Should I Move To Chiang Mai?

[chriswatson]

After one year on the beach at Hua Hin we came running back to CMai.

Life ain't an Excel spreadsheet. I 'figured it out' on a spreadsheet at age 55, for just me to age 100. HAH. Twelve years and 3 or 5 countries later, the spreadsheet lied. I changed. So will you, the wife, the kid, the economy, etc. Good luck.

Yeh, I know, but I've got to start somewhere. I'm not the personality type to just up sticks from UK and wing it in a foreign land. I need to have an idea of future costs and income and stick to the required budget every day until the projected figures prove otherwise.

Thanks for the good wishes.

[chriswatson]

Thanks Mitker for your response.

I have to say in the short periods I stayed in Thailand previously, and having lived with one, there are definitely parts of Thai culture/behaviour/mentality I don't like! My plan is, when it gets too much, to take a trip out of the country leaving wife and kid in he safety of their extended family rather than home alone in a different country or dragging them with me until I know the destination is safe and we can re-visit. This is why I wanted to know if Chiang Mai was an aviation hub, which sadly it doesn't seem to be.

I read about property horror stories a lot too. I already purchased land and built property and gifted it to my wife, on the basis that a) it will become my child's one day anyway, I believe if it's always seen to be in the interest of my child to keep it/do something to it, the wife will always agree, c) any manipulation of contracts to ensure I somehow "control" the land would eat away at any trust we have in our marital relationship and d) I could easily afford the costs at the time and the rental income from the property will help us when we get to Thailand. Buying in Chiang Mai, and/or developing more properties on the island land my wife now owns using a significant proportion of my disposable funds, will be an entirely different matter - given my financial circumstances are not as rosy as they were 5 years ago. I understand the tourist market is currently in the dumps from my private conversations with expats on the island, which is why I'm planning on giving any development in this area, plenty of thought.

If I do any work in Thailand I will ensure I get a work permit, I had no idea this was such a serious issue and hadn't investigated it until now because getting work in Thailand is not a reason for me going there, and I have no plans on selling my UK property to subsidize our time/investments in Thailand.

My 45K is based on a pretty simple lifestyle. We eat out at restaurants about once a week in the UK (although I might eat with friends an extra 2 times a week but often this can be expensed), and this is our biggest expense other than normal grocery shopping and bills etc. In Chiang Mai I'd expect to eat at home mostly or street food (which I prefer) and maybe go to a swanky restaurant with family and (new) friends two or three times a week. I'm expecting to stock up with Chang from the local Carrefour and maybe visit the bars (pubs) only a few nights a week, like I do here. If the wife's staying with the in-laws when I'm traveling, I'd expect the costs to be lower, as they all cook at home rather than going out.

[chriswatson]

My advice would be to try and and live in different places for a minimum of three months to see where best suits you. To commit to live in a foreign country that you have spent minimum time in is risky.( That's what I did). If you want to work, BKK is really the only option, unless you can work from your home or want to teach.

I lived in CNX for 17 years and thought I was set for life, but the traffic, smog, piles of garbage on the streets and of course the wangkers finally got to me. I am sure the rose tinted glass wearers in Chiang Mai will deny that it was like that. I moved to Hua Hin which is completly different to CNX but still has problems.

Good advice and I don't intend to commit to anything in the first 12 months, other than a rental agreement, or perhaps an HP for a car.

Unless Chiang Mai seems to me a good place to bring up my child and educate her I guess we'll be back to the UK prior to the British compulsory school age. Am in fact applying for London school enrollment this week, just to keep on the safe side.

I didn't notice the garbage issue when I was there and I'm intrigued about these "wangkers".

How are they defined and how can they "get to you"? Where they live, where do they go, and what do they do?

[Toosetinmyways]

My advice would be to try and and live in different places for a minimum of three months to see where best suits you. To commit to live in a foreign country that you have spent minimum time in is risky.( That's what I did). If you want to work, BKK is really the only option, unless you can work from your home or want to teach.

I lived in CNX for 17 years and thought I was set for life, but the traffic, smog, piles of garbage on the streets and of course the wangkers finally got to me. I am sure the rose tinted glass wearers in Chiang Mai will deny that it was like that. I moved to Hua Hin which is completly different to CNX but still has problems.

Good advice and I don't intend to commit to anything in the first 12 months, other than a rental agreement, or perhaps an HP for a car.

Unless Chiang Mai seems to me a good place to bring up my child and educate her I guess we'll be back to the UK prior to the British compulsory school age. Am in fact applying for London school enrollment this week, just to keep on the safe side.

I didn't notice the garbage issue when I was there and I'm intrigued about these "wangkers".

How are they defined and how can they "get to you"? Where they live, where do they go, and what do they do?

I did not realise you had kids, sorry. Yes give them a UK education. People bitch that the UK education system sucks, but it is miles ahead of Thailand. My son used to bring homework from his Thai school that even as an uneducated plonker like me I could see it was incorrect. International schools way out of my league

The garbage issue was a few years ago now, but it was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I am sure present residents will (land)fill you in.

And then there are the wangkers (rude language not allowed).They are everywhere.

[chriswatson]

Well the "kids issue" is not such a problem for us at this moment in time as it will be in the future. Our child is under both the UK and Thailand's compulsory school age so we can move around for a year or so before things get serious in terms of settling somewhere (either in Thailand or, if necessary, back in the UK). Your advise is therefore still useful for us, and something I'm definitely going to consider. Thamks.

Issue facing us to ensure we're mobile will be finding suitable places in or around Chiang Mai that do not require locking in to long term rents. But given market conditions and from what I've read on on other threads/forums, it does seem possible to get short term rentals, albeit at a more expensive pro rata than an annual one.

[wolf5370]

In CM you can get a pretty n ice place these days for 18K (I have 4 beds, 3baths, maid's room, front and rear garden, fully furnished hse in town for that). New 1.5 cab Vegos are going foe a touch over 500k at the moment (I've seen 2nd hand - 5 yr old ones - going for more!) - but if you want HP on one it'll be in your wife's name - If you put up 25% I think you get very low interest and pay around 5k a month - so, at 20-25k from your 45, leaves 20k for bills, beers and birds (oops, I mean, erm, out of pocket expenses) - it will not be a problem if you are not a fish IMO.

Hi wolf5370, sounds like a real bargain you have with your property. I've been looking on some of the well known Chiang Mai property letting sites and have across nothing as grand as yours sounds for that sort of money.

Don't understand your 45K/month breakdown though. Could you take me through what the "20-25k" consists of? Is this the 18k rental + 5K/month car HP?

And what is a "fish" in this context?

My place is quite nice, but even so everyone keeps telling me its too expensive! Depending how close to the centre of town you want to be (I'm in Amphur Muang) the prices move accordingly. I suggest you try and either get a guest house on a monthly fee (cheaper this way) or a very short term rent and look when you are here - the word of mouth is best here also letting agents always have many more places that are not on their advertised lists - I saw four nice places the same day from the same agent when I chose mine, none were on their website - it seems to me the more pricey and hard to shift ones end up on the net. Trust me, at 18k you will find plenty to choose from here. Oh, by the way it took me only two days to find the place I live now.

My breakdown was from your 45k for living expenses - 18k-20k for rent (middle-to-top end place) plus 5k fore the car - take this from your 45k, leaves you will 20k for food, utilities and everything else.

I was being sardonic - 'to drink like a fish', if you don't then the money should be fine - high-life is expensive anywhere (it wasn't as in a poker fish - but there is that too, newbies will often learn the hard way when it comes to getting ripped off here - just look how many people buy duty free at the airport when its cheaper outside!)

Good luck

[chriswatson]

In CM you can get a pretty n ice place these days for 18K (I have 4 beds, 3baths, maid's room, front and rear garden, fully furnished hse in town for that). New 1.5 cab Vegos are going foe a touch over 500k at the moment (I've seen 2nd hand - 5 yr old ones - going for more!) - but if you want HP on one it'll be in your wife's name - If you put up 25% I think you get very low interest and pay around 5k a month - so, at 20-25k from your 45, leaves 20k for bills, beers and birds (oops, I mean, erm, out of pocket expenses) - it will not be a problem if you are not a fish IMO.

Hi wolf5370, sounds like a real bargain you have with your property. I've been looking on some of the well known Chiang Mai property letting sites and have across nothing as grand as yours sounds for that sort of money.

Don't understand your 45K/month breakdown though. Could you take me through what the "20-25k" consists of? Is this the 18k rental + 5K/month car HP?

And what is a "fish" in this context?

My place is quite nice, but even so everyone keeps telling me its too expensive! Depending how close to the centre of town you want to be (I'm in Amphur Muang) the prices move accordingly. I suggest you try and either get a guest house on a monthly fee (cheaper this way) or a very short term rent and look when you are here - the word of mouth is best here also letting agents always have many more places that are not on their advertised lists - I saw four nice places the same day from the same agent when I chose mine, none were on their website - it seems to me the more pricey and hard to shift ones end up on the net. Trust me, at 18k you will find plenty to choose from here. Oh, by the way it took me only two days to find the place I live now.

My breakdown was from your 45k for living expenses - 18k-20k for rent (middle-to-top end place) plus 5k fore the car - take this from your 45k, leaves you will 20k for food, utilities and everything else.

I was being sardonic - 'to drink like a fish', if you don't then the money should be fine - high-life is expensive anywhere (it wasn't as in a poker fish - but there is that too, newbies will often learn the hard way when it comes to getting ripped off here - just look how many people buy duty free at the airport when its cheaper outside!)

Good luck

Good to know. All the properties I've looked at online so far, that around the 18K mark, just don't seem that attractive. Guest House for a few days it will be then.

Drinking like a fish? Hmm, I'll maybe have to up that 20K a little bit (if we can), but hopefully not too much.

[Thakkar]

Chris,

PB is right, a spreadsheet isn't life, don't rely on it too much and miss the forest for the trees.

Still, you have to start somewhere and a spreadsheet's a good way to get a handle on a fuzzy situation if you're planning long term. BTW I ran my spreadsheet 'only' till age 88. I guess I'm 12% less anal than PB who ran his to age 100

Be sure to underestimate your income and asume a weaker sterling rate. If Sterling doesn't weaken in the long run, you're in luck. If it does, you're prepared.

Don't forget inflation. Inflation is generally higher in developing countries than in developed countries.

Electricity ฿1500

Internet ฿1500

Long distance tel

Gasoline ฿2500 depending on your car, your mileage, literally, will vary.

Av monthly cost of car maintenance and insurance: ฿1500

Cable TV ฿1500

Those very basic expenses already total about 9k. Then of course there's other stuff:

Groceries

Eating out

Entertainment

Maid

Home insurance

Medical insurance

Repairs and maintenance if and when you own your own home

You have a young child - doctor visits

Gym membership

The above would add *at least* another 30k to your Average monthly expenses.

And finally there are these:

Travel

Misc purchases (every month there's going to be something)- clothes, toaster's on the blink, new Tv, etc

Life insurance

So if your budgeting 45k, including rent, you're cutting it a little close, although it's possibly doable. Much better to have a bit of a buffer and not have to constantly count pennies.

Your budget for international school fees is about right, though there are more expensive International schools here as well. School fee inflation has been higher than general inflation. At my kids' school, it's averaged 6% a year over the last 6-7 years.

From what you've written so far, I think you've got your head mostly in the right place. Looks like you'll be OK. Best of luck to you and family.

A short cautionary tale: An acquaintance moved here a few years ago and based his calculations on USD/Baht exchange of 1 to 44 which is what it was at the time. By the time the rate reached 38, he was already back home looking for work while his wife and daughter remained here. His daughter has had to move from International school to Varee English Program to now Sacred Heart to save on fees. It's been though on the little girl—three schools in three years and a father mostly away.

[anonymouse]

Chris,

PB is right, a spreadsheet isn't life, don't rely on it too much and miss the forest for the trees.

Still, you have to start somewhere and a spreadsheet's a good way to get a handle on a fuzzy situation if you're planning long term. BTW I ran my spreadsheet 'only' till age 88. I guess I'm 12% less anal than PB who ran his to age 100

Be sure to underestimate your income and asume a weaker sterling rate. If Sterling doesn't weaken in the long run, you're in luck. If it does, you're prepared.

Don't forget inflation. Inflation is generally higher in developing countries than in developed countries.

Electricity ฿1500

Internet ฿1500

Long distance tel

Gasoline ฿2500 depending on your car, your mileage, literally, will vary.

Av monthly cost of car maintenance and insurance: ฿1500

Cable TV ฿1500

Those very basic expenses already total about 9k. Then of course there's other stuff:

Groceries

Eating out

Entertainment

Maid

Home insurance

Medical insurance

Repairs and maintenance if and when you own your own home

You have a young child - doctor visits

Gym membership

The above would add *at least* another 30k to your Average monthly expenses.

And finally there are these:

Travel

Misc purchases (every month there's going to be something)- clothes, toaster's on the blink, new Tv, etc

Life insurance

So if your budgeting 45k, including rent, you're cutting it a little close, although it's possibly doable. Much better to have a bit of a buffer and not have to constantly count pennies.

Your budget for international school fees is about right, though there are more expensive International schools here as well. School fee inflation has been higher than general inflation. At my kids' school, it's averaged 6% a year over the last 6-7 years.

From what you've written so far, I think you've got your head mostly in the right place. Looks like you'll be OK. Best of luck to you and family.

A short cautionary tale: An acquaintance moved here a few years ago and based his calculations on USD/Baht exchange of 1 to 44 which is what it was at the time. By the time the rate reached 38, he was already back home looking for work while his wife and daughter remained here. His daughter has had to move from International school to Varee English Program to now Sacred Heart to save on fees. It's been though on the little girl—three schools in three years and a father mostly away.

I think Chris said his budget was 45k excluding rent on an earlier post, which I'd say wasn't a bad monthly income.

I'd agree on most of Thakkar's comments though, the financial crisis and the strong baht [against sterling anyway] , has hit a lot of people hard including myself, I'll be returning to the wife and kids after a 6 month stint earning money in the UK in three weeks time, can't wait

[MacWalen]

If you do not mind living far from the ocean the answer is absolutely yes! Fantastic place, good roads, lots of things to do, not expensive, easy life and not so hot.

[NancyL]

I don't see anything in the budget about saving for retirement. Hubby and I saved about 15% of our gross income toward retirement when we were in our prime earning years. That's what is making our current life possible. That spreadsheet should be run out to age 90 with no income forecast after age 55 or so to see if all this still looks possible.

Also, what about the college costs for the child? We didn't have that concern, but I've seen my brother saving at least 10% of his gross income for his kids' college so they don't have make do with state schools, student loans and a grueling schedule of part-time employment like we did. That savings is on top of the approx. 15% he saves for retirement.

[chriswatson]

I don't see anything in the budget about saving for retirement. Hubby and I saved about 15% of our gross income toward retirement when we were in our prime earning years. That's what is making our current life possible. That spreadsheet should be run out to age 90 with no income forecast after age 55 or so to see if all this still looks possible.

Also, what about the college costs for the child? We didn't have that concern, but I've seen my brother saving at least 10% of his gross income for his kids' college so they don't have make do with state schools, student loans and a grueling schedule of part-time employment like we did. That savings is on top of the approx. 15% he saves for retirement.

Yes, I should point out that my cost of living figures I'm working on are based on being paid out from our non-Thai property lets/investment returns which should continue through to retirement and keep up with inflation. I'm working out how much I can save from this income annually so as to subsidize our child's future education costs outside of Thailand (when over 18). I'm not planing on selling any properties or investments outside of Thailand to subsidize our living there.

As already mentioned, just currently thinking about "giving it a go", not moving out and settling down immediately having bought a new house/condo I cannot sell having found out I'm borderline with my income/expenditure.

Thanks for the reminder though, and the figures you suggest.

[chriswatson]

If you do not mind living far from the ocean the answer is absolutely yes! Fantastic place, good roads, lots of things to do, not expensive, easy life and not so hot.

Good to know, though I guess it's always feasible to travel to the coast and all that!

[chriswatson]

Chris,

PB is right, a spreadsheet isn't life, don't rely on it too much and miss the forest for the trees.

Still, you have to start somewhere and a spreadsheet's a good way to get a handle on a fuzzy situation if you're planning long term. BTW I ran my spreadsheet 'only' till age 88. I guess I'm 12% less anal than PB who ran his to age 100

Be sure to underestimate your income and asume a weaker sterling rate. If Sterling doesn't weaken in the long run, you're in luck. If it does, you're prepared.

Don't forget inflation. Inflation is generally higher in developing countries than in developed countries.

Electricity ฿1500

Internet ฿1500

Long distance tel

Gasoline ฿2500 depending on your car, your mileage, literally, will vary.

Av monthly cost of car maintenance and insurance: ฿1500

Cable TV ฿1500

Those very basic expenses already total about 9k. Then of course there's other stuff:

Groceries

Eating out

Entertainment

Maid

Home insurance

Medical insurance

Repairs and maintenance if and when you own your own home

You have a young child - doctor visits

Gym membership

The above would add *at least* another 30k to your Average monthly expenses.

And finally there are these:

Travel

Misc purchases (every month there's going to be something)- clothes, toaster's on the blink, new Tv, etc

Life insurance

So if your budgeting 45k, including rent, you're cutting it a little close, although it's possibly doable. Much better to have a bit of a buffer and not have to constantly count pennies.

Your budget for international school fees is about right, though there are more expensive International schools here as well. School fee inflation has been higher than general inflation. At my kids' school, it's averaged 6% a year over the last 6-7 years.

From what you've written so far, I think you've got your head mostly in the right place. Looks like you'll be OK. Best of luck to you and family.

A short cautionary tale: An acquaintance moved here a few years ago and based his calculations on USD/Baht exchange of 1 to 44 which is what it was at the time. By the time the rate reached 38, he was already back home looking for work while his wife and daughter remained here. His daughter has had to move from International school to Varee English Program to now Sacred Heart to save on fees. It's been though on the little girl—three schools in three years and a father mostly away.

All useful info for me. Many thanks. As Anonymouse states below though, my 45K was excluding rental income and Thai schooling fees. Had no idea these increase so dramatically year on year, which is certainly going into the good ol' Excel.

Your cautionary tale is pertinent, and exactly why I'm thinking about doing it now. My child's below compulsory school age but will be old enough to know if she likes it in Thailand or not. I do not want to drag her in and out of British Education, or get my sums wrong, or both...

[spaceshipcrew]

Chiangmai is the place where you don't wanna be, it´s an urban fungus without a future, only getting worse. Many unfriendly people, nothing of good cityplanning, traffic accidents every 7 minutes (source: traffic police), air quality worse then Bangkok, and it's only about money.

It used to be a nice place about 10 years ago, but 5 years ago it went down very fast and not will come back. Forget Chiangmai if you wanna live a quality life, after all it's much too remote, disconnected from the modern world, better focus on the Chonbury province.

[spaceshipcrew]

If you do not mind living far from the ocean the answer is absolutely yes! Fantastic place, good roads, lots of things to do, not expensive, easy life and not so hot.

My gosh, when have you been in Chiangmai for the last time, but be 12 years ago...

Good roads, hehe if you used to live in Moghadishu yes.

[IanForbes]

Chiangmai is the place where you don't wanna be, it´s an urban fungus without a future, only getting worse. Many unfriendly people, nothing of good cityplanning, traffic accidents every 7 minutes (source: traffic police), air quality worse then Bangkok, and it's only about money.

It used to be a nice place about 10 years ago, but 5 years ago it went down very fast and not will come back. Forget Chiangmai if you wanna live a quality life, after all it's much too remote, disconnected from the modern world, better focus on the Chonbury province.

Why are you still living in Thailand if it's that bad? Chon buri reminds me of a suburb of Pattaya, only dirtier. Nothing is perfect and everyone has different requirements and interests. There is lots to do in Chiang Mai and it's relatively clean compared to many parts of Thailand. There are certainly enough expats and English speaking people to fill the need of anyone who is not a hermit. But hey, some people wouldn't live anywhere else but down town New York or Chicago.

[PeaceBlondie]

Chiangmai is the place where you don't wanna be, it´s an urban fungus without a future, only getting worse. Many unfriendly people, nothing of good cityplanning, traffic accidents every 7 minutes (source: traffic police), air quality worse then Bangkok, and it's only about money.

It used to be a nice place about 10 years ago, but 5 years ago it went down very fast and not will come back. Forget Chiangmai if you wanna live a quality life, after all it's much too remote, disconnected from the modern world, better focus on the Chonbury province.

I rushed back here in 2006 to find better medical care than I found in Bang-cock. Friendly people here, a great road system, air quality better than Sala Daeng; and it's not all about money. Enjoy your very unreal Chonburrry whilst we enjoy very real Chiang Mai.

[BlackArtemis]

I think someone doesn't want more people in Chiang Mai...

BTW Who are all these unfriendly jerks? The other expats? Cause I for one never ran into hordes of unfriendly locals. I disregard this forum since internet personalities fail to accurately reflect real personalities. orrrr you could just avoid said people :shrug:

[Priceless]

Chiangmai is the place where you don't wanna be, it´s an urban fungus without a future, only getting worse. Many unfriendly people, nothing of good cityplanning, traffic accidents every 7 minutes (source: traffic police), air quality worse then Bangkok, and it's only about money.

It used to be a nice place about 10 years ago, but 5 years ago it went down very fast and not will come back. Forget Chiangmai if you wanna live a quality life, after all it's much too remote, disconnected from the modern world, better focus on the Chonbury province.

There's one in every crowd, I guess

Chiang Mai used to be a nice place 10 years ago, it used to 25 years ago as well and it still is. This, however cannot be measured The air quality can, though. The yearly average air pollution (particulate matter, PM<10) for Bangkok (Din Daeng) is 67.7 µg/m³, for Chon Buri it is 55.5 µg/m³ and for Chiang Mai it is 46.6 µg/m³. All the figures are averages for the period 2000-2009, basic data from the Pollution Control Department's website. If you prefer graphic form, here are the seasonal variations for these three areas:

As you can see, Chiang Mai does have a problem in March most years. This has been discussed to death on other threads. For most of the year, though, Chiang Mai is actually one of the least polluted places in Thailand.

/ Priceless

[chriswatson]

So, thanks to all for your input.

I've got some consensus in my own mind at least as to what our initial costs would be and what they could be in the future (esp. with regards to schooling costs and the impact of inflation).

Now I need to think about where to rent. I'm planing to stick to furnished properties with minimum 1-3 month rental contracts where possible, even if these will be more expensive. This is because we want to move around CM to find the most suitable place to settle longer term and because I'm planning to do a bit of travelling outside of Thailand and wife and child can stay with her parents when I am away. These void rental periods for us could even out the premium we pay for monthly contracts in the long run. I'm not planning on buying a 600K 4x4 for at least a year, in case we decide not to stay, and I am therefore budgeting around 36K/month for car rental and 4K for fuel. Sound about right?

I'm planning on staying at a "bustling" area of town first. Does such an area exist and where is it in your opinion? Is it safe and not a Red Light area? I seem to remember Thapae Gate or Moonmuang Road were quite fun with late night restaurants etc.

Is this still the case or are there other places anyone would recommend? My wife has not lived there for a long time now and she thinks things may have changed.

[pjclark1]

My expected expenditure, which is 45K/month living expenses, 15-18K/month rental costs and the purchase of a 600K 4x4, should hopefully be covered by the above. How does this budget sound for those of you already there? Anonymouse seems to think it was about right. For me, I think we can live happily like this, but will not know for sure until we give it a go.

I moved to Chiang Mai in January and was paying 500B a night for an air con hotel with swimming pool.

After 2 months I moved to a guest house at 5500B a month (Fridge, wifi, Cable TV, DVD player)

Now I live in a nice 2 bed house out near Hang Dong (15km out of CM) and pay 7000B a month mortgage.

You can rent a 3 story town house, run a business on ground floor for around 8000B a month.

Or live in a nice out of town 3 bed house for around the same price.

For 12000B pcm you can get an executive 4 bed house fully furnished!

Come out and try a guest house for a month ....... 5500B won't break the bank.

PS

My total monthly budget is 45K, my big expense is sat TV with English movie channels (1500b pcm)

[chriswatson]

My expected expenditure, which is 45K/month living expenses, 15-18K/month rental costs and the purchase of a 600K 4x4, should hopefully be covered by the above. How does this budget sound for those of you already there? Anonymouse seems to think it was about right. For me, I think we can live happily like this, but will not know for sure until we give it a go.

I moved to Chiang Mai in January and was paying 500B a night for an air con hotel with swimming pool.

After 2 months I moved to a guest house at 5500B a month (Fridge, wifi, Cable TV, DVD player)

Now I live in a nice 2 bed house out near Hang Dong (15km out of CM) and pay 7000B a month mortgage.

You can rent a 3 story town house, run a business on ground floor for around 8000B a month.

Or live in a nice out of town 3 bed house for around the same price.

For 12000B pcm you can get an executive 4 bed house fully furnished!

Come out and try a guest house for a month ....... 5500B won't break the bank.

PS

My total monthly budget is 45K, my big expense is sat TV with English movie channels (1500b pcm)

Sounds like you've done well. Decent 3 story town house for around 8K? Somewhere clean and safe for a wife and child too? In what area?

Could you post or PM me the agencies you used to get these properties, or did you do it entirely by word of mouth etc?

Cheers

[pjclark1]

My pal has just moved into a town house in the centre Meunmung soy 3 at 8000bht a month (1 year contract) he intends to turn the ground floor into a coffee shop/internet cafe.

Another friend pays 6000bht a month for the same outside the moat, in the silver market area near ChiangMai gate, but he had to paint the place as it was very scruffy. Now he uses the ground floor as a coffee bar.

All done by word of mouth I'm afraid, use an agency and expect to pay 50% more.

Best way is to move into a guest house or hotel for a month and put out the word to the bar owners and girls in soy 2.

The accommodation quickly comes to you!

I do know one agent called Ben, nice lady with quite good English, but seemed to be a bit pricey for me, had many properties just out of town for about 8000bht to 12000bht (2 bed to 4 bed)

[Fishenough]

A year ago did what your thinking about; started out renting a nice large 2 bedroom furnished apartment for 16,000B near Kad Suan Kaew Mall with pool (lots of fun for our son) and 16th floor views of Doh Suthep. 6 months later found a nice double lot with 3 bedrooms, 4 baths for 8000 B 10 mins from the moat - but recommend with your plan you'll plenty of time to negotiate rental amounts. Prices vary and there is plenty of moving room if your willing to ask.

Had the same idea for a truck, but bought a used truck and a couple of new motorbikes....stuck the rest in the bank......

[chriswatson]

A year ago did what your thinking about; started out renting a nice large 2 bedroom furnished apartment for 16,000B near Kad Suan Kaew Mall with pool (lots of fun for our son) and 16th floor views of Doh Suthep. 6 months later found a nice double lot with 3 bedrooms, 4 baths for 8000 B 10 mins from the moat - but recommend with your plan you'll plenty of time to negotiate rental amounts. Prices vary and there is plenty of moving room if your willing to ask.

Had the same idea for a truck, but bought a used truck and a couple of new motorbikes....stuck the rest in the bank......

A-ha.

Care to give me an idea on price of new truck plus bikes - so I can get an idea? PM if you don't mind.

Thanks.

[chriswatson]

My pal has just moved into a town house in the centre Meunmung soy 3 at 8000bht a month (1 year contract) he intends to turn the ground floor into a coffee shop/internet cafe.

Another friend pays 6000bht a month for the same outside the moat, in the silver market area near ChiangMai gate, but he had to paint the place as it was very scruffy. Now he uses the ground floor as a coffee bar.

All done by word of mouth I'm afraid, use an agency and expect to pay 50% more.

Best way is to move into a guest house or hotel for a month and put out the word to the bar owners and girls in soy 2.

The accommodation quickly comes to you!

I do know one agent called Ben, nice lady with quite good English, but seemed to be a bit pricey for me, had many properties just out of town for about 8000bht to 12000bht (2 bed to 4 bed)

Thanks for the info and PM.

[pjclark1]

A year ago did what your thinking about; started out renting a nice large 2 bedroom furnished apartment for 16,000B near Kad Suan Kaew Mall with pool (lots of fun for our son) and 16th floor views of Doh Suthep. 6 months later found a nice double lot with 3 bedrooms, 4 baths for 8000 B 10 mins from the moat - but recommend with your plan you'll plenty of time to negotiate rental amounts. Prices vary and there is plenty of moving room if your willing to ask.

Had the same idea for a truck, but bought a used truck and a couple of new motorbikes....stuck the rest in the bank......

Fishenough is bang on with his pricing 12k is more than enough for a nice place out her.

Check out the photos of a property I posted on this thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Good-Houses-...ai-t297925.html

Read some of the replies to me trying to be helpful, as an example of an answer to one of your previous posts.

The tops upfront security cost is 3 months rental, but I wouldn't pay it. A one year contract period does seem reasonable though.

Agents can charge huge fees, ON TOP of the rental price is quite common when they see a white face.

(so a 12k asking rental may be offered to you for 15k or even 18k)

Be careful there are lots of people making money marketing to whites at inflated prices.

PS

When I asked the price on the 12K house, they promptly offered me 1/2 the first months rental if I could introduce someone to them. Every relationship in Thailand is based on money and kickbacks ..... that's just the way it is.

Somone else posted a list of running costs, most about 2x what a careful person would pay.

For example my costs.

Rent on 2 bed/2 shower house in the country (20 banana trees + 15 mango trees) 7000bht

2nd hand Suzuke step through m/c with electric start 7500bht, running costs 200bht a week

Insurance/Tax (compulsory 400bht/year) Safety test 100bht/year

Electricity (I don't use my air con hardly ever that hot, just fans) 450bht/month

Water 3bht/square meter ....... 35bht a month

Sat TV (True) 1500bht/month

Nursery School for 2 year old (9-4) 1000bht/month +600bht for the school to collect drop off every day per month

Dinner in a pricey bar/restaurant aimed at ferang ......... 85bht (pat prik geng gai + kow suay + saparot pan )

Same meal in a Thai place, 45bht

Steak dinner at Riverside with 2 drinks (live band) 400 bht

Edited September 21, 2009 by pjclark1

[chriswatson]

A year ago did what your thinking about; started out renting a nice large 2 bedroom furnished apartment for 16,000B near Kad Suan Kaew Mall with pool (lots of fun for our son) and 16th floor views of Doh Suthep. 6 months later found a nice double lot with 3 bedrooms, 4 baths for 8000 B 10 mins from the moat - but recommend with your plan you'll plenty of time to negotiate rental amounts. Prices vary and there is plenty of moving room if your willing to ask.

Had the same idea for a truck, but bought a used truck and a couple of new motorbikes....stuck the rest in the bank......

Fishenough is bang on with his pricing 12k is more than enough for a nice place out her.

Check out the photos of a property I posted on this thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Good-Houses-...ai-t297925.html

Read some of the replies to me trying to be helpful, as an example of an answer to one of your previous posts.

The tops upfront security cost is 3 months rental, but I wouldn't pay it. A one year contract period does seem reasonable though.

Agents can charge huge fees, ON TOP of the rental price is quite common when they see a white face.

(so a 12k asking rental may be offered to you for 15k or even 18k)

Be careful there are lots of people making money marketing to whites at inflated prices.

PS

When I asked the price on the 12K house, they promptly offered me 1/2 the first months rental if I could introduce someone to them. Every relationship in Thailand is based on money and kickbacks ..... that's just the way it is.

Somone else posted a list of running costs, most about 2x what a careful person would pay.

For example my costs.

Rent on 2 bed/2 shower house in the country (20 banana trees + 15 mango trees) 7000bht

2nd hand Suzuke step through m/c with electric start 7500bht, running costs 200bht a week

Insurance/Tax (compulsory 400bht/year) Safety test 100bht/year

Electricity (I don't use my air con hardly ever that hot, just fans) 450bht/month

Water 3bht/square meter ....... 35bht a month

Sat TV (True) 1500bht/month

Nursery School for 2 year old (9-4) 1000bht/month +600bht for the school to collect drop off every day per month

Dinner in a pricey bar/restaurant aimed at ferang ......... 85bht (pat prik geng gai + kow suay + saparot pan )

Same meal in a Thai place, 45bht

Steak dinner at Riverside with 2 drinks (live band) 400 bht

Thanks for the info and links pjclark1. By all accounts, it appears it's entirely a buyer's market. Makes me wonder if we should ever consider buying a house here, certainly not for the next 5 years and until I'm sure I'm happy with my child's education. It sounds an absolute nightmare to offload one if one needs to. Maybe building/buying a cheap place that matches the cost of rental would make sense, though I'd guess it'd have to be way out of town to get the price down, but renting seems the way forward for the foreseeable. I also hear you on the agents.

Your day to day costs make interesting reading. Seems my family should be OK. What are you doing about education further down the line? Having read some of the posts on the forum, the views seem to be pretty polarized. International schools are strongly recommended by those that can afford it, but I understand you only get real value if you part with about 500K a year. Plus I understand the education is all in English so no Thai is learnt - which I consider a massive disadvantage.

A Thai woman and her daughter who are friends of ours and live in London strongly favour Thai private education over "international", and this seems to have cost her around 150K a year. She sent her daughter to private bi-lingual school before she came over to the UK (and her daughter currently goes to a UK comprehensive but will return to Thai private bi-lingual) and the mother herself was educated at a Thai private bi-lingual school and not at an international. She's currently in the final year of her Phd and speaks near-perfect English, so private Thai schools can't be that bad! She's from BKK though. Can the standard of education be so radically different between two cities?

Oddly though, she couldn't imagine us living in an 8-15K rented property and thinks we should be looking at a min. of 20K, so there's no 100% consensus on anything. She just returned to London having spent 2 weeks in Chiang Mai as part of her Aston University (UK) research for her Phd. She really loved it, and hadn't really been there before, which was another good sign!

[PeaceBlondie]

Prem might cost 500K/year. Others less. Check websites