whatever) by default from the moment they enter this world and remain till we leave it - because we are in the same position in both those situations. spiritually we all are equal. all the other conditioning start later on and go on during one's life time. they may be: social, racial, economical, gender etc. etc. created by humans, and I'd add here - by both male an female, NOT ONLY by males. so, we can't and must not blame disbalance in this equalty to ONLY any particular person or group or people - be it males or females or Western / Eastern etc. I think the best thing we can do - to reflect all these things upon ourselves and act on it, apply to our own lives. that much we can make some piece of change to modern reality of things.

otherwise, we'll go nowhere.

[aaaaaa]

Kat made nice post although self-admitedly RUSHED (I'd say that not just "a bit" - but quite) - thanks anyway.

however you've taken few things I've mentioned out of context and made a bit husty comments, although nothing disrespectfull or flaming. I'll leave it at that, since my post wasn't addressed to you, but mainly to Boo and BY - and seems like both of them were satisfied with what I've said - I assume they understood me properly.

many things are arguable and relative you said. I think we don't need to discuss them here, otherwise this thread will go into many other completely different directions.

I think I'd like to point out - that at least me didn't try to win - as you say THEY . who? as I saw - most of people in this thread were simply expressing their opinions.

They are incensed that the safe proscribed roles of generations past no longer assure that they will "win" every argument.

if you wanna win - alright, I'd surrender and consider my defeat, if it comes to this. although I never think about - who win. I'd rather agree with Socratus when he was flattered that he never lose in argument (correct me anyone for accuracy of this quote) : "To argue with Socratus is not a big deal; but we never can win against truth." orsomething like that. so, for me it is not a Q who win - you or me, especially since it is simply talk in "virtual space" and you are not my wife who may leave me if she get INDIGNANT nor deadly enemy who may kill me....

another thing is - PLEASE don't try to emphasise intellectual superiority, coz it is not an issue here and it rather sounds like you trying to get recognised as intellectually more superior to some or most men (or all the people) here. perhaps you are more superior than me, I don't mind - but so what? there'll always be someone out there more superiorwe are not superior nor inferior - we are what we are. humbleness isn't against equalty or humanism/ feminism. being humble - is to know one's position (including - towards others) and act upon it - neither let other belittle one self or undermine one's position nor trying to do same to others, in such a way establishing oneself on the cost of others. so, what I'm trying to say is - no need for confrontations as the following:

"Since they can't accept the fact that women are no longer raised to defer on almost everything, or to suppress much of her character because it does not fit into approved gender roles, they resort to calling us "masculine". "

you make a very very very big assumption here ! as well as huge generalisation. you do not refer to any particular REAL example for making such a statement and even if you would / could - still it doesn't mean that all the men who speek about masculinity. I for one didn't mention anything like that at all - and as I recall (and gone trhu all the posts above once more) - I was the firt if not the only one who raised this point about masculinity and feminity.

by masculinity and feminity - I bet I understand same things as you do , since you are well educated and perhaps more intellectual than me. if not - simply refer to meanings of these words from the plenty of dictionaries. if you reject those meaning as male-made concepts - then perhaps you can reject almost 99% of everything and anything anone can ever say - coz most of things can be branded in the same way :

And what exactly is "femininity"? Much of it is a cultural, man-made construction

I don't want to go into much details, but masculine characteristics are normally - agressiveness, tendency to dominate, "survival of fittest" etc. oh yeah - and hostility that guy's mentioned, sbaker.

BUT somehow youd didn't address his point, well made by the way, not even admited it being true - about hostility being wrong. instead you made statements as:

For many men who spout the same arguments, the real issue is not femininity, it's indignance. They are incensed that the safe proscribed roles of generations past no longer assure that they will "win" every argument.

I can say that you are wrong - because me , who raised point about feminity, was writing the post without being indignant, and never actually been at any woman - Western or Eastern. and neither do have problems with any of them because of feminity/ masculinity things. neither I am american or western if it comes to this. so, can easily say that you generalise, and base lot of conclusions based on that. if you refered to sbaker, you can ask him does he feel indignant - for me it appears from his posts he isn't. and if you wanna know - I am nice too - hold doors, carry bags, give place to sit in the transport etc. for ladies, as I was tought by my mom.

so, I'd say - let's be cool, not hostile and confronting each other. that's I beilieve what was BY's first post in this thread is all about as well as Sbakers - and mine BTW. if you take it otherwise - then perhaps you have some problem with being indignant. coz seems like you've taken it almost, if not very personal :

Don't worry, we won't miss you either. As far as I'm concerned, the likes of you clear out the gene pool at home.

even almost made attempt to insult ! "the likes of you" - is not fair way to talk to anyone but rather almost argumantum ad hominem, especially to a person who never said anything bad to you personally. he only said - he doesn't like hostility. man made A POINT - so, just address that point, not a person - tat would be "analytical, intellectual, rational arguments" ! otherwise "the likes of you" - isn't for neither male or female or whoever.

and perhaps - you better take time and read more attentively what people try to say, and then - take time to make NOT rushed respond. TRY TO UNDERSTAND _ DON'T TRY TO MISUNDERSTAND - which has nothing to do neither with gender nor with person who exprsses the point.

my best respectfull (sincerely!) regards to Kat and all other ppl here

[BabaYaga]

Well, if anyone wanted to be assured that there were more good 'normal' people among the ex-pats in Bkk than 'moronic pigs', I'm sure this forum wouldn't dissapoint. I can't tell you how happy I am that the vast majority of posts on this subject are positive.

We touched on the subject of chivalry, which reminded me of what I say to the few militant feminists I meet:

It's true that women are expected to do certain things and behave in certain ways, but being a women comes in handy once in a while, too. Men will almost always pump the gas, shovel the sidewalk, take out the garbage and hook up the tv to the vcr, to name a few. There are other little things, and that's of course in addition to lifting heavy things and occasionally opening doors. I can do these things, I do them all the time. But they're things that most men I know don't mind doing for me without me having to ask.

Once in a while it's an advantage having the option of being silent and inconspicuous. Once in a while it's an advantage that no one expects a woman to fight, that very few people would hit a woman in public and that every man present would help her in such a situation. And speaking for myself, I've had situations when I've been broke, or lost, or hungry, on the streets or in trouble, and being a skinny little blonde girl has come in very handy. I NEVER use these little advantages unless i have to, but I know they're there, and I'm grateful for them. I keep an eye out for things like this to assure myself that things aren't as bad as they seem sometimes.

And things are bad sometimes, I don't think anyone's denying that. But I for one, am not trying to point the finger at anyone in particular. Kat, your letter was just perfect, thank you so so much. I understand what you mean about traditional folks having a problem with women being indignant - a lot of the time when I point out flagrantly chauvenistic things, I'm met with outright hostility and anger, and it's often not so much in opposition to what I'm saying than the fact that I would dare to say it. It's ironic that the basic point I usually end up rallying againt is that women who speak their mind are hostile towards men.

In that spirit, here's a joke for you (hope you like it):

Q: how many angry feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

A: (shouted indignantly) THAT'S NOT FUNNY!

[peterzxr]

Wow great posts Baba and aaaaaa - nicely summed up the thread so far.

Must also say one of the best threads I've read /posted to due to the largey adult way in which it's been dealt with - thanks guys and gals, keep it up

Edited March 9, 2005 by peterzxr

[aaaaaa]

I think credit goes more to many other ppl here - Boo and Kat and Dennis. sorry, can't remember many other names. ah, yeah - Sir for ex.

[peterzxr]

I think credit goes more to many other ppl here - Boo and Kat and Dennis. sorry, can't remember many other names. ah, yeah - Sir for ex.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right of course but really just wanted to say I enjoyed myself in this string so far - that's all

[kat]

[right-->

QUOTE(Sir Burr @ 2005-03-09 00:00:41

Perhaps you just look far too superior in your bright shiny armour Sir Burr?

[right)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right]

Da.mn! Have told my squire a thousand times to go easy with the Brasso!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good one!

For the most parts i agree with your post kat, however, the point of contention i have is through my experience with very powerful women role models in thailand. Albeit, feminism is not an active or upfront part of society, i believe there's a lot of changes happening behind the scenes.

I know countless thai women who have been given the "burden" of heading the household or being the business leader due to the fact that the men they were married to have died. The fact that thai men do frequent prostitutes and have unprotected sex, like to drink and drive, and do all sorts of things that lead to their early demise has opened up the opportunity for these surviving spouses to take the reigns.

I know this to be a fact from my mother, my aunt, and so many of my friends. I'm quite amazed by the ability of these women to persever and the power that they hold in thai society. It's still far from being equal to men and these women aren't exactly announcing themselves to the world but there is a definite change happening. These women are affecting the socio-economic-political environment not just with velvet gloves but with intelligent management and leadership capabilities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vit you raise some good points, and I have to agree with you, that I often don't give the changes that are happening here enough credit. However, I am well aware of them, because I have been carefully following issues of gender and sexual violence in SEA for more than 2 years now. The struggles are out there, but they take a different form than in the West (i.e. - challenges through Buddhism and the female monk who is trying to ordain more women, the Senator from Issan who challenged a Northern temple for not admitting women, female senators and powerful women who do challenge the unquestioned male privileges of powerful men, and the recent publicized case of a former Thai politician who raped and molested several underaged girls). There are definitely women out there who are trying and care about this issue.

HOWEVER, there are huge rifts in the religous order regarding many of these issues, the senator from Issan was threatened with death and impeachment and forced to apologize, MPs and university professors still get off with a slap on the wrist from everything to spousal abuse to murder, and let's see if the Chaladerm actually does spend time in prision - I mean, the guy's been out on bail now for years.

And in terms of the velvet gloves and nudges, I'm sorry but I am going to have to stand by that statement. This has been stated almost verbatim by the oldest and most influential Thai women's organizations when they compare themselves to Western feminists. All you have to do is read the recent history of some of these dialogues and events. I'll be happy to share resources with you. This is an ongoing conversation however, and I don't have the time to fully address it here.

As for the powerful women in Thai society, well yes, there have always been powerful women in every society at all times, and that includes Asia. However, it is still primarily a clannish or family phenemenon here in Asia, where the power derives from her proximity to powerful men, such as her father, husband, or brother. Of course there are exceptions of self-made powerful women in Asia, but they are the exception to the rule, especially when power is combined with wealth. You stated as much yourself, when you talked about inheriting power. But all you need to do is look around at the powerful women in politics, or those who have become PMs. All daughters, wives, or widows.

Kat made nice post although self-admitedly RUSHED (I'd say that not just "a bit" - but quite) - thanks anyway.

however you've taken few things I've mentioned out of context and made a bit husty comments, although nothing disrespectfull or flaming. I'll leave it at that, since my post wasn't addressed to you, but mainly to Boo and BY - and seems like both of them were satisfied with what I've said - I assume they understood me properly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

aaaaaa, I wasn't even thinking about your post in mine. In fact, I didn't even remember your post until you addressed me in yours. The sentiments I addressed have been raised by others on the thread, and so often on TV and here in Thailand, that it is almost like an anthem. It is too bad that you then do the same old condescending magic trick, of making all other preceeding combative comments disappear except for my response to them. The usual course here.

Anyway, no hard feelings.

edited

Edited March 9, 2005 by kat

[Polly]

Sbaker complains about women's hostility to men in a very hostile to women post. You are the hostile one mate!

[Daddy's girl]

lol, so someone actually has to go and live in another country to find a 'partner' they like?????

It's funny to see women being talked about as a commodity as if you go to go and live in another country to drive a more comfortable car or live in a warmer climate

bless

[sbaker8688]

In a nutshell, to the American man who blames feminism for the "demise" of American women, or the lack of "feminine" women, it boils down to laws, economic opportunities, education, and equality.

Assuming this was directed at me, I have never mentioned anything about femininity. People (not necessarily you) keep addressing things that I never said, and setting up straw men to argue with. Several posts kept asking me why I couldn't "handle" a woman who expressed an opinion, when I never issued one single complaint of a woman expressing an opinion to me in any of my posts.

At any rate, I did not complain about, and do not complain about, lack of femininity in the west. I complained about, and continue to complain about, western (particularly American) women's hostility to men. Hostility like yours. Sometimes overt. Sometimes covert. Always there. Always lurking. Always resenting men. Always holding men responsible for some perceived "injustice." Always out on some mission to correct said perceived "injustice."

And even in America, these values are not a complete realization.

How much more of a "realization" do you want?

Women still make about 63 cents to the dollar of men (and yes, that is factoring years lost to child-rearing).

You don't know what women make to men. You think you do. But you don't. Nobody knows. You pull out one study conducted by feminists, and I can pull out another.

And even if you *do* know that "women make 63 cents to the dollar of men" (and you don't) - you still don't know why. Is it because many men choose higher-paying professions in larger numbers than women? Because they certainly do. Is it because of any of a number of other socio-economic factors?

Outsourcing is all the rage in America right now. Labor is cheap in Asia. So factories move overseas, technology jobs are outsourced in droves, as well as call centers and everything else you can think of. Furthermore, illegal Mexican immigration is allowed to continue in an ever-increasing torrent. All of this because of the pursuit of one thing and one thing only: cheap labor. Corporate profits and the bottom line are all that matters. Period. Yet, somehow, in this reality where a corporation would close a factory or an office and fire tens of thousands of it's own citizens in order to outsource the work - all to make a &lt;deleted&gt;' buck - you and other feminists would have us believe that corporations wish to hire men to do work for them at almost twice the price of a woman. You aren't living in the real world. You're living in your made-up world of feminist jihad against men, and society in general. It's culture war.

They are incensed that the safe proscribed roles of generations past no longer assure that they will "win" every argument.

Here's that "argument" thing again. I do not have, and never have had, a problem with a woman arguing with me over something. Neither have I ever had an issue with a woman expressing an opinion. I have an issue with hostility towards me, and my sex. In essense, I have an issue with female "sexism." How's that?

To the American gent out there who said he knows everything about Thailand, here's a bit of advice for you:

Never said "I know everything about Thailand." Said "I have it all figured out." But that wasn't in reference to Thailand as country. It was in reference to the fact that eastern women (including Thai women) are far superior and much more desirable, in my opinion, than their western counterparts. That's what I have "all figured out."

American women are protected by the law/Thai women have absolutely no protection....

In America, it is illegal to discriminate according to race....

Geez... having perpetrated a culture war upon the west, must western feminists now make war upon the east too? Are there no limits to their hostility and hate and criticism of anything and everything? Must they remake the whole frigging planet over to suit themselves? Sheesh!

"justice":  Thailand is the land with the highest number of penis reattachment surgeries in the world.

Oh, that's just lovely. Now I'm talking to Lorena Bobbit? Thanks for reminding me why I'm getting the hel1 out.!

Good luck in paradise.  Don't worry, we won't miss you either.  As far as I'm concerned, the likes of you clear out the gene pool at home.

Never said it was paradise. But at any rate, I can promise you that I am all too happy to relieve your local gene pool of my genes. In fact, I'm ecstatic over the prospect.

[Boo]

QUOTE(kat @ 2005-03-08 11:40:54)

"justice":  Thailand is the land with the highest number of penis reattachment surgeries in the world.

Oh, that's just lovely. Now I'm talking to Lorena Bobbit? Thanks for reminding me why I'm getting the hel1 out.!

Err actually it's what your getting into, if you know so much about thailand & have it all figured out then you must be aware that thai women if pushed too far, have a tendancy to cut it off & feed it to the ducks Enjoy your stay

[Boo]

fact is sbaker8688, you chose to post a hateful diatribe on a female forum & now seem incensed that we have the audacity to disagree with you.

You have your opinion, we have ours, but your initial post was quite laughable in your justifications as to why you were coming to thailand & if you had just been honest, as others have been, & said it was because you preferred the company of thai women & their attitude to life or only ever met thai women, thought they were more your taste etc, we would have welcomed you here as we have done with others.

As it is you claimed to not want to give offense & that you were a live & let live kind of guy which clearly isn't true if these are your true feelings on American/Western women. If they are your true feelings then just admit you don't like us & get the ###### off our forum.

[sbk]

I hate to break it to you but Thailand is one of the leading countries for penile reattachment, Thai surgeons are famous for their skills in reattaching penises. Lorena Bobbit (a central American woman, btw) was not a trendsettter, Thai women have been doing it for much longer. If you don't know that by now, you don't know much about Thailand.

As for your amazement at receiving hostility from women on this, a women's forum, shall I remind you exactly what you did say?

they have attitude, they are impossible to please, they are only out for themselves, they frequently have multiple mental, psychological, and other disorders, they are frequently bisexual, and they do not appreaciate you as a man.

Hmmm... seems pretty insulting to me. Especially as how I am an American woman who is neither impossible to please, nor am I mentally illl, and neither am I bisexual.

But then, you have the amazing nerve to go on and say

By the way, I mean no insult or disrespect towards you or any other woman.

I guess that is why you are a guy, cause it takes real balls to go and insult someone and then claim it isn't an insult!

To add another side to this discussion. I don't really consider myself a feminist, but a humanist. Some strange guy, quite a few years back, said, "Treat others as you wish to be treated" and somehow, I took that to heart. If I don't want to be insulted, I try not to insult. If I want respect, I try to respect others. If I want honesty, I am honest. Too many people expect to be treated the way they want to be treated but cannot or will not reciprocate. I believe people deserve to be treated in a decent, fair manner, and that if everyone treated others (and I don't mean just in personal relationships but in law as well) as they wish to be treated themselves there would be far less injustice in this world.

But then, I have always been a starry eyed idealist

[toastwars]

I always hold open doors  and carry things for girls, I have never recived abuse for it. Maybe you are doing it in a condesending way, with myself it is just a courtesy and practical as I am a strapping fella and I can lift eavy fings. Chivalry is not in conflict with feminism, I suppose I have never been acused of chauvanism because I am not: and have as many female mates as male ones. Women are my equal and I treat them as such, Thats why I would feel uncomfortable in a relationship that was not built on equality

Erm....how do you open a door for a complete stranger condescendingly????

a pat on the bum and calling her pettle or treasure...I hold the door open for the next person through, regardless of sex, as I said chivalry is not dead and not in conflict with feminism...I don't rush up to open doors just because a woman is coming through, I just hold it open for the next person...maybe you were leering or something? I dunno I wasn't there.

[sbaker8688]

Err actually it's what your getting into, if you know so much about thailand & have it all figured out then you must be aware that thai women if pushed too far, have a tendancy to cut it off & feed it to the ducks Enjoy your stay

YOU'VE GOTTA BE FRIGGING KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is crazy... the last time I was in Thailand, I was with my Thai girlfriend. She told me "You cheat... I cut off, and give to duck." I said "Why a duck?" and she said "Duck will eat anything. Anything."

I THOUGHT IT WAS A FRIGGING JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Terminator]

Oh why, oh why, do I love women with all the colors of the rainbow so much, as whereever you are, you always will have my respect.

I am so sorry in my failings to understand you, and I'm sure as h3ll, you are as well

[Boo]

no joke, do a couple of searchs in the news section, many many many stories about this

[britmaveric]

-ducks

-chickens

-penis attached to balloon

-tg runs off with penis

-tg flushes down loo

These are to name a few stories read about in Thailand!

Forgot to add the lad who had his todger sliced and then ran all the way to the hospital, but forgot to bring his severed member with him!

Edited March 9, 2005 by britmaveric

[sbk]

The balloon one always grossed me out, what if the balloon fell to the ground and some kid found it?

"Oooh, look mommy, a balloon! OH, whats this little shrivelled thing attached?"

Poor kid would have serious issues for the rest of his/her life!

Kinda wondered about the duck one tho, did anyone eat those ducks after that?

[sbaker8688]

fact is sbaker8688, you chose to post a hateful diatribe

I don't think that's "fact" at all.

What's wrong, can't handle a man's opinion without pulling out the tired old "hate" moniker? I can handle your opinion. Lord knows you've preached enough that women should be able to give one. Why can't I give mine?

What's wrong, can't handle frank and open and honest discussion?

& now seem incensed that we have the audacity to disagree with you.

I am not incensed at all, and I do not care that you disagree with me. In fact, I expected it. You don't think I thought you'd agree with me, do you?

You have your opinion, we have ours, but your initial post was quite laughable in your justifications as to why you were coming to thailand & if you had just been honest, as others have been

I don't mind you thinking that my opinion was laughable. But what I find laughable myself is that you don't think I was being honest. LOL. I was being quite honest, I can assure you.

, & said it was because you preferred the company of thai women & their attitude to life ... we would have welcomed you here as we have done with others.

In fact, I *did* say I preferred the company of Thai women - no two ways about it. But it has nothing to do with their attitude toward life, unless by that you mean their lack of hostility towards men (relatively speaking), and their lack of feminism (relatively speaking). In fact, if you really read what I said, you'd know that I also said that eastern european and Russian women were just peachy keen too. In other words, it doesn't have anything to do with some personal preference for Thai women, like it's some kind of fetish or something. In fact, it's not so much a preference for Thai women at all as it is an anti-preference for American women, and western women in general.

As it is you claimed to not want to give offense & that you were a live & let live kind of guy which clearly isn't true if these are your true feelings on American/Western women. If they are your true feelings then just admit you don't like us & get the ###### off our forum.

Awww... can't handle the opinion of a "strong independant man?" I wonder what would be said of me if I had said similar things to you on a forum? I'd be called a "sexist, cheuvenist pig," that's what would happen. I'd have been called "intolerant," that's what would have happened. I suppose we're dealing with a double standard here?

I'll let the other readers of this thread decide what's going on here.

[sbk]

I'll say it again, you claim to be not insulting or disrespectful. I will tell you now, I am insulted and feel disrespected. So, no matter what your intentions were, you have managed to be rude, insulting and disrespectful.

[Boo]

if you disagree with my posts you obviously have senility then as I am only reading what YOU posted & giving my opinion to it, but you don't like that do you

[Khun Larry]

I've noticed a common trend on some sites about Thailand, and that is that there seems to be an awful lot of open hostility towards western women. Am I imagining things, or are there a lot of ex-pats in BKK with serious issues about the fairer sex?

Don't get me wrong, I haven't seen anything offensive here. But another site I visited was overrun by chauvenistic &lt;deleted&gt; who did almost nothing but gloat about the 'subservient' women they were dating, and how much they hated western women - essentially for not being mindless f*ckdolls, which is what these guys thought women should be, apparently.

I don't want you to think I'm off on a huge femenist rant here, I'm just wondering what I'm in for. I'm moving to Thailand next month, what kind of people should i expect? What is the ratio of moronic pigs to normal people among the ex-pats in BKK? What kind of problems have you experienced?

Any information would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

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More man bashing.

Why hasn't this post been deleted by a MOD?

No class.

[sbk]

same reason sbaker8688's female bashing post hasn't been removed.

Equal opportunity bashing