Going Back To Thailand After Living In Usa Illegally

[kingscliff]

In an ideal world everyone would be free to live and work where ever they wanted. One of the greatest crimes of humanity is the creation of nation states. We are all humans born to this planet yet we restrict the movement, freedom, health and welfare of our fellow humans based on 'nationality'!

Back on topic, why did your parents (Dad MBA working in a bank and mum a Professor) leave Thailand to go wash dishes in the States? Doesnt make sense as they would be lviing a comfortable and good life in Thailand with lots of oppurtunites and possibility of getting a post in the banks overseas office in the US.

Edited January 29, 2010 by kingscliff

[Jingthing]

The only proviso that I would add is it is not cheap. But then again you will obtain a green card and eventual U.S. citizenship; consider it an investment over the course of your life.

Some of us including myself may be curious about what you mean by not cheap. If you are OK with it, a rough range of the dollar figure for that would be interesting to hear. A lot of us from the US know people in the US with US immigration issues, so it is not only about the OP.

[ryukn]

In an ideal world everyone would be free to live and work where ever they wanted. One of the greatest crimes of humanity is the creation of nation states. We are all humans born to this planet yet we restrict the movement, freedom, health and welfare of our fellow humans based on 'nationality'!

Back on topic, why did your parents (Dad MBA working in a bank and mum a Professor) leave Thailand to go wash dishes in the States? Doesnt make sense as they would be lviing a comfortable and good life in Thailand with lots of oppurtunites and possibility of getting a post in the banks overseas office in the US.

I don't know exactly either, but I believe it was because they wanted a better life for my brother and I. Clearly there were misconceptions and misinformation. My mother had sisters already living in the US, and I assume that they had a plan for getting all this to work. They helped us first when we arrived in the US by giving us a place to stay, but eventually we found our own place to rent and our own jobs, and kind of just lived our own lives.

I often ask my dad why he chose to do this, and I can sense deep regret from his side. My father has no family in the US. His siblings and parents are all in Thailand, and he was not able to see them for over 15 years. I truly believe that this whole scenario was my mother's plan and that she somehow convinced my father by promising a better life for my brother and I.

Fast forward 15 years and they are divorced, and you know the rest of the situation.

Just an update:

I've been speaking with submaniac over e-mail and it seems we found a way for me to attain permanent residence via the PERM process. He wasn't kidding when he said it isn't cheap, but I'll let him post the details here if he wishes. I am glad I found this forum and the members here, because I was not aware that this option was even available. I've talked to two different lawyers and they never mentioned it. So I will be doing some research on this process and continue to work with submaniac... and I guess I will post my findings here.

Edited January 29, 2010 by ryukn

[walterego]

It would seem if you get perm residency, or move to Aus/NZ or canada (way better than the USA anyhow.) That your parents acheived their goals.

Hats off to your Mahr and Poohr chan mai! (and hats off to you of course bro:)

[Jingthing]

I've been speaking with submaniac over e-mail and it seems we found a way for me to attain permanent residence via the PERM process.

Good luck Ryukn, I wish you well. I recently read each American today represents a half a million dollars in federal debt; so maybe your student loans and legal costs won't seem so high now. Anyway, good luck.

[nakachalet]

finally, at long last, i see.... there is something good coming out of thaivisa members....

i am overwhelmingly impressed with everyone....

this is something like one in a half million occurence.... <did i get it wrong again?> LOL

bravo and congrat everyone....

[PeaceBlondie]

finally, at long last, i see.... there is something good coming out of thaivisa members....

i am overwhelmingly impressed with everyone....

this is something like one in a half million occurence.... <did i get it wrong again?> LOL

bravo and congrat everyone....

C'mon, our members offer helpful advice every day. And here I'd thought submaniac was only a motorcyclist.

[nakachalet]

finally, at long last, i see.... there is something good coming out of thaivisa members....

i am overwhelmingly impressed with everyone....

this is something like one in a half million occurence.... <did i get it wrong again?> LOL

bravo and congrat everyone....

C'mon, our members offer helpful advice every day. And here I'd thought submaniac was only a motorcyclist.

oh, that.... a shiny BMW owner no doubt.... LOL

Edited January 30, 2010 by nakachalet

[lopburi3]

One off-topic post removed.

[asiawatcher]

This is not what you are going to want to Hear.

1) Running from your financial promises to the government of the USA that has provided for you.

Yes, I AM A TAX PAYER. I hope immigration deals with you

2) Running from your Thai Military duties.

I just suggest you keep running,this is what you do best .

3) If you are low on funds now,Thailand is going to be tough with no Thai language skills.

Get a Lawyer in the same great country who has paid for your education and take

your shots like a man. You are not 6 anymore.

Running will tire you and you will never have roots.

The older you get the more this situation will effect your future plans,where ever you decide to go.

Sometimes the hardest thing to do is the best.

Good luck.

Where is your support system that has been in place until now?

There are allot of things missing from this thread.

The only thing missing is his bank details and an outright request for funds! All that is here is - "I don't have the financial means..." and so on - looks to me like someone is wanting a hand out from a sucker.

[Jingthing]

The only thing missing is his bank details and an outright request for funds! All that is here is - "I don't have the financial means..." and so on - looks to me like someone is wanting a hand out from a sucker.

Oh, please. Not everyone is a scheming liar in the world. There is cynical and then there is black hearted. If I was rich, I would send him the money for the lawyer myself after verifying some details. Yes I know, talk is cheap, I am not at all rich.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Jingthing

[ThailandTommy]

I do believe that the US will eventually pass the DREAM act, just because there are so many people like me living here, and the government wants to keep us. I know that president Obama supports the bill, but this bill has been shot down before in the past. There are many opponents who argue that it rewards illegal immigrants with amnesty and would encourage more illegal immigration. Also, America has so many problems right now that have greater priority over immigration reform (health care, economy, education, the war, environmental issues, etc.)

unfortunately holding out for this bill to pass won't be an option for me. I've lived as an illegal alien for over fifteen years and made the best of it, but enough is enough. Sometimes I just feel like a criminal on the loose here. I do not have the financial resources to stay in the US let alone to pursue further education. I'll go anywhere where I can work

I feel for you, as you did not put yourself in this situation, first things first, you cannot have an American passport, and the Thai passport that you travelled on 15 years ago would have expired!

How do you propose to leave the US? I agree with the attorney for you to travel anywhere (except Laos, Cambodia and Mayamar) you are going to have to apply for a visa to visit the country of your choice! For that you will need a passport.

Are your parents still in the US (living together) do you have regular contact with them (my guess is because you can't work, you are still living at home?)

The minute you drop on the radar the for mum and dad? Where would that leave them? Can't see them being too thrilled about picking rice after 15 years! Come to think of it I can't see you being too happy with the wages you could command in Thailand given your qualifications?

They must have worked during the 15 years to support you and themselves? I am not suggesting letting your education go to waste but at 21 you have time on your side to sit it out for this DREAM act to come into force?

Sit it out or throw yourself at the mercy of US Immigration!

I wish you luck

[crocodilexp]

Regarding the military duty, would I be unable to work or immigrate out of Thailand until it is served? how does this work? and are there any options for me to bypass this?

Regarding the military duty, it's best to talk to your Thai contacts or relatives, and they will point you in the right direction. Conscription is mandatory, and decided by a draw (lottery) -- I think about 20% of the men serve. As everything in Thailand, unless you're dirt-poor the system is very flexible and there are options to get discharged (some unofficial, so better not to discuss them here). Middle-class guys rarely serve in the military from what I can tell, and opting out is rather common.

[Chris Lawrence]

This is not what you are going to want to Hear.

1) Running from your financial promises to the government of the USA that has provided for you.

Yes, I AM A TAX PAYER. I hope immigration deals with you

2) Running from your Thai Military duties.

I just suggest you keep running,this is what you do best .

3) If you are low on funds now,Thailand is going to be tough with no Thai language skills.

Get a Lawyer in the same great country who has paid for your education and take

your shots like a man. You are not 6 anymore.

Running will tire you and you will never have roots.

The older you get the more this situation will effect your future plans,where ever you decide to go.

Sometimes the hardest thing to do is the best.

Good luck.

Where is your support system that has been in place until now?

There are allot of things missing from this thread.

These are some wise words; why don't you want to serve in the military? Its not like Thailand will go to war? It might give you what others should have; a sense of purpose and being. If not just go back and pay the fee to get out of it; you appear very good at avoiding some responsibility.

[Jingthing]

The guy grew up in the USA feeling like he is American but with a legal problem. What American boy wants to serve in the Thai military? Such a person if he is forced to repatriate to Thailand will have a huge adjustment problem being seen as really Thai, and for all we know he is horrible at languages like most Americans and will never be fluent in Thai.

[Jingthing]

I agree. He is not asking for money. He has been honest about his bleak financial situation because that is one part of the entire picture. That is all. In my view, there is nothing about the OP's story that doesn't ring true.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Jingthing

[thaigold]

Suggestions:

• Marry an American (stay guaranteed).
  
• Join U.S. military. (get citinzenship).
  
• Hire a top flight immigration attorney, and find out your true legal standing.
  

Good Luck

[Jingthing]

Join U.S. military. (get citinzenship).

The US military option does NOT exist for this guy. Read the thread, repeated many times.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Jingthing

[tripplejjj]

Ryukn,

1. I believe that you do not have a Social Security Number (SSN). You probably have a Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN). A TIN is used in place of an SSN for tax purposes only. (You already know this.)

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/intern...d=96696,00.html

2. Don’t dream of immigrating to other countries and expecting NOT to serve in the military. Serving in the military is an honorable obligation.

3. I may be wrong on this, but marriage to a US citizen will still get you deported because you have broken the immigration laws. (You are an illegal immigrant living in the US.) Marriage to a US citizen is not a “RIGHT” to the US citizenship or residency.

IF I am in your shoes, this is what I would do. I would finish my education and be a contributing member of the society. As far as I know, if you return to Thailand and you qualified to serve in the military and you don’t want to, then your situation has just gotten worse. If you want to return to Thailand and don’t want to serve in the military, then you might want to gain some serious weight or somehow get medically disqualified. This way, you are back in Thailand to work and live as a Thai citizen. You can use this time to plan on getting a citizenship in other countries. You would be like a farang with a Thai passport.

[Jingthing]

Some realism here. The guy doesn't want to go to Thailand. He knows he may be forced to go to Thailand. He doesn't want to serve in the Thai military, he wants to know how to avoid that. That is a similar sentiment to many Thais in Thailand. He never said or even implied that if he is forced to go back to Thailand and he has no choice but to serve, that he would not serve. Why should he make up stories that he WANTS that when he doesn't, which is perfectly normal and understandable. I think it would actually be very bizarre for a virtually American person like him to want to serve here, actually.

Put yourself in his shoes. Say you grew up in France speaking French and a tiny bit of Amharic (Ethiopian) and you felt quite French. You reached 21 and the forces of the law were pushing you out of your home of France (and your friends and family) to Ethiopia where you may be forced to join the army there along with native Ethiopians. You would be certifiable to relish that thought.

Just because YOU might love to be in his shoes, living in Thailand with a Thai passport and no visa problems, doesn't mean he feels that way. Clearly, he doesn't.

To repeat, people like the OP did not create this problem. This is a clear case of the sins of the father being visited upon the son. That is what the Dream Act is about and based on Obama's recent big speech with not one mention of immigration issues, I'd say its probably going to be a dream deferred even longer.

One other point. It is not a polite one. I truly wonder whether some of the more negative comments are from people who are thinking about this as a RACE issue. He is an Asian with Thai parents, he probably LOOKS very Thai racially. Well, he must belong in Thailand then. Clearly, someone who grew up in the USA striving for legality who took the trouble to get a higher education best belongs in the multicultural wonderland of the USA. He is probably already fully accepted as American by everyone he meets there (except for INS agents). Here, this guy who doesn't really speak Thai, sure he would be legal here, but accepted as a Thai, that would take years.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Jingthing

[jb5music]

Go back to Thailand? And be a Thai citizen but can't speak Thai?

I don't think you would want that.

Work under the table like the millions of Mexicans in California.

You can't go anywhere without a passport.

What do you use for ID? Can't have a bank account

CA ID or passport. You can't march into immigration

They'd deport you and you'd have to wait around a couple of years

in The federal lock up before they fill the plane.

Dude - don't tell anyone - The only saving grace is

safety in numbers. USA I think is the best place to

be an illegal but hardest place to visit legitimately.

[Jingthing]

The last I heard illegal immigrants in the US commonly have bank accounts, even buy houses. The banks are not obligated to share info with the INS. All the possible choices are painful. This tactic of the lawyer is probably the best, but raising the moolah is his problem, something we can ALL relate to.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Jingthing

[MUYTHAI]

are there opportunities for someone like me to work with an American company with offices in Thailand, where my lack of knowledge of the Thai language would not be much of an issue?

BTW, some info about the Dream Act. What are they waiting for to pass it?

http://www.dreamact2009.com/

Have you heard anything about the chance it will pass in 2010? If I were you, I think I would be tempted to stay under the radar for at least another year to see if it passes.

What they are "waiting for" JINGTHING is the fact that the majority of US citizens (even naturalized) are pissed off about illegal aliens in the USA and do not want an amnesty program. Bush senior gave amnesty to all the illegals in the USA and all it did was create a vacuum that was filled up with new illegal aliens after the program ended. I live in California and have illegal alien friends and have had illegal alien co-workers. I do not support illegal aliens in any way...even though they might be good people.

I had a Vietnamese girlfriend who had to wait 6 years to get into the USA legally. She and her family were booted out of Vietnam in the late 90's because her father fought with the south and with the US. Her father spent 6 1/2 years in a Vietnamese prison after the US cut and ran. They lived in refugee camps in Cambodia and Thailand while they waited for US citizenship...legally. She has nightmares about Pol Pot chasing her. All illegals need to get the out of the USA. Wait your turn legally instead of cutting in line and coming in illegally. It is the OPs parent's fault not his. Sorry, I have no passion for his family or any other illegals many of whom sponge off the US taxpayer. There are many people from all over the world who are truely being persecuted, tortured, and killed and deserve to be in the US more that others who just come in illegally for a "better" life and higher pay. The USA has some of the most lax immigration laws and enforcement of all countries. That is why the US is flooded with illegals and all the problems associated with them...like hospitals going bankrupt and having to close, high housing costs, etc. I don't blame the OP. The parents are to blame.

OP...go to Thailand and enjoy life there. There are millions of people who wish they could become Thai citizens or residents. People from all over the world are trying to get into Thailand to live, but cannot. The OP should just go to Thailand and enjoy it like the foreigners do. Be a man and join the Thai army... or become a ladyboy and try to opt out. You will have no probelm fitting into the Thai society. Learn the language like farangs do. Your parents came to a foreign land (US) and did not speak the local language. Why can't you do the same? The Thai women are beautiful...what are you waiting for OP? You could find a job easily in Thailand and be living in a paradise with a beautiful Thai woman...if you choose. Sorry if a Thai job might not pay USA CEO income.

Edited January 31, 2010 by thaiphoon
Line spacing adjusted

[eggomaniac]

ryukn

may i ask you a few questions pls?

1--if you are an undoc alien, how do you secure loan--you have no valid soc sec number?

2--how could you filter through college(s), when you have to present valid soc sec card or even birth certificate and such at registration?

3--when you obtained your driver license, what sort of doc did you show them, pls?

i have several other questions but they may not be of any interest to most thaivisa readers, so i'll refrain from asking.

thx for enlightening us.

Do you have a Thai Birth Certificate? you don't have a passport, right?

Your parents have worked in the USA for over a decade and to the chagrin of Lamebow and Dudds, 100's of thousands are working in the USA 'illegally'. You could do the same, or start a company helping people with their pc's.

work under the table!

oh,,, If you do end up in Thailand, the military may be your best, not worst, option.

With your education, computer skill, and English; you might be able to negotiate to be a Training Officer.

[samran]

ryukn

may i ask you a few questions pls?

1--if you are an undoc alien, how do you secure loan--you have no valid soc sec number?

2--how could you filter through college(s), when you have to present valid soc sec card or even birth certificate and such at registration?

3--when you obtained your driver license, what sort of doc did you show them, pls?

i have several other questions but they may not be of any interest to most thaivisa readers, so i'll refrain from asking.

thx for enlightening us.

Do you have a Thai Birth Certificate? you don't have a passport, right?

Your parents have worked in the USA for over a decade and to the chagrin of Lamebow and Dudds, 100's of thousands are working in the USA 'illegally'. You could do the same, or start a company helping people with their pc's.

work under the table!

oh,,, If you do end up in Thailand, the military may be your best, not worst, option.

With your education, computer skill, and English; you might be able to negotiate to be a Training Officer.

For the princely salary of 2000 baht per month and he'd probably have to slip the right people some money to get that job to begin with. Odds are, without thai language skills, he'd be rejected at the draft.

I just don't think somehow that those 'encouraging' him to go for military service in Thailand actually know what they are talking about.

[DickFarang]

In the story of the poor boy/girl there is something that sounds extremely implausible:

Why did his/her parents, who both had very nice jobs in Thailand, a bank employee with an MBA degree and a professor, choose to overstay and to continue to overstay and to work illegally as dishwashers ?

[Jingthing]

What they are "waiting for" JINGTHING is the fact that the majority of US citizens (even naturalized) are pissed off about illegal aliens in the USA and do not want an amnesty program.

The Dream Act is very limited to people exactly like the OP. It is narrow. A general amnesty program is wide.

[Jingthing]

In the story of the poor boy/girl there is something that sounds extremely implausible:

Why did his/her parents, who both had very nice jobs in Thailand, a bank employee with an MBA degree and a professor, choose to overstay and to continue to overstay and to work illegally as dishwashers ?

It sounds normal to me. Growing up my Mom worked with immigrants like this (mostly legal). Almost everyday she had stories about former doctors and former mayors and former judges now mowing lawns for a living in America, if they were lucky.

. The OP should just go to Thailand and enjoy it like the foreigners do.

He doesn't want to. Why should he if he has any hope left to do what he wants to do? Its his life.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Jingthing

[hpwheelman]

I think the OP is a special case. He didn't make the move when he was a boy to get into this situation. It happened to him. Naturally he would feel more American than Thai. I am not surprised a person like that wouldn't be jumping cartwheels about doing Thai military service. Most Thai young men aren't into it either, why should he be? As far as his loans, I am sure if he was able to become US legal he would be in the same boat as any other student with such debt. He would hassled by creditors about it for the rest of his life and if he was able, he would be as likely to pay it as anyone else. Have some compassion please for someone in a very painful situation which he did not create. Getting a college education under these conditions is very admirable. I think it is a shame for the US to throw out a productive, hard working person like that who is already a fully adjusted American but without documents.

Bottom line, he didn't come here for moral lectures, he asked for suggestions and advise. I doubt we can help him much, but the impulse to diss him seems to be very distasteful.

BTW, someone like the OP could probably enlist in the US army and gain citizenship that way. That would involve almost definitely fighting in Afghanistan. That's a hard choice, clearly not for everyone.

Thank you for your compassion. You are right, I did not choose to break the law and overstay my visa... this whole situation was out of my hands and I have tried to make the best of it. The US realizes that there are many people like me in the country right now... young educated adults with no criminal history. And of course they do not want to throw us out... but because we are here illegally, there is much debate over how to handle it. Like many others, the country is split in half on this issue. I think racism plays a big role... many people associate illegals with Mexicans.

You mentioned that not all thai men have to enlist in the military. Would you happen to know the details on this? I have some extended family back in Thailand... I will be contacting them to see if they can find out for me. I'm also going to contact the thai consulate here in the US.

As for enlisting in the US Military... that is not possible. They CURRENTLY accept only permanent residents and citizens.

About that (speaking as a former service member) you can apply from overseas locations I believe. And if you don't not want to be a grunt, you can join the navy or air force. With your education, you would be able to get a good position to gain more knowledge and experience and you could get fast tracked to citizenship. I was in the navy, and went through boot camp with a Nigerian and Chinese and neither of them were citizens. I am speaking of the enlisted side though. You would have to do at least 2 years active duty I believe, but its not all as bad as most think it is. As far as getting caught in the US or going to the Thai embassy and leaving that way, if your going to do that, and ruin your chances of coming back to the country you leave, why not sneak into and get deported from a different country. Mexico, or Canada for instance. If your from my home state, as I think you are, you know getting into Mexico isn't that hard if you want it, and getting into Canada from the US is easy. If you do end up back here in Thailand, you can teach English. Sounds simple but as a native speaker, you can earn 50,000 a month (Thai baht) or more doing stuff like teaching accents to rich kids or basically baby sitting 5 year olds and letting them watch movies all day in English. 50,000 baht (roughly 1,500 USD) is decent living over here and a good starting point for saving money if you really want to pay back the money. But I would suggest service for you as the best way to get citizenship and make good money, while also using benefits to pay your school loans. Dig deeper in that if you can, or at least get friendly with a recruiter. They can sometimes make things happen, if you keep pestering them about it. I think anyone who actually bust their backside like you seem to have done to do as much as you have should get a break in this case, as opposed to those who well, do the opposite and expect a free hand out.

[Jingthing]

I was in the navy, and went through boot camp with a Nigerian and Chinese and neither of them were citizens.

The military does not allow illegal immigrants to enlist, and that policy would not change, officers said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/us/15immig.html