What Happens When We Die?

[churchill]

A fellow at New York City's Weill Cornell Medical Center, Dr. Sam Parnia is one of the world's leading experts on the scientific study of death. Last week Parnia and his colleagues at the Human Consciousness Project announced their first major undertaking: a 3-year exploration of the biology behind "out-of-body" experiences. The study, known as AWARE (AWAreness during REsuscitation), involves the collaboration of 25 major medical centers through Europe, Canada and the U.S. and will examine some 1,500 survivors of cardiac arrest. TIME spoke with Parnia about the project's origins, its skeptics and the difference between the mind and the brain.

What sort of methods will this project use to try and verify people's claims of "near-death" experience?

When your heart stops beating, there is no blood getting to your brain. And so what happens is that within about 10 sec., brain activity ceases —as you would imagine. Yet paradoxically, 10% or 20% of people who are then brought back to life from that period, which may be a few minutes or over an hour, will report having consciousness. So the key thing here is, Are these real, or is it some sort of illusion? So the only way to tell is to have pictures only visible from the ceiling and nowhere else, because they claim they can see everything from the ceiling. So if we then get a series of 200 or 300 people who all were clinically dead, and yet they're able to come back and tell us what we were doing and were able see those pictures, that confirms consciousness really was continuing even though the brain wasn't functioning.

How does this project relate to society's perception of death?

People commonly perceive death as being a moment — you're either dead or you're alive. And that's a social definition we have. But the clinical definition we use is when the heart stops beating, the lungs stop working, and as a consequence the brain itself stops working. When doctors shine a light into someone's pupil, it's to demonstrate that there is no reflex present. The eye reflex is mediated by the brain stem, and that's the area that keeps us alive; if that doesn't work, then that means that the brain itself isn't working. At that point, I'll call a nurse into the room so I can certify that this patient is dead. Fifty years ago, people couldn't survive after that.

How is technology challenging the perception that death is a moment?

Nowadays, we have technology that's improved so that we can bring people back to life. In fact, there are drugs being developed right now — who knows if they'll ever make it to the market — that may actually slow down the process of brain-cell injury and death. Imagine you fast-forward to 10 years down the line; and you've given a patient, whose heart has just stopped, this amazing drug; and actually what it does is, it slows everything down so that the things that would've happened over an hour, now happen over two days. As medicine progresses, we will end up with lots and lots of ethical questions.

But what is happening to the individual at that time? What's really going on? Because there is a lack of blood flow, the cells go into a kind of a frenzy to keep themselves alive. And within about 5 min. or so they start to damage or change. After an hour or so the damage is so great that even if we restart the heart again and pump blood, the person can no longer be viable, because the cells have just been changed too much. And then the cells continue to change so that within a couple of days the body actually decomposes. So it's not a moment; it's a process that actually begins when the heart stops and culminates in the complete loss of the body, the decompositions of all the cells. However, ultimately what matters is, What's going on to a person's mind? What happens to the human mind and consciousness during death? Does that cease immediately as soon as the heart stops? Does it cease activity within the first 2 sec., the first 2 min.? Because we know that cells are continuously changing at that time. Does it stop after 10 min., after half an hour, after an hour? And at this point we don't know.

What was your first interview like with someone who had reported an out-of-body experience?

Eye-opening and very humbling. Because what you see is that, first of all, they are completely genuine people who are not looking for any kind of fame or attention. In many cases they haven't even told anybody else about it because they're afraid of what people will think of them. I have about 500 or so cases of people that I've interviewed since I first started out more than 10 years ago. It's the consistency of the experiences, the reality of what they were describing. I managed to speak to doctors and nurses who had been present who said these patients had told them exactly what had happened, and they couldn't explain it. I actually documented a few of those in my book What Happens When We Die because I wanted people to get both angles —not just the patients' side but also the doctors' side — and see how it feels for the doctors to have a patient come back and tell them what was going on. There was a cardiologist that I spoke with who said he hasn't told anyone else about it because he has no explanation for how this patient could have been able to describe in detail what he had said and done. He was so freaked out by it that he just decided not to think about it anymore.

Why do you think there is such resistance to studies like yours?

Because we're pushing through the boundaries of science, working against assumptions and perceptions that have been fixed. A lot of people hold this idea that, well, when you die, you die; that's it. Death is a moment — you know you're either dead or alive. All these things are not scientifically valid, but they're social perceptions. If you look back at the end of the 19th century, physicists at that time had been working with Newtonian laws of motion, and they really felt they had all the answers to everything that was out there in the universe. When we look at the world around us, Newtonian physics is perfectly sufficient. It explains most things that we deal with. But then it was discovered that actually when you look at motion at really small levels — beyond the level of the atoms — Newton's laws no longer apply. A new physics was needed, hence, we eventually ended up with quantum physics. It caused a lot of controversy — even Einstein himself didn't believe in it.

Now, if you look at the mind, consciousness, and the brain, the assumption that the mind and brain are the same thing is fine for most circumstances, because in 99% of circumstances we can't separate the mind and brain; they work at the exactly the same time. But then there are certain extreme examples, like when the brain shuts down, that we see that this assumption may no longer seem to hold true. So a new science is needed in the same way that we had to have a new quantum physics. The CERN particle accelerator may take us back to our roots. It may take us back to the first moments after the Big Bang, the very beginning. With our study, for the first time, we have the technology and the means to be able to investigate this. To see what happens at the end for us. Does something continue?

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,...l#ixzz0eH3SkMcM

also Is There Such a Thing as Life After Death?

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,...ter-asia-weekly

[Godolphin]

Fascinating post Winston.

I think it's a subject with a lot of taboo around it because not many people want to die even if they realise it is inevitable.

The part of the article about the mind/brain was particularly interesting.

I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but do note that modern science is getting closer to saying what ancient eastern philosophies have been saying for centuries: that the body is a manifestation of the mind, brain included, and, that all minds are connected to a universal mind/energy.

[MHM]

Yes very interesting, perhaps more than anything else. I wonder how the research reflects upon Buddhists (Thais). Are they arrested in reincarnation? Are their experiences similar?

[SeanMoran]

There is more to us than flesh and blood. Heaven looks like an overcast day in the forests of Montana. Thailand is an efficientg place to go through the whole rigmarole because we can come back again with a whole new flesh and blood, but I reckon we still come back with that same mind we died with. Listen to your conscience - some things are eternal.

Norn laab faan dee khap.

[dumball]

Does anyone recall that old English song "On Ilkly moor bar tat " , tells what happens quite explicitly , quite simple and to the point , used to sing it along with "I belong to Glasgee " when on a piss up for some squady leaving the army .

[BAYBOY]

I have had an interesting experience, one which my family and a few close friends know about.

Back in 1987 I came to THailand for a holiday with my then girlfriend. We stayed at Club Med in Phuket. All I wanted to do was relax, rest and enjoy the pool. We formed a group with some other guests and all of us, except me, took part in all the varied sport activities. However one day I went in a swimming race, won the heat and won the final. Simple... just a 25 meter dash. Afterwards felt buggered and spent the next couple of days sleeping more than usual, and moaning about a pain in my left arm.

Three days after the race I was walking to dinner and sort of collapsed on the footpath on the way Aware of what was happening but felt I could not walk another step. Nurse summoned,and was rushed into a hospital in Phuket town. Checks done, and nothing found but had to stay over night. Woke about 1am, and rushed into the toilet, vomitting badly. After was put back to bed, Doctors and Nurses every where.Hooked up to a monitor and had various drugs injected. My pulse rate was dropping and got into the low 20s and I thought "this is it" said goodbye to the GF. All this time no pain at all just a pleasent feeling of dropping off and not panic thinking, in fact joking about being young and dying.Aged 43.

The Doctors and the GF went out of the room and talked about what to do next. They had one last drug available and if it did not work they would have to transfer me to another Hospital in Phuket, 10 minutes away. However they had no life support in the ambulance and shifting me could increase the risk of death. She said to do what was best in their opinion and we would accept their judgement.They gave me the injection and within seconds it seemed, I started to perk up and the heart rate rose. An hour later I was back to normal in heart rate and felt great and wanted to sleep.

Next morning The GF came to see me and I related how close it had been during the night and how the Doctors where down to their last drug etc. She asked how I knew that and had a Doctor spoken to me about it. "No" I said...... They had had the conversation outside the room, behind a closed door and I could not have over heard it. The Doctors came in and told "No, they had not seen me since last night and had not spoken to me about anything.

In my mind I could see and hear what went on in that "talk" yet I was in the next room. Also I could describe where they all stood and how there was a Nurse at the desk beside where they talked. And I was in the next room.!!!!!Two days later ,leaving the room for the first time sice the drama, I showed the GF and the Doctors where they each had stood during their talk, and where the nurse had been sitting,( actually she was asleep in front of the monitor).

One Doctor told me to read as much as I could about Buddhism as that may help me understand what the mind/ soul/ spirit was doing at that time. So that began the interest and the love that I developed for Thailand, which thankfully led me to my Thai wife, and now we live here. Perhaps because I was re-born here.

It is as clear in my mind now, as when it happened nearly 22 years ago. I feel my mind/spirit/soul left my body for the period of that "talk" in the next room. Did I die and come back to life again? I really don't know. Have never been back to Phuket either.

BAYBOY

[wobblyjohn]

Does anyone recall that old English song "On Ilkly moor bar tat " , tells what happens quite explicitly , quite simple and to the point , used to sing it along with "I belong to Glasgee " when on a piss up for some squady leaving the army .

Ilkley Moor is famous for many reasons, not least the celebrated Yorkshire folk song 'On Ilkla Moor Baht 'at' - translated from local Yorkshire dialect as 'On Ilkley Moor Without a Hat'. The Ilkley Moor Bar Tat is said to have been written by a Halifax-based Church choir during a visit to the area and dates back to the mid-1800s.

Set to the tune of the hymn 'Cranbrook', the song asks where the subject has been since the protagonist of the lyrics last saw them on Ilkley Moor without a hat, and goes on to reproach the person for their lack of protection from the bitter cold of the Moors.

[eurasianthai]

Does anybody really believe anything happen besides getting back to star dust?

And if anybody does, why?

[wobblyjohn]

I forgot to mention Khow nar phet is off the menu as of now

[surayu]

Does anybody really believe anything happen besides getting back to star dust?

And if anybody does, why?

well it seems that we are still at a very early stage, still in the darkess, we don't know what this "life" really is or what is made of, no tools that can actually tell us of what "element" life is made of, so is not really easy to talk about the unknow, we can just make assumptions and hope, bit by bit, to get the whole picture one day, surely this story is inspiring and a little help getting us toward the answer.....i mean a scientific answer.

[elcent]

[JSixpack]

This scientific article shows that out-of-body experiences are simply neurological malfunctions:

http://fwd4.me/ix

So the answer to the question is, you die. Period.

[IMA_FARANG]

This scientific article shows that out-of-body experiences are simply neurological malfunctions:

http://fwd4.me/ix

So the answer to the question is, you die. Period.

Perhaps....but let me tell you what happened when my mother died...quite a few years ago now. My mother died in 1967...of a massive stroke. She was dead before th ambulance arrived. I was in the U.S. army, stationed in Vietnam at the time. I was notified of my mother's death...and they made arrangements to send me on emergency leave back to the U.S. for her funeral.

I was waiting at Tan Son Nhut airport in Saigon...I had to wait overnight to get a flight. It was about 6 in the morning. I had dozed off, and I woke up...I saw people moving around the airport. I was still dazed and not fully awake. I clearly saw my mother, her head and shoulders only, looking down at me. She was crying. I said,"Mom, it will be alright." I don't know why I said that. She smiled at me. I had the distinct impresion she was asking me about a Vietnamese girl I was involved with at the time. I had never told my mother about this girl, so she could not have known the girl's name. She asked me about the girl, using her name. I said I thought I loved this girl, and my mother replied that she wanted me to be happy.Then she said she had to go, but that she would always be watching me, and she said goodbye. Then she faded away...and I saw all the people moving about the airport again clearly. I realised that I had been seeing them all the time when I was looking at my mother passing behind her image. I wasn't asleep, but I had been groggy having just woken up when I was talking to my mother. At that time she would have been dead for about 3 days.

I don't know what happened then, but that is exactly what I saw and heard.

Edited March 2, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[Gary A]

The human mind is capable of many things. The after death experiences and communicating with the dead are often talked about. I have seem myself the people talking in tongues in various churches. In my opinion, a person can convince themselves that these experiences are actually real. My personal opinion is that when you are dead, you are dead. Perhaps dreams get confused with reality.

[phetaroi]

Does anybody really believe anything happen besides getting back to star dust?

And if anybody does, why?

This doesn't exactly answer your question, but I'll tell you a spooky, but totally true story. Let me begin with a sentence of background. My father was a veteran of the army, and then air force of about 18 years. He was extremely proud of his military service.

One day I got a call from my cousin who said, "You'd better come up again (to NY state from Virginia) for your last visit with you dad." Of course I did. He was in a veteran's hospital, which was quite good (to my surprise); the level of care was great, and the level of caring was even greater. I was able to be there for about 3 full days that last visit. The morning before I left for Virginia to get back to work I planned to visit dad from about 10 a.m. until 1 p.m., and then do the 7 hour drive back home. His doctor happened to stop by when I was there and we went outside and I asked how long dad left. He said that it was difficult to tell...maybe 3-10 days. Dad was quite agitated that my plan was to stay until 1 p.m. He said I needed to get started right away because "the boys" were waiting for him. "What boys?" "The airmen. Where the hel_l are they? I guess they stepped out when you came in. They've been here all night and are waiting for you to get home before they take me." Okay I think...ranting. But, so agitated that I thought it best to do as he wished. So instead of staying till 1, I stayed an hour and at 11 said my goodbyes. "Remember, they'll take me when you arrive home."

I arrived home at exactly 6:05 p.m. At 6:15 the phone rang. Dad had died. Remembering what he said, I asked the time of death. It took them a minute to locate the info. 6:08.

There are lots of things in life that are mere coincidences. I have trouble believing this is one of them.

Yes, I know:

[phetaroi]

So the answer to the question is, you die. Period.

It must be so nice to be the only living man in the universe who has all the answers.

[toptuan]

Yes very interesting, perhaps more than anything else. I wonder how the research reflects upon Buddhists (Thais). Are they arrested in reincarnation? Are their experiences similar?

Don't know about Buddhism, but the OP's information about the study directly correlates to the Bible's teaching on the eternal soul. Consciousness after death. The body being only the "house" or "temple" that houses the "real you." According to it's teaching, 10,000 years from now, the "real you" will be somewhere, conscious and self-aware.

Having spent some time in the ministry several decades back, I've been at the bedside of numerous individuals who slipped over into the afterlife. Some of them were people of faith, and some were not. However, most of them showed evidence of a transition (not a sudden break from this life), which correlated directly to the descriptions in the Bible of human consciousness after death. The numerous experiences strengthened my own faith in the teachings of the Christian scriptures about this subject.