Adsl Questions

[opalhort]

Hi,

I plan to get an ADSL (256/128kbps) connection from True at B 590.-/month but have a few questions:

1)

in the past their ads stated that only one PC can be connected but the latest ads in the BKK Post no longer make any mention of this condition.

we have two PCs on a peer to peer LAN. is this OK now?

2)

If I have an ADSL connection will I still be able to connect via dial-up to my regular ISPs?

Do I have to disconnect the ADSL or can I go on-line via dial-up even if ADSL is connected (Win XP)?

This is important during the transition period due to change of e-mail addresses.

I want to test the ADSL for at least 4-6 months before changing our long established e-mail addresses.

3)

some time ago I read in the BKK Post that the ADSL connections go through a proxi server run by the police department (---> censorship). Is this true or is it just a rumour?

regards

opalhort

[Highwayman]

I use the basic true ADSL that you intend getting.

I've only used dialup once since l got ADSL so l just swapped a couple of cables around. Same as what l do when l want to send a fax using the Windows XP fax.

I just tried now connecting with dialup while using ADSL and l got a error message saying "unable to detect a dial tone". Maybe there's a way around it but for me it's easy just to swap the cables.

About the e-mail. not sure l understand why you think you will need to test things for six months. I just use Yahoo! which is web based so anytime l move l still retain the same address. With my Yahoo! account l can download it to Outlook Express so it's easy to manage. I used to have an email account with True when using dialup but l didn't think much of it. Pretty clunky and l could never get the filters to stop spam. I haven't bothered getting a new account since l upgraded to ADSL.

The Thai government has a long list (20,000?) of websites that it would like to stop you viewing. No big deal, just use a proxy to get around that if you need to but it does slow things down a bit.

[sniffdog]

First, do not try to save on the package. The 256/128 is of course faster than dial up, but not a lot.

Spent a couple of hundred baht (600) more and get a 2.5mbs. Then you really feel the difference.

Especially if you download (and/or) upload it's essential that you have a really good connection. With 256/128 files like Nasa WorldWind (171 mb) wil still out of reach for you.

I am not sure if you can use a network now. Just ask them. Or look in the conditions (they are in English).

Yes, no problem to connect to both Dial Up and ADSL at the same time. I've tried it before. (I have a serial port 56K modem and a USB ADSL modem). Two USB modems .. don't know.

But I never had the urge to go 'dial up' since I have True. ADSL. Never down, sometimes slow but still multiple times better than dial up.

For your email, there's nothing to test for 6 months, as you sign up for a year. Get a cheap hosting account (US$4.95/month) and a domain (eg opalhort.com) and get yourself unlimited high quality email addresses.

[opalhort]

I use the basic true ADSL that you intend getting.

I've only used dialup once since l got ADSL so l just swapped a couple of cables around. Same as what l do when l want to send a fax using the Windows XP fax.

I just tried now connecting with dialup while using ADSL and l got a error message saying "unable to detect a dial tone". Maybe there's a way around it but for me it's easy just to swap the cables.

About the e-mail. not sure l understand why you think you will need to test things for six months. I just use Yahoo! which is web based so anytime l move l still retain the same address. With my Yahoo! account l can download it to Outlook Express so it's easy to manage. I used to have an email account with True when using dialup but l didn't think much of it. Pretty clunky and l could never get the filters to stop spam. I haven't bothered getting a new account since l upgraded to ADSL.

The Thai government has a long list (20,000?) of websites that it would like to stop you viewing. No big deal, just use a proxy to get around that if you need to but it does slow things down a bit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks for your input.

switching cables won't be a problem but probably not required since we have multiple lines (True & TOT). I don't think it is possible to run a ADSL modem on the same line as a dial-up modem!?!?

our e-mail addresses a used for business and our domain registration and servers. making changes to these addresses is a major step and has to be final, hence - the testing period to make sure the ADSL assigned address is working before we make the switch.

Yahoo etc. is not an option for this purpose.

Regards

opalhort

[Firefoxx]

1) Doesn't matter what they say about home networking, there is very little chance you'll get into trouble for sharing in your network. Go ahead and do it, lots of people have done it before, and so far I haven't seen anyone get in trouble for it. It's a stupid rule anyways.

2) ADSL uses a very high frequency to communicate, so even though you use it on the same phone line, you can use it and the phone simultaneously. You can even use a 56k modem and ADSL on the same line at the same time (I've done it). ADSL is "always connected" but you can only use the line for internet if you've logged in. You can't use both at ADSL and 56k one the same computer and be logged in to both at the same time without doing some routing (out of your scope). You can, however, switch between the two, logout of ADSL, connect 56k, disconnect 56k, login ADSL, etc (just clicks, no physical disconnection). Or you can connect one computer to 56k, and the other to ADSL, logged in at the same time.

3) Don't always believe the media. It's somewhat true, in that all http traffic is routed through True's own proxy, and that proxy is censored in cooperation with the Thai authorities.

The speed you get might be good, or it might be bad. Not everyone gets the same experience from True. You can get low speed now, and ask for an upgrade later.

If you require a fixed IP, the normal packages won't give you one. You'll be almost guaranteed to get a new IP every time, and you're forced to disconnect every 24 hours. You might ask for an SME package with fixed IP. It's not that expensive, especially for business use. Consider that a 64k line was around 60,000 baht/month only a few years ago. Another option is to get your own hosting, and put your mail server there. That way you don't need a fixed IP.

Something that's important to your business shouldn't be left to the very questionable True home service.

[opalhort]

First, do not try to save on the package. The 256/128 is of course faster than dial up, but not a lot.

Spent a couple of hundred baht (600) more and get a 2.5mbs. Then you really feel the difference.

Especially if you download (and/or) upload it's essential that you have a really good connection. With 256/128 files like Nasa WorldWind (171 mb) wil still out of reach for you.

I am not sure if you can use a network now. Just ask them. Or look in the conditions (they are in English).

Yes, no problem to connect to both Dial Up and ADSL at the same time. I've tried it before. (I have a serial port 56K modem and a USB ADSL modem). Two USB modems .. don't know.

But I never had the urge to go 'dial up' since I have True. ADSL. Never down, sometimes slow but still multiple times better than dial up.

For your email, there's nothing to test for 6 months, as you sign up for a year. Get a cheap hosting account (US$4.95/month) and a domain (eg opalhort.com) and get yourself unlimited high quality email addresses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks a lot for your info.

for us it would be two USB modems but this should be OK if it works for you on a serial and USB port.

I will have 'the urge to go dial up' from time to time because I'll have to send mails through our SMTP servers at asiaaccess and loxinfo.

Those servers have been very reliable for the past 6 years and I won't like to cut them out unless I can be very sure that the ADSL e-mail servers are just as reliable. Thats why I would like to test 'dial-up' and ADSL at the same time for at least a few months.

We have already a domain and hosting account (www.opalhort.com) with catch all e-mail but all mail goes through our asiaaccess account.

opalhort

[opalhort]

1) Doesn't matter what they say about home networking, there is very little chance you'll get into trouble for sharing in your network.  Go ahead and do it, lots of people have done it before, and so far I haven't seen anyone get in trouble for it.  It's a stupid rule anyways.

2) ADSL uses a very high frequency to communicate, so even though you use it on the same phone line, you can use it and the phone simultaneously.  You can even use a 56k modem and ADSL on the same line at the same time (I've done it).  ADSL is "always connected" but you can only use the line for internet if you've logged in.  You can't use both at ADSL and 56k one the same computer and be logged in to both at the same time without doing some routing (out of your scope).  You can, however, switch between the two, logout of ADSL, connect 56k, disconnect 56k, login ADSL, etc (just clicks, no physical disconnection).  Or you can connect one computer to 56k, and the other to ADSL, logged in at the same time.

3) Don't always believe the media.  It's somewhat true, in that all http traffic is routed through True's own proxy, and that proxy is censored in cooperation with the Thai authorities.

The speed you get might be good, or it might be bad.  Not everyone gets the same experience from True.  You can get low speed now, and ask for an upgrade later.

If you require a fixed IP, the normal packages won't give you one.  You'll be almost guaranteed to get a new IP every time, and you're forced to disconnect every 24 hours.  You might ask for an SME package with fixed IP.  It's not that expensive, especially for business use.  Consider that a 64k line was around 60,000 baht/month only a few years ago.  Another option is to get your own hosting, and put your mail server there.  That way you don't need a fixed IP.

Something that's important to your business shouldn't be left to the very questionable True home service.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Firefoxx,

you have answered all my questions. thank you very much.

one thing that's new to me is the fact that with 'home ADSL connection' you do not get a fixed IP and have to log in / out as required.

I was under the impression that ADSL means fixed IP and always loged in.

Well, either way is no problem for us.

Thanks again

opalhort

[Firefoxx]

Well, most consumer ADSL lines are dynamic IP, but the way it's set up in the US and UK, you'll usually end up getting the same IP after a disconnect. This is not the case in Thailand, and so far, after several years of use, I've yet to get the same IP twice in a row. And AFAIK, there's no 24 hour connection limit in those countries either. This is Thailand, an exotic place, so you can expect exotic service everywhere.

You can be always logged in and connected if you buy a router and set it up that way. It'll still disconnect every 24 hours, but the router will reconnect for you. The IP is another matter, and will change. If you ask for a fixed IP, your account (user/pass) profile will get changed, and you will get a fixed IP through the RADIUS system. You'll pay extra, of course.

The marketing for ADSL is that it's always on, which is true in a sense. You could always say that the TV system is "always on" since the TV stations are always broadcasting. Of course, you don't get to use it unless you turn on your TV and switch to a channel. Same with ADSL, the signal is always there, but it's useless unless you turn on your computer and modem and login.

Edited March 14, 2005 by Firefoxx

[Abandon]

I have run adsl (TRUE) and a pci dial up modem together. I imagine it's not always going to work though.

Why don't you get adsl from loxinfo - then you will not have to change your email. TRUE uses asiaccess so that might be transferable too. Or open a gmail account which will work with anything, has 1 gig storage and 10 meg attachment abilities. (Ask in this forum and someone can send you an invite for gmail) But really you should register your company with a domain name and get 3rd party email so you will never again have to change address, even if you move to the Isle of Mann.

The proxy is not a problem unless you want to go to porn sites. They don't block much, and I have never yet had a problem with that. However many sites that read your IP get confused. Such as Bit torrent sites that monitor your UL/DL ratios - they count everything coming through the proxy as from one person. Another example - my (awful) email provider thinks that all connections from the TRUE proxy are one person, so that everytime I log in to get the email, I open someone elses account. Can see and read their emails too. I always log out afterwards so hopefully the others cannot see mine unless I am actually reading them at the time.

Got to agree with Firefox, get the faster account - I use the 1024/512. Would not consider going slower than that. However going higher probably does not give you much extra, and the max UL capacity is 512 even with the faster accounts.

[sniffdog]

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However going higher probably does not give you much extra, and the max UL capacity is 512 even with the faster accounts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Upload, yes, but I am sure that somebody on a 1024/512 maxes out at 128kB/s,

while my package (2.5/512) maxes out at 267kB/s (both int as local).

I downloaded Nasa Worldwind (171mb) in under 11 minutes.

[aqua4]

Is it any good for VOIP?

[Abandon]

I use skype and occasionally msn for com2com voice and video chat. Eyeball chat is good for video too. Havn't tried it to land lines. There are several threads about this in the last 2 months.

[sniffdog]

Never tried VOIP ... (well, if you consider ICQ Voicechat not VIOP). But ICQ Voicechat works very well between here and the US.

Two way simultaneously possible (but at least one of the parties should be on ADSL).

[Firefoxx]

I've tried Skype (computer to computer) on a 512k home connection, a 2.5M home connection, and a 512k cafe connection (all True ADSL) with people in the US and Europe. With the home connections, it was difficult to establish a connection with the other party. Once a connection was established, there was some skipping and loss of quality. With the cafe connection, there was never a problem, and I was able to do a 4-way conference call with ease, complete with webcam.

[Abandon]

bit ambiguous there firefox - do you mean com2com was ok with skype, but com2home was not - or are you talking about 'home' as in regular service as opposed to the internet cafe service?

Also what program do you use for webcam multi party conference - I use eyeball cha but it only allows 2 webcams, not multi party

[Firefoxx]

Home package vs cafe package. All calls were from here to Europe/US.

I was using Skype for the conference call, but only two people had webcams, which were viewed using MSN messenger.

[bkk_mike]

Is it any good for VOIP?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've got Vonage installed and it works very well. (so far anyway - haven't had it for very long)

It won't work with a USB ADSL connection though as it uses a hardware ATA which needs to be networked to your broadband connection. (which has the upside that the phone works even when the computer is off.)

I also would avoid the really slow packages (256/128) if you want to use VOIP - Vonage says it needs 90kpbs upstream for a phone line, so you'd be cutting it a bit fine... (although upload speed does seem to be less of an issue in Thailand than download speed, where you never get the international bandwidth you're link speed would suggest...)

I'm using what Firefoxx referred to as the cafe connection though... (router says 2176kbps down/512kbps up this month - although it has been faster in the past 2560/640.)

Edited March 16, 2005 by bkk_mike

[bkk_mike]

1)

in the past their ads stated that only one PC can be connected but the latest ads in the BKK Post no longer make any mention of this condition.

we have two PCs on a peer to peer LAN. is this OK now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

- I wouldn't worry about it too much as they're really just trying to stop Internet Cafe's (or whole buildings) sharing a cheap home ADSL connection, although it would make me switch to a router, with a firewall, since you've already got a network. That way both PCs would be on the internet all the time... (But check the security settings on your Peer-to-Peer network, and with always-on internet, you need to make sure your anti-virus is up to date, and probably also have a software firewall on the PCs.)

2)

If I have an ADSL connection will I still be able to connect via dial-up to my regular ISPs?

Do I have to disconnect the ADSL or can I go on-line via dial-up even if ADSL is connected (Win XP)?

This is important during the transition period due to change of e-mail addresses.

I want to test the ADSL for at least 4-6 months before changing our long established e-mail addresses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Depending on who your existing email addresses are with, you might not need to log on. - ie. If they have POP3/IMAP access, you can probably pick up your mail on the ADSL connection, at least until the accounts expire. - i.e. set up Thunderbird or Outlook to go and pick it up every 10 minutes or so. - That's how I pick up my mail from my UK ISP (at least, when I'm not in the UK).

It even gets virus-scanned automatically by AVG.